T.Y. coming back (one year deal)

[DoubleE Colt]

Personally I'm not overly familiar with how these things work out but anyone think Ballard would have had his nose put out of joint by Irsay altering his offer or then Hilton announcing to the public that's what happened?! Like I say I'm not too familiar maybe owners are more involved than I realise, they part with the money after all. 

 

[BlueShoe]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

Some Ravens guys are saying they offered three years, $16m. TY says they offered him more to sign than he'll get for all of 2021 from the Colts. I'm thinking the truth is somewhere in between.

 

Purely my conjecture, sounds like maybe they were doing a two year offer with a voidable third year, at $16m total. I can't imagine TY would have been considering them at a little over $5m/year, and he said he wanted a 1-2 year deal.  They weren't giving him $8-10m upfront on a three year, $16m deal. So I assume it was a two year deal, something around $8-10m signing bonus, spread out over three seasons. JMO.

 

TY also said that after he spoke with Irsay, the Colts came up to his number. If the Colts were offering one year, $6m, that's still better than three years, $16m in a depressed market. I think he also said they came up a couple million, so that probably puts their initial offer somewhere around $7-8m for one year. Still better than three years, $16m. 

 

I'm thinking the Colts initial offer to TY was about as good as what he was offered on the open market, and maybe the final sweetener put it over the top. 

I think the Ravens offered him somewhere around 30 million over 3 years with 10-15 million guaranteed. I do agree the Ravens would have given themselves an easy out after 2 years. He is 31 years old. But I think the added incentives are what put the Colts offer on par with the Ravens offer (per year average). 

If I was a receiver, man I would not want to go to Baltimore though. That place is full of wide receiver skeletons. That’d be like Death Row for a receiver. Dead Receiver Walking. LOL

 

I wonder how they try to sell a receiver to go there. “Come to Ravensville, where you can block for our running backs and our quarterback all day long. You don’t even need good hands.”

 

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

I think the Ravens offered him somewhere around 30 million over 3 years with 10-15 million guaranteed. I do agree the Ravens would have given themselves an easy out after 2 years. He is 31 years old. But I think the added incentives are what put the Colts offer on par with the Ravens offer (per year average). 

If I was a receiver, man I would not want to go to Baltimore though. That place is full of wide receiver skeletons. That’d be like Death Row for a receiver. Dead Receiver Walking. LOL

 

I wonder how they try to sell a receiver to go there. “Come to Ravensville, where you can block for our running backs and our quarterback all day long. You don’t even have to have good hands.”

 

Where are you seeing 3 years 30 million?

[BlueShoe]

12 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Where are you seeing 3 years 30 million?

Somewhere around 30 million over 3 years is my guess. That’s based on what I think his market value is and his reaction to the offer. 

[TonyBungee]

I’m guessing the offer was more like 2 years, 20 million, 11 guaranteed. 

[Superman]

18 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

I think the Ravens offered him somewhere around 30 million over 3 years with 10-15 million guaranteed. I do agree the Ravens would have given themselves an easy out after 2 years. He is 31 years old. But I think the added incentives are what put the Colts offer on par with the Ravens offer (per year average). 

If I was a receiver, man I would not want to go to Baltimore though. That place is full of wide receiver skeletons. That’d be like Death Row for a receiver. Dead Receiver Walking. LOL

 

I wonder how they try to sell a receiver to go there. “Come to Ravensville, where you can block for our running backs and our quarterback all day long. You don’t even need good hands.”

 

 

I'm only seeing one report that offers a number for what the Ravens offered, and it's supposedly three years, $16m. That report might be useless, but it's what I used to form those assumptions I posted. 

 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/nonsense-sp-ravens-ty-hilton-colts-20210325-32l2ljbuvbdpfmpdzihfcvzd6u-story.html

 

If I were a receiver, Baltimore would not be my first pick. But the idea that Hilton would turn down three years, $30m is way out there.

