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3 man skills comparison. (Luck, rivers , wentZ


Trace Pyott

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1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Wentz is more mobile then Luck I woukd say. He is more fast twitch. Bigger arm. Highly intelligent.  U take away 2020 and Wentz has a very good resume

Luck is absolutely more mobile than Wentz

His RAS scores prove it

 

Luck is a smart runner, he's not a scrambler

 

And there's also very few quarterbacks who are more intelligent than Andrew. He's probably one of the smartest NFL QBs ever

 

Wentz has a very average resume

 

A 2017 peak where he'll likely never return to followed by 3 straight years of regression 

 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, tvturner said:

Luck is absolutely more mobile than Wentz

His RAS scores prove it

 

Luck is a smart runner, he's not a scrambler

 

And there's also very few quarterbacks who are more intelligent than Andrew. He's probably one of the smartest NFL QBs ever

 

Wentz has a very average resume

 

A 2017 peak where he'll likely never return to followed by 3 straight years of regression 

 

RAS isn't everything. Look at the top QB RAS scores and you'll see as many mediocre and bad QBs as good.

 

And the difference between Luck and Wentz isn't big. Wentz is 9.63 vs Luck 9.79, and difference is due to measurement that don't matter. By the way, Mahomes scored and 8.24. Is Luck more mobile than Mahomes?

 

Their 10 yard split is identical. Wentz is better in short shuttle, and Luck better in 3 cone. Those are the 3 grades that matter when looking at QB mobility, and it's a clean split.

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9 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

RAS isn't everything. Look at the top QB RAS scores and you'll see as many mediocre and bad QBs as good.

 

And the difference between Luck and Wentz isn't big. Wentz is 9.63 vs Luck 9.79, and difference is due to measurement that don't matter. By the way, Mahomes scored and 8.24. Is Luck more mobile than Mahomes?

 

Their 10 yard split is identical. Wentz is better in short shuttle, and Luck better in 3 cone. Those are the 3 grades that matter when looking at QB mobility, and it's a clean split.

RAS isn't to compare QB careers

 

Luck still outperformed Wentz in athletic testing and his 40 time

 

And yes Luck is probably as mobile or more mobile than Mahomes as he beat him out aswell

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55 minutes ago, tvturner said:

Luck is absolutely more mobile than Wentz

His RAS scores prove it

 

Luck is a smart runner, he's not a scrambler

 

And there's also very few quarterbacks who are more intelligent than Andrew. He's probably one of the smartest NFL QBs ever

 

Wentz has a very average resume

 

A 2017 peak where he'll likely never return to followed by 3 straight years of regression 

 

 

 

 

K...watch the tape not the RAS. I am not putting Luck down. Wentz is just quicker..more fast twitch. Luck is thicker and more powerful. If u r talking intelligence off the field, I would most likely say Wentz is also very intelligent. He scored 40 and Luck 37 on the wonderlic. They r both smart guys.  I would not say Luck is necessarily a smart runner. He liked to take on D players. I will go on record and say Wentz will flourish under Reich if he can stay healthy

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I never said Wentz was a scrub, I am warming up to him but to say he is going to be better than Andrew is a stretch. I hope you are right.

Never said u did.

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1 minute ago, tvturner said:

RAS isn't to compare QB careers

 

Luck still outperformed Wentz in athletic testing and his 40 time

 

And yes Luck is probably as mobile or more mobile than Mahomes as he beat him out aswell

Dude, come on. Luck is not near as mobile as Mahomes. That's crazy talk. Mahomes had better short shuttle than both. And near the same 3 cone and 10 yard split.

 

40 time means next to nothing when grading mobility. 10 yard split, which is short area speed, was identical with Luck and Wentz. 3 cone and short shuttle, which measure agility and change of direction, were a split. Those are the things that matter, and everyone knows it.

 

Luck outperformed Wentz in vert and broad jump, which accounts for the small difference in their scores. Luck didn't jump over many DEs...

 

I'm guessing you just looked at the raw overall score and made the assumption without putting much thought into what really matters?

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7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

if you think Luck is more mobile than Mahomes, you're clearly not watching tape.

