Audio Of Greg Williams Asking For Injuries

[21isSuperman]

I'd say a lot of it is "normal" football talk about getting into players' heads, but he clearly takes it beyond that - especially with the promise of money for an injury.

I agree. In an interview with Deion Sanders, talking about his upcoming playoff game against the Colts, Ray Lewis was asked how the Ravens could pressure Peyton without being exposed on the backend. Ray's response was something like "Easy. Just get to him early and often and you'll slow that offense down. Get to the head, the body's gotta fall". In that sense, it's clear what he means. He doesn't mean he wants to concuss anyone or hit them in the head, but he is going after the metaphorical head of the offense. In Williams' thing, he literally means hit them in the head

[21isSuperman]

Pathetic, Disgusting, and Criminal. Clearly no explantion excuses this.

Agree 10000%.

Sean Payton/Mickey Loomis: "But but but we weren't aware of any bounty scandal....alright, well, we told him not to make sure anyone gets hurt..."

Williams: "I admit there was a bounty"...Darren Sharper's response: "There never was a bounty"

I've lost a lot of respect for a number of people throughout this bounty ordeal and the Saints have gained a black mark on their franchise in the eyes of many

[David Wagner]

Ok, you're right, I absolutely know nothing about football...

Now, I'm going to try to be as nice as I can, because I don't want a suspension. STOP protecting your team and stop protecting that psycho that you called a coach. I honestly don't care if that's what he meant or not; how can I take you seriously, when you said the stuff he said was all metaphorical. He wanted to hurt Frank Gore, that was his intention.

You're on my ignore list now. :wave:

I am a colts fan and my second team is the packers. I wonder how colts fans will change when they finally have an aggressive, attacking all out physical defense which the new DC runs. I will be glad to see linebackers like the ravens have to rip peoples heads off. it is to bad bob sanders is not our safety now. he was the only player on soft core dungy defense who would come up and put a lick on people. football is a violent game played by people who enjoy violence. nothing finer then knocking the living crap out of *, arrogant running back or wr. the nfl has done its best to legislate big hits from the game but they will continue to fail because they know people like big hits. remember the playoff game where the steelers beat the living daylight out of manning. the whole colts line fell a part. it was a travesty how unprepared soft to the core tony was. the colts pass protection was obliterated because they tried to man block 4 weak blitzes. it was not until th 4th quarter they finally figured out they need to check release to dissuade the steelers from blitzing.

[David Wagner]

Look dude, don't say "HE WAS SPEAKING IN METAPHORS!!" and then say "OK well he wasn't metaphorical ALL the time..."

You're making yourself look bad.

there were clearly times where he was speaking in metaphors and there were times when he was not. take the acl statement. it was both.. it was take him out if you can but if you cannot hit him hard to see if he wants to play with the ACL injury.

[chad72]

the whole colts line fell a part. it was a travesty how unprepared soft to the core tony was.

That was on Howard Mudd and Peyton Manning, the failure to pick up the blitzes consistently. Lilja was being owned by Joey Porter and they never made the adjustment till late into the 4th qtr.

The unprepared aspect of Dungy's team was the rusty D to start with, that put us in a hole 0-14, right off the bat and literally took us out of the run game that made our offense balanced the entire year. The O being rusty did not help either. But that is a different discussion, unrelated to this thread.

[pacolts56]

Well, one can split hairs about metaphors all day long..... but Gregg Williams may have "metaphored" his way to a lifetime ban from the NFL. And I look forward to Goodell's punishment of the thug players involved. The intent was clear and unmistakeable.

There is, after all, the pesky little detail of cash rewards involved to reinforce his thinly-veiled "metaphors". And after hearing this weasel's so-called pep talk, he just gave Goodell bulletproof justification to throw him out for good.... which I hope Goodell does. And I'd be delighted to see Williams run into one of the targeted players who's health and livelihood he completely disregarded... and come out the other side of the encounter in the fetal position himself.

Anyway, now we hear that the Saints lawyers are throwing Williams under the bus as a "rogue" coach and appealing to the commissioner to roll back the organizational punishment that Goodell rightly clobbered them with.

