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Paye and Phillips are the only Day One studs here

 

Everyone else will most likely be a rotational player or a developmental project to start their careers

 

There's two players I like at 21

There's a few at 54 

 

After that I wouldn't really touch the class

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1 minute ago, tvturner said:

Paye and Phillips are the only Day One studs here

 

Everyone else will most likely be a rotational player or a developmental project to start their careers

 

There's two players I like at 21

There's a few at 54 

 

After that I wouldn't really touch the class

I love Phillips but wouldn't draft him because of his concussions. Paye would be amazing at 21.

Best logical fit IMO is Rousseau. 

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3 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I love Phillips but wouldn't draft him because of his concussions. Paye would be amazing at 21.

Best logical fit IMO is Rousseau. 

I pray we don't draft Rousseau

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3 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

why is that

His size is the best thing about him, he's got the biggest bust potential at the position, he's incredibly raw, and he sat out 2020 and it didn't help him

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37 minutes ago, tvturner said:

Paye and Phillips are the only Day One studs here

 

Everyone else will most likely be a rotational player or a developmental project to start their careers

 

There's two players I like at 21

There's a few at 54 

 

After that I wouldn't really touch the class

I think we need a stud with our 1st pick no matter what the position.  To me that means no ER with the 1st pick.

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32 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

why is that

From what I have read about his pro day, he was unimpressive leading to worries about his opt out year and if he will be the same player when it comes back.

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I like Paye, I've seen Rashad Weaver get pressure against most opponents and I like his size. I like Ronnie Perkins. Perkins the athlete is a fit but not certain character wise.

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I don't think there's a clean DE with a profile I feel good about.   Not one.   All have question marks,  some more than others,  some bigger than others.    But all have issues.    Not sure a single one would start as a rookie.   Even if all were available.

 

So for me, if they're all question marks,  I'd rather go LT, where I see cleaner, clearer projections for success,  and take a DE at pick 54.   Yes,  there will be questions there.   Roughly the same as the questions for pick 21.    So, if the DE doesn't really pan out,  at least our investment is only pick 54 and not pick 21.     

 

 

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Turner, Tryon, or Perkins, 2nd pick

 

I dont see Paye making it to 21.

 

Sample or Weaver if we trade to get a 3rd round pick

 

They arent stars, but would contribute 

 

If we trade for extra picks and came away with OT, then DE, then ANOTHER DE, I would be happy

 

This defense gets picked apart if there is no pass rush. 

 

An average CB that can tackle can look good in this defense (The action is in front of them)

Only IF .... a BIG IF....  only if there is some pressure

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Basham and Turner if you’re talking about round 2 DEs. After his pro day where he came in slimmed dow and tested great, I’m back on the Basham train. He’s not bendy or explosive but very refined as a pass rusher. Also can play inside in sub-packages so think of him as a rich man’s Tyquan Lewis.

 

Turner is the ultimate Ballard prototype. Super long, great character, and relentless motor. Like Basham he can also play inside on sub-packages.

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10 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

I love Phillips but wouldn't draft him because of his concussions. Paye would be amazing at 21.

Best logical fit IMO is Rousseau. 

I'll be VERY surprised if Rousseau goes in the 1st round (no, I don't care where he may 

be in various Mock Drafts).  

 

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Phillips and Paye are the only two I like in the 1st round.

 

Weaver in the 2nd round. 

 

Elerton Smith, Odeyingbo, Sample,  Basham in the 3rd. 

 

Pretty much the only edge guys I like in this draft right now.

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5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't think there's a clean DE with a profile I feel good about.   Not one.   All have question marks,  some more than others,  some bigger than others.    But all have issues.    Not sure a single one would start as a rookie.   Even if all were available.

 

So for me, if they're all question marks,  I'd rather go LT, where I see cleaner, clearer projections for success,  and take a DE at pick 54.   Yes,  there will be questions there.   Roughly the same as the questions for pick 21.    So, if the DE doesn't really pan out,  at least our investment is only pick 54 and not pick 21.     

 

 

I'm in agreement.  Faced with this lineup of DE's, my preference would be to re-sign Houston, and cross my fingers that Turay is finally healthy for a whole season, Lewis is able to step up his effectiveness, AQM contributes well, and Banogu finds a way to put it all together.  For this season.

