Final Free Agency Thread (Top Remaining Options)

[NewColtsFan]

35 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

 

I agree they won't get rid of him until they have to make cap room, they trade him, or sometime in august

Just to be sure...   I just double checked. 
 

1.).  Philly is in terrible shape for their cap.   Spotrac has then 26th with just  $6+ mill to operate. 
 

2.).  Ertz’s contract was badly structured.  This is the 5th year of a 5-year deal (5/42.5) and his contract would count over $12.5 mill if they keep him, and even if they cut him, it’s a Dead Cap Hit of nearly $7.8 mill.   In year 5?!?   Who set that up?  Damned either way.  I can’t recall Indy with a contract like that in my 9 years as a fan.   We run a lean tight ship!
 

3.  This is why Ballard can just sit back and wait.   Philly has to make a call one way or another.   Ballard can just be patient. 

[NewColtsFan]

25 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Because I said I don't understand why this is not done yet? Im not exactly losing sleep on whether or not we get Ertz.

 

No.  You don’t even remember what you wrote roughly an hour ago.   You wrote complaining why wasn’t Ertz’s agent playing hardball?   But you had no way of knowing either way. 

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'd say 8.6, plus Philly's current salary cap space of 6M, is his leverage. They had to let a lot of folks go, and still need to fill a lot of holes.

Doubt they cut him. It's been reported by multiple sources that multiple teams have offered a 5th, or conditional 5th for him. Roseman has stayed firm, asking for a 3rd. I'm guessing Frank has offered a 5th too, which is why a deal hasn't got done.

It's been reported several times that Ertz isn't happy, and wants out. It was also leaked/reported that Philly needed to move him for cap reasons and couldn't extend him (they can't afford to keep him and let him go for nothing after 21).

 

As far as timing, sure they can hold fast, and wait till the draft or after. But their position likely gets worse. Bills and Chargers reportedly offered a 5th, and Roseman held strong to a 3rd. Buffalo and LA then went another direction. Now, the interest, at least what's been reported, is limited to the Colts. The longer it goes, the better it gets for Indy (or other teams), and worse for Philly. Indy could choose to draft a guy in the middle rounds, and then Philly might not even get a 5th. There's just not a ton of teams that want to give up draft picks for a 30 year old TE in a contract year coming off injury and missing half the season.

I know Ertz isn’t happy.  My point is that Ertz can afford to be patient.   He’s going to get what he wants soon enough.  Don’t think it matters if it’s today, next week, during the draft or after.  Ertz should win this stalemate. 

As you and I (in another post) have noted, Philly is stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I know Ertz isn’t happy.  My point is that Ertz can afford to be patient.   He’s going to get what he wants soon enough.  Don’t think it matters if it’s today, next week, during the draft or after.  Ertz should win this stalemate. 

As you and I (in another post) have noted, Philly is stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

Yup. I thought you were saying Philly shouldn't be in any rush.

 

Ertz will win regardless, as we all know Philly can't really afford to keep him or resign him after this year anyway.

 

If I'm honest, I'm a bit surprised Indy is going after him. I understand the desire to get him on a one year rental, but really can't see Ballard giving him big or long term extension. I think Philly gave him permission to seek a trade, and if that's correct, he's been talking with suitors. I wonder what Ertz's agent has communicated to potential teams in terms of his preferred extension terms, and if his terms have turned any teams off.

[richard pallo]

19 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Because I said I don't understand why this is not done yet? Im not exactly losing sleep on whether or not we get Ertz.

 

If we are truly the only ones still interested in trading them a 5th and they are just sitting there hoping for more they are dumber than I thought.  Waiting makes no sense considering their situation.  Our 5th could disappear tomorrow.  Then they get nothing.  And Rossman is getting paid big money for taking chances like this?  I’am glad he ‘s not our GM that’s for sure. 

[NewColtsFan]

31 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. I thought you were saying Philly shouldn't be in any rush.

 

Ertz will win regardless, as we all know Philly can't really afford to keep him or resign him after this year anyway.

 

If I'm honest, I'm a bit surprised Indy is going after him. I understand the desire to get him on a one year rental, but really can't see Ballard giving him big or long term extension. I think Philly gave him permission to seek a trade, and if that's correct, he's been talking with suitors. I wonder what Ertz's agent has communicated to potential teams in terms of his preferred extension terms, and if his terms have turned any teams off.

Well...   my view of Philly has evolved some.  My comment about them not being in a hurry is only a short term position.  They don’t have to do a deal today, or next week.   But clearly they have to make a final decision soon enough.   Poop, or get off the pot.  
 