While I have no problem at all with the image of Gregg Williams under a bus, or a train, Roger Goodell is a lawyer and I doubt that he's gonna buy that cheesy and gutless line of PR crap from the Saints liars..... I mean lawyers.... who are trying to get them lighter punishment. I certainly hope Goodell doesn't buy it because from all the available information, it was clear by his initial findings that neither Mickey Loomis or Sean Payton did a thing to restrain Williams' stunning arrogance or the thug culture that is evidenced in these tapes.... and which took place well after the team was made aware of the investigation and warned to stop their conduct.

Appeals are for situations with mitigating circumstances.... and Williams' "metaphors" don't quite fit the bill, and he should be permanently thrown out of the NFL for all this.

And just like I didn't believe Darren Sharper's absolutely ridiculous denials.... IMO, Drew Brees' claim that he never knew anything about this stuff and that he needed an explanation from Goodell was probably a steaming pile of bull crap as well. This was a culture driven by a DC with a long established reputation for it. Maybe golden boy Brees oughta just shut his pie hole and be thankful an opponent didn't snap his knees in retaliation.

I know coaches get teams whipped up to play physical, but the whole idea of bounties and malicious intent to injure is a disgrace.... and the fact that football is a very tough game with injuries inherent to it is EXACTLY why there are rules against it. The Saints brass and players completely disregarded them, and then lied about it, and now need to take their punishment from the commissioner.... the harsher the better.... and move forward.

But that's generally not what weasels and thugs do.

[Coltsman1788]

This is truly sickening. And to think "America" rooted for these losers in Super Bowl XLIV against us. I really wish the Colts could have stomped them! In any case, it is what it is and we just have to live with the results.

I wish someone would investigate into whether Greg Williams had similar schemes going on with some of the other teams he coached. He was the defensive coordinator of the Redskins in 2006, the same year that they tried to rip Peyton's head off ultimately leading the the neck troubles that paved his way out of Indy. It would not surprise me at all if some kind of bounty was taken out on Peyton during that game. Nevertheless, the Colts proceeded to kick their collective butts.

This guy should never coach again...period.

[RGIII]

This is truly sickening. And to think "America" rooted for these losers in Super Bowl XLIV against us. I really wish the Colts could have stomped them! In any case, it is what it is and we just have to live with the results.

I wish someone would investigate into whether Greg Williams had similar schemes going on with some of the other teams he coached. He was the defensive coordinator of the Redskins in 2006, the same year that they tried to rip Peyton's head off ultimately leading the the neck troubles that paved his way out of Indy. It would not surprise me at all if some kind of bounty was taken out on Peyton during that game. Nevertheless, the Colts proceeded to kick their collective butts.

This guy should never coach again...period.

It's already public knowledge that Williams did something similar in DC. Several former players have commented about it: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/carlos-rogers-downplays-redskins-bounty-system-under-gregg-williams/2012/04/05/gIQADvAYxS_blog.html

Also worth mentioning that the hit on Peyton was almost certainly not the direct result of any bounty program. Considering the way that play went down and the two Skins players involved (both grade A, class act types), it was just a freak accident that Peyton got all bent up like he did.

[pacolts56]

It's already public knowledge that Williams did something similar in DC. Several former players have commented about it: http://www.washingto...vAYxS_blog.html

Also worth mentioning that the hit on Peyton was almost certainly not the direct result of any bounty program. Considering the way that play went down and the two Skins players involved (both grade A, class act types), it was just a freak accident that Peyton got all bent up like he did.

Maybe, maybe not.... I wouldn't expect any 2006 Skins players would volunteer anything specific if it was bounty-driven, not after all this time.

But Gregg Williams fostered a culture of thuggery just about everywhere he coached.... so even if the Manning hit is never proven to be a paid situation, I won't give that dirty pig the benefit of the doubt.

[southwest1]

I understand when people say getting players riled up & violence is part of football & profanity is fine with me too. It is the equivalent of putting on warrior paint, going to battle, & getting the competitive juices flowing. LB Ray Lewis is the best at this with his "Are there any dogs in the house?" speech on the Baltimore Ravens squad during the pre game rituals.

