T.Y. coming back (one year deal)

[GoColts8818]

35 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I skimmed through most of the posts and I really only seen 1 person complaining about this, I may have missed 1 or 2 others but overall most everyone is happy with this. I am ok with the 10 Mill part as well because I didn't think he would sign anywhere for less than 8 anyway. In a perfect world a 2 yr deal for 16 Mill would've been perfect but I am just glad TY is back.

As per normal those that don’t like it are in the minority but feel like that have to comment on every happy post to make it seem like people are more upset than they are.  

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

As of now going by our WR room, Pittman is the only WR I can see maybe having more yards and he is under a rookie contract which is great. I hope Pittman does break out being that it is yr 2 for him. If TY plays at least 14 games I can see him getting 900 yards. Health is the key.

If Game 1 in 2020 was any indication, Campbell will have a large roll. He had the same amount of targets as TY, and more yards. That assumes he can stay healthy, which is a big if. TY staying healthy is also a decent "if" too. 

 

I can easily see either Pittman or Campbell having more. And even with Campbell out last year at slot, and Pittman coming on at X, Pascal floated between X and slot and had close to TY's total. Pascal had more yards than TY in 19. And now that Hines won't have to play RB2, he could get a lot more targets.

 

Then consider that TY is another year older now. Not saying TY is not capable of 900, but IMO he's limited to a last cut possession guy, and it might be hard attain 900 unless Reich opens things up a bit.

[GoColts8818]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

If Game 1 in 2020 was any indication, Campbell will have a large roll. He had the same amount of targets as TY, and more yards. That assumes he can stay healthy, which is a big if. TY staying healthy is also a decent "if" too. 

 

I can easily see either Pittman or Campbell having more. And even with Campbell out last year at slot, and Pittman coming on at X, Pascal floated between X and slot and had close to TY's total. Pascal had more yards than TY in 19. And now that Hines won't have to play RB2, he could get a lot more targets.

 

Then consider that TY is another year older now. Not saying TY is not capable of 900, but IMO he's limited to a last cut possession guy, and it might be hard attain 900 unless Reich opens things up a bit.

I am excited to see Campbell this year but this is make or break for him.  If he gets hurt again I think the Colts look at the WR position without him in the future.  
 

I think Hilton was brought back for one year because they don’t think Pittman is ready to be a one (and they are right) but they are hoping he grows into the role over the course of the season.  

[cbear]

I still believe that if healthy, Parris could be a number 1 himself. I will allow myself to dream of him and Pittman manning those positions for years to come!

[AKB]

very happy hilton is back.

 

also guys lets stop pretending hines is a slwr.

 

i love hines, but cmon..

[John Waylon]

So the situation just stays the same then...

[AKB]

super excited about pitman

excited about campbell

excited about TY possible cementing his legacy. 

 

Also excited about the draft, we are gonna go LT rd 1, DE rd 2

 

Probably get a value skill player at 4, (as ballard usually does.)

 

Also Wentz is gonna help a lot with mobility. Rivers was good, but we all know he needed to be able to move a little better. Also Mack is back. 

 

Remember everyone telling me Siranni wearing 25 on his hat didnt matter? Yeah ok. 

 

TY coming back for less? Just shows how much faith and respect the players have in this staff Reich has built. Look at the steelers and how their foul culture leads to great talents failing every year. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

31 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

If Game 1 in 2020 was any indication, Campbell will have a large roll. He had the same amount of targets as TY, and more yards. That assumes he can stay healthy, which is a big if. TY staying healthy is also a decent "if" too. 

 

I can easily see either Pittman or Campbell having more. And even with Campbell out last year at slot, and Pittman coming on at X, Pascal floated between X and slot and had close to TY's total. Pascal had more yards than TY in 19. And now that Hines won't have to play RB2, he could get a lot more targets.

 

Then consider that TY is another year older now. Not saying TY is not capable of 900, but IMO he's limited to a last cut possession guy, and it might be hard attain 900 unless Reich opens things up a bit.

It also depends on too how much we run the ball. TY did have 762 last season - above average IMO, being a year older I don't think will factor in a lot if he can stay healthy, but that is a big 'IF'. Campbell if healthy could take away from TY's production as well which you pointed out. 900 is doable for TY but that could be his ceiling with all factors considering. 

[OhioColt]

Hilton thrived in the short to intermediate range which will be his bread and butter reception target area again this season.  Would be nice for the Colts to have a deep ball threat receiver.  Too bad we don't have a bunch of First Round draft picks at our disposal.

