Sammy Watkins to visit the Colts

[Moosejawcolt]

4 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

I just dont see much logic in that whole assertion.

 

And the “i will wait for your answer” is a bit much, imo.

 

We can all agree to disagree sometimes.  Its just “armchair GM” stuff anyway.

Logic. I just asked a simple question. Not rocket science.

[Moosejawcolt]

20 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Regarding if Nelson was on the market we would get a lot in return, he is the best at his position and would make an O.Line instantly much better. If picking an OG was such a gamble and most GM's don't do that then why didn't Ballard go against it himself and draft defense or WR? He didn't because he knew Nelson would be great which to me is very smart.

Well....then tell me . What do u mean by alot? Give me a team and assets.

[WoolMagnet]

32 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

I will never forget the 20 million JB contract.

Agreed, but one has to include the whole set of events starting with the Luck retirement when making judgement on what most of us thought was a VERY sweet contract.  (For JB)
  We had the money, and it seemed a logical short-term bandaid with a chance to grow into more.  I thought JB looked promising until the injury in that that s Pittsburgh game.  Never looked the same to me after that.  
  I never saw JB as a top-tier QB, but this team didnt need that.  We are still saying that.

  But yes, i wont “forget” that salary either.  Haha

 

[Moosejawcolt]

23 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Regarding if Nelson was on the market we would get a lot in return, he is the best at his position and would make an O.Line instantly much better. If picking an OG was such a gamble and most GM's don't do that then why didn't Ballard go against it himself and draft defense or WR? He didn't because he knew Nelson would be great which to me is very smart.

Colts gave a #13 pick for Buckner and a new contract 20 mill plus. U see same scenario for Nelson? I dont.

[WoolMagnet]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Well....then tell me . What do u mean by alot? Give me a team and assets.

That is a good question.

Can u think of any other guards who were traded?

  I would think his value would be close to the top tackles.  Not Trent williams type stuff, but top OT i would think.  
  The whole league took notice how that one guy changed not only our OL, but arguably the tone of our whole team.   
  I dont think its a coincidence WE started being the bulky team on the field about the same time he showed up.  This dude is DIFFERENT.   Different on the level of like a Buckner is on D .  They affect everyone around them.

  But as far as value?  Good question, but I’d keep him and give him the $20m per.  You keep those guys when you are lucky enough to find them.

[WoolMagnet]

11 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Colts gave a #13 pick for Buckner and a new contract 20 mill plus. U see same scenario for Nelson? I dont.

When i look at the face of the Buckner deal i would almost say that no team would do the Buckner deal.  That said, we all saw just how it impacted this team.

  Taking that in mind, i would think some team with a historically bad OL would certainly jump on the chance to anchor the OL.  Nelson is different than other OLmen.

  Sounds like alot.  But i’ve seen trades and contracts with far less “value.”

 

[wordofmouth]

Hey did you guys here that Samy Watkins is visiting the Colts!? 

I wasn't sure if this was the right place to post this 

 

He could be a good on a one or two year deal if the price is right. 

 

By the way what does everyone think of Ballard as a GM?

[2006Coltsbestever]

17 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Well....then tell me . What do u mean by alot? Give me a team and assets.

If we traded Nelson we would get at least a 1st round pick and probably a 2nd round pick, if not a 2nd a 3rd along with that 1st. Which team is impossible to answer because there are 31 other teams lol, but that would be his value in my eye's. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I woukd argue that the middle linebacker  is the most important position in this defence. Ala urlacher and wagner of Seattle. 

Sorry, I mean most important linebacker position 

 

OK.....

 

I'm going to take another crack at it.   I think I figured out part of the problem.    And my comments are not just based on what you've written in the last 24 hours...    more like the last 24 weeks or even 24 months.     So, here is what I think is causing the disconnect.