Ultimately, Philly has to decide.  And I wonder if Ertz’s agent would tell any team (other than Indy) that his client won’t restructure for a new team.  Forcing a release and Ertz signing with us, and then they more willingly restructure for the Colts.  
 

I’m with you, I don’t see CB giving Ertz much of a deal.  Two years — tops, but more likely 1-year.   5/6 million?   Incentives? 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Right.   But whatever they do today, they can also do during the draft.   Feels like the one person not happy, isn’t Ertz or his agent.   It’s you, for reasons only you know. 

Not to belabor the point....   Losing sleep over a deal or not,  but 24 hours ago you were ready to trade a 4th round pick for Ertz.  When it was explained there was no reason to do that, you called it fair.  I called it unnecessary.   You continued to defend your position.  
 

Now you say you don’t care.   And here we are. 

[richard pallo]

50 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. I thought you were saying Philly shouldn't be in any rush.

 

Ertz will win regardless, as we all know Philly can't really afford to keep him or resign him after this year anyway.

 

If I'm honest, I'm a bit surprised Indy is going after him. I understand the desire to get him on a one year rental, but really can't see Ballard giving him big or long term extension. I think Philly gave him permission to seek a trade, and if that's correct, he's been talking with suitors. I wonder what Ertz's agent has communicated to potential teams in terms of his preferred extension terms, and if his terms have turned any teams off.

Maybe Ballard will lose patience and give Cleveland a call about Nkoju.  He’s only 25 and I believe his contract is cheaper.  You never know.  Can’t hurt to have a conversation.

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well...   my view of Philly has evolved some.  My comment about them not being in a hurry is only a short term position.  They don’t have to do a deal today, or next week.   But clearly they have to make a final decision soon enough.   Poop, or get off the pot.  
 

Ultimately, Philly has to decide.  And I wonder if Ertz’s agent would tell any team (other than Indy) that his client won’t restructure for a new team.  Forcing a release and Ertz signing with us, and then they more willingly restructure for the Colts.  
 

I’m with you, I don’t see CB giving Ertz much of a deal.  Two years — tops, but more likely 1-year.   5/6 million?   Incentives? 

So I think the way it would play out with a trade is that we'd owe him around 5M for 21. He'd still collect like 7.5 from Philly in dead cap. Right now, ST has a valuation of 9.4M on Ertz, which I think is high, but is probably what he wants (if not 10M/y). 

 

I could see Ballard perhaps doing a restructure/extension for 2 additional years. Something like 21 over 3 years (5+8+8 turned into 7+7+7, or 8+7+6, or 9+6+6) base, with up to 1M in NLTBE incentives. 14 guaranteed front loaded.

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Maybe Ballard will lose patience and give Cleveland a call about Nkoju.  He’s only 25 and I believe his contract is cheaper.  You never know.  Can’t hurt to have a conversation.

Njoku is entering his 5th year option year (getting paid 6M). He's also coming off 2 straight years of injury (2019 concussion/wrist, 2020 knee). Because he's a 5th year guy, his entire 2021 salary (6M) is guaranteed/dead cap.

 

Not sure what Cleveland would want though. He's a former 1st round pick, and he'd be basically paid for (for 21). So being Cleveland wouldn't save any cap space, I'm guessing they would want at least a 3rd if not 2nd.

[CR91]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

No.  You don’t even remember what you wrote roughly an hour ago.   You wrote complaining why wasn’t Ertz’s agent playing hardball?   But you had no way of knowing. 

 

Ok I don't know. All I'm saying is I just don't see why the eagles need to be dragging their feet on this. They don't have the money to hold on to Ertz.

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Ok I don't know. All I'm saying is I just don't see why the eagles need to be dragging their feet on this. They don't have the money to hold on to Ertz.

They’re dragging their feet hoping someone makes them an offer.   I’m not sure they’ve had any offers?    I think the other teams realize Philly is damned either way.   They can’t afford to keep Ertz and cutting him hurts badly too.   
 

The Eagles two choices are terrible or awful.  Pick your poison.   Sucks to be them.   The contract they gave him is VERY team unfriendly.

[CR91]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

They’re dragging their feet hoping someone makes them an offer.   I’m not sure they’ve had any offers?    I think the other teams realize Philly is damned either way.   They can’t afford to keep Ertz and cutting him hurts badly too.   
 

The Eagles two choices are terrible or awful.  Pick your poison.   Sucks to be them.   The contract they gave him is VERY team unfriendly.