Mahomes and Luck have near identical play speed 

 

And if you don't want to believe that, the rushing statistics between the two are very close

 

Mahomes relies on his mobility more then Andrew ever did

 

Mahomes moves better but it's not a night and day difference between the two

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I've stayed out of this discussion until now.    I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion.   It would be a complete waste of everyone's time.

 

I'll simply say this...

 

When I arrived in 2012,  and every year after that,  I always said Andrew Luck was never, EVER going to be as good as Peyton Manning.   Never.   I said that Luck had to be the best version of Andrew Luck and that would be good enough.   Sadly,  for a wide variety of reasons,  I don't think we ever saw close to seeing the best of Andrew Luck.  

 

But, since he was drafted in 2016, I've also said Wentz reminds me more of Luck than any other QB.   Think they're very similar on AND off the field.    I like the kid.   Always have.    I have no idea -- none -- if he'll be as good as or even better than Luck?

 

I'd simply say he only needs to be the best version of Carson Wentz he can be.   And I think Frank is the guy that can bring that out of him.   Be the best Carson Wentz,  and the Colts should do just fine.   Win a Super Bowl?    I have no idea.   But be a playoff caliber team most every year,  I think that's very much doable.   And as a fan,  I don't like asking for more.   Get us to the playoffs,  I'll take our chances there....

 

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1 minute ago, tvturner said:

Mahomes and Luck have near identical play speed 

 

And if you don't want to believe that, the rushing statistics between the two are very close

 

Mahomes relies on his mobility more then Andrew ever did

 

They're similar whether you want to believe it or not

 

Mahomes moves better but it's not a night and day difference between the two

Mobility is both scrambling (buying time) and rushing. Luck liked to rush, and he wasn't anything special scrambling.

 

Mahomes can do both, but he'd rather buy time and burn you throwing it. Mahomes had the most scrambles in the league last year, and the second highest scramble EPA (second only to Murray).

 

Screen_Shot_2020_10_29_at_3.54.41_PM.png

 

Here's Wentz looking plenty mobile

 

 

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7 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not fair and you know it because Luck only played 5 full seasons and another partial one, Rivers played 17 full seasons. Can't compare all-time stats to someone that played 17 seasons to someone that played 6 lmao . Look up how many comebacks Luck had from 2012-2014 compared to great Rivers 2008-2010 and Luck had more in 2012 alone lmao . Your comparison is like saying LeBron James was a better scorer than Michael Jordan because he has more career points. He does because he has played 5 more seasons. @EastStreet agreeing with you is comical. You guys need to get over the way he retired, that is what this is about, I know from your previous posts. I get it you despise him because he quit on the team, I wasn't happy either but you know by the eye test Luck was more clutch. No way Rivers comes back vs the Chiefs down 28, sorry you are wrong here my friend.

For starters, I averaged it out by year. Not by total. 
 

two: while luck had some very amazing comebacks, I’m not discrediting his clutch ability at all. I’m simply saying that statistically, the number is the same. Could prime Rivers make that comeback you allude too, maybe, maybe not. But that’s not the point. 
 

three: yes Luck carried this team for most of his years here. But let’s be fair here too, it’s not like Rivers didn’t elevate the teams he was on either. Regardless, this has nothing to do with “clutchness” if you’re measuring stick is the number of 4th Quarter comebacks.

 

fourth: one could also argue that while he did lead some big comebacks, that also means he played poorly or at least got out played for 3 quarters of the game.

 

fifth: I deliberately left out Luck’s manner in which he retired. YOU brought that up, not I. I judge solely on stats side by side. And some general observations regarding passion. And by saying that, I don’t mean that Luck had zero passion, to make it and play in the NFL, everyone has it to some degree. Rivers was just way more over powering and it showed. 

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7 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I said csmopar despises him, I have read a lot of previous posts about Luck. I didn't say you did. You giving him a trophy I just found comical.

Find me one post where I said I despise him. I don’t. I’m just not all Googly eyed and teenage puppy lust over him. I’m brutally honest about it. and yeah, I will continue to consider him a quitter. Because that’s exactly what he did, quit. 
 