 

It strikes me, based on what you've written here,  that you have a one-size-fits-all approach to defense and offense.   But for now, let's stick to defense.    It strikes me that you think all 32 NFL teams either run a 4-3 or a 3-4.    And that each team that is running the 4-3 is running the exact same defense, and values each position the same.    The same would go for the 3-4. 

 

This is 100 percent false.     There are variations on each defense.   A number of them.   Some teams value bigger and stronger players.    Some teams value smaller and faster players.    The Colts are one of those teams.   But you seem to think that we are somehow violating the true principles of the 4-3.   We are not.   I'm basing this on that priority list link you posted about a month ago.    I'm also basing this on your comments about Buckner.   I'm basing this based on your comments about Leonard.   And I'm basing this on your new comment about Anthony Walker being the most important player in this defense.   That one sentence alone reveals your flawed thinking.    

 

It doesn't even occur to you that we just let Anthony Walker (who Ballard loves!)  walk out the door when all he got was a $3.5m contract.    It doesn't occur to you that no one else offered more.   Or that Ballard didn't even try to keep him.   All that you can see is that Walker was our Erlacher or Wagner.    He's not and never was.    Those two guys are great at everything.  Even playing the pass.    Defending against the pass is Walker's weak spot.   But none of that clicks for you.    You just think Middle Linebacker is the key to the 4-3 defense.     It is for some.   But not for all.    By the way, on passing downs,  when Walker comes off,  the person who has replaced him is Leonard who is better against the pass.

 

The sooner you give up on this idea that there are only two defenses,  either the 4-3 or the 3-4,  the sooner you'll understand that each defense and offense is like a fingerprint.   Unique to that team.    There isn't a one-size-fits-all approach to football.

 

 

 

 

[ojsglove]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It really didn't hurt the team though and JB's contract has nothing to do how we are handling the Cap this year. He didn't play up to his contract but to me it isn't a factor now. He still wasn't a bad QB, average QB, great backup. I have seen much worse here as I have mentioned many times.

20 million for a locker room prescience,  not one of Ballard's finest moves.

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

20 million for a locker room prescience,  not one of Ballard's finest moves.

I don't think it was either so I am not disagreeing with you, I am just saying it has nothing to do with this year at least. I also did post above that JB did not live up to his contract but he did have some good moments here with his play. The throw against Denver, starting 5-2 with the 14/3 TD/INT ratio, we even won at KC with him starting. He was a great leader in the locker room too. He was average as it turns out and wasn't worth 20 Mill as nobody would argue that but it is time to move on.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, ojsglove said:

20 million for a locker room prescience,  not one of Ballard's finest moves.

You got every part of this wrong. 
 

Brissett got 2 years and $30 million to be our starting quarterback.  We didn’t pay him $20 for his locker room skills.   He was elevated to be our starting QB and was only making $2m at the time.  To make him the starter and keep him at the low backup money would’ve been wrong and disrespectful.   So we bumped his pay to mid-level starting QB salary. ($15m per)   It didn’t work out.   We kept him in case something bad happened to Rivers.

When we had a chance to keep him this year, we traded for Wentz and have moved on.  Nothing we did with JB stopped us from doing anything else.   I view this as a good story for Ballard, not a bad one.  It keeps the chemistry and culture in the locker room high. 

 

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Looking back at it now, Nelson may be the best player in that draft (hindsight is wonderful) and Ballard was smart enough to pick him at #6. Hardly no team has ever took an OG at #6 in the draft so yes that makes him a genius. 5 other teams passed on Nelson including Denver who took Chubb at #5. Why did Denver pass on Nelson? The Browns took Denzel Ward at #4 as well. Honestly the best talent in that draft was Barkley IMO who went #2, best QB has been Mayfield who did go #1.

Nelson was considered one of the few no-brainers in the draft. He was universally seen as the best OL. He graded out second highest of all players that year, was 2nd overall, and the only OL in the top 10. 

 

So I have to agree, picking him in no way makes him a genius. It was a very safe pick (almost zero chance of bust), and at a position that coaches rarely make in the 1st (a guard). 