What really infuriates me is specifically advocating for targeting another NFL players head or ACL tears. When a DC is encouraging head trauma & knee blowouts, he is jeopardizing that targeted players career, financial livelihood, overall health after they retire from the game, & the quality of their life decades later after they hang up their cleats forever.

In addition, Sean Payton and all the other suspended Saints personnel need to stop creating the false accusation that Gregg Williams was a rogue coach they had no knowledge of this crude behavior or control over. Stop It!!! When Williams was on your staff & won a Superbowl in 2009, you though Williams was a fantastic DC now he is toxic & foreign to you? Gimme a break Sean Payton & Co!!! You got caught red handed & are now looking for an easy fall guy & scapegoat. This immature, childish behavior simply repulses me.

[MEAT]

It's already public knowledge that Williams did something similar in DC.  Several former players have commented about it: http://www.washingto...vAYxS_blog.html

Also worth mentioning that the hit on Peyton was almost certainly not the direct result of any bounty program.  Considering the way that play went down and the two Skins players involved (both grade A, class act types), it was just a freak accident that Peyton got all bent up like he did.

Doubtful.

[El Poonerator]

Listened...'shakes head' What a *.

[Peytongirl]

Sorry - title is misleading I realized. I don't have the video itself.

Fixed it for you, though some links do show him in a video making the gestures. ;)

[Peytongirl]

It's already public knowledge that Williams did something similar in DC. Several former players have commented about it: http://www.washingto...vAYxS_blog.html

Also worth mentioning that the hit on Peyton was almost certainly not the direct result of any bounty program. Considering the way that play went down and the two Skins players involved (both grade A, class act types), it was just a freak accident that Peyton got all bent up like he did.

The main player involved in that certainly would not have been a part of a bounty program. Daniels was horrified that Peyton was hurt and distraught, going to him and Coach Dungy several times to see if things were okay. It was a freak accident when one player went high and one went low. Daniels has always been blamed for that and I was there and have never thought he did it purposely. Not even now.

[Peytongirl]

Anyone who participated in that mess in NO (or elsewhere) should pay dearly, IMHO. But Williams, Payton, Loomis and Co. - all together need to go down. They cannot put it all on one.

[David Wagner]

I understand when people say getting players riled up & violence is part of football & profanity is fine with me too. It is the equivalent of putting on warrior paint, going to battle, & getting the competitive juices flowing. LB Ray Lewis is the best at this with his "Are there any dogs in the house?" speech on the Baltimore Ravens squad during the pre game rituals.

What really infuriates me is specifically advocating for targeting another NFL players head or ACL tears. When a DC is encouraging head trauma & knee blowouts, he is jeopardizing that targeted players career, financial livelihood, overall health after they retire from the game, & the quality of their life decades later after they hang up their cleats forever.

In addition, Sean Payton and all the other suspended Saints personnel need to stop creating the false accusation that Gregg Williams was a rogue coach they had no knowledge of this crude behavior or control over. Stop It!!! When Williams was on your staff & won a Superbowl in 2009, you though Williams was a fantastic DC now he is toxic & foreign to you? Gimme a break Sean Payton & Co!!! You got caught red handed & are now looking for an easy fall guy & scapegoat. This immature, childish behavior simply repulses me.

If you listened to the tape he was not specifically attacking frank gores head. Frank gore is the head of the 49ner monster. Separate the head and the body will die means take gore out of the game by hitting him hard, make him earn every extra year, take away the niners run game and make alex smith beat you. hit the head, means hit frank gore every time you get a chance because most backs do not like to get hit. lot of metaphors people who have never played football do not understand. now i do not condone attacking the knee that is wrong but I am sure going to hit crabtree hard to see if he really wants to play.

[Gramz]

If you listened to the tape he was not specifically attacking frank gores head. Frank gore is the head of the 49ner monster. Separate the head and the body will die means take gore out of the game by hitting him hard, make him earn every extra year, take away the niners run game and make alex smith beat you. hit the head, means hit frank gore every time you get a chance because most backs do not like to get hit. lot of metaphors people who have never played football do not understand. now i do not condone attacking the knee that is wrong but I am sure going to hit crabtree hard to see if he really wants to play.

please don't make excuses for these unexcusable acts...... There is no excuse that makes what any of them did acceptable.