Did luck have some good years, yes. Some awesome highlights, sure. But let’s be real, he accomplished very little except putting a crappy runner up banner in our stadium. That doesn’t mean I despise him, I’m simply stating fact. Honestly, I was surprised that Wentz actually put up very similar numbers as Luck. And that’s saying something in and of itself. 

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7 hours ago, csmopar said:

Find me one post where I said I despise him. I don’t. I’m just not all Googly eyed and teenage puppy lust over him. I’m brutally honest about it. and yeah, I will continue to consider him a quitter. Because that’s exactly what he did, quit. 
 

Did luck have some good years, yes. Some awesome highlights, sure. But let’s be real, he accomplished very little except putting a crappy runner up banner in our stadium. That doesn’t mean I despise him, I’m simply stating fact. Honestly, I was surprised that Wentz actually put up very similar numbers as Luck. And that’s saying something in and of itself. 

If Wentz is anywhere near as great as Luck was we will win a SB with the Coach, O.Line, and run game we have now. Until a QB comes in here and gives us 3 years in a row of 11-5 and takes us to an AFC Title Game like Luck did then people can criticize Luck for not winning a SB. Haven't seen it yet since Peyton Manning had all those years of winning 12 games and winning a SB. Peyton is arguably the GOAT so it is what it is. I hated the way the way Luck quit/retired, I think we all did but he had a very good career here IMO and some great moments. I think he deserves to be in the ROH, do you? If you answer no then I know where you really stand because Luck was better than Harbaugh and Harbaugh is in the ROH. I am a Harbaugh fan, have his autograph meeting him but Luck was better, and I am sure Harbaugh would say so himself.

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2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

 I think he deserves to be in the ROH, do you? If you answer no then I know where you really stand because Luck was better than Harbaugh and Harbaugh is in the ROH. I am a Harbaugh fan, have his autograph meeting him but Luck was better, and I am sure Harbaugh would say so himself.

Irsay will likely put Luck in there. And I understand why he'll do it too, to give fans a chance to send Luck off properly this time.

 

But no I don't think he should be in there, at least not before guys like Tarik Glenn, Bob Sanders and Gary Bracket. I would even put Antoine Beatha and Howard Mudd and Tom Moore in there before Luck.  Honestly, what I'd like to see is the entire 2006/2007 Superbowl Team all get a single team banner in the RoH because they deserve it. All that should happen before Luck. Yes, Luck carried this team for 3 years to 11-5. And to the AFCCG.  RG3 carried his team to the Superbowl. Does he deserve to be in the HoF or Washington's ROH? What about Nick Foles? Its not much different in terms of impacts that those guys made on their respective teams.

And for the record, I don't think Harbaugh measures up enough to be there either and I like Jim, a lot. He really is what started putting this franchise on the road to respectability. Which is really why he's in there really. The team hadn't been to back to back playoffs in its history in Indy at that point. Then he ultimately gave us a losing season that got us the GOAT QB ever. 

 

So yeah, while Luck is statistically better, his stats sadly had the unfortunate circumstance of following in the foot steps of the Peyton and 2 Super bowl runs and over a decade of 10+ wins. Luck's impact to the team and its history is felt less in part due to that.   If the roles were reversed and Luck had played before Manning, then I could see him getting in.  But Manning and his fellow HoF teammates raised the bar significantly for future players to get in to that.  At least in my opinion. 

 

Combine that with the fact that he ultimately left his team at the last second in scramble mode right before the season, nothing will change that fact, no matter how right or respectful the choice itself was, its a huge mark on his record. Now how large that mark is to Irsay, we don't know. But I'll end this with saying I do think Irsay will put him in it. Even if he shouldn't.

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8 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Irsay will likely put Luck in there. And I understand why he'll do it too, to give fans a chance to send Luck off properly this time.

 

But no I don't think he should be in there, at least not before guys like Tarik Glenn, Bob Sanders and Gary Bracket. I would even put Antoine Beatha and Howard Mudd and Tom Moore in there before Luck.  Honestly, what I'd like to see is the entire 2006/2007 Superbowl Team all get a single team banner in the RoH because they deserve it. All that should happen before Luck. Yes, Luck carried this team for 3 years to 11-5. And to the AFCCG.  RG3 carried his team to the Superbowl. Does he deserve to be in the HoF or Washington's ROH? What about Nick Foles? Its not much different in terms of impacts that those guys made on their respective teams.