3 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I woukd argue that the middle linebacker  is the most important position in this defence. Ala urlacher and wagner of Seattle. 

Sorry, I mean most important linebacker position 

MIKE has for a long time been diminished in general. I would agree it is very much underappreciated in our D as we typically only have 2 LBs on the field at once (we're in nickel most of the time). 

 

IMO, we're going to miss Walker big time vs the run. Really hope Oke has improved a lot in the offseason. 

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Regarding if Nelson was on the market we would get a lot in return, he is the best at his position and would make an O.Line instantly much better. If picking an OG was such a gamble and most GM's don't do that then why didn't Ballard go against it himself and draft defense or WR? He didn't because he knew Nelson would be great which to me is very smart.

IMO, we wouldn't get a 1R from a team that had a top 16 pick. Just not a lot of teams are gong to use a 1st on a guard in the first place, and even less that will use a first and not even get the benefit of cheap rook contract years. 

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It really didn't hurt the team though and JB's contract has nothing to do how we are handling the Cap this year. He didn't play up to his contract but to me it isn't a factor now. He still wasn't a bad QB, average QB, great backup. I have seen much worse here as I have mentioned many times.

JB's contract last year has a very direct impact on the lack of carry over dollars we have for this year, and by default, carryover we have for next year. It is what it is, and sense crying over split milk, but it absolutely had a detrimental impact on future cap.

[coming on strong]

6 hours ago, ojsglove said:

20 million for a locker room prescience,  not one of Ballard's finest moves.

Colts could have had a extra 20 million this offseason if they did not give jacoby such a big raise .  Rolling over 20 million colts would have 65 million after paying wentz . That hurt so bad and is why colts can only sight depth guys this offseason . 

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

Colts could have had a extra 20 million this offseason if they did not give jacoby such a big raise .  Rolling over 20 million colts would have 65 million after paying wentz . That hurt so bad and is why colts can only sight depth guys this offseason . 

This is false. 

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

Colts could have had a extra 20 million this offseason if they did not give jacoby such a big raise .  Rolling over 20 million colts would have 65 million after paying wentz . That hurt so bad and is why colts can only sight depth guys this offseason . 

That's incorrect

[coming on strong]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

This is false. 

Teams are allowed to roll over unused cap from previous years . If you have information that proves my statement wrong I will retract it . Please explain 

[jvan1973]

Just now, coming on strong said:

Teams are allowed to roll over unused cap from previous years . If you have information that proves my statement wrong I will retract it . Please explain 

They would have spent some of that on any back up qb.   They wouldn't have had 20 million to roll over

[coming on strong]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

They would have spent some of that on any back up qb.   They wouldn't have had 20 million to roll over

How much would they have had to spend ? 5 million or more 

[Scott Pennock]

Back on topic.......anyone seen any tweets or heard any rumblings about Watkins and his decision to sign here or in BMore?

[richard pallo]

4 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Back on topic.......anyone seen any tweets or heard any rumblings about Watkins and his decision to sign here or in BMore?

If he had a choice I would think he would rather play for us than the Ravens.  But the Ravens might just throw him a lot of money.  

[Scott Pennock]

10 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

If he had a choice I would think he would rather play for us than the Ravens.  But the Ravens might just throw him a lot of money.  

Considering they were supposedly pay TY a bundle of money, I would expect that to be a true statement!  Perhaps Sammy will make a similar decision as TY????

[Colts1324]

15 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Considering they were supposedly pay TY a bundle of money, I would expect that to be a true statement!  Perhaps Sammy will make a similar decision as TY????

I would imagine the Ravens are feeling a little desperate at the moment too. Plus, Watkins might have the assumption he will get more playing time in Baltimore vs Indy

[Indyfan4life]

31 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

If he had a choice I would think he would rather play for us than the Ravens.  But the Ravens might just throw him a lot of money.  