[EastStreet]

34 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I am excited to see Campbell this year but this is make or break for him.  If he gets hurt again I think the Colts look at the WR position without him in the future.  
 

I think Hilton was brought back for one year because they don’t think Pittman is ready to be a one (and they are right) but they are hoping he grows into the role over the course of the season.  

I wouldn't say it's truly a make or break year for Campbell. He'll still be on a rook deal in 22. If he gets hurt again, doubt we'd cut him, or give up on him. He'd just be another guy we all hope gets it together, once again lol. I think originally, based on what FR and CB said, they were looking for Campbell to start out in the slot, and then move out to Z, and likely replace TY. I still think that holds true, it's just he's been really unlucky with unrelated injuries. But yes, another injury riddled year, unrelated or not to previous injuries, will temper the expectations down even more.

 

I really hope they never look at Pittman as a one. At least not in Frank's O. If they do, that would mean were a very heavy possession offense, and very conservative. Now if Frank opens things up a bit, and starts using Pittman in the deep game, then yes, I could see him as maybe a true #1. Xs in general are rarely #1s unless the offense if very heavy on short possession, or if the X is also a dynamic downfield threat in a more open O. Not saying Pittman can't be a guy like that, it's just I don't think he has the top end speed, and I don't see Frank using him deep a bunch.

 

 

[AKB]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I wouldn't say it's truly a make or break year for Campbell. He'll still be on a rook deal in 22. If he gets hurt again, doubt we'd cut him, or give up on him. He'd just be another guy we all hope gets it together, once again lol. I think originally, based on what FR and CB said, they were looking for Campbell to start out in the slot, and then move out to Z, and likely replace TY. I still think that holds true, it's just he's been really unlucky with unrelated injuries. But yes, another injury riddled year, unrelated or not to previous injuries, will temper the expectations down even more.

 

I really hope they never look at Pittman as a one. At least not in Frank's O. If they do, that would mean were a very heavy possession offense, and very conservative. Now if Frank opens things up a bit, and starts using Pittman in the deep game, then yes, I could see him as maybe a true #1. Xs in general are rarely #1s unless the offense if very heavy on short possession, or if the X is also a dynamic downfield threat in a more open O. Not saying Pittman can't be a guy like that, it's just I don't think he has the top end speed, and I don't see Frank using him deep a bunch.

 

 

You don't think Pitman can be a 1? 

 

Keep that same energy. 

[EastStreet]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It also depends on too how much we run the ball. TY did have 762 last season - above average IMO, being a year older I don't think will factor in a lot if he can stay healthy, but that is a big 'IF'. Campbell if healthy could take away from TY's production as well which you pointed out. 900 is doable for TY but that could be his ceiling with all factors considering. 

Just spit balling, but if Campbell and Pittman stay healthy, I'd guestimate TY somewhere between 500-800.

 

As far a how much we run the ball, I'd bet we slow roll Wentz early, and run it a ton. That plan will likely work fine against bad teams, but once we get down, the plan gets tossed. I just hope Wentz is quick in returning to form. I think we have more than enough receiving talent at RB and TE groups to be great in the short passing game. Not sure if I'd be able to handle another JB-like 2019 though.

[Lancer1]

7 hours ago, Drew2975 said:

This is my first post on the colts forums and I hope I do not embarrass myself with hyperbole.That being said... 

 

Fanatics of teams are defined as a  enthusiastic devotee or a ardent admirer. 

 

In the Era of free agency and player empowerment a player spending their entire (or even majority of) career has become exceedingly rare. 

 

TY Hilton reportedly took less money to remain with OUR team, the Indianapolis Colts.  

 

In a Era of negativity, doubt,and incredulousness we should celebrate this moment and TY for doing what is becoming more rare in sports and culture in general. And that is loyalty to the team, city, and fans. 

 

TY may not have the year some fans want from him, and may exceed what others imagine. 

 

But that isn't what today is about. We should celebrate a player that has given us so many great sports memories over so many years. 

 

A player that more than likely turned down millions of dollars to remain with OUR team. 

 

I would like to say that I would do the same for my team. But if I am being completely honest, with millions of dollars on the line, I don't know if I would have done the same. I would hope we ALL can agree it would be a heavy choice no matter the outcome. 

 

Its my sincere hope that we show him the loyalty and appreciation he showed the fans today. 

 

I have always been a TY fan, but today I thank him for taking the the road less traveled. 