[Thebrashandthebold]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Did you watch the video I shared earlier?   He still gets separation

I sure haven't seen it in the last two years. But, I hope you are right. I think 500 yards and a couple of TDs is about all one should expect. We can certainly hope for better and I have no trouble with him being a nostalgia signing. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

At this point Hilton has made a lot of money. If the guarantees in the Ravens deal was say 3 million more when your someone who has already made millions why would you want to leave your home.  It doesn’t really matter if it was for more then one year. It’s was about the guarantees.  Hilton’s interview was hillarious. Pat always brings the best out of people he interviews and it doesn’t hurt they were teammates.

 

Ravens have had a couple WR decide to play elsewhere for less money. Says a lot about their offense and Jackson.

 

With the weapons we have TY just needs  to be a piece of the puzzle.

[BlueShoe]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm only seeing one report that offers a number for what the Ravens offered, and it's supposedly three years, $16m. That report might be useless, but it's what I used to form those assumptions I posted. 

 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/nonsense-sp-ravens-ty-hilton-colts-20210325-32l2ljbuvbdpfmpdzihfcvzd6u-story.html

 

If I were a receiver, Baltimore would not be my first pick. But the idea that Hilton would turn down three years, $30m is way out there.

Sorry I am not buying that offer reported by the Baltimore Sun. I’m not a close friend, but I’ve hung out with TY, and it’s not in his character to exaggerate things. He is actually a very humble person. 
 

History tells us that at the age of 32, Desean Jackson signed a 3 year deal at 27.9 million. At 33, Emmanuel Sanders signed a 2 year deal worth 24 million. At 29, Randall Cobb signed a 3 year deal for 27 million.... I’d put TYs market value somewhere around that. 
 

And the reason I believe TY would turn that deal down and go with the Colts offer, is because it’s really only a 2 year deal. Plus playing in Baltimore would absolutely kill his future market value. 
 

By staying in Indy, TY gives himself the opportunity to sign the exact same deal next year with the Colts. And we could possibly rinse and repeat this deal until he retires. We also cannot overlook just how bright the Colts future looks right now. Where does TY have a better chance of winning. What would make his life better?

 

TY is staying with what he knows, in a city that loves him, Jim Irsay loves him, he is a great fit in the locker room... And he gets to play the Reggie role for Carson (much like Reggie did with Andrew). 
 

I think in the end, this could possibly cost him a couple of million, over the next couple of years. However, he will be much happier and also have a potential market value at 33 years old, which could earn him more money long-term. I think Reggie helped him understand all of this.  
 

But that’s just the way the dots most logically connect, in my mind. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

21 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm only seeing one report that offers a number for what the Ravens offered, and it's supposedly three years, $16m. That report might be useless, but it's what I used to form those assumptions I posted. 

 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/nonsense-sp-ravens-ty-hilton-colts-20210325-32l2ljbuvbdpfmpdzihfcvzd6u-story.html

 

If I were a receiver, Baltimore would not be my first pick. But the idea that Hilton would turn down three years, $30m is way out there.

3 years for 16 Mill, man the Ravens were trying to go real cheap and pull a fleece on TY. If that was the offer, TY had to be laughing. My thinking was that TY was still worth 8 Mill a yr or so, we went 10 which I am ok with. With our WR situation and the mainstay TY has been here, bringing him back was needed. I preferred him over Watkins, TY knows the coach and system well and is a trueColt.

[Indyfan4life]

27 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I sure haven't seen it in the last two years. But, I hope you are right. I think 500 yards and a couple of TDs is about all one should expect. We can certainly hope for better and I have no trouble with him being a nostalgia signing. 

Do you actually think about what you say before you post it? Or do you just talk type out things hoping it makes sense?

[Thebrashandthebold]

1 minute ago, Indyfan4life said:

Do you actually think about what you say before you post it? Or do you just talk type out things hoping it makes sense?

