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What if Houston doesn’t return to the Colts?


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51 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I dont think they should force it in the draft, but there were free agents that i think are better than what we have now.

 

11-5 wasn't bad, but they beat some weak teams last year and struggled getting to the QB against afc playoff teams.  Its hard to close out good teams like the bills and steelers when we have no pass rush

Without a pass rush, KC is almost insurmountable

 

With a little more pass rush in Buffalo..... just 1 or 2 more hurries in that game.... we win

 

I 100% agree on not forcing it

 

If we dont trade out of 21, and Paye is there .... you take Paye

 

If not, take the best OT on the board.

 

Get DE in round 2 (Maybe trade up to get the DE on our board)

 

Looking at the draft I think there are some decent DEs that could be in a rotation this year that might be had in 2nd round

 

Turner, Basham, Weaver, Tryon, or Odeyingbo, are ones that come to mind

 

 

 

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I don't think it changes the colts draft board. I still see them going pass rush first. There is a lot more depth in the oline in this draft.

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On 4/20/2021 at 2:41 PM, Four2itus said:

The lack of acknowledgement or support of "development" on this board is astounding. 

 I think its pretty bold of them to be counting on guys like Turay or Banagu at one of the most important positions on the team.  

 

At some point its fair to question if they just are not the guys rather than say they need to develop year after year 

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8 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

 I think its pretty bold of them to be counting on guys like Turay or Banagu at one of the most important positions on the team.  

 

At some point its fair to question if they just are not the guys rather than say they need to develop year after year 

 

Year after year?

 

This will be Turay's 4th year, and his ankle injury wiped out the better part of two seasons.

 

This will be Banogu's 3rd year,  and he was decent his first year,  and Covid wiped out his 2nd year.

 

The staff is not being stubborn.    The fan base is being impatient.    It's not like you haven't heard or read the story Ballard tells about the Colts trading away Jerry Hughes a year too soon before.     They both get this year to show what they have and then we'll have a better idea of where each player stands.

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3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

This will be Turay's 4th year, and his ankle injury wiped out the better part of two seasons.

4th and final year?  how long would you give him, his contract is up after this?

 

Banogu has shown next to nothing. I stand by saying its bold to count on these guys.  I'll be surprised if either earns a second contract

 

They were probably both over drafted in the first place

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3 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

4th and final year?  how long would you give him, his contract is up after this?

 

Banogu has shown next to nothing. I stand by saying its bold to count on these guys.  I'll be surprised if either earns a second contract

 

They were probably both over drafted in the first place

 

How long would I give Turay?    It all depends on what he shows this year.    And he WILL get this year, even though you've already grown bored with your 2018 toy.    You want something newer and shiny!   

 

As for Banogu,  he's only been on the team two years.   He needed a non-Covid type season in 2020.   He didn't get it.  He needs more coaching than any other DL we have.    But he's got skills.   So, odds are, he'll get 2021 to show improvement.   If he doesn't show enough by September,  that's when he'd be cut.    But I wouldn't count on it, or expect it.

 

As for being over drafted.    Maybe.    Maybe not.    If you think you're sharper than the GM who was just called the best drafting GM in the NFL,  knock your socks off!     Go right ahead....

 

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8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

And he WILL get this year

I know he will.  We don't have anyone to take his place, and his cap hit is small.  I do like his work ethic and potential, but it needs to materialize now

 

Sorry but I do see a potential problem in counting on guys who have done little(turay) or nothing(ben) to step up and play one of the most important positions on the defense.  

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4 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I know he will.  We don't have anyone to take his place, and his cap hit is small.  I do like his work ethic and potential, but it needs to materialize now

 

Sorry but I do see a potential problem in counting on guys who have done little(turay) or nothing(ben) to step up and play one of the most important positions on the defense.  

 

At this point...    as of today....    I don't think either is being forecast to start.    I think the hope is Lewis will start at LDE.  I think he'd be the first to try to replace Autry. 

 

I think both Turay and BB would be expected to play situationally.   Perhaps 15-25 snaps a game at the start of the season.  More if they earn it.

 

If your next question is who would start on the other side at RDE....   Id say we'd like Houston...  or maybe Kerrigan, or some other veteran we can acquire.    That player will play roughly 50-60 percent of the snaps at that spot,  with Turay and/or BB stepping in in select spots.

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4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 Id say we'd like Houston...  or maybe Kerrigan,

I wouldn't be complaining like this if they were here.  They aren't though

 

I guess you expect us to stop complaining based on moves that may not even happen. 