 

/salute Ghost

 

 

Welcome Drew2975,

Solid 1st post!

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

You don't think Pitman can be a 1? 

 

Keep that same energy. 

Did you read the second paragraph?

 

And serious Q. How many Xs so you see as #1s on their teams? And out of those, how many of those are 4.5s forty guys?

[AKB]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Did you read the second paragraph?

 

And serious Q. How many Xs so you see as #1s on their teams? And out of those, how many of those are 4.5s forty guys?

I mean number one target. Like Michael Thomas, Robinson, Andre Johnson (Dez old days) Davantae Adams isn't a burner either. Although I wouldn't include him here. Jarvis Landry also isn't a burner. 

 

There is definitely a need for a deep route runner. I don't think that's a determining factor though. A good example of this is Metkalf and Lockett. 

 

And yeah I read your post. The first thing you said was that you hope the coaches dont view him as a one. I mean that's enough right there to determine how you feel about him as a player. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 hours ago, Drew2975 said:

This is my first post on the colts forums and I hope I do not embarrass myself with hyperbole.That being said... 

 

Fanatics of teams are defined as a  enthusiastic devotee or a ardent admirer. 

 

In the Era of free agency and player empowerment a player spending their entire (or even majority of) career has become exceedingly rare. 

 

TY Hilton reportedly took less money to remain with OUR team, the Indianapolis Colts.  

 

In a Era of negativity, doubt,and incredulousness we should celebrate this moment and TY for doing what is becoming more rare in sports and culture in general. And that is loyalty to the team, city, and fans. 

 

TY may not have the year some fans want from him, and may exceed what others imagine. 

 

But that isn't what today is about. We should celebrate a player that has given us so many great sports memories over so many years. 

 

A player that more than likely turned down millions of dollars to remain with OUR team. 

 

I would like to say that I would do the same for my team. But if I am being completely honest, with millions of dollars on the line, I don't know if I would have done the same. I would hope we ALL can agree it would be a heavy choice no matter the outcome. 

 

Its my sincere hope that we show him the loyalty and appreciation he showed the fans today. 

 

I have always been a TY fan, but today I thank him for taking the the road less traveled. 

 

/salute Ghost

 

 

Great post and welcome to the forum. You will find that most of the posters are good, some great but there is always that handful that don't get it, you seem to get it 

[2006Coltsbestever]

18 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Just spit balling, but if Campbell and Pittman stay healthy, I'd guestimate TY somewhere between 500-800.

 

As far a how much we run the ball, I'd bet we slow roll Wentz early, and run it a ton. That plan will likely work fine against bad teams, but once we get down, the plan gets tossed. I just hope Wentz is quick in returning to form. I think we have more than enough receiving talent at RB and TE groups to be great in the short passing game. Not sure if I'd be able to handle another JB-like 2019 though.

700 is likely, 800 maybe, 900 ceiling if I had to gauge it. If we play more explosive on offense than 900 could happen. One good thing about Wentz is, he can throw it deep and TY loves that.

[OhioColt]

By the numbers alone from last season we already know that Hilton spends most of time time lining up outside (500) and 185 in Slot.

 

Pittman was pretty much evenly split time lining up in the Slot (311) and outside (333).

 

Pascal was primarily out Slot receiver (620).

 

Campbell's history is primarily a Slot receiver but do remember the team hoping he would take the next leap and be a play-maker outside as well.  Lets just hope Campbell is healthy and stays that way this season and see exactly what we have in him and if he can replace Hilton next season.

 

 

[Believe blue1306]

9 hours ago, Kdeming1230 said:

If this is true, God Bless T.Y. Glad he didn’t make the mistake that many many athletes make in their golden years after a long career with one team. They have the choice of playing and retiring with the team they started out with and becoming a legend in Indianapolis forever or they can chase the money, play a year or two for some team and thats it. I’m sure TY would still be a colts legend but retiring a colt makes it that much more sweeter and shows just how much he loves playing here.

I agree!! The fact that marvin was a colt and only a colt makes it so much sweeter!! Haha Reggie went to the pats and didn't last through training camp! Still love Reg though. Hope T.Y. does the same!

[GoColts8818]

40 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I wouldn't say it's truly a make or break year for Campbell. He'll still be on a rook deal in 22. If he gets hurt again, doubt we'd cut him, or give up on him. He'd just be another guy we all hope gets it together, once again lol. I think originally, based on what FR and CB said, they were looking for Campbell to start out in the slot, and then move out to Z, and likely replace TY. I still think that holds true, it's just he's been really unlucky with unrelated injuries. But yes, another injury riddled year, unrelated or not to previous injuries, will temper the expectations down even more.