Yes, I do. I have never been a big TY fan in his best years because he was easy for opponents to shut down in important games. Now that he is older and slower, I just don't see the point. Ballard would have let him walk and that was the right thing to do. But, I will give Irsay his nostalgia signing if it makes him happy.

[Indyfan4life]

2 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

Yes, I do. I have never been a big TY fan in his best years because he was easy for opponents to shut down in important games. Now that he is older and slower, I just don't see the point. Ballard would have let him walk and that was the right thing to do. But, I will give Irsay his nostalgia signing if it makes him happy.

"Nostalgia signing" The entire team, along with the staff and anyone with eyes are happy Hilton is back. As I said, he was 238 yards away from 1K last season with Rivers not giving him the ball until the end of the year. You don't think having him on the field is important for Pittman or anyone else for that matter? Yeah, he's not TY of 2012, but what do you expect? I can't wait to see Hilton this season with Wentz throwing him the ball and you to eat that big fat crow.

[Colt.45]

8 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

Yes, I do. I have never been a big TY fan in his best years because he was easy for opponents to shut down in important games. Now that he is older and slower, I just don't see the point. Ballard would have let him walk and that was the right thing to do. But, I will give Irsay his nostalgia signing if it makes him happy.

Disagree. You're labeling TY with the same label some folks used on Marvin i.e. he was easy to shut down in big games.

If you say that, that's fine, but you cannot then say the WR core is unimpressive AFTER we saw Pittman put up a monster game in the playoffs. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

Yes, I do. I have never been a big TY fan in his best years because he was easy for opponents to shut down in important games. Now that he is older and slower, I just don't see the point. Ballard would have let him walk and that was the right thing to do. But, I will give Irsay his nostalgia signing if it makes him happy.

You say important games?? You do realize big games are playoff games right? In the 2013 Wildcard playoff game vs the Chiefs, TY had 13 Rec for 224 Yards and 2 TD's. In the 2014 Divisional Round playoff game at Denver, TY had 4 Rec for 72 Yards - not big numbers but had 2 crucial catches to help seal the game. At Houston in the 2018 Wildcard game he had a good game and even wore a clown mask in doing so. I think you type/post off the wall stuff just to get a puzzling response from people. It is working much like Skip Bayless does. IMO you don't do much homework before you post.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, BlueShoe said:

I think the Ravens offered him somewhere around 30 million over 3 years with 10-15 million guaranteed. I do agree the Ravens would have given themselves an easy out after 2 years. He is 31 years old. But I think the added incentives are what put the Colts offer on par with the Ravens offer (per year average). 

If I was a receiver, man I would not want to go to Baltimore though. That place is full of wide receiver skeletons. That’d be like Death Row for a receiver. Dead Receiver Walking. LOL

 

I wonder how they try to sell a receiver to go there. “Come to Ravensville, where you can block for our running backs and our quarterback all day long. You don’t even need good hands.”

 

No way. Seems very unlikely that TY would turn down a 3-year version of the contract the Colts gave him...with more gtd money.

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I sure haven't seen it in the last two years. But, I hope you are right. I think 500 yards and a couple of TDs is about all one should expect. We can certainly hope for better and I have no trouble with him being a nostalgia signing. 

So you didn't see the video then?    

 

The fact you think Cam is great tells me about your player evaluations

[BlueShoe]

36 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

No way. Seems very unlikely that TY would turn down a 3-year version of the contract the Colts gave him...with more gtd money.

It actually adds up perfectly to me. 
 

He said he turned down a LOT more money from Baltimore at signing than the Colts we’re going to pay him on the entire 1 year contract he signed with the Colts. 

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, BlueShoe said:

Somewhere around 30 million over 3 years is my guess. That’s based on what I think his market value is and his reaction to the offer. 

So based on nothing

[shasta519]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

It actually adds up perfectly to me. 
 

He said he turned down a LOT more money from Baltimore at signing than the Colts we’re going to pay him on the entire contract 1 year contract he signed with the Colts. 