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8 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I wouldn't be complaining like this if they were here.  They aren't though

 

I guess you expect us to stop complaining based on moves that may not even happen. 

 

You can complain all you want.

 

I'm just trying to point out the flaws in certain perspectives.   Guys can't show much if they're hurt.   Guys can't show much if they lose a season to Covid.   

 

If you think YOU'RE frustrated,  imagine how they feel?   All you're doing is being a fan.   Nothing wrong with that.    But that's why Ballard tells the story about giving up on Jerry Hughes a year too early.   To remind people what can happen.    He doesn't want that to happen on his watch.   If those guys are going to bust,  he's going to make sure he's given them every opportunity to succeed.   

 

A good GM is patient.   Even when the fans are not.    Ballard is a very good GM.

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40 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

why is that confusing?  You think free agents that we didn't sign are the answer lol

 

 

 

You said it yourself....    You're complaining because guys like Houston or Kerrigan or someone else aren't here.  

 

Today is April 21st.    We can sign guys any time we think it's right to do so.    Houston we can sign the moment we can strike a deal,  there are no restrictions due to the calendar and draft pick compensation like their would for other team's DE's.    So, those guys we can sign (I think) sometime in May, (Later?)  when signing some other teams FA doesn't count against the draft pick compensation formula.    So, there's lots of time.    We don't play this weekend.   Pre-season starts in August.   The regular season starts in September.     There's still plenty of time.    

 

If I didn't trust this front office,  perhaps I'd be more concerned.    But I trust this front office completely,  so I sit back and watch how it all plays out.   Besides the draft,  we're going to make a number of other moves.   I look forward to seeing what they are.

 

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I personally still have high hopes for Turay

 

If he can stay healthy, he may be the long term answer at RDE. If you watch his last 2-3 games, he was getting movement into the backfield.

 

At LDE is where I see a need for someone to add to the rotation for this year

 

Idealy, this guy would be in the 265 to 275 range and have equal ability against pass and rush.  

 

I dont see a 240 lb guy being able to man this LDE position .... they will get pushed all over the place on run downs

Many teams run heavily over the right tackle and right guard

 

As mentioned there are some decent prospects that should be available in round 2 if we dont go DE in round 1.

 

Paye seems like a perfect fit for this defense at LDE...... great against the run, 4.5 speed ..... The pass rush will come

 

He is a little short, but great explosion numbers, and strong as an ox.

 

I hope he is there at 21

 

As Turay is going to be a free agent after this year (I hope he develops, stays healthy, and stays), and this position is so important to the teams success, I would also go after a candidate for RDE, in a mid rounds.  There are a few players that are too light that still need some time to develop, and gain some NFL muscle

 

We will see in a week

 

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On 4/20/2021 at 10:20 AM, WentzinRome said:

 I would be surprised if Houston wasn't re-signed as the Colts pretty much need him and he might not get more money elsewhere.  There may not be a player that can make an immediate impact at 21 at the Edge position.  Plus the depth of OT would be the wiser move at 21, since you are more likely to get a better quality player at OT.

 

 I can't see the Colts starting the season with Lewis, Turay(if he can even stay healthy), Banogu, Muhammed, and possibly Rochell, without seriously considering the need for Houston's experience.

The opposite is the consensus, where you refer to positional depth.  The dropoff in OT talent from #21 to #54 isn't huge.... The dropoff in talent at DE from #21 to #54 is close to precipitous..... Many scenarios in which they go DE at 21 if they decide to keep the pick.

 

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Hopefully Turay can show something this year if we don't re-sign Houston. I've been a big fan of his but time might be against him after this season. Injuries have ravished him.

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I think CB and Company are going to draft multiple defensive lineman this draft, like 3 of them to help shore up the pass rush. Plus internally I'm sure they are hoping for growth from Lewis, Turay and Banogu.

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If Kwity Paye is there at 21, IMHO, it's a no brainer.  You grab him and know that not only did you fill a position of need but, you grabbed the highest rated player on the board.  Meaning:  You stayed true to your board and took BPA.  Paye is a top 10 player in the draft and his passion to succeed based on his journey and overcoming is what will make him an All-Pro.  

 

If Paye isn't there, I agree with @MikeCurtis, you take the best tackle on the board, unless there are none left with first round grades.  In that event, you stay true and take PBA.