[southwest1]

I understand when people say getting players riled up & violence is part of football & profanity is fine with me too. It is the equivalent of putting on warrior paint, going to battle, & getting the competitive juices flowing. LB Ray Lewis is the best at this with his "Are there any dogs in the house?" speech on the Baltimore Ravens squad during the pre game rituals.

What really infuriates me is specifically advocating for targeting another NFL players head or ACL tears. When a DC is encouraging head trauma & knee blowouts, he is jeopardizing that targeted players career, financial livelihood, overall health after they retire from the game, & the quality of their life decades later after they hang up their cleats forever.

In addition, Sean Payton and all the other suspended Saints personnel need to stop creating the false accusation that Gregg Williams was a rogue coach they had no knowledge of this crude behavior or control over. Stop It!!! When Williams was on your staff & won a Superbowl in 2009, you though Williams was a fantastic DC now he is toxic & foreign to you? Gimme a break Sean Payton & Co!!! You got caught red handed & are now looking for an easy fall guy & scapegoat. This immature, childish behavior simply repulses me.

If you listened to the tape he was not specifically attacking frank gores head. Frank gore is the head of the 49ner monster. Separate the head and the body will die means take gore out of the game by hitting him hard, make him earn every extra year, take away the niners run game and make alex smith beat you. hit the head, means hit frank gore every time you get a chance because most backs do not like to get hit. lot of metaphors people who have never played football do not understand. now i do not condone attacking the knee that is wrong but I am sure going to hit crabtree hard to see if he really wants to play.

David,

I have no problem with "Kill the head of the snake & the body will die." That artistic license simply means make the QB feel uncomfortable by sacks, flushing him out of the pocket, sliding around near his feet, & obstructing his line of vision so that by the 4th quarter the QB will fumble the ball or throw a pick. I get it. Also, behind closed doors it is common to advocate that key players be hit long, hard, & often in order to generate & perpetuate fear.

Here's what bothers me; late hits after the whistle is blown, late hits when a player is clearly out of bounds or high in the air & can't protect themselves, zooming in on a players knees, head, or neck, & hitting a player both high & low at the same time. See Peyton Manning Vs. the Redskins with Gregg Williams as the DC...I'm surprised that Manning didn't snap in half like a wishbone. Or Brett Favre in the 2009 NFC Championship Game...I seriously thought they were trying to kill him by the 4th quarter.

I do love defense & it does tick me off when the zebras baby the offense completely & I do get upset when I see running backs lower their helmet that could just as easily injure that linebacker & possibly lead to severe injury for that defensive player. Or when a QB adjusts their body & a DE's original point of tejectory [sic] now changes & he gets heavily fined for it etc. etc.

Foul language no problem. Colorful imagery of pain, hits, & agony no problem. Letting the defense play full boar absolutely. Targeting knees, heads, or blindside licks after the play is over Big Problem. Ignoring repeat NFL warnings Big Problem. Under the table bounties...An IRS Uncle Sam untaxed revenue Big Problem IMO.

There is something to be said for 1st hand experience, baptism by fire, & live rounds in the demolition gun I agree. Can a person who never played truly grasp blood, sweat, roars, & live pops on the field? Probably not David.

[pacolts56]

If you listened to the tape he was not specifically attacking frank gores head. Frank gore is the head of the 49ner monster. Separate the head and the body will die means take gore out of the game by hitting him hard, make him earn every extra year, take away the niners run game and make alex smith beat you. hit the head, means hit frank gore every time you get a chance because most backs do not like to get hit. lot of metaphors people who have never played football do not understand. now i do not condone attacking the knee that is wrong but I am sure going to hit crabtree hard to see if he really wants to play.

You do realize that the more you try to split hairs or sanitize this filthy pig's motives.... the more ridiculous it sounds.