A lot more money could be a few million though. $20M is a huge difference.
 

If he had signed the Colts deal early in FA...sure. But he wanted that long and the best the Colts gave him was 1/3 of the other offer?

 

Not saying you are wrong...just that I can’t believe that is the case.

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

So based on nothing

History tells us that at the age of 32, Desean Jackson signed a 3 year deal at 27.9 million. At 33, Emmanuel Sanders signed a 2 year deal worth 24 million. At 29, Randall Cobb signed a 3 year deal for 27 million.... I’d put TYs market value somewhere around that. 

 

I wouldn’t call that based on nothing. 

[shasta519]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

So based on nothing

WR market was weird too. 

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, shasta519 said:

A lot more money could be a few million though. $20M is a huge difference.
 

If he had signed the Colts deal early in FA...sure. But he wanted that long and the best the Colts gave him was 1/3 of the other offer?

 

Not saying you are wrong...just that I can’t believe that is the case.

If he did get a 30 million offer for 3 years, he probably would have never seen the 3rd year (which is typically where a good portion of the money is). 

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

History tells us that at the age of 32, Desean Jackson signed a 3 year deal at 27.9 million. At 33, Emmanuel Sanders signed a 2 year deal worth 24 million. At 29, Randall Cobb signed a 3 year deal for 27 million.... I’d put TYs market value somewhere around that. 

 

I wouldn’t call that based on nothing. 

All those guys took those contracts.   No way TY turned down that much bigger of a contract.    He said he gave Irsay a number and they got there.    That number isn't close to what you're speculating 

[BlueShoe]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

All those guys took those contracts.   No way TY turned down that much bigger of a contract.    He said he gave Irsay a number and they got there.    That number isn't close to what you're speculating 

It’s not a bigger contract. TY still has the opportunity to make the same amount (or close to the same amount) as he would have if he signed a 3 year deal for 30 million with Baltimore. I cannot draw it in pictures any better for you man.  

[Thebrashandthebold]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

So you didn't see the video then?    

 

The fact you think Cam is great tells me about your player evaluations

I don't know about "great" but I think he will be very good and I think the Pats have a better season than the Colts and I won't be a bit surprised if Cam has a better year than Wentz.

[Thebrashandthebold]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You say important games?? You do realize big games are playoff games right? In the 2013 Wildcard playoff game vs the Chiefs, TY had 13 Rec for 224 Yards and 2 TD's. In the 2014 Divisional Round playoff game at Denver, TY had 4 Rec for 72 Yards - not big numbers but had 2 crucial catches to help seal the game. At Houston in the 2018 Wildcard game he had a good game and even wore a clown mask in doing so. I think you type/post off the wall stuff just to get a puzzling response from people. It is working much like Skip Bayless does. IMO you don't do much homework before you post.

Each to his own. 

1 hour ago, Colt.45 said:

Disagree. You're labeling TY with the same label some folks used on Marvin i.e. he was easy to shut down in big games.

If you say that, that's fine, but you cannot then say the WR core is unimpressive AFTER we saw Pittman put up a monster game in the playoffs. 

One game. This receiving group is horrid.

[Thebrashandthebold]

1 hour ago, Indyfan4life said:

"Nostalgia signing" The entire team, along with the staff and anyone with eyes are happy Hilton is back. As I said, he was 238 yards away from 1K last season with Rivers not giving him the ball until the end of the year. You don't think having him on the field is important for Pittman or anyone else for that matter? Yeah, he's not TY of 2012, but what do you expect? I can't wait to see Hilton this season with Wentz throwing him the ball and you to eat that big fat crow.

Which I would do gladly but I don't expect that to happen. More likely is injuries and just not getting the job done but I save some salt for that crow just in case.

 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

Sorry I am not buying that offer reported by the Baltimore Sun. I’m not a close friend, but I’ve hung out with TY, and it’s not in his character to exaggerate things. He is actually a very humble person. 