 

I really hope they never look at Pittman as a one. At least not in Frank's O. If they do, that would mean were a very heavy possession offense, and very conservative. Now if Frank opens things up a bit, and starts using Pittman in the deep game, then yes, I could see him as maybe a true #1. Xs in general are rarely #1s unless the offense if very heavy on short possession, or if the X is also a dynamic downfield threat in a more open O. Not saying Pittman can't be a guy like that, it's just I don't think he has the top end speed, and I don't see Frank using him deep a bunch.

 

 

I don’t think he’d get cut but I do think the Colts would start to plan to not have him in the future and look for a replacement and anything else they got from him would be viewed as a bonus at that point.  I am basically saying he wouldn’t be in the Colts plans past his rookie deal if he gets hurt again.
 

I think Pittman has the talent to be a one but I also don’t think being the one matters as much as in the Colts offense.  It’s not like the days with Manning where he had Reggie and Marvin or even Luck with Reggie and TY where they are depending on their WRs to carry a large load of the offense. 

[EastStreet]

27 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

I mean number one target. Like Michael Thomas, Robinson, Andre Johnson (Dez old days) Davantae Adams isn't a burner either. Although I wouldn't include him here. Jarvis Landry also isn't a burner. 

 

There is definitely a need for a deep route runner. I don't think that's a determining factor though. A good example of this is Metkalf and Lockett. 

So you've picked a very few Xs over the last two decades. 3 of the 5 guys you named aren't Xs.

 

Thomas - comparing Payton's O to Frank's is like comparing apples to squash. Payton makes Ds defend every single inch of the field. Thomas is heavily involved in the deep game. Payton uses bigs, even TEs in deep routes all the time. Frank does not.

 

Robinson - if you're talking about the Bear's Robinson, he's the defacto target hog because the Bears have a horrible WR room. 

 

Johnson - retired now lol, and was a bit of a unicorn running a 4.3x forty at 6-3. He really wasn't an X though. Kevin Walter started as their X (he was drafted the same year as Johnson) while Johnson was simply a big Z. 

 

Adams - isn't an X. He's 6-1. Marquez Valdes-Scantling and Lazzard are GBs Xs.

 

Landry is 5-11 and not an X.

 

27 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

And yeah I read your post. The first thing you said was that you hope the coaches dont view him as a one. I mean that's enough right there to determine how you feel about him as a player. 

 

It has zero to do with how I see him, and everything to do with NFL Os of today, and Frank's O in particular. I think you took what I wrote how you wanted to interpret it. I was pretty clear that 1) very few successful Os have Xs as #1s, and Frank's O, with Pittman as a #1 would likely mean we'll again lack any vertical threat.

 

 

 

[EastStreet]

42 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

700 is likely, 800 maybe, 900 ceiling if I had to gauge it. If we play more explosive on offense than 900 could happen. One good thing about Wentz is, he can throw it deep and TY loves that.

And I'm just not sure Frank will call that much deep stuff. Especially the first half of the season.

[AKB]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

So you've picked a very few Xs over the last two decades. 3 of the 5 guys you named aren't Xs.

 

Thomas - comparing Payton's O to Frank's is like comparing apples to squash. Payton makes Ds defend every single inch of the field. Thomas is heavily involved in the deep game. Payton uses bigs, even TEs in deep routes all the time. Frank does not.

 

Robinson - if you're talking about the Bear's Robinson, he's the defacto target hog because the Bears have a horrible WR room. 

 

Johnson - retired now lol, and was a bit of a unicorn running a 4.3x forty at 6-3. He really wasn't an X though. Kevin Walter started as their X (he was drafted the same year as Johnson) while Johnson was simply a big Z. 

 

Adams - isn't an X. He's 6-1. Marquez Valdes-Scantling and Lazzard are GBs Xs.

 

Landry is 5-11 and not an X.

 

 

It has zero to do with how I see him, and everything to do with NFL Os of today, and Frank's O in particular. I think you took what I wrote how you wanted to interpret it. I was pretty clear that 1) very few successful Os have Xs as #1s, and Frank's O, with Pittman as a #1 would likely mean we'll again lack any vertical threat.