And for the record, I don't think Harbaugh measures up enough to be there either and I like Jim, a lot. He really is what started putting this franchise on the road to respectability. Which is really why he's in there really. The team hadn't been to back to back playoffs in its history in Indy at that point. Then he ultimately gave us a losing season that got us the GOAT QB ever. 

 

So yeah, while Luck is statistically better, his stats sadly had the unfortunate circumstance of following in the foot steps of the Peyton and 2 Super bowl runs and over a decade of 10+ wins. Luck's impact to the team and its history is felt less in part due to that.   If the roles were reversed and Luck had played before Manning, then I could see him getting in.  But Manning and his fellow HoF teammates raised the bar significantly for future players to get in to that.  At least in my opinion. 

 

Combine that with the fact that he ultimately left his team at the last second in scramble mode right before the season, nothing will change that fact, no matter how right or respectful the choice itself was, its a huge mark on his record. Now how large that mark is to Irsay, we don't know. But I'll end this with saying I do think Irsay will put him in it. Even if he shouldn't.

RG3 didn't take the skins to a superbowl. 

 

The rest is crazy talk

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15 hours ago, tvturner said:

There's nothing that Wentz does better than Rivers and Luck

 

Luck was one of the few true elite QBs in the league and people seem to forget the talent he had because they don't like the way he went out

 

 

They also didn't see the "true" Luck for years and years due to injury and subsequent erosion of arm talent. 

I don't love how the end went down and will stick up for people to be unhappy about it to a point, but really the thing is that it's just kinda sad that this didn't work out at historic level. Top shelf QBs don't get ran off the spot like that, ever.  

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On 3/28/2021 at 11:01 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

There are actually some that don't think Rivers is a Hall of Famer, @Myles is one of them in here. It was cute how when you quoted me you left the word carried out lmao .  Rivers is no doubt a Hall of Famer so we agree 100% on that.

I should clarify this.   I think he will be in the HOF.

I just wouldn't put him in.   I wouldn't have put many, who are in, in the HOF.   That's just a "me" thing.   I wish the HOF was much pickier.   The best of the best of the best.  It's a bit loose now.  Have a long good career and you are probably going to get in.   Ryan and Stafford will probably get in.   I wouldn't let either one of them in if it were my choice.   

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On 3/29/2021 at 3:19 PM, Myles said:

I should clarify this.   I think he will be in the HOF.

I just wouldn't put him in.   I wouldn't have put many, who are in, in the HOF.   That's just a "me" thing.   I wish the HOF was much pickier.   The best of the best of the best.  It's a bit loose now.  Have a long good career and you are probably going to get in.   Ryan and Stafford will probably get in.   I wouldn't let either one of them in if it were my choice.   

I don’t know if either Ryan or Stafford get in, but we’ll see. They both have longevity & stats, and Ryan did play in a Superbowl but that historic collapse in said SB certainly won’t help his chances: if the Falcons score so much as a field goal in the 2nd half of that game, they’re Champions and then it’s a much different discussion. Overall “Matty Ice” is 4-6 in the postseason, (Rivers is 5-7, so Ryan could surpass him there with some luck) and he’s 13 years into his career.  If he only plays a few more seasons, he may not make the playoffs again, and I don’t think he’s done enough to get into Canton at this point.

 

Stafford might have a better chance, if he does real well with the Rams. He’s only been in the league 1 year less than Ryan, but has missed so much time that he’s more than 10,000 passing yards and about 50 touchdown passes behind Ryan, and is currently 0 for 3 in the postseason so he’d need to light it up in LA for a good 4 – 5 year stretch to have a realistic chance, IMO.

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17 hours ago, NDSU_Guy said:

RE: Intelligence

 

Wentz had the highest wonderlic of the 3 (40).

Wentz has never seen a grade below "A" throughout his entire education.

 

He is pretty smart for a human.

No doubt he is extremely academic. I hope he continues to stay humble as well. Usually when a person has a combination of those two character traits good things will happen. 

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