 

As I said, I think the truth is somewhere in between. But three years, $30m doesn't sound like anything Hilton would have passed on, just being realistic. 

 

Quote

History tells us that at the age of 32, Desean Jackson signed a 3 year deal at 27.9 million. At 33, Emmanuel Sanders signed a 2 year deal worth 24 million. At 29, Randall Cobb signed a 3 year deal for 27 million.... I’d put TYs market value somewhere around that. 

 

Most of that history is irrelevant to the 2021 free agency period, especially as it relates to 30+ year old receivers.

 

I believe Hilton when he says he turned down Day 1 money that would have been more than his 2021 Colts salary will be. That's how I got to a two years, $16m, with a voidable third year. It's the only way to reconcile the Baltimore report with Hilton's comments. And like I said, that report could be false, and Hilton could be exaggerating. But I'm confident the Ravens made a good offer, and three years, $16m isn't good.

 

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Hilton re-signed and will play for Indy in 2021, which is what I wanted, what the Colts wanted, and what he wanted. 

[jvan1973]

27 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I don't know about "great" but I think he will be very good and I think the Pats have a better season than the Colts and I won't be a bit surprised if Cam has a better year than Wentz.

Tys highlights from 2020 are better than cams.    Your talent evaluation is on par with Moosejawcolt 

[TheUnshuffler]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

So you didn't see the video then?    

 

The fact you think Cam is great tells me about your player evaluations

 

1 hour ago, Indyfan4life said:

"Nostalgia signing" The entire team, along with the staff and anyone with eyes are happy Hilton is back. As I said, he was 238 yards away from 1K last season with Rivers not giving him the ball until the end of the year. You don't think having him on the field is important for Pittman or anyone else for that matter? Yeah, he's not TY of 2012, but what do you expect? I can't wait to see Hilton this season with Wentz throwing him the ball and you to eat that big fat crow.

 

1 hour ago, Colt.45 said:

Disagree. You're labeling TY with the same label some folks used on Marvin i.e. he was easy to shut down in big games.

If you say that, that's fine, but you cannot then say the WR core is unimpressive AFTER we saw Pittman put up a monster game in the playoffs. 

95% sure the guy you’re all replying to is a Pats fan trolling this board.

 

Look at his posts they’re almost exclusively praising how good the Pats/Newton will be next season, how the Colts will be worse/not make the playoffs or as in this thread saying how TY is washed up/was never any good in the first place.

I don’t mind alternative views, in fact well reasoned opinions that go against the grain can often be the most insightful and interesting views out there. 

 

Not trying to derail this thread but you know what they say, if it walks like a duck....

 

 

[BlueShoe]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

As I said, I think the truth is somewhere in between. But three years, $30m doesn't sound like anything Hilton would have passed on, just being realistic. 

 

 

Most of that history is irrelevant to the 2021 free agency period, especially as it relates to 30+ year old receivers.

 

I believe Hilton when he says he turned down Day 1 money that would have been more than his 2021 Colts salary will be. That's how I got to a two years, $16m, with a voidable third year. It's the only way to reconcile the Baltimore report with Hilton's comments. And like I said, that report could be false, and Hilton could be exaggerating. But I'm confident the Ravens made a good offer, and three years, $16m isn't good.

 

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Hilton re-signed and will play for Indy in 2021, which is what I wanted, what the Colts wanted, and what he wanted. 

Actually we could be saying close to the same thing. Using your numbers, if the third year was voidable and on paper worth 10 million then the entire deal would be 3 years at 26 million. My initial gut feeling was 3 years at 27 million, and I said somewhere around 3 years and 30 million because TY seemed surprised by the offer. However, he could have been surprised by the guaranteed money. Maybe 10-15 million of the first 2 years was guaranteed. And we both know that could be done several ways; by way of signing bonus or guaranteed bonuses (roster, workout, and so on) in 21 or 22. 