 

 

 

You're splitting straws. There are plenty of big bodied WR that have had success, and will continue to have success in this league. I did not go through the entire league, and he had a limited rookie year in covid conditions. So I guess we will have to see what happens. But your claims are just completely baseless, that an X can't be a WR1. It doesn't even make sense, and you are using some archaic logic to justify it as well. 

 

Also, height alone does not determine where someone is going to line up. You are gonna see them all move around. Players can play multiple positions, and run different routes. 

 

Also the idea that Robinson only gets targets because the rest of the offense is trash is a false narrative as well. He is a talented player. 

 

And finally, every single time Reich or Ballard, or anyone from the colts staff talks about Pittman he has extremely high praise. Your suggesting he can't develop into a number 1, or that the coaching staff shouldn't view him as a number 1 is extremely confusing to me. 

 

Alshon Jefferey is another example. But really im not gonna sit here and name every single possession WR in the league,. 

[EastStreet]

32 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t think he’d get cut but I do think the Colts would start to plan to not have him in the future and look for a replacement and anything else they got from him would be viewed as a bonus at that point.  I am basically saying he wouldn’t be in the Colts plans past his rookie deal if he gets hurt again.
 

I think Pittman has the talent to be a one but I also don’t think being the one matters as much as in the Colts offense.  It’s not like the days with Manning where he had Reggie and Marvin or even Luck with Reggie and TY where they are depending on their WRs to carry a large load of the offense. 

Purely my opinion, but I think first and foremost, Irsay wants to win. And I think Irsay believes it's a passing league. Sure you need a good running game (we do have a good/great running game), but you need a dynamic passing game too. And to have a dynamic passing game you need a good QB and a quality speed guy that can be successful intermediate and deep. 

 

All that said, I think they are trying to get there. They weren't satisfied with JB. They've drafted fast WRs like Campbell, Fountain, and Cain. Some of the moves haven't paid off, but it seems like they are trying to go there. If anything, I'm not sure if Frank's O scheme will get us there. Trying to be patient.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Glad he's back.

TY is one of my favorite indy colts all time......and I'm even more glad he received market value and didn't settle for less than what he's been worth to us.

Now I hope we go early in draft and get a true #1 playmaker and Pittman & TY can be #2 & #3 with Pasqual as #4 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

You're splitting straws. There are plenty of big bodied WR that have had success, and will continue to have success in this league. I did not go through the entire league, and he had a limited rookie year in covid conditions. So I guess we will have to see what happens. But your claims are just completely baseless, that an X can't be a WR1. It doesn't even make sense, and you are using some archaic logic to justify it as well. 

I did not say Xs can't be #1s. I said it's rare. And I'm not splitting straws. I was explicit that I was talking about Xs. I asked you to provide Xs like Pittman that were number 1s. You couldn't find many, and most of what you provided weren't Xs, and didn't have the same measurables as Pittman. It's that simple, and it's not baseless. Most of the #1s on teams today just aren't in the mold of a traditional X.

 

No need to spin this somewhere else. Stay on topic. Reread my post if you need to. I think you're simply emotional about Pittman, when this isn't really about him.

2 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

Also, height alone does not determine where someone is going to line up. You are gonna see them all move around. Players can play multiple positions, and run different routes. 

lol. Sure guys can line up anywhere, but if you think most teams don't at least attempt to adhere to basic X, slot, and Z WR types, I'm just not sure what to tell you. It's pretty basic football 101. And the majority of Xs are typically 6-3ish or more outside WRs. And most guys that are 6-3 or more, and run 4.5s tend to be Xs. Sure there are exceptions, but that's they way it ends up the overwhelming majority of the time. 

2 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

Also the idea that Robinson only gets targets because the rest of the offense is trash is a false narrative as well. He is a talented player. 

Nobody is saying Robinson is a very talented guy. And that's not what I said. I said his hog of targets is due to the sad state of Chicago's WR room. I don't think that's arguable. 

2 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

And finally, every single time Reich or Ballard, or anyone from the colts staff talks about Pittman he has extremely high praise. Your suggesting he can't develop into a number 1, or that the coaching staff shouldn't view him as a number 1 is extremely confusing to me. 

I don't expect them to be anything but complimentary and optimistic about Pittman lol. And once again, I'm not saying it's impossible for him to be a #1. I am saying Xs aren't typically #1s in today's NFL. 