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5 minutes ago, joecolts said:

If Kwity Paye is there at 21, IMHO, it's a no brainer.  You grab him and know that not only did you fill a position of need but, you grabbed the highest rated player on the board.  Meaning:  You stayed true to your board and took BPA.  Paye is a top 10 player in the draft and his passion to succeed based on his journey and overcoming is what will make him an All-Pro.  

 

If Paye isn't there, I agree with @MikeCurtis, you take the best tackle on the board, unless there are none left with first round grades.  In that event, you stay true and take PBA.

I agree, but I don't think Paye will be there at 21.  

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Wouldnt be the first time weve played with young and rookie edge rushers. Just sit back and see what Ballard does. Im sure theyve thought this through. Theres more good edge rush candidates in this draft that fit our scheme than you think. Could be better but its not horrible. I think our O may do enough this year to aid the young D.

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4 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I personally still have high hopes for Turay

 

If he can stay healthy, he may be the long term answer at RDE. If you watch his last 2-3 games, he was getting movement into the backfield.

 

At LDE is where I see a need for someone to add to the rotation for this year

 

Idealy, this guy would be in the 265 to 275 range and have equal ability against pass and rush.  

 

I dont see a 240 lb guy being able to man this LDE position .... they will get pushed all over the place on run downs

Many teams run heavily over the right tackle and right guard

 

As mentioned there are some decent prospects that should be available in round 2 if we dont go DE in round 1.

 

Paye seems like a perfect fit for this defense at LDE...... great against the run, 4.5 speed ..... The pass rush will come

 

He is a little short, but great explosion numbers, and strong as an ox.

 

I hope he is there at 21

 

As Turay is going to be a free agent after this year (I hope he develops, stays healthy, and stays), and this position is so important to the teams success, I would also go after a candidate for RDE, in a mid rounds.  There are a few players that are too light that still need some time to develop, and gain some NFL muscle

 

We will see in a week

 

I think that LDE you want is on the team right now, in one form or another.    
 

I think the top candidate at LDE is Tyquan Lewis.   I think he gets the first look. 
 

And, maybe I’m crazy, but I think Rochelle might be the second candidate to get looks there.   Rochelle might get looks at other spots as well, but LDE might be the first spot where he gets looks. 
 

These choices may disappoint you.   I could easily be wrong.   But this is my hunch as of 4/22/21. 
 

 

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4 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

The opposite is the consensus, where you refer to positional depth.  The dropoff in OT talent from #21 to #54 isn't huge.... The dropoff in talent at DE from #21 to #54 is close to precipitous..... Many scenarios in which they go DE at 21 if they decide to keep the pick.

 

 I am a little confused?  So you are advocating a less talented edge at 21 than more talented OT?  Or am I just reading this incorrectly?  Because I believe the difference in OT quality and Edge quality at 21 clearly favors the OT.

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think that LDE you want is on the team right now, in one form or another.    
 

I think the top candidate at LDE is Tyquan Lewis.   I think he gets the first look. 
 

And, maybe I’m crazy, but I think Rochelle might be the second candidate to get looks there.   Rochelle might get looks at other spots as well, but LDE might be the first spot where he gets looks. 
 

These choices may disappoint you.   I could easily be wrong.   But this is my hunch as of 4/22/21. 
 

 

You may end up being right, but I hope that we add some talent here

 

As a HUGE Ohio State fan....  I WANT Lewis to step up....  He seemed to improve a bit, but, in my opinion there needs to be a talent influx on the DE

 

I have a recurring nightmare of Patrick M........ getting 30 seconds to throw...

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On 4/20/2021 at 2:35 AM, Hoose said:

There are a few national writers who have speculated that Justin Houston will sign elsewhere either during or just after the draft. A fair question if that happens is: what are the Colts’ remaining options? 
1. Sign someone like Melvin Ingram or Ryan Kerrigan. Not very good options, but I’d take Ingram. 

2. Draft at least one DE early. This is the best and most obvious option, but after the second round, the pickings are going to be slim. So it will have to be a Day 1 or early Day 2 pick. 
3. Roll with what you’ve got. Ugly option to even think about. 

Conclusion: At this point, the Colts’ pass rush is seriously hurting if Houston isn’t resigned. Ballard of course knows this. Here’s hoping there’s a breakthrough in negotiations pre-draft, because signing Houston gives the team flexibility in the draft.  If the Colts allow Houston to sign elsewhere, given that this is a weak DE draft class, the Colts are putting themselves in a position where they HAVE to get a top DE early. And that could have them reaching Day 1 to make sure they do. To avoid that, give Houston a sweetener in the offer and get him signed!