 

If I had to choose a DE, it would be Kwity Paye, because at least he has already polished part of his game, there's talent and athleticism there to work with, and he's very teachable.  Gregory Rousseau would be second on my list, because of having a history of production, even if it was two years ago.  But he's very raw, and could easily bust out, which is something we don't need.

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18 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I'm in agreement.  Faced with this lineup of DE's, my preference would be to re-sign Houston, and cross my fingers that Turay is finally healthy for a whole season, Lewis is able to step up his effectiveness, AQM contributes well, and Banogu finds a way to put it all together.  For this season.

 

If I had to choose a DE, it would be Kwity Paye, because at least he has already polished part of his game, there's talent and athleticism there to work with, and he's very teachable.  Gregory Rousseau would be second on my list, because of having a history of production, even if it was two years ago.  But he's very raw, and could easily bust out, which is something we don't need.

The thing with Rousseau though, is he only really has one trait that Ballard usually targets; Length. He tested very poorly, I dont think Ballard has drafted anyone really, let alone an edge rusher who wasn't a good athlete. I'd be surprised if he took Rousseau. 

 

The more I dive into it, the more I like Rashad Weaver, based on where we'd be able to get him. With our 2nd rounder or if we trade back and get a 3rd. He's pretty damn good and has flown under the radar a bit. Solid athlete, has good length, strong edge setter, and pretty polished as a rusher compared to the rest of the class. 

 

Plus with his production last year, he did it in his first year back from a torn ACL. So moving forward he should actually be more athletic than he was this year with PITT.

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10 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

Gregory Rousseau would be second on my list, because of having a history of production, even if it was two years ago.  But he's very raw, and could easily bust out, which is something we don't need.

My problem with Rousseau's production is that it wasn't due to anything that translates well to the NFL. His production came in chunks (4 sacks vs FSU, 3 sacks vs PITT), which usually tells me that he more than likely just matched up well vs the guy across from him, not that he is able to be productive on a consistent basis. A handful of these sacks were also due to his ridiculous length and being able to grab the foot of the QB as they scramble away, or just happening to be in the right place at the right time. He also won a lot more often on the inside just by being more athletic than the C/G across from him and he won't get those wins in the NFL. You actually saw his speed on those inside rushes, but off the edge, you just don't see it and his low football IQ (due to inexperience at the position) shows more on the edge where he obviously doesn't have a rush plan, any counter moves, and what he does doesn't seem to have any conviction (like he's unsure of what he's doing). 

 

Like you said he's extremely raw, so there's definitely potential there. He seemed more athletic on tape than he tested, which makes me a bit concerned about how he spent his opt out year and raises a discipline/maturity flag for me. He's very much a boom or bust type player that I wouldn't take in the 1st round.

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3 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Basham and Turner if you’re talking about round 2 DEs. After his pro day where he came in slimmed dow and tested great, I’m back on the Basham train. He’s not bendy or explosive but very refined as a pass rusher. Also can play inside in sub-packages so think of him as a rich man’s Tyquan Lewis.

 

Turner is the ultimate Ballard prototype. Super long, great character, and relentless motor. Like Basham he can also play inside on sub-packages.

I like Basham as well. Hes pretty active. Kind of reminds me of Derek Barnett or Sheard maybe.

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I would much rather go BPA at a position of need rather than reach for a DE with this lack luster class at that position. So I'd be in favor of a CB, OT, or WR rounds 1 and 2 if they are indeed the best player on the board. 

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Rousseau has a lot of potential. He was a Safety and Wr in high school. Only really played 1 years at Miami and didn’t start until a few games into the season. Still managed 15.5 sacks. 

His real strength is kicking inside on 3rd down. He generated a lot of inside pressure & sacks. 

 

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Also if this trade back that we’re all predicting happens, then I would used the 3rd we get back to get Patrick Jones. He didn’t have a great Senior bowl so he’s fallen off the map a bit, but I still like him.

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On 3/31/2021 at 9:53 PM, danlhart87 said:

What are your thoughts?