Ravens only have 16 mil to spend, and according to TY/Pat, they offered him 13. I really can’t see it being the same if not higher than that. 

[richard pallo]

3 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

Ravens only have 16 mil to spend, and according to TY/Pat, they offered him 13. I really can’t see it being the same if not higher than that. 

We wouldn't pay him a contract close to TY's so the Ravens should be able to get him for something near TY's and not approaching 13.  That's my thought anyway. 

[jvan1973]

33 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

Ravens only have 16 mil to spend, and according to TY/Pat, they offered him 13. I really can’t see it being the same if not higher than that. 

I didn't hear TY say the amount he was offered

[jvan1973]

8 hours ago, coming on strong said:

How much would they have had to spend ? 5 million or more 

I guess it would depend on who they chose to be the back up.  When the Colts gave him that contract,  they expected him to be the starter in 2020

[Smonroe]

1 hour ago, Scott Pennock said:

Back on topic.......anyone seen any tweets or heard any rumblings about Watkins and his decision to sign here or in BMore?

I was going to ask the same.  Since they signed TY yesterday, do you think that even made an offer to Watkins?  Knowing Ballard, he’d low ball him since he’d be a luxury, not a necessity.  

 

Assuming everyone is healthy (I’m looking at you Parris), you’d think TY, MPJ, PC, and Pascal are locks.  If they did sign Watkins, or any other mid level WR FA, and they keep six, who stays Dez or Dulin?  Dulin is a ST ace and that #6 WR isn’t going to get much PT, if any.  

[Scott Pennock]

1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

I was going to ask the same.  Since they signed TY yesterday, do you think that even made an offer to Watkins?  Knowing Ballard, he’d low ball him since he’d be a luxury, not a necessity.  

 

Assuming everyone is healthy (I’m looking at you Parris), you’d think TY, MPJ, PC, and Pascal are locks.  If they did sign Watkins, or any other mid level WR FA, and they keep six, who stays Dez or Dulin?  Dulin is a ST ace and that #6 WR isn’t going to get much PT, if any.  

With the TY signing you would think it would be:

Pittman

Campbell

TY

Pascal

Patmon

 

If you added Watkins to that mix then Patmon would be the 6th, if they didn't then you still have the following battling for the 6th spot:

 

Dulin

DeMichael Harris

Quartney Davis

Gary Jennings

JJ Nelson

 

As it stands DeMichael Harris, Quartney Davis and Greg Jennings are likely headed to the practice squad and/or Injured Reserve for the year.

 

And that is before the draft and the possibility of adding someone from there?

[Jackie Daytona]

18 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Agreed, but one has to include the whole set of events starting with the Luck retirement when making judgement on what most of us thought was a VERY sweet contract.  (For JB)
  We had the money, and it seemed a logical short-term bandaid with a chance to grow into more.  I thought JB looked promising until the injury in that that s Pittsburgh game.  Never looked the same to me after that.  
  I never saw JB as a top-tier QB, but this team didnt need that.  We are still saying that.

  But yes, i wont “forget” that salary either.  Haha

 

Dead Horse ready.....annnnnnd I'm beating it.... JB was pedestrian as all hell prior to that injury....he never turned it over, because he refused to throw that dang ball ...not a good trait for your starting, or backup really, qb.... He had the arm, but for whatever reason he wouldn't trust himself to make throws....probably becase he had zero ability to read a defense and would only throw to a wr if no one was withing several yards.

 

We won those early games, with the exception of 2 Ifni remember correctly, largely on the back of incredibly conservative qb play and a damn good OL, with good defense..... He didn't win us, not did he need to "win us" many games early on.... He did have a few standout plays, don't get me wrong.

[PeacefulEasonFeeling]

On 3/22/2021 at 8:25 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I have Marvin and Reggie at great level status for their career's, one could debate TY for his career is at very good status, good at worse anyway.

He’s the 3rd greatest Colts receiver in the team’s history. Going back to Baltimore.

