Teven Jenkins: OT Oklahoma State

[DownHillRunner]

Here are his pro day results 

 

 

 

Height: 6'5 Weight: 317 Hand: 9 1/2 Arm: 33 1/2 Wing: 81 40: 5.03/5.01 Vert: 32.5 Broad: 8-10 SS: 4.66 3C: 7.72 Bench: 36

 

 

 

Pros:

 

 

Split low with wide frame, good power and excellent body control.

Instinctive feel for positioning and quick to adjust his blocks when needed.

Powerful core allows him to base up and flatten the edge for running backs.

Full sustain mode closes door once his hands lock in.

Ready and willing to bury his man.

Plays under squared pads as a climbing blocker.

Athleticism for smooth drift from block to block on second level.

Quick to set out on wide-angle rushers and close the distance.

Keeps hands back until his target is within range.

Strong, sure hands clench up and stall rush attack.

Capable hand fighting to recapture control.

 

 

Cons: 

Very short arms for tackle position.

Lack of length shows up when trying to hit redirect block at the top of rush.

Longer defenders can stab and separate from him.

Could struggle to gain enough depth against speed rush.

Displays slight inconsistencies with weight dispersal.

Loses contact with run blocks, showing occasional leaning.

Some scouts voiced concerns about football character.

 

 

 

 

I'm going to go out and say this guy plays nasty. I'm talking about Big Q nasty. He mauled Joesph Ossai to oblivion when they played each other. I don't want to hear that he doesn't have the arms to play tackle. That is exactly was scouts and analysts said about Braden Smith coming out of Auburn that his arms were too small to play tackle. My only questions are, can he play LT for 17 games a season in his career? And, does go off the board in the 1st round or the 2nd round? Draft or Pass? 

 

 

 

[danlhart87]

Hes my 2nd favorite prospect in draft 

[twfish]

Heres a terrific video about him. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1jlLUWjwDo

[richard pallo]

I’m  pretty sure he’s being projected as a RT. He will be drafted high though.

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I’m  pretty sure he’s being projected as a RT. He will be drafted high though.

Correct and will most likely be converted to LT eventually or just move Smith to LT

[richard pallo]

15 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Correct and will most likely be converted to LT eventually or just move Smith to LT

A team will probably draft him to play RT.  Teams need RT’s too.  Not all tackles are converted to LT. 

[krunk]

I think people harp on long arm requirements too much. Especially if its clear on tape the player can more than hold his own. Theres plenty of long arm tackles in this league that cant play.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, DownHillRunner said:

Here are his pro day results 

 

 

 

Height: 6'5 Weight: 317 Hand: 9 1/2 Arm: 33 1/2 Wing: 81 40: 5.03/5.01 Vert: 32.5 Broad: 8-10 SS: 4.66 3C: 7.72 Bench: 36

 

 

 

Pros:

 

 

Split low with wide frame, good power and excellent body control.

Instinctive feel for positioning and quick to adjust his blocks when needed.

Powerful core allows him to base up and flatten the edge for running backs.

Full sustain mode closes door once his hands lock in.

Ready and willing to bury his man.

Plays under squared pads as a climbing blocker.

Athleticism for smooth drift from block to block on second level.

Quick to set out on wide-angle rushers and close the distance.

Keeps hands back until his target is within range.

Strong, sure hands clench up and stall rush attack.

Capable hand fighting to recapture control.

 

 

Cons: 

Very short arms for tackle position.

Lack of length shows up when trying to hit redirect block at the top of rush.

Longer defenders can stab and separate from him.

Could struggle to gain enough depth against speed rush.

Displays slight inconsistencies with weight dispersal.

Loses contact with run blocks, showing occasional leaning.

Some scouts voiced concerns about football character.

 

 

 

 

I'm going to go out and say this guy plays nasty. I'm talking about Big Q nasty. He mauled Joesph Ossai to oblivion when they played each other. I don't want to hear that he doesn't have the arms to play tackle. That is exactly was scouts and analysts said about Braden Smith coming out of Auburn that his arms were too small to play tackle. My only questions are, can he play LT for 17 games a season in his career? And, does go off the board in the 1st round or the 2nd round? Draft or Pass? 

 

 

 

Jenkins played 32 games overall at tackle in college.    25 at Right Tackle, 7 at Left Tackle. 
 