Whether anyone in this discussion played football is completely besides the point because anyone aware of the culture this jerk fostered can figure out the difference between his metaphors and his inflamatory and malicious comments. All this pregame speech did was corroborate his behavior and illustrate his complete arrogance, on which his own peers such as Brian Billick and Steve Mariucci registered their disgust on NFLN today.

Are their credentials good enough for you?

Gregg Williams had every intent of directing Saints players to injure the opposition and added cash rewards.... and people with a whole lot more information than you and I who are VERY plugged into the NFL have concluded as much.

Heck, he's not even appealing his punishment..... what does that tell you?

[UF2]

Isn't it funny how Gregg Williams started all of this.

[GoColts8818]

1. where is all the profaintiy. that is tame compared to my high school coach and college coaches.

2. Willaims in speaking metaphors.lf you have played in a top high school program or college program you understand what kill the head means. it has nothing to do with hitting the actual head. It means knock the % out of him to see if he wants to play when he is getting the crap beat out of him.

3. Now I do not support money for hurting a player. However, say Petyon manning has broken ribs. Every chance I get a chance to hit Petyon legally in the ribs I am going to do it. DEFENSIVE FOOTBALL IS ABOUT PUNCHING THE OTHER TEAM IN THE MOUTH( metaphor) AND SEEING HOW THEY WILL REACT. EVEYRONE HAS A PLAN UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE. MOST PEOPLE WHEN THEY GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE CURL UP IN THE FETAL POSITON AND SAY NO MORE.

It's not a metaphore when you say a guy is coming off a concussion and you say we need to hit him in the head and see just how bad that concussion is. Also the Frank Gore bit is talking about going after Frank Gore's knee where he tore his ACL in it a couple of years ago. That isn't a metaphore either. That's targetting injuries and saying go after them. I am sure Williams isn't the only one who does that as sad as it is to say that. It doesn't make it right though. Like I said before people rob people and get away with it, if you get caught they don't let you off because others did it too and didn't get caught. Williams got caught and the fact he was dumb enough to give this speech a week after the league told the team they were reopening the investagation into the bounties knowing there was a camera person in the room filming tells you just how little Williams thought of the NFL saying hey stop this.

Most people seem to be taking the stance of when you start payng players to hurt other players and when the coach is telling you to go after specific injuries to try to hurt someone is crossing a line and it's pretty clear that most people do not see this as legaly going after somene. It's one thing to put a clean tackle on a guy in the middle of the game it's another to try to hurt hm further because you can get a little extra cash. It's very hard to tell which is which in a game which is why you can't let this go on if you know about it and it's why the Saints are going to pay as much as they are.

The NFL already gave the Saints a chance to sweep this under the rug and make it go away the first time when the league told them hey you need to stop this and what did the team do? They ignored them to the point the league came back and said okay look we told you to stop and now we are going to take a closer look. Then you get this speech a week later. This is the smoking gun showing that shows the Saints just ignored what the league was telling them to do. Goodell isn't going to put up with that. It's like when you were a kid and did something wrong and your parents told you to stop and you kept doing it anyways and they caught you and found out you lyed to them about it often times the lying gets you in more trouble the real act. I think that's part of what is going on here. Had the Saints stopped when the league told them to this would have just gone away. No one had this story. The league broke it on themselves which says a lot in this modern world. It also means the league was ticked and wanted to make an example out of the Saints not only for bounty gate but as a message to the rest of the teams of when we tell you stop something we mean it.

Also I don't think most people care so much about the cursing. I think that was just a warning from the OP for those who might watch this at work or have kids around. I don't think people are so bent out of shape over that. They are bent out of shape over a coach saying at least twice go after specific known injuries and see if you can get them out of the game. Most people don't see that as being in the spirit of the game.

[David Wagner]

David,

I have no problem with "Kill the head of the snake & the body will die." That artistic license simply means make the QB feel uncomfortable by sacks, flushing him out of the pocket, sliding around near his feet, & obstructing his line of vision so that by the 4th quarter the QB will fumble the ball or throw a pick. I get it. Also, behind closed doors it is common to advocate that key players be hit long, hard, & often in order to generate & perpetuate fear.