Anybody that screams Colts pick?

h74i43vin0q61.jpg

Those numbers for Weaver are pretty nice, couples with a decent workout  maybe pick him at 54?

 

Conversely,  wow those Oweh numbers are a concern. His pro day numbers were off the chart. So where's the production?

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Keep this in mind:  The modern NFL uses a running QB that tends to make plays when escaping to his right.  If we get a traditional EDGE guy, like a Mathis or Freeney, who is evaluated by how they can bend AROUND the RT, that just opens up a running lane for the QB.

 

What I want in 2021 is a LDE more than an EDGE.  A guy who can set the edge, maybe two yards into the LOS, to keep the QB in the pocket so that Buckner and Turay, Houston...or Shaka Toney...can make the sack.

 

Is Paye the best edge setter?  Can Payton Turner do it?  Maybe a 4th rounder?  I'd want length too so when the QB tries to escape sideways from DBuck, the LDE has the strength to disengage and the arms and lunge to get an arm around the escaping QB.

 

I think the LDE who is a quick bendy edge guy is just going to create a lot of escape lanes for the QB.  JMO.

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No thanks on Rousseau, I think he has good potential for being a bust. After his opt out he got lazy and it showed at his pro day (Vertical was in the 16th percentile for all DEs since 2000). If I was a scout I would want to see that a prospect used that time to improve at the testing measures because they essentially have had a year to prepare.

 

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On 4/1/2021 at 11:43 AM, BProland85 said:

I would much rather go BPA at a position of need rather than reach for a DE with this lack luster class at that position. So I'd be in favor of a CB, OT, or WR rounds 1 and 2 if they are indeed the best player on the board. 

Agreed. Bring back Houston and dig deep for a prospect with upside in the later rounds.

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On 4/2/2021 at 7:03 AM, DougDew said:

Keep this in mind:  The modern NFL uses a running QB that tends to make plays when escaping to his right.  If we get a traditional EDGE guy, like a Mathis or Freeney, who is evaluated by how they can bend AROUND the RT, that just opens up a running lane for the QB.

 

What I want in 2021 is a LDE more than an EDGE.  A guy who can set the edge, maybe two yards into the LOS, to keep the QB in the pocket so that Buckner and Turay, Houston...or Shaka Toney...can make the sack.

 

Is Paye the best edge setter?  Can Payton Turner do it?  Maybe a 4th rounder?  I'd want length too so when the QB tries to escape sideways from DBuck, the LDE has the strength to disengage and the arms and lunge to get an arm around the escaping QB.

The only two who do that in this class are Phillips and Paye

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Jordan Smith. Long, athletic, explosive, bendy... He will have his pro day this week and my attention will be on his testing. He already measured at 6'6" 255 with 83 1/4" wingspan 33 3/8 arm length, which is almost identical to Kemoko Turay. I kind of expect him to test similarly too. The things he has most troubles with and is most knocked for are the things he will be asked to do the least in our scheme... dropping in coverage, processing and reading the offense, etc. In our defense, the pass-rushers are unleashed on the QB and allowed to use their athletic and physical traits to the best of their abilities... and he has tons and tons of athletic ability. 

 

I think he's my favorite prospect when you consider the price you will need to pay for the level of prospect he is. (otherwise I have other players that I like better earlier in the draft). 

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1 hour ago, Zoltan said:

No thanks on Rousseau, I think he has good potential for being a bust. After his opt out he got lazy and it showed at his pro day (Vertical was in the 16th percentile for all DEs since 2000). If I was a scout I would want to see that a prospect used that time to improve at the testing measures because they essentially have had a year to prepare.

 

Yeah, I wonder if there isn't some of that lazy element to every player who opted out.  I understand the concern about covid and even getting an injury if they opted out later, but attitude of these players has to be investigated more intensely, IMO.

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16 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yeah, I wonder if there isn't some of that lazy element to every player who opted out.  I understand the concern about covid and even getting an injury if they opted out later, but attitude of these players has to be investigated more intensely, IMO.

 

absolutely agree, especially without the combine interviews I think underperforming at pro days will hurt them a lot with possible work ethic and attitudes questions. Then those that opted out and overperform will be held a lot higher because they used that time to prepare well, indicating good work ethic and attitudes.

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