2018:   10 at Right; 3 at Left

2019:     9 at Right; 3 at Left

2020:     6 at Right; 1 at Left

 

What part of this profile looks like a future LEFT Tackle?     The analysts I read...  DJ, Zierlein, Kiper, McShay, the PFF guys, all say Right Tackle or guard.  None say L-Tackle. 
 

I don’t get the excitement or attraction here. 

As for Braden Smith?  No, scouts did NOT say that about him.  Why?   Because he played about 40-something games at Guard in college and ONE at tackle.  
 

It was the Colts and Chris Ballard, especially Ballard who took a hard stand.  We were in a bind in 2018.  We needed a tackle and we could play Glow at RG if we moved Smith.   Ballard thought his arms at 32 1/2 were too short.  Our scouts and coaches thought he could do it.  Ballard eventually figured it was worth a shot.  We moved Smith and it has worked for us.   But I think this view of Smith is distorted.  

 

[DownHillRunner]

1 hour ago, twfish said:

Heres a terrific video about him. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1jlLUWjwDo

 

 

 

Great video. How he sets his feet and comes off the line of scrimmage before all the other linemen in pass blocking is really a unique trait of his 

[DownHillRunner]

27 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Jenkins played 32 games overall at tackle in college.    25 at Right Tackle, 7 at Left Tackle. 
 

2018:   10 at Right; 3 at Left

2019:     9 at Right; 3 at Left

2020:     6 at Right; 1 at Left

 

What part of this profile looks like a future LEFT Tackle?     The analysts I read...  DJ, Zierlein, Kiper, McShay, the PFF guys, all say Right Tackle or guard.  None say L-Tackle. 
 

I don’t get the excitement or attraction here. 

As for Braden Smith?  No, scouts did NOT say that about him.  Why?   Because he played about 40-something games at Guard in college and ONE at tackle.  
 

It was the Colts and Chris Ballard, especially Ballard who took a hard stand.  We were in a bind in 2018.  We needed a tackle and we could play Glow at RG if we moved Smith.   Ballard thought his arms at 32 1/2 were too short.  Our scouts and coaches thought he could do it.  Ballard eventually figured it was worth a shot.  We moved Smith and it has worked for us.   But I think this view of Smith is distorted.  

 

 

 

Braden Smith was projected to be an inside guard in the NFL. 

 

 

"Braden Smith is an ideal Round 2-3 candidate with the tools to be a rookie starter. He checks the boxes for size but has shorter arms (32 ¼") that keep his projection inside at guard. If he can work on more consistent hand placement, he could become a Pro Bowl-caliber player." 

 

 

 

 

[Zoltan]

1 hour ago, DownHillRunner said:

 

Cons: 

Very short arms for tackle position.

 

I'm going to go out and say this guy plays nasty. I'm talking about Big Q nasty. He mauled Joesph Ossai to oblivion when they played each other. I don't want to hear that he doesn't have the arms to play tackle. That is exactly was scouts and analysts said about Braden Smith coming out of Auburn that his arms were too small to play tackle. My only questions are, can he play LT for 17 games a season in his career? And, does go off the board in the 1st round or the 2nd round? Draft or Pass? 

 

I have been really curious about what is considered good and bad as for arm length because it seems really inconsistent on what is good/bad and I ran across this article on pff, which granted they are using their grading system and has several variables unaccounted for but it was still interesting to see that arm length seems to be not as big a deal as it is talked about.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/does-arm-length-affect-ot-play

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, DownHillRunner said:

 

 

Braden Smith was projected to be an inside guard in the NFL. 

 

 

"Braden Smith is an ideal Round 2-3 candidate with the tools to be a rookie starter. He checks the boxes for size but has shorter arms (32 ¼") that keep his projection inside at guard. If he can work on more consistent hand placement, he could become a Pro Bowl-caliber player." 

 

 

 

 

Great.   I stand corrected.  Happy to be. 
 

So Ballard wasn’t alone in thinking that Smith’s short arms would mean he’s a guard and not a tackle.   Short arms are an issue across the NFL recognized as a problem for O-Tackles.   It can be done, but the guys who can are more the exception than the rule. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

 

I have been really curious about what is considered good and bad as for arm length because it seems really inconsistent on what is good/bad and I ran across this article on pff, which granted they are using their grading system and has several variables unaccounted for but it was still interesting to see that arm length seems to be not as big a deal as it is talked about.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/does-arm-length-affect-ot-play

 

 

 

For what it’s worth....    2013. 

[Zoltan]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

For what it’s worth....    2013. 