2 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

Alshon Jefferey is another example. But really im not gonna sit here and name every single possession WR in the league,. 

lol. Jefferey's best year was 2013, and he was playing Z. Brandon Marshal was Chicago's X. Jefferey is also a 4.4s guy.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

15 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Purely my opinion, but I think first and foremost, Irsay wants to win. And I think Irsay believes it's a passing league. Sure you need a good running game (we do have a good/great running game), but you need a dynamic passing game too. And to have a dynamic passing game you need a good QB and a quality speed guy that can be successful intermediate and deep. 

 

All that said, I think they are trying to get there. They weren't satisfied with JB. They've drafted fast WRs like Campbell, Fountain, and Cain. Some of the moves haven't paid off, but it seems like they are trying to go there. If anything, I'm not sure if Frank's O scheme will get us there. Trying to be patient.

 

I think our passing game will get there if they spend the resources on them.

Fountain, Cain etc.... weren't high picks...   Pittman was and he's a solid #2 receiver.  

A high pick on a WR & TE along with a fixed Wentz will get our passing game/offense there.

 

And yes you are correct,  Irsay gets that it's a passing league as do most people..  let's hope irsay has major input in the draft. 

[AKB]

24 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I did not say Xs can't be #1s. I said it's rare. And I'm not splitting straws. I was explicit that I was talking about Xs. I asked you to provide Xs like Pittman that were number 1s. You couldn't find many, and most of what you provided weren't Xs, and didn't have the same measurables as Pittman. It's that simple, and it's not baseless. Most of the #1s on teams today just aren't in the mold of a traditional X.

 

No need to spin this somewhere else. Stay on topic. Reread my post if you need to. I think you're simply emotional about Pittman, when this isn't really about him.

lol. Sure guys can line up anywhere, but if you think most teams don't at least attempt to adhere to basic X, slot, and Z WR types, I'm just not sure what to tell you. It's pretty basic football 101. And the majority of Xs are typically 6-3ish or more outside WRs. And most guys that are 6-3 or more, and run 4.5s tend to be Xs. Sure there are exceptions, but that's they way it ends up the overwhelming majority of the time. 

Nobody is saying Robinson is a very talented guy. And that's not what I said. I said his hog of targets is due to the sad state of Chicago's WR room. I don't think that's arguable. 

I don't expect them to be anything but complimentary and optimistic about Pittman lol. And once again, I'm not saying it's impossible for him to be a #1. I am saying Xs aren't typically #1s in today's NFL. 

lol. Jefferey's best year was 2013, and he was playing Z. Brandon Marshal was Chicago's X. Jefferey is also a 4.4s guy.

1.) I'm not being emotional. That would suggest that Ballard and Reich are also emotional about him. We didn't sign any big name guys? They obviously have faith in him, emotion has nothing to do with it. The dude dominated in college. He also had a very tough rookie year/situation, as all rookies did. He also had a calf injury, that's pretty gruesome. 

 

2.) Also, don't tell me to stay on topic like you are some moderator of what I am saying. Nothing I am saying is off topic, it just happens to commonly disagree with your take. 

 

3.) The guys that I mentioned that are not necessarily tall fit the possesion type WR. Height, and positional lineup is not the only archetype system to catergorize players. First and foremost, he catches contested balls, and he can RAC. A lot of players fit that description rather they are 5 11 or 6 ' 3'' ft, it doesn't really matter so long as they are getting production. 

 

4.) This false idea that you possess that says X can't be a number 1 receiver has no support at all. Other than the fact that I don't have names memorized. In reality, the "number 1" really is scheme and player dependent. The Y receiver can be the number 1 receiver in an offense. The X or Z can also be number ones. (As i think about it, Mike Evans is another example) Also, "number 1" is a very vague classifying system. Who was the number 1 out of Evans, Brown, and Godwin? Did it change depending on the game? Are we going to classify only by stats? Are we going to make exceptions? 

 

5.) Players don't run their 40 time in full pads throughout a whole game. So this obsession you have with their 40 time is ridiculous. 

 

My conclusion is that you tend to be 70% pessimistic in regards to players on the team, especially those developing. 

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I think our passing game will get there if they spend the resources on them.

Fountain, Cain etc.... weren't high picks...   Pittman was and he's a solid #2 receiver.  

A high pick on a WR & TE along with a fixed Wentz will get our passing game/offense there.

 

And yes you are correct,  Irsay gets that it's a passing league as do most people..  let's hope irsay has major input in the draft. 

I'm pretty confident that Ballard knows what Irsay wants. Like I said, they're trying to get there.

