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Colts were planning to trade up before trading for Wentz?


CR91

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  • CR91 changed the title to Colts were planning to trade up before trading for Wentz?

I assume the suite us from Frank, and frankly, I’m just not buying it.   If they were going to trade up, they would have preferred a more proven veteran over a rookie.  You know, like Matt Stafford.

 

Theyve been talking all off-season that this is a team ready to WIN NOW!   You typically don’t with a rookie.   Guys like Andrew Luck are the exception to the rule. 
 

Sorry, not buying what Frank is selling. 

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3 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Why is Reich doing all these media interviews but hasn’t had a colts presser yet.


Because Frank and Chris don’t typically have a full media conference until they’ve signed all their main free agent targets.   No need to do one for Wentz, only to have to do another if/when they sign Rhodes, Hilton, and Houston.    Do one media event for all of that.

 

They might even turn it into a post free agent, pre-draft event.... 

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8 minutes ago, tvturner said:

Would've preferred the trade up

Yep, I like taking a shot on Wentz, but for the price I would have preferred trading up. Especially if we are preparing to take a step back next year(so far our FA activity suggests so). I don't mind it, I just think doing it with a rookie QB was a much more natural step.

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4 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yep, I like taking a shot on Wentz, but for the price I would have preferred trading up. Especially if we are preparing to take a step back next year(so far our FA activity suggests so). I don't mind it, I just think doing it with a rookie QB was a much more natural step.

Take a step back?

 

What the.....?!? 

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8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Take a step back?

 

What the.....?!? 

Yes, we've lost our starting LT, both our starting DEs and one of our starting CBs, our starting MIKE. No idea what happens with TY but there is a chance we lose our WR1 too. Very few of the remaining options on the FA market are of the level of most of those players we are losing.

 

Instead to me it looks like Ballard is angling for compensatory picks. I don't think it's very likely our team will be better next year than it was last year. Again - I don't completely mind it, but I feel like if we were going to go this route, going for a QB in the draft was such a natural step...

 

Now, of course Ballard won't go out and say - look, we are taking a step back next year, but IMO you can see where this thing is going by the moves we are (not) making.

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1 minute ago, stitches said:

Yes, we've lost our starting LT, both our starting DEs and one of our starting CBs, our starting MIKE. No idea what happens with TY but there is a chance we lose our WR1 too. Very few of the remaining options on the FA market are of the level of most of those players we are losing.

 

Instead to me it looks like Ballard is angling for compensatory picks. I don't think it's very likely our team will be better next year than it was last year. Again - I don't completely mind it, but I feel like if we were going to go this route, going for a QB in the draft was such a natural step...

 

Houston's numbers are miss leading, Autry isn't a major loss imo, Walker was never gonna be re-signed, Rhodes was re-signed, and Hilton will most likely be brought back.

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8 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Houston's numbers are miss leading, Autry isn't a major loss imo, Walker was never gonna be re-signed, Rhodes was re-signed, and Hilton will most likely be brought back.

10.5  wins over/under next year. Which one are you taking?

 

Neither Autry, nor Houston were amazing, but they were much better than what we are likely to field next year. Right now our starters are who? Banogu and Kemoko? Lewis?

 

None of those have been anything more than situational pass-rushers. I love Kemoko's potential but he's had a horrible injury and he will be returning from yet another surgery this off season. I have no idea what to expect from him.

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4 minutes ago, Happy2BeHere said:

I would have traded up with the Jets at #2 for a ransom and grab Zach Wilson from BYU, that kid is going to be an absolute baller in the NFL

The jets would not take late 1st round draft picks for him .  They only QBs to trade for would be fields and trey lance and Mack. Many teams in the top ten need QBs . No shot at getting any one unless 3 or 4 first round picks and none of those guys are even close to being worth it 

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19 minutes ago, stitches said:

10.5  wins over/under next year. Which one are you taking?

 

Neither Autry, nor Houston were amazing, but they were much better than what we are likely to field next year. Right now our starters are who? Banogu and Kemoko? Lewis?

 

None of those have been anything more than situational pass-rushers. I love Kemoko's potential but he's had a horrible injury and he will be returning from yet another surgery this off season. I have no idea what to expect from him.

 

I'd take the over. You are acting like the players we lost were like all-pro players. They were either older, expandable, or not worth bringing back. Am I concerned about edge? Of course, but we need to finally look at what we have with our young pass rushers and who knows we can always bring Houston back.

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8 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

I'd take the over. You are acting like the players we lost were like all-pro players. They were either older, expandable, or not worth bringing back. Am I concerned about edge? Of course, but we need to finally look at what we have with our young pass rushers and who knows we can always bring Houston back.

I agree.  This is the week FA get's rolling for Ballard.  Let's see how it plays out. 

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18 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

I'd take the over. You are acting like the players we lost were like all-pro players. They were either older, expandable, or not worth bringing back. Am I concerned about edge? Of course, but we need to finally look at what we have with our young pass rushers and who knows we can always bring Houston back.