I certainly understand the Ingram intrigue but I'd have to go with Kerrigan here. His body has a lot more left in the tank than Ingram and his body is as healthy as can be due to Washington's dominant young d-line. Kerrigan could certainly give us 1-2 years of above average play! 

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1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

You may end up being right, but I hope that we add some talent here

 

As a HUGE Ohio State fan....  I WANT Lewis to step up....  He seemed to improve a bit, but, in my opinion there needs to be a talent influx on the DE

 

I have a recurring nightmare of Patrick M........ getting 30 seconds to throw...

I’m with you,  MIke!   Even being a big admirer of tOSU program.    I also want us to draft another DE as well.    We need to take more swings, take more bites out of the DE apple.  
 

We need to find more pass rush. 

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A draft tidbit from Zak Keefer today.  Ballard has conducted 4 drafts as our GM.  In those 4 years he has made 10 picks in the 2nd rd and 2 picks in the 1st rd. Those 1st rd picks being Nelson and Hooker who is no longer on the team.  Interesting facts that reinforces the feel a trade is being worked on with our 1st pick. 

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1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

A draft tidbit from Zak Keefer today.  Ballard has conducted 4 drafts as our GM.  In those 4 years he has made 10 picks in the 2nd rd and 2 picks in the 1st rd. Those 1st rd picks being Nelson and Hooker who is no longer on the team.  Interesting facts that reinforces the feel a trade is being worked on with our 1st pick. 

 

I'm sure he'd love to turn 2 early picks into 3 early picks, just not sure it will be in the cards this year. And just not sure we can afford to move back given our 2 biggest needs. Also on my mind is the likely lack of a first rounder next year, so the pressure to hit on needs this draft is even more critical. I'd love for us to find some desperate team like in the past willing to do a lopsided trade though.

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On 4/22/2021 at 10:27 AM, pgt_rob said:

Hopefully Turay can show something this year if we don't re-sign Houston. I've been a big fan of his but time might be against him after this season. Injuries have ravished him.

Ravished?  :spit:

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On 4/22/2021 at 5:25 PM, richard pallo said:

A draft tidbit from Zak Keefer today.  Ballard has conducted 4 drafts as our GM.  In those 4 years he has made 10 picks in the 2nd rd and 2 picks in the 1st rd. Those 1st rd picks being Nelson and Hooker who is no longer on the team.  Interesting facts that reinforces the feel a trade is being worked on with our 1st pick. 

Worth mentioning he traded back the year he got Nelson too.

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I'm sort of relieved that we found about about turay's latest surgery. Maybe false hope, but at least he had a reason for looking like he did when he came back. Maybe now we see the real Turay back. Hope so anyway. 

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1 hour ago, cbear said:

I'm sort of relieved that we found about about turay's latest surgery. Maybe false hope, but at least he had a reason for looking like he did when he came back. Maybe now we see the real Turay back. Hope so anyway. 

After the season ended Turay had pictures of him on instsgram in the hospital.  But your right at least we know he had a excuse.

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Just now, TheNextGM said:

I’m guessing Paye, Phillips or Oweh fall to 21 and become a Colt!

Yeah if they have one of them graded as elite I think we will go DE if one is there. Just depends on how they have the tackles graded.

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On 4/22/2021 at 8:46 AM, MikeCurtis said:

I personally still have high hopes for Turay

 

If he can stay healthy, he may be the long term answer at RDE. If you watch his last 2-3 games, he was getting movement into the backfield.

 

At LDE is where I see a need for someone to add to the rotation for this year

 

Idealy, this guy would be in the 265 to 275 range and have equal ability against pass and rush.  

 

I dont see a 240 lb guy being able to man this LDE position .... they will get pushed all over the place on run downs

Many teams run heavily over the right tackle and right guard

 

As mentioned there are some decent prospects that should be available in round 2 if we dont go DE in round 1.

 

Paye seems like a perfect fit for this defense at LDE...... great against the run, 4.5 speed ..... The pass rush will come

 

He is a little short, but great explosion numbers, and strong as an ox.

 

I hope he is there at 21

 

As Turay is going to be a free agent after this year (I hope he develops, stays healthy, and stays), and this position is so important to the teams success, I would also go after a candidate for RDE, in a mid rounds.  There are a few players that are too light that still need some time to develop, and gain some NFL muscle

 

We will see in a week

 

 

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