 

Don't forget Cain was considered an early round pick, but fell due to off the field issues. IMO, we misused him (wrong position).

 

Overall, we've spent 2 early round picks on WRs, and 3 later round picks, in the last 3 years. That's a pretty decent amount of draft capital. 

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

1.) I'm not being emotional. That would suggest that Ballard and Reich are also emotional about him. We didn't sign any big name guys? They obviously have faith in him, emotion has nothing to do with it. The dude dominated in college. He also had a very tough rookie year/situation, as all rookies did. He also had a calf injury, that's pretty gruesome. 

lol, you seem pretty emotional to me. 

 

What does not signing big name guys have to do with Pittman. We're set at X... and we have Patmon and Pascal as depth Xs. We have Campbell at Z. We just resigned TY for Z... It was pretty obvious from the start that we were doing our best to bring TY back, and weren't going to spend a ton early on someone else.

 

Yes, he did well in college. He also had Amon Ra and Vaughns dominating too on the same team. And USC used him a lot in the deep game.

9 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

2.) Also, don't tell me to stay on topic like you are some moderator of what I am saying. Nothing I am saying is off topic, it just happens to commonly disagree with your take. 

You keep spinning/reaching when your points fall flat or are incorrect. And you keep putting words in my mouth, instead of what I actually typed.

 

If you get off topic, I'll ask you to stay on topic. I don't have to be a mod to ask you to post in good faith.

9 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

3.) The guys that I mentioned that are not necessarily tall fit the possesion type WR. Height, and positional lineup is not the only archetype system to catergorize players. First and foremost, he catches contested balls, and he can RAC. A lot of players fit that description rather they are 5 11 or 6 ' 3'' ft, it doesn't really matter so long as they are getting production.

LOL. Ok, again, I was specifically talking about X in my original post, which you replied too. Now you want to make it about all WRs lol. The fact is, Pittman is 6-4, runs 4.5x, and plays X for us. And like I said, it's not normal (not impossible) for those guys to be #1s in today's NFL. 

 

If you want to pivot to size, different positions, etc., fine, but again, you're going off topic. My question still remains. How many Xs in today's NFL, or how many guys with his measurables (height and speed), are #1s in truly healthy/dynamic Os.

9 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

4.) This false idea that you possess that says X can't be a number 1 receiver has no support at all. Other than the fact that I don't have names memorized. In reality, the "number 1" really is scheme and player dependent. The Y receiver can be the number 1 receiver in an offense. The X or Z can also be number ones. (As i think about it, Mike Evans is another example) Also, "number 1" is a very vague classifying system. Who was the number 1 out of Evans, Brown, and Godwin? Did it change depending on the game? Are we going to classify only by stats? Are we going to make exceptions? 

I guess I'll say it one more time since you can't seem to read what I type. 

It is not impossible for an X to be a #1.

I'll repeat.

It is not impossible for an X to be a #1....... 

 

See my previous posts if you need to. 

 

Did you know Mike Evans was starting alongside Vincent Jackson (6-5 WR) his first several years. Evans is indeed one of the unicorns, but is also heavily involved in the deep passing game (again, unlike Riech's O to date).

9 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

My conclusion is that you tend to be 70% pessimistic in regards to players on the team, especially those developing. 

I'm factual, and realistic. My opinions are based on the norms of the current league. You on the other hand, are assuming something will happen that is not all that common. Again, one more time.... It's not impossible for an X to be a number 1. I'm not pessimistic about Pittman. I simply know X type WRs, are not typically #1s. The ones that are, are typically faster unicorns, or are playing in different offensive schemes. Simple as that.

[AKB]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

lol, you seem pretty emotional to me. 

 

What does not signing big name guys have to do with Pittman. We're set at X... and we have Patmon and Pascal as depth Xs. We have Campbell at Z. We just resigned TY for Z... It was pretty obvious from the start that we were doing our best to bring TY back, and weren't going to spend a ton early on someone else.

 

Yes, he did well in college. He also had Amon Ra and Vaughns dominating too on the same team. And USC used him a lot in the deep game.

You keep spinning/reaching when your points fall flat or are incorrect. And you keep putting words in my mouth, instead of what I actually typed.

 

If you get off topic, I'll ask you to stay on topic. I don't have to be a mod to ask you to post in good faith.

LOL. Ok, again, I was specifically talking about X in my original post, which you replied too. Now you want to make it about all WRs lol. The fact is, Pittman is 6-4, runs 4.5x, and plays X for us. And like I said, it's not normal (not impossible) for those guys to be #1s in today's NFL. 