 

That is definitely the case. You would think they would just accept the colts offer if the rumors are true.

[SaturdayAllDay]

11 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Ok I don't know. All I'm saying is I just don't see why the eagles need to be dragging their feet on this. They don't have the money to hold on to Ertz.

Its possible it could be that they are waiting until after the draft in hopes that a team doesnt find their TE solution in the draft and decides to pay a higher price. They could even end up waiting it out until August in hopes that a team loses a TE to injury and is desperate enough to offer up a decent pick. 

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

That is definitely the case. You would think they would just accept the colts offer if the rumors are true.

Take a look at the very good post by @SaturdayAllDay    I think he’s got it pretty close.   Certainly better than me.  

[CR91]

21 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Its possible it could be that they are waiting until after the draft in hopes that a team doesnt find their TE solution in the draft and decides to pay a higher price. They could even end up waiting it out until August in hopes that a team loses a TE to injury and is desperate enough to offer up a decent pick. 

 

Seems kinda risky imo. Could be no buyers at that point and then all they have is a disgruntled player.

[EastStreet]

36 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Its possible it could be that they are waiting until after the draft in hopes that a team doesnt find their TE solution in the draft and decides to pay a higher price. They could even end up waiting it out until August in hopes that a team loses a TE to injury and is desperate enough to offer up a decent pick. 

IDK. They need the 5M cap savings sooner than August, so not sure they can sweat it out that long. They have a lot of wholes to fill, and won't be able to do all that in the draft. And the longer they wait, the FAs available to fill their holes will dry up. And if they do wait, and nobody bites, then they'll have to cut him, scramble to fill holes, and get nothing in return.

 

Dolphins, Jags, Rams, Panthers, Texans, and Titans all have TE as a primary need.

Titans, Dolphins, Texans and Rams really can't afford to pick him up without freeing up space, so more than likely, they draft.

That leaves the Panthers and Jags as a possible suitors. 

[csmopar]

5 hours ago, EastStreet said:

IDK. They need the 5M cap savings sooner than August, so not sure they can sweat it out that long. They have a lot of wholes to fill, and won't be able to do all that in the draft. And the longer they wait, the FAs available to fill their holes will dry up. And if they do wait, and nobody bites, then they'll have to cut him, scramble to fill holes, and get nothing in return.

 

Dolphins, Jags, Rams, Panthers, Texans, and Titans all have TE as a primary need.

Titans, Dolphins, Texans and Rams really can't afford to pick him up without freeing up space, so more than likely, they draft.

That leaves the Panthers and Jags as a possible suitors. 

I agree. But they could wait until after June 1 or designate him a post June 1 cut and reap a bit more savings that way. They can also Delay signing their draft picks a while too

[w87r]

7 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Njoku is entering his 5th year option year (getting paid 6M). He's also coming off 2 straight years of injury (2019 concussion/wrist, 2020 knee). Because he's a 5th year guy, his entire 2021 salary (6M) is guaranteed/dead cap.

 

Not sure what Cleveland would want though. He's a former 1st round pick, and he'd be basically paid for (for 21). So being Cleveland wouldn't save any cap space, I'm guessing they would want at least a 3rd if not 2nd.

His contract is guaranteed, but the Browns wouldn't be on the hook for any of it if they traded him.

 

They would clear all $6m in cap space.

 

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Just to be sure...   I just double checked. 
 

1.).  Philly is in terrible shape for their cap.   Spotrac has then 26th with just  $6+ mill to operate. 
 

2.).  Ertz’s contract was badly structured.  This is the 5th year of a 5-year deal (5/42.5) and his contract would count over $12.5 mill if they keep him, and even if they cut him, it’s a Dead Cap Hit of nearly $7.8 mill.   In year 5?!?   Who set that up?  Damned either way.  I can’t recall Indy with a contract like that in my 9 years as a fan.   We run a lean tight ship!
 

3.  This is why Ballard can just sit back and wait.   Philly has to make a call one way or another.   Ballard can just be patient. 

This is what I was going to post. NCF took care of it though. Its not $8m its $12m and only about $5m in saved cap. 

 

Now like csmopar said they could designate him a post June 1st cut and save more. 

 

Philly did do themselves a little favor and trade down from #6 to #12 and save about $1.8m on cost of 1st round draft pick though.((6)$4.9m - (12)$3.1m)

[csmopar]

54 minutes ago, w87r said:

His contract is guaranteed, but the Browns wouldn't be on the hook for any of it if they traded him.