The post you are replying to literally says "neither Autry, nor Houston were amazing". How the hell am I acting like we are losing all-pros? We are losing solid starters. Now we have not a single one on the EDGE who's ever shown he can be a starter. Kemoko has peaked at about 30% of the snaps as a situational pass-rushers. All the rest have been varying degrees of atrocious to disappointing. Sure we can go into the season and call it "we need to finally look at what we are having with our young pass-rushers" without deluding ourselves that the chances they keep even the mediocre level of last year's group are great. IMO we are in a real danger that we have a horrendous passrush(especially on the edge) next year. Like not just below average ... But truly truly horrible. Bottom 3 of the league type horrible. Have no idea how this is even controversial.

 

There are several players on the market that can still raise the floor of this unit and FA is not over, so... I reserve my right to revisit this assessment, but right now I'm scared %less about our EDGE next year.

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1 minute ago, stitches said:

The post you are replying to literally says "neither Autry, nor Houston were amazing". How the hell am I acting like we are losing all-pros? We are losing solid starters. Now we have not a single one on the EDGE who's ever shown he can be a starter. Kemoko has peaked at about 30% of the snaps as a situational pass-rushers. All the rest have been varying degrees of atrocious to disappointing. Sure we can go into the season and call it "we need to finally look at what we are having with our young pass-rushers" without deluding ourselves that the chances they keep even the mediocre level of last year's group are great. IMO we are in a real danger that we have a horrendous passrush(especially on the edge) next year. Like not just below average ... But truly truly horrible. Bottom 3 of the league type horrible. Have no idea how this is even controversial.

 

There are several players on the market that can still raise the floor of this unit and FA is not over, so... I reserve my right to revisit this assessment, but right now I'm scared %less about our EDGE next year.

The Big Bang Theory Reaction GIF

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1 minute ago, stitches said:

The post you are replying to literally says "neither Autry, nor Houston were amazing". How the hell am I acting like we are losing all-pros? We are losing solid starters. Now we have not a single one on the EDGE who's ever shown he can be a starter. Kemoko has peaked at about 30% of the snaps as a situational pass-rushers. All the rest have been varying degrees of atrocious to disappointing. Sure we can go into the season and call it "we need to finally look at what we are having with our young pass-rushers" without deluding ourselves that the chances they keep even the mediocre level of last year's group are great. IMO we are in a real danger that we have a horrendous passrush(especially on the edge) next year. Like not just below average ... But truly truly horrible. Bottom 3 of the league type horrible. Have no idea how this is even controversial.

 

There are several players on the market that can still raise the floor of this unit and FA is not over, so... I reserve my right to revisit this assessment, but right now I'm scared %less about our EDGE next year.

 

And again I said they could always bring Houston back. I even wouldn't mind taking a look at Melvin Ingram just to see if he can stay healthy. Clowney is another option if the colts wanna go in that direction. There are still options.

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I don't get that inference at all. He could have meant next year or moving a few spots to grab a lower tiered QB this draft.

 

I doubt with all my heart that they would have been considering what some fans wanted...to move up in to the top 5 in this draft. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

Yep, I like taking a shot on Wentz, but for the price I would have preferred trading up. Especially if we are preparing to take a step back next year(so far our FA activity suggests so). I don't mind it, I just think doing it with a rookie QB was a much more natural step.

 

For the price you would have preferred trading up?

 

I can't see many teams looking to trade all the way back into the 3rd round for a conditional 2nd round pick the following year lol.

 

Even if you include #21, there's no way you're getting high enough to even be in range for QB4.

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17 minutes ago, Mackrel829 said:

 

For the price you would have preferred trading up?

 

I can't see many teams looking to trade all the way back into the 3rd round for a conditional 2nd round pick the following year lol.

 

Even if you include #21, there's no way you're getting high enough to even be in range for QB4.


This seems as good of a place to post this...

 

About a month ago, ESPN’s Field Yates posted the following factoid:

 

On the 8 drafts spanning 2009 thru 2016, 22 QB’s were drafted in the first round.  After Goff and Wentz got traded, exactly NONE of the 22 — ZERO — are still with the original teams that drafted them!   None!

 

I think it might be the most shocking bit of info this off-season....    0 for 22.    Wow!!

 

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26 minutes ago, Mackrel829 said:

 

For the price you would have preferred trading up?

 

I can't see many teams looking to trade all the way back into the 3rd round for a conditional 2nd round pick the following year lol.

 

Even if you include #21, there's no way you're getting high enough to even be in range for QB4.

Price for trading up vs price for Wentz. IMO you can probably get in range for one of Fields or Lance if you really wanted. But then again... I don't think the price for trading up would be prohibitive if you truly love the QB you are going for.

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2 hours ago, stitches said:

Yep, I like taking a shot on Wentz, but for the price I would have preferred trading up. Especially if we are preparing to take a step back next year(so far our FA activity suggests so). I don't mind it, I just think doing it with a rookie QB was a much more natural step.

 

Not for a single nanosecond do I believe Ballard & Reich are planning on / expecting to take a step back this year.

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4 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Not for a single nanosecond do I believe Ballard & Reich are planning on / expecting to take a step back this year.