 

Yeah it is definitely not new, but still interesting 

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, Zoltan said:

 

Yeah it is definitely not new, but still interesting 

I’m just not sure how relevant it is all these years later?    8 years is a long time in NFL years.   

[Zoltan]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m just not sure how relevant it is all these years later?    8 years is a long time in NFL years.   

 

It seems relevant to me, because it's the only article I could find that used data to compare NFL OL arm length and grading at run and pass blocking. Old data doesn't necessarily mean its bad data, and I don't think we have seen a big enough change in the NFL to say that OL was a lot different 8 years ago. 

 

I mean If you know of a newer article with data, i would love to see it

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

 

It seems relevant to me, because it's the only article I could find that used data to compare NFL OL arm length and grading at run and pass blocking. Old data doesn't necessarily mean its bad data, and I don't think we have seen a big enough change in the NFL to say that OL was a lot different 8 years ago. 

 

I mean If you know of a newer article with data, i would love to see it

No...   I haven’t seen newer data.   But what I have seen are 8 more years of player profiles from people connected closely to the NFL that all say arm length is important.   It’s why everyone who is reputable writes about it.  
 

About 5 years ago, ESPN did a series on the preferred dimensions for each position.  Even broke down tackles to Left and Right.  I think it was roughly broken down to desired, average and below acceptable.   Unfortunately, this is Premium material and their archival system is terrible as is NFL.com.  
So I can’t access it.   My point is, the people who cover the NFL still write about it, so it’s a real issue.   It’s not a made up thing by media or anyone else. 

[Shive]

His arms are longer than Rashawn Slater's and he's viewed as one of the top 2 OTs in this draft.

 

I get why arm length is important, but I think that technical ability and football IQ can easily make up for slightly shorter than ideal arms. Jenkins does a great job manipulating edge rushers and using their attempts to long arm him against them. If Ballard and Co think he has what it takes to play LT for us and drafts him, I won't be upset.

[krunk]

I aint gon lie though, Slater is hella good. More of a natural fit at LT than Tevin is. Slater is the real deal. He will probably be gone before our pick im sure. If we ended up with Slater thats a real good get.

[DownHillRunner]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

I aint gon lie though, Slater is hella good. More of a natural fit at LT than Tevin is. Slater is the real deal. He will probably be gone before our pick im sure. If we ended up with Slater thats a real good get.

 

Slater will be gone by the 15th pick. 

2 hours ago, Shive said:

His arms are longer than Rashawn Slater's and he's viewed as one of the top 2 OTs in this draft.

 

I get why arm length is important, but I think that technical ability and football IQ can easily make up for slightly shorter than ideal arms. Jenkins does a great job manipulating edge rushers and using their attempts to long arm him against them. If Ballard and Co think he has what it takes to play LT for us and drafts him, I won't be upset.

 

 

I agree with this, having shorter arms doesn't mean you can't execute your blocks. You can't teach Teven's IQ of the game of football and how he executes his blocks. 

[stitches]

2 hours ago, Shive said:

His arms are longer than Rashawn Slater's and he's viewed as one of the top 2 OTs in this draft.

 

I get why arm length is important, but I think that technical ability and football IQ can easily make up for slightly shorter than ideal arms. Jenkins does a great job manipulating edge rushers and using their attempts to long arm him against them. If Ballard and Co think he has what it takes to play LT for us and drafts him, I won't be upset.

Yeah, if the measurements from his pro-day are true, his arms are actually not short. They are not super long but they also cover the 33" requirement that most teams have for OTs. My only question for him is ability to transition to LT since he's played mainly RT last couple of years. But if they think he can do I have no worries about drafting him 21. 

 

1 hour ago, krunk said:

I aint gon lie though, Slater is hella good. More of a natural fit at LT than Tevin is. Slater is the real deal. He will probably be gone before our pick im sure. If we ended up with Slater thats a real good get.

Yeah... I've assumed Slater is going way before us so I haven't really dug into his tape yet. He looks awesome on highlights though... 

[MikeCurtis]

The guy did handle some speed guys from the right side with ease

 

However

 

It is a significant risk to pick him and shift him over to the left side

 

Lets face it..... the rookie that we pick to fill LT , will probably have to be playing sooner than later

 

There are safer picks at OT at 21

 

I do like the way the kid just mauls people though

[Breeze]

I like the idea of 2 ‘nasties’ on the left side.  I’ll have to bring maple syrup to the games.

[MikeCurtis]

1 hour ago, Breeze said:

I like the idea of 2 ‘nasties’ on the left side.  I’ll have to bring maple syrup to the games.