 

They would clear all $6m in cap space.

 

This is what I was going to post. NCF took care of it though. Its not $8m its $12m and only about $5m in saved cap. 

 

Now like csmopar said they could designate him a post June 1st cut and save more. 

 

Philly did do themselves a little favor and trade down from #6 to #12 and save about $1.8m on cost of 1st round draft pick though.((6)$4.9m - (12)$3.1m)

Right but didn’t they get more picks this year? 

[CR91]

 

[dw49]

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Just to be sure...   I just double checked. 
 

1.).  Philly is in terrible shape for their cap.   Spotrac has then 26th with just  $6+ mill to operate. 
 

2.).  Ertz’s contract was badly structured.  This is the 5th year of a 5-year deal (5/42.5) and his contract would count over $12.5 mill if they keep him, and even if they cut him, it’s a Dead Cap Hit of nearly $7.8 mill.   In year 5?!?   Who set that up?  Damned either way.  I can’t recall Indy with a contract like that in my 9 years as a fan.   We run a lean tight ship!
 

3.  This is why Ballard can just sit back and wait.   Philly has to make a call one way or another.   Ballard can just be patient. 

It probably wasn't a poorly "set up" contract to begin with.  This is what happens when you restructure contracts. You can push it down the road but sooner or later you pay the "salary cap piper." In 2017 they turned 3.225 mill from salary to bonus. In 2019 they turned 7.2 mill from salary to bonus. That added 4.2 million to this years cap hit. What's a little different  is how they kicked 1,774,000 into both 2022 and 2023 as "pro-rated " bonus. That's the reason the dead cap hit is 7.70 mill instead of just the 4.22 mill they created in the 2 restructures. It's 4.22+ 1.74+1.74. It's explained as 2022 and 2023 are "* years" that automatically void. I wonder if Tom Brady's contract also has some "* years" to spread TB's future cap hits more evenly going forward ? Surprised they allow this kind of stuff ....

[CR91]

 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

Saw that

[CR91]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Saw that

 

I was guessing Pittsburgh.

[CR91]

 

[w87r]

8 hours ago, csmopar said:

Right but didn’t they get more picks this year? 

They swapped a 5th for a 4th and picked up a 2022 1st. So don't have more picks in 2021 than prior to deal.

 

That price differential is minimal and even less when you factor in neither are hitting top 51 when signed either.

[csmopar]

25 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Dumb move by the Panthers here. 

[Zoltan]

47 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Dumb move by the Panthers here. 

How So?

[csmopar]

6 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

How So?

Sam Darnold is garbage. Has really never shown much IMO. 

6 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

How S

[MPStack]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Dumb move by the Panthers here. 

No dumber than signing Teddy to that contract! 

[Zoltan]

20 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Sam Darnold is garbage. Has really never shown much IMO. 

I think it's still a little early (he's only 23 will be 24 by start of the season) to call him garbage, I mean the talent around him has been terrible, his most productive RB has been Frank Gore not to mention the Adam Gase effect. I will be interested to see how he does with Joe Brady and Matt Rhule.

[EastStreet]

11 hours ago, csmopar said:

I agree. But they could wait until after June 1 or designate him a post June 1 cut and reap a bit more savings that way. They can also Delay signing their draft picks a while too

Not really worried about signing their draft picks. It's more about signing some FAs before the pickings get slimmer.

 

And cutting him post 6-1 might save them a few dollars, but parting with him and not getting even a 5th rounder would be pretty silly. It'll be interesting.

[EastStreet]

10 hours ago, w87r said:

His contract is guaranteed, but the Browns wouldn't be on the hook for any of it if they traded him.

 

They would clear all $6m in cap space.

I was wondering that, so I did a trade on sportrac. It did not impact their deadcap.

[richard pallo]

Okay I'm ready for some Colt's news this week.  Come on Chris!

[CR91]

 

[richard pallo]

10 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Go in a different direction and sign Clowney.  Skip the easy way out and make a bold move.  But I bet we sign Houston.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Wouldn’t it be something if Houston pulls a Autry and signs with another team.  Leaving us at the altar.  Now what does Ballard do?   Who’s plan B?

[danlhart87]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Wouldn’t it be something if Houston pulls a Autry and signs with another team.  Leaving us at the altar.  Now what does Ballard do?   Who’s plan B?

Did you just make a football - wedding analogy 

[richard pallo]

37 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Did you just make a football - wedding analogy 

I sure did.  Pretty clever eh!  Lol