I can't read their minds and there is still plenty of time to sign players but IMO if we don't make serious additions/re-signings to our passrush and LT and weapons it will be very hard not to take a step back no matter whether they expect it or not.

 

At this current moment with this current roster (even expecting some useful additions from the draft) I don't think it's unreasonable to expect us taking a step back. I personally would take the under on 11 wins pretty easily.

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1 minute ago, stitches said:

 I personally would take the under on 11 wins pretty easily.

 

The schedule is harder.  They might get to 11 wins with 17 games - 10-7 or 11-6 - but yeah, I could see them dropping a hair.

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2 hours ago, stitches said:

Yep, I like taking a shot on Wentz, but for the price I would have preferred trading up. Especially if we are preparing to take a step back next year(so far our FA activity suggests so). I don't mind it, I just think doing it with a rookie QB was a much more natural step.

Blows my mind that the majority of this forum acts as if Wentz is a guaranteed plus

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3 minutes ago, tvturner said:

Blows my mind that the majority of this forum acts as if Wentz is a guaranteed plus

I've been thinking... What do people think are the chances that:

-Wentz returns to MVP form?

-Wentz gets back to 2018-2019 levels of play(i.e. around top 12 QB)?

-Wentz continues to spiral down and fails?

 

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10 minutes ago, stitches said:

I've been thinking... What do people think are the chances that:

-Wentz returns to MVP form?

-Wentz gets back to 2018-2019 levels of play(i.e. around top 12 QB)?

-Wentz continues to spiral down and fails?

 

I'd say his days as an MVP type QB are over 

 

His peak is probably in the top 7-12 QB range

 

His DVOA drops from 2017 have been drastic, and it's not just the "bad roster" at fault

 

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15 minutes ago, stitches said:

I've been thinking... What do people think are the chances that:

-Wentz returns to MVP form?

-Wentz gets back to 2018-2019 levels of play(i.e. around top 12 QB)?

-Wentz continues to spiral down and fails?

 

I think at minimum — especially this first year — Wentz should return to 18/19 levels (top-12ish).   Then hopefully, in 22, he returns to his best form.   
 

It’s not that he’ll be surrounded by better players, but I hope he’ll be in a better support system, from the coaching staff to the locker room, our culture, will be what does the trick. 
 

That’s my hope...  

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

I can't read their minds and there is still plenty of time to sign players but IMO if we don't make serious additions/re-signings to our passrush and LT and weapons it will be very hard not to take a step back no matter whether they expect it or not.

 

At this current moment with this current roster (even expecting some useful additions from the draft) I don't think it's unreasonable to expect us taking a step back. I personally would take the under on 11 wins pretty easily.

This team could have easily added the top 5 FAs this year and STILL finish with less than 11 wins.

  The under is a no-brainer.

Even if we would have brought in Watson, Trent Williams, and pass rusher of your choice.

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I always question these kind of stories. I really doubt Ballard would trade up. He looks for individual pieces he doesn’t make over risky decisions. I really had the idea that he would go with a free agent quarterback. I keep saying as well that Ballard is probably going to trade down lower to get more pics if he doesn’t get a left tackle in free agency he can get one of the second round because offensive tackles are deep in this draft

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4 hours ago, tvturner said:

Would've preferred the trade up

 

4 hours ago, stitches said:

Yep, I like taking a shot on Wentz, but for the price I would have preferred trading up. Especially if we are preparing to take a step back next year(so far our FA activity suggests so). I don't mind it, I just think doing it with a rookie QB was a much more natural step.

 

It woulda been fun having a Top Rook but highly doubt we could've traded up for Wilson or Fields. Even Lance might have been too pricey and not crazy bout settling for the QB from Bama.

 

We should be  probably better off short term with Wentz rather than a rookie, anyway, and Wentz is not old, he's in his prime if plays like he did before 2020....and I think he will.

So I think we should have good QB play from Wentz for a number of seasons.

 

I just hope he has some playmaking weapons to throw to.

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4 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

 

It woulda been fun having a Top Rook but highly doubt we could've traded up for Wilson or Fields. Even Lance might have been too pricey and not crazy bout settling for the QB from Bama.

 

We should be  probably better off short term with Wentz rather than a rookie, anyway, and Wentz is not old, he's in his prime if plays like he did before 2020....and I think he will.

So I think we should have good QB play from Wentz for a number of seasons.

 

I just hope he has some playmaking weapons to throw to.

Guess that just leaves the best in the class Mac Jones 

 

Dog Smile GIF

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2 hours ago, stitches said:

I can't read their minds and there is still plenty of time to sign players but IMO if we don't make serious additions/re-signings to our passrush and LT and weapons it will be very hard not to take a step back no matter whether they expect it or not.

 

At this current moment with this current roster (even expecting some useful additions from the draft) I don't think it's unreasonable to expect us taking a step back. I personally would take the under on 11 wins pretty easily.

 

Something to be said for player development too.  Just assuming players stay the same as they have been is not always accurate.  I don't it is unreasonable at all to think the Lewis could be better this year than a 33 year old Justin Houston.  

 

I also believe that the roster today will not be the same as it is next week. 

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