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, Shafty138 said:

Dead Horse ready.....annnnnnd I'm beating it.... JB was pedestrian as all hell prior to that injury....he never turned it over, because he refused to throw that dang ball ...not a good trait for your starting, or backup really, qb.... He had the arm, but for whatever reason he wouldn't trust himself to make throws....probably becase he had zero ability to read a defense and would only throw to a wr if no one was withing several yards.

 

We won those early games, with the exception of 2 Ifni remember correctly, largely on the back of incredibly conservative qb play and a damn good OL, with good defense..... He didn't win us, not did he need to "win us" many games early on.... He did have a few standout plays, don't get me wrong.

Agree on all.  Never said he was an all-pro.  I never saw him as long-term either.  But the way things went down, and who was “available” (draft and FA), it’s very easy to see how it happened.  They thought theycould get more out of him, but i dont think he was their long-term answer.  
  I know you dont think this, butyou dont just 1 day say i need a good QB, twinkle your nose and BOOM..... you got one.

  Ballard, Reich, and JB all were wrong.  But it didnt affect us financially long-term, which is the difference between that “mistake” and 90% of the other failed FA QB contracts.  Philly and Wentz is the perfect example.  Heck, i’d guess 75% of FA QB “starting” contracts dont live up to expectations.  I agree he was pedestrian, but you gotta “big picture” it or is loses all context.
  Might be interesting to look back at what other choices we had.    

[csmopar]

[Hoose]

3 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

With the TY signing you would think it would be:

Pittman

Campbell

TY

Pascal

Patmon

 

If you added Watkins to that mix then Patmon would be the 6th, if they didn't then you still have the following battling for the 6th spot:

 

Dulin

DeMichael Harris

Quartney Davis

Gary Jennings

JJ Nelson

 

As it stands DeMichael Harris, Quartney Davis and Greg Jennings are likely headed to the practice squad and/or Injured Reserve for the year.

 

And that is before the draft and the possibility of adding someone from there?

Honestly, I’m very curious about Harris at this point. The Colts can sit on what they have. Watkins and any other free agent WR is no longer a target. However, that shouldn’t stop the Colts from drafting a WR. Let the best man win. If you’re looking for any more FAs, it will be at DE and perhaps TE. And maybe, maybe CB. That s it. 

[PeacefulEasonFeeling]

21 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If we traded Nelson we would get at least a 1st round pick and probably a 2nd round pick, if not a 2nd a 3rd along with that 1st. Which team is impossible to answer because there are 31 other teams lol, but that would be his value in my eye's. 

And destroy our team. Nope.

[CanuckColt]

15 hours ago, coming on strong said:

Colts could have had a extra 20 million this offseason if they did not give jacoby such a big raise .  Rolling over 20 million colts would have 65 million after paying wentz . That hurt so bad and is why colts can only sight depth guys this offseason . 

Let's just forget about Brissett and his contracts...it makes me sick to my stomach every time I think about the loser.

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

Let's just forget about Brissett and his contracts...it makes me sick to my stomach every time I think about the loser.

Well...   here’s a front runner for Most Disgusting Post of the Day!   Congratulations!   Your parents must be so proud!!     

[Indyfan4life]

24 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

Let's just forget about Brissett and his contracts...it makes me sick to my stomach every time I think about the loser.

That loser the team loved and spoke incredibly highly of as a locker room leader. I’ll take what the players and staff think over your...”opinion”. 

[ojsglove]

21 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

Let's just forget about Brissett and his contracts...it makes me sick to my stomach every time I think about the loser.

LOL, JB was not the loser on this deal.  Don't get me wrong, I like Ballard, but he not the all world GM some on this forum think.

[HoosierHero]

38 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

it makes me sick to my stomach every time I think about the loser.

Woah. If the Colts Walter Payton Man of the year finalists is a loser what the heck does that make all of us? Including you! If that’s what being a loser is sign me up!