 

If you want to pivot to size, different positions, etc., fine, but again, you're going off topic. My question still remains. How many Xs in today's NFL, or how many guys with his measurables (height and speed), are #1s in truly healthy/dynamic Os.

I guess I'll say it one more time since you can't seem to read what I type. 

It is not impossible for an X to be a #1.

I'll repeat.

It is not impossible for an X to be a #1....... 

 

See my previous posts if you need to. 

 

Did you know Mike Evans was starting alongside Vincent Jackson (6-5 WR) his first several years. Evans is indeed one of the unicorns, but is also heavily involved in the deep passing game (again, unlike Riech's O to date).

I'm factual, and realistic. My opinions are based on the norms of the current league. You on the other hand, are assuming something will happen that is not all that common. Again, one more time.... It's not impossible for an X to be a number 1. I'm not pessimistic about Pittman. I simply know X type WRs, are not typically #1s. The ones that are, are typically faster unicorns, or are playing in different offensive schemes. Simple as that.

You can just quote the entire post. You don't have to split it up like that. And you said stay on topic, but I was responding to a post where you mentioned the WRs. And everything I said was about WR? Going into more depth about a point is not off topic. I guess it is when it doesn't support your weird hypothesis about "X" receivers. 

[danlhart87]

[Nickster]

8 hours ago, JoeThornburg said:

Love the signing for $8M guaranteed. One of the best route runners of the last decade. Lost a step but has everything else. Knows the building. I'm a little sketchy on reports that he was offered more than Fuller but whatever. Rather see him on this team than Watkins twice on Sundays. If Campbell can stay healthy he could do everything Watkins should have been doing and let's not forget about the potential Pittman has in 1v1, not to mention Pascal. I also like it because of maintaining continuity with a new QB in the locker room.

He’s a pro.  The offense improved with him in over when he was injured.  Helped open things up.

 

I think we need more to improve though.  Since we were WC round winners last year, the bar is pretty high.  

[1959Colts]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/03/25/inside-the-t-y-hilton-incentive-package/

T.Y. Hilton incentive package:

 

Quote

 

...T.Y. Hilton will make $8 million guaranteed under his one-year contract with the Colts. He can make up to $2 million more via incentives...

...With 50 receptions, Hilton gets $250,000. At 60, another $250,000. At 70, another $250,000. If Hilton has 80 catches in 2021, he makes the full million.

For receiving yards, it’s $250,000 for 600 yards, another $250,000 for 700 yards, another $250,000 for 800 yards, and another $250,000 for 900 yards.

So if Hilton gets 80 or more catches and 900 or more yards, he makes the full $10 million....

 

 

 

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/03/25/inside-the-t-y-hilton-incentive-package/

T.Y. Hilton incentive package:

 

 

 

I think that's fair. He had 55ish/750ish last season, and 45ish/500ish in 2019. Assuming Pittman takes a step forward, and Campbell stays healthy, that will make it difficult for TY to hit some of that, unless Frank opens things up more.

[Zoltan]

 

13 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

Hilton is long past being good. He might be adequate but he can't do good anymore.

 

I could easily see TY improve this year, last year it seemed him and Rivers were never on the same page. Rivers has always like tall receivers he could throw it up to and that wasn't Hilton's game. TY fits with Wentz's game a lot more

[jvan1973]

14 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

Hilton is long past being good. He might be adequate but he can't do good anymore.

 

 

[jvan1973]

17 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

Yes, signing a slow washed up TY Hilton will certainly move the Colts needle up. Not! Perhaps we will draft two receivers and cut him before the season starts.

Do you understand what "guarantee" means?

[The Fish]

10 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

 

 

I could easily see TY improve this year, last year it seemed him and Rivers were never on the same page. Rivers has always like tall receivers he could throw it up to and that wasn't Hilton's game. TY fits with Wentz's game a lot more

It's almost like the guy throwing the ball matters when you've got a guy who's game is mid range to long.

T.Y isn't a 1 because he can't make bad QB's serviceable, but with a QB who can hit him in stride, he's close to a 1. 

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

 

In fairness, the routes he's successful on are very different than the old TY. Don't get me wrong, I love those flat and comeback routes. He runs great routes and still has hands. But notice that most of his deep stuff came from running out of the slot, and burning LBs. He's still a quality WR, but he's not the same guy that can burn CB1s deep on the outside.