Ballard's LONG plan to build a "solid" football team

[GoColts8818]

5 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

But Tolzien being the "opening day" starter in 2017 was a result of not addressing QB until late in TC. It was either intentional or irresponsible because Luck didn't even throw all offseason. But nobody even considers that a Ballard season...and it directly led to the monster 2018 draft...so framing it as part of some unique disadvantage is disingenuous. 

 

One of those two seasons they made the playoffs (and the only playoff win) was with Luck. Luck was 8-8 in 2016...with what everyone considers to be a garbage team left behind by Grigson. So, two full offseasons later, including ridiculous draft capital from the 2017 season, plenty of available cap space to use, and with a new coaching staff, they improved to 10-6 against the NFL's easiest schedule. And they beat HOU in the playoffs before getting out-classed by KC.

 

There was certainly improvement and a much upgraded roster, but I don't think it was a unique accomplishment. John Lynch, in his only season with a healthy Jimmy G, went 13-3 and nearly won the SB. That was his 3rd season. Definitely more impressive if we are comparing GMs (based on success).

 

I have never said anything remotely comparable to Ballard sucks. I think he is a good GM. But I am waiting to see what happens with Wentz. I have said that this season will be the true test. But after that, this Luck retirement disadvantage will no longer be valid. 

Because they expected to have Andrew Luck and thought he was only going to miss a little bit of time at that point in time.  As late as the Bengals pre-season game Irsay was on TV saying Luck would be back soon.  
 

Yes one of the years they had Luck they made the playoffs because that’s how it was supposed to work.  He was the guy he built the team around for three years and only had him one of those years and won a playoff game and were a team on the rise when they had him.  The one year he didn’t have Luck and knew he wouldn’t have him in enough time to do something about it the Colts made the playoffs.  The two years they didn’t were the two years he lost Luck after he built the team around him too late to really do something about it.  
 

I agree after this season the talk about Luck goes out the window but it’s not after this season yet. So right now Ballard is being graded on a bit of a curve because of all the Luck stuff.  Still even with the curve the one year he had the guy the team was built around they made the playoffs and were a team on the rise and the one year he had a chance to reshape the team they were right back in the playoffs.  So he’s done a good job.  Even the year in between when they lost Luck the bottom didn’t fall out and that’s something that would have killed most teams.  You don’t do that if you don’t have a roster of good players and you don’t do that without a good GM.
 

Maybe you aren’t one saying Ballard sucks because it’s become a more and more common theme since late last season around here and it’s just flat out not true.

[coming on strong]

It seems like Ballard thinks this team is super bowl ready without needing free agents . He might want to put Lewis at DE and turray as starters and have rock and rogers and Moore as starters at corner .  He may also think pascal Pittman and Campbell are good starters .   I think we just roll what what we have and do not sign any free agents .

[JediXMan]

Looks like LT might be the first pick at 21.

[aavmarine]

 

And this is why we will never win a Super Bowl under Ballard. For some reason he has the same thought process that Brad Pitt had in the movie "Money Ball". 2nd and 3rd tier players can win. Sorry, but NO!!!  I get tired of people who keep bringing up the Luck years and what could have been. None of this matters because it was the past. As far as people talking about patience or trust the binder, these are the same people, every year that say the same thing, same time. This is nothing but an excuse for the way Ballard acts, and an excuse of why we don't win the SB. Do we have players to sign next year? Yes, but are they winning us a SB? Our GM is willing to let possibly 6-7 starters walk for what reason? We already know it is not to replace them with better players. So, then why not just resign them, instead what seems like trying to teach them a lesson that nobody wants them except the Colts. Here is a question. If the Colts acted like the Pat's have done so far, who any of you have a problem with it? And remember the cap goes up another $40+ million next year.

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, coming on strong said:

It seems like Ballard thinks this team is super bowl ready without needing free agents . He might want to put Lewis at DE and turray as starters and have rock and rogers and Moore as starters at corner .  He may also think pascal Pittman and Campbell are good starters .   I think we just roll what what we have and do not sign any free agents .

He will most certainly sign free agents

[Myles]

32 minutes ago, aavmarine said:

 

And this is why we will never win a Super Bowl under Ballard. For some reason he has the same thought process that Brad Pitt had in the movie "Money Ball". 2nd and 3rd tier players can win. Sorry, but NO!!!  I get tired of people who keep bringing up the Luck years and what could have been. None of this matters because it was the past. As far as people talking about patience or trust the binder, these are the same people, every year that say the same thing, same time. This is nothing but an excuse for the way Ballard acts, and an excuse of why we don't win the SB. Do we have players to sign next year? Yes, but are they winning us a SB? Our GM is willing to let possibly 6-7 starters walk for what reason? We already know it is not to replace them with better players. So, then why not just resign them, instead what seems like trying to teach them a lesson that nobody wants them except the Colts. Here is a question. If the Colts acted like the Pat's have done so far, who any of you have a problem with it? And remember the cap goes up another $40+ million next year.

Stupid post.  

You want to be the Cardinals?   They brought in a bunch of free agents and trades last year.   They went 8-8.    The Colts brought in an old QB and went 11-5.    The Cardinals signed JJ Watt and AJ Green.   They lost their own Peterson.  Who do you think will win more games in 2021, the Colts or the Cardinals?

[aavmarine]

49 minutes ago, Myles said