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, TheUnshuffler said:

 

 

95% sure the guy you’re all replying to is a Pats fan trolling this board.

 

Look at his posts they’re almost exclusively praising how good the Pats/Newton will be next season, how the Colts will be worse/not make the playoffs or as in this thread saying how TY is washed up/was never any good in the first place.

I don’t mind alternative views, in fact well reasoned opinions that go against the grain can often be the most insightful and interesting views out there. 

 

Not trying to derail this thread but you know what they say, if it walks like a duck....

 

 

I agree

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

Actually we could be saying close to the same thing. Using your numbers, if the third year was voidable and on paper worth 10 million then the entire deal would be 3 years at 26 million. My initial gut was 3 years at 27 million, and I said somewhere around 3 years and 30 million because TY seemed surprised by the offer. However, he could have been surprised by the guaranteed money. Maybe 10-15 million of the first 2 years was guaranteed. And we both know that could be done several ways; by way of signing bonus or guaranteed bonuses (roster, workout, and so on) in 21 or 22. 

Why speculate on details that you couldn't possibly know?

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Why speculate on details that you couldn't possibly know?

Because this a Colts message board where people talk about the Colts. Most of what happens on this board is speculation. And you’re not my boss and won’t tell me what I can and cannot talk about.  

 

Now that we have that part settled and Very Clear, my logic adds up and is very plausible. Do you have anything of substance to actually offer on the subject? I’d be willing to entertain your insights. If all you have to add is that TY would not pass on that deal, well he clearly did so what else do you have?  
 

 

[ojsglove]

Who cares?  He's coming back, move on 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, TheUnshuffler said:

 

 

95% sure the guy you’re all replying to is a Pats fan trolling this board.

 

Look at his posts they’re almost exclusively praising how good the Pats/Newton will be next season, how the Colts will be worse/not make the playoffs or as in this thread saying how TY is washed up/was never any good in the first place.

I don’t mind alternative views, in fact well reasoned opinions that go against the grain can often be the most insightful and interesting views out there. 

 

Not trying to derail this thread but you know what they say, if it walks like a duck....

 

 

I wasn't going to say anything because I didn't want to stir anything up but I agree 100%. I was thinking that a few days ago. We still get the occasional Pats fans in here that disguise themselves to bash the Colts anyway they can  . There are a couple of Pats fans in here that are cool though so not all are bad. Many still look at the rivalry we had with them when we had Peyton, Peyton vs Brady and some are still fuming about deflategate stemming from our AFC Title Game vs them in 2014. It is what it is. It's entertaining in some ways.

[smittywerb]

On 3/24/2021 at 8:29 PM, TimetobringDfence! said:

Pittman will blossom. That catch he almost made against Buffalo showed he's all in for the game. 

 

He has to and I think he will.  He had a strong showing when he came back.  But once again he has to.  TY is dangerous still but he needs help.  They double him with a corner and safety because no one else can break from their man.  Hopefully a blossoming MPJ and healthy weapon in PC he can get that help.  Hopefully we start lining up Hines on the outside to create mismatches also. 

 

Only thing I'm concerned about right now is WR depth (as long as MPJ and PC shine) and TE.  If we don't have a TE that can get those LB'ers out of position our passing AND rushing is going to suffer.  

 

I'd feel better if Ballard brings in another WR and TE.

[rockywoj]

I am very happy that TY got the contract to come back.  Something Reggie was denied by Grigson when he wanted one last year.  

[Colt.45]

25 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

I am very happy that TY got the contract to come back.  Something Reggie was denied by Grigson when he wanted one last year.  

We don't need to pile on Grigson. Sure he was an arrogant so and so, and he bears a big portion of responsibility for #12 leaving the game BUT he did move up to draft Hilton when most Colts fans had no idea who TY was.

Also, lets not act like TY now is what Reggie was back then. TY can still arguably be the Colts #1 or 2. Reggie at that point was washed and retirement was likely the right call.