And then add Tommy Tremble at TE  ........  THE GREAT WALL of INDY

 

The risk is there if we added Jenkins, but MAN would we be able to run the ball........

 

 

[BluesGirl]

 

 

[pgt_rob]

But can he play left tackle? He looks very aggressive and plays with great talent and technique. I really do like him but is he a LT fit? 

[MikeCurtis]

7 minutes ago, BluesGirl said:

 

 

Thanks for sharing

 

Everyone seems to peg him as a RT, even making comments that he has trouble with outside rushers

 

I saw ONE snap where Perkins of OU got him off his feet (Perkins didnt get the sack)

 

(I think we should be looking at Perkins with our 2nd round pick)

 

Every other line vs line video has Jenkins handling outside rushers with ease, fast or slow with power.

 

Unless there is practice tape, I havent seen where he has trouble with any outside speed rushers, even a little bit

 

 

 

[BluesGirl]

3 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Thanks for sharing

 

Everyone seems to peg him as a RT, even making comments that he has trouble with outside rushers

 

I saw ONE snap where Perkins of OU got him off his feet (Perkins didnt get the sack)

 

(I think we should be looking at Perkins with our 2nd round pick)

 

Every other line vs line video has Jenkins handling outside rushers with ease, fast or slow with power.

 

Unless there is practice tape, I havent seen where he has trouble with any outside speed rushers, even a little bit

 

 

 

I agree with all of this including Perkins

[NorthernColt]

I know I'm definitely in the minority on this, but I'm not as high on him as others. He's an absolute mauler, which I do really love.

 

My problem with him is his footwork. I don't like him in space. Personally speaking I prefer tackles who are more fluid in space. Thats just me. I definitely wouldn't be upset if we took him, but theres a handful of guys I'd rather take.

[MikeCurtis]

5 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

I know I'm definitely in the minority on this, but I'm not as high on him as others. He's an absolute mauler, which I do really love.

 

My problem with him is his footwork. I don't like him in space. Personally speaking I prefer tackles who are more fluid in space. Thats just me. I definitely wouldn't be upset if we took him, but theres a handful of guys I'd rather take.

I also would rather have Cosmi or Radunz at LT at 21 Eich if we trade the pick I think they are safer at such an important position of need

[krunk]

34 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

But can he play left tackle? He looks very aggressive and plays with great talent and technique. I really do like him but is he a LT fit? 

He can play every spot on the line. Its just he has more experience at RT. Doesnt mean hes stuck in the mud bc of that. You can evaluate the games where he did play LT and start from there with your eval. Theres guys like Q and Braden who we are considering possibly shifting so its not like they are that concerned with people doing new things. I think Jenkins position flexibility is a plus. Most big time LT dont have position flex like that. They just play the LT and thats it.

[krunk]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Jenkins played 32 games overall at tackle in college.    25 at Right Tackle, 7 at Left Tackle. 
 

2018:   10 at Right; 3 at Left

2019:     9 at Right; 3 at Left

2020:     6 at Right; 1 at Left

 

What part of this profile looks like a future LEFT Tackle?     The analysts I read...  DJ, Zierlein, Kiper, McShay, the PFF guys, all say Right Tackle or guard.  None say L-Tackle. 
 

I don’t get the excitement or attraction here. 

As for Braden Smith?  No, scouts did NOT say that about him.  Why?   Because he played about 40-something games at Guard in college and ONE at tackle.  
 

It was the Colts and Chris Ballard, especially Ballard who took a hard stand.  We were in a bind in 2018.  We needed a tackle and we could play Glow at RG if we moved Smith.   Ballard thought his arms at 32 1/2 were too short.  Our scouts and coaches thought he could do it.  Ballard eventually figured it was worth a shot.  We moved Smith and it has worked for us.   But I think this view of Smith is distorted.  

 

If he played the whole game at LT in each of those 7 games thats a lot of snaps to make a decent evaluation. Of course youd like to see more certainly.

[Zoltan]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

No...   I haven’t seen newer data.   But what I have seen are 8 more years of player profiles from people connected closely to the NFL that all say arm length is important.   It’s why everyone who is reputable writes about it.  
 

About 5 years ago, ESPN did a series on the preferred dimensions for each position.  Even broke down tackles to Left and Right.  I think it was roughly broken down to desired, average and below acceptable.   Unfortunately, this is Premium material and their archival system is terrible as is NFL.com.  
So I can’t access it.   My point is, the people who cover the NFL still write about it, so it’s a real issue.   It’s not a made up thing by media or anyone else. 