Here's what bothers me; late hits after the whistle is blown, late hits when a player is clearly out of bounds or high in the air & can't protect themselves, zooming in on a players knees, head, or neck, & hitting a player both high & low at the same time. See Peyton Manning Vs. the Redskins with Gregg Williams as the DC...I'm surprised that Manning didn't snap in half like a wishbone. Or Brett Favre in the 2009 NFC Championship Game...I seriously thought they were trying to kill him by the 4th quarter.

I do love defense & it does tick me off when the zebras baby the offense completely & I do get upset when I see running backs lower their helmet that could just as easily injure that linebacker & possibly lead to severe injury for that defensive player. Or when a QB adjusts their body & a DE's original point of tejectory [sic] now changes & he gets heavily fined for it etc. etc.

Foul language no problem. Colorful imagery of pain, hits, & agony no problem. Letting the defense play full boar absolutely. Targeting knees, heads, or blindside licks after the play is over Big Problem. Ignoring repeat NFL warnings Big Problem. Under the table bounties...An IRS Uncle Sam untaxed revenue Big Problem IMO.

There is something to be said for 1st hand experience, baptism by fire, & live rounds in the demolition gun I agree. Can a person who never played truly grasp blood, sweat, roars, & live pops on the field? Probably not David.

I can see your point. The question I have is if these are late hits why are officals getting off scott free? I do agree many hits on brett favre were late and the Zebras did not blow the whistle. should n't the officals be suspended as well for not doing their job to protect players? This is where I have a hard time when the comish says he is for improving player safety. IF he was interested in palyer safety he would instruct the refs to call spearing which is what james harrison does on every kill shot. leading with the crown of your head is spearing or at least that is how I was taught in high school and college. also, if the comish was interested in player safety he would demand player put pads back in their pants. you go to a high school and college game and every player had hip,but, thigh and knee pads. the reason the comish does not want this is, it would slow down the game players and there would then be a lack of big hits for the NFL to market on videos to fans. you want to stop the concussion problem slow the game down and move the hash marks back to what they have at the college level. by having the hash marks in the middle of the field it has encouraged teams to spread defenses out with multiple 3,4 & 5 wr packages. the more space you create the bigger the hits are.

[David Wagner]

You do realize that the more you try to split hairs or sanitize this filthy pig's motives.... the more ridiculous it sounds.

Whether anyone in this discussion played football is completely besides the point because anyone aware of the culture this jerk fostered can figure out the difference between his metaphors and his inflamatory and malicious comments. All this pregame speech did was corroborate his behavior and illustrate his complete arrogance, on which his own peers such as Brian Billick and Steve Mariucci registered their disgust on NFLN today.

Are their credentials good enough for you?

Gregg Williams had every intent of directing Saints players to injure the opposition and added cash rewards.... and people with a whole lot more information than you and I who are VERY plugged into the NFL have concluded as much.

Heck, he's not even appealing his punishment..... what does that tell you?

how can Gregg Willams appeal punishment when he has not been punished. all that has been said if he will be out for an undetermined amount of time of which most people said will be a years. notice the people you have mentioned are not defensive coaches either. Steve M was a head coach/oc and Brian B was head coach/oc. neither have coached on the defensive side of the ball. I can tell you there are defensive coaches in the nfl who have no problem with what Greg Willaims said. like I have said, I do not agree on bountys at all nor do I believe in attempting to injure players. however, I do believe in hitting people with as much force as possible. my hero growing up was chuck cecil. good old chuck would put the wood to people and he was a small guy by nfl standards being barely 6ft and barely 200 lbs. he was a mean and violent man on the field yet wrote poetry and painted off the field. He was on the cover of SI as well with the title to mean to vicous for the nfl. He is now the Titans DC. fact is most people who try to injure a player on the other team get so caught up in it and when you try hard you often wiff. the best licks I have put on anyone came at natural times. the receiver who does not have his head on a swivel. the running back who goes half harted or is half harted in pass protection, the qb who is standing around and not going full speed. if you have never played the game beyond the high school level you do not understand the leve of intenstity you need to play at. it is the same if you are playing for Tyalor U or the U of Indianaplois, or Ball State. Most people do not like to get hit so that is why very few people play football or box or do Mixed Martial Arts. you have to think a bit different to be okay with hitting and getting hit. my boxing coaching in high school said " every guy in a bar has a plan of what they are going to do if they get but it changes when they get hit"

[The Fish]

Incentivizing injuries is border line criminal, and it's a waste of time to defend it. Its not like we don't know were enjoying a physical game and that there's risk involved for the players. Sportsmanship is key here, you don't take me out on purpose and I won't take you out on purpose and we can both make a living at this, is the unwritten code your ignoring.

[David Wagner]

Incentivizing injuries is border line criminal, and it's a waste of time to defend it. Its not like we don't know were enjoying a physical game and that there's risk involved for the players. Sportsmanship is key here, you don't take me out on purpose and I won't take you out on purpose and we can both make a living at this, is the unwritten code your ignoring.

read the book the code. it is the unwritten rules in football. if you cheap shot me I have the duty and right to cheap shot you back.

[The Fish]

Right. That's my point, Williams openly wanted dirty play, and he thumbed his nose at the league while encoraging it.

No football fan would have been upset over a few "keep knockin the F out of em", coach talk, but that wasn't the message in that tape. It was rewarding and instigating "head hunting". Hence it broke "the code".

[pacolts56]

how can Gregg Willams appeal punishment when he has not been punished. all that has been said if he will be out for an undetermined amount of time of which most people said will be a years. notice the people you have mentioned are not defensive coaches either. Steve M was a head coach/oc and Brian B was head coach/oc. neither have coached on the defensive side of the ball. I can tell you there are defensive coaches in the nfl who have no problem with what Greg Willaims said. like I have said, I do not agree on bountys at all nor do I believe in attempting to injure players. however, I do believe in hitting people with as much force as possible. my hero growing up was chuck cecil. good old chuck would put the wood to people and he was a small guy by nfl standards being barely 6ft and barely 200 lbs. he was a mean and violent man on the field yet wrote poetry and painted off the field. He was on the cover of SI as well with the title to mean to vicous for the nfl. He is now the Titans DC. fact is most people who try to injure a player on the other team get so caught up in it and when you try hard you often wiff. the best licks I have put on anyone came at natural times. the receiver who does not have his head on a swivel. the running back who goes half harted or is half harted in pass protection, the qb who is standing around and not going full speed. if you have never played the game beyond the high school level you do not understand the leve of intenstity you need to play at. it is the same if you are playing for Tyalor U or the U of Indianaplois, or Ball State. Most people do not like to get hit so that is why very few people play football or box or do Mixed Martial Arts. you have to think a bit different to be okay with hitting and getting hit. my boxing coaching in high school said " every guy in a bar has a plan of what they are going to do if they get but it changes when they get hit"

!!! !!! !!!

What do you call an indefinite suspension without pay.... a game show parting gift?

David.... we get it. You're the most fearless and mighty warrior since the Spartan King Leonidas.... and apparently you also have more insight about all this than a Super Bowl winning Head Coach.

I'm not gonna waste any more time debating this.... you're entitled to your opinion.... but thanks for the laugh.

[southwest1]

I can see your point. The question I have is if these are late hits why are officals getting off scott free? I do agree many hits on brett favre were late and the Zebras did not blow the whistle. should n't the officals be suspended as well for not doing their job to protect players? This is where I have a hard time when the comish says he is for improving player safety. IF he was interested in palyer safety he would instruct the refs to call spearing which is what james harrison does on every kill shot. leading with the crown of your head is spearing or at least that is how I was taught in high school and college. also, if the comish was interested in player safety he would demand player put pads back in their pants. you go to a high school and college game and every player had hip,but, thigh and knee pads. the reason the comish does not want this is, it would slow down the game players and there would then be a lack of big hits for the NFL to market on videos to fans. you want to stop the concussion problem slow the game down and move the hash marks back to what they have at the college level. by having the hash marks in the middle of the field it has encouraged teams to spread defenses out with multiple 3,4 & 5 wr packages. the more space you create the bigger the hits are.

David,

You make an number of excellent points that I cannot refute. NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell does seem to be sending a glaring message about safety that is extremely contradictory IMO. Advanced scientific helmet design to reduce concussions is meaningless if no mandatory pads are ever worn on the legs & lower body. Yes, you are again correct when you say the NFL does market & sell DVD's of the most violent hits & yet the NFL always throws up road blocks for retired players who require medical assistance later in life or permanent disability classification as a result of those sustained hits & punishment in the league. I can't prove this, but it does seem like an NFL Directive has been issued to protect QB's at all costs since QB's & a high powered offense sells season tickets, jerseys, & other merchandise...Pass rushing penalties were getting bananas about 4-5 years ago IMO.

It is hard to discipline zebras these days, especially when the fans get spoiled today with fiber optic 3D technology from a multitude of different angles & slow down pauses. Watching a play live on the field vs. a play broken down second by second, frame by frame, is a very different animal as you are well aware David. But, I do agree missing late hits frequently throughout the course of a game is totally unacceptable to me. In defense of zebras on the professional level, they must learn new rules every year or at least significant modifications on the old rules from last year anyway. I guess zebras that make bad calls consistently can be denied Playoff games next year, but if you are the team that lost your shot at a Superbowl Championship due to back zebra calls....That really isn't much of a comfort to your squad is it? Good debate David. I enjoyed it.

[Gavin]

When I heard this my mind immediately went to the scene from Karate Kid where the Cobra Kai sensei told Johnny to "Sweep The Leg".

one of my all time favorite movies, I liked them all but 1 was the best, better then the remakes with the karate girl and the newest one with jackie chan

[Big Al]

might as well post haven't done so been reading for a long time lol http://www.staged.com/video?v=358b this is the sound clip that was leaked. Sorry if this has already been posted. Also it has a lot of foul language in it so user be warned.

[Keith L. Scott]

I actually thought that the comments were a lot more harsh than what they were after hearing the audio.

I just wonder how this will change things going forward. Yeah one guy (team) got caught but I don't think, no matter what Goodell does, that this will stop teams from putting "bounties" on players. It just also goes to show that in the modern age that no matter where you go or what you do... you are being watched, recorded or listened to by something or someone. Take a moment to look around during a day and look at everything that is monitoring you. This would have never gotten out 10 years ago, heck maybe not even 5 years ago.

Just glad nobody got seriously hurt and this didn't affect anyone's career and livelihood.

[Gavin]

12 minute audio on youtube regarding 49er game "kill the head and the body will die" the most damaging of it all when speaking of Frank Gore, payin a guy extra money 100 dollars here or their not so bad in my book but what did it was the Frank Gore comment

[ruksak]

1. where is all the profaintiy. that is tame compared to my high school coach and college coaches.

2. Willaims in speaking metaphors.lf you have played in a top high school program or college program you understand what kill the head means. it has nothing to do with hitting the actual head. It means knock the % out of him to see if he wants to play when he is getting the crap beat out of him.

3. Now I do not support money for hurting a player. However, say Petyon manning has broken ribs. Every chance I get a chance to hit Petyon legally in the ribs I am going to do it. DEFENSIVE FOOTBALL IS ABOUT PUNCHING THE OTHER TEAM IN THE MOUTH( metaphor) AND SEEING HOW THEY WILL REACT. EVEYRONE HAS A PLAN UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE. MOST PEOPLE WHEN THEY GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE CURL UP IN THE FETAL POSITON AND SAY NO MORE.

There was a total lack of metaphor in Williams remarks. His instructions were clear and quite alarming. Almost as alarming as an entire fanbase (Saints Fans) acting like children and refusing to acknowledge that what their team did was wrong. It is wholly unconscionable for them to pretend that their team is being picked on and for them to talk about boycotting NFL apparel and NFL Sunday Ticket. Your disgusting franchise got the least of what it had coming to them.

Digest this, Saints people; The rest of the leagues fans, all 31 teams worth, hates your disgusting fleur-de-lis and what it now represents. I'm laughing at your pain and will continue to do so until every last trace of this horrid regime is wiped out of New Orleans.