 

I would say just going off the article as long as they are over 33 there really isn't a difference for longer arms except that arms longer than 36 can be detrimental.

[NewColtsFan]

20 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

 

I would say just going off the article as long as they are over 33 there really isn't a difference for longer arms except that arms longer than 36 can be detrimental.

NFL people don’t think that.  
 

Longer arms are desired.   Longer Arms equals better.    There’s a rough minimum that’s acceptable to them.   But if they could magically make arms that are 33+ even longer, they’d do it.

[Zoltan]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

NFL people don’t think that.  
 

Longer arms are desired.   Longer Arms equals better.    There’s a rough minimum that’s acceptable to them.   But if they could magically make arms that are 33+ even longer, they’d do it.

 

Yet the data supports otherwise, seems like we have the old debate of data based scouting and the old scouting eye ball test.

[NewColtsFan]

18 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

 

Yet the data supports otherwise, seems like we have the old debate of data based scouting and the old scouting eye ball test.

The data in that one article says that.   Have you noticed how you can’t find anything else that supports that view 8 years later?  Analytics in most sports often spreads like wildfire.   This one sure hasn’t. 

 

If it’s not a big deal, then why does PFF, who published the story, still make long arms a big deal?   

 

I confess I’m having a flash back now.  This story was posted by someone else a number of years ago, and these were some of my answers back then.   Feels the same.  

[stitches]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Jenkins played 32 games overall at tackle in college.    25 at Right Tackle, 7 at Left Tackle. 
 

2018:   10 at Right; 3 at Left

2019:     9 at Right; 3 at Left

2020:     6 at Right; 1 at Left

 

 

Do you have a list of the games he played at LT? I want to take a look... thanks. I knew he had played some at LT, but didn't know it was that many. That's actually kind of a good sample to make a preliminary determinnation about his ability to play at LT. I bet Reich and Ballard have that film and have watched all of those games. Maybe we can glean something from that film.

[Zoltan]

40 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

The data in that one article says that.   Have you noticed how you can’t find anything else that supports that view 8 years later?  Analytics in most sports often spreads like wildfire.   This one sure hasn’t. 

 

If it’s not a big deal, then why does PFF, who published the story, still make long arms a big deal?   

 

I confess I’m having a flash back now.  This story was posted by someone else a number of years ago, and these were some of my answers back then.   Feels the same.  

 

Right now its the article that has data vs your opinion, which personally I prefer data over opinion.

 

I think we will just have to agree to disagree like I said its an old school vs new school argument which no one ever wins, although I do like the irony that you ask for more recent data without having data to support your side, which I think you are falling for recency bias

[NewColtsFan]

16 minutes ago, stitches said:

Do you have a list of the games he played at LT? I want to take a look... thanks. I knew he had played some at LT, but didn't know it was that many. That's actually kind of a good sample to make a preliminary determinnation about his ability to play at LT. I bet Reich and Ballard have that film and have watched all of those games. Maybe we can glean something from that film.

I think only Okla State would have that info.   I saw the info on a profile if Jenkins.   I think it may have been over at NFL.com.   It’s a season breakdown and not a game by game breakdown. 
 

I remain confused why people here think there is good news in this info?    He was a Right Tackle for 3 Years.    I’m guessing that he played the left side whenever the regular LT was not available.   
 

But at the college level, his coaches didn’t believe Jenkins could be the full time LT.   And it was that way for THREE YEARS.   I don’t see the upside for Jenkins based on this?    The best I could struggle to see is if Smith is moving to LT, OR Nelson is moving to LT and we need a guard.   
 

I’m at a loss to understand our interest....

[richard pallo]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think only Okla State would have that info.   I saw the info on a profile if Jenkins.   I think it may have been over at NFL.com.   It’s a season breakdown and not a game by game breakdown. 
 

I remain confused why people here think there is good news in this info?    He was a Right Tackle for 3 Years.    I’m guessing that he played the left side whenever the regular LT was not available.   
 

But at the college level, his coaches didn’t believe Jenkins could be the full time LT.   And it was that way for THREE YEARS.   I don’t see the upside for Jenkins based on this?    The best I could struggle to see is if Smith is moving to LT, OR Nelson is moving to LT and we need a guard.   
 

I’m at a loss to understand our interest....

I don’t see it either.  Makes no sense considering the number of proven LT’s available.  Just some intentional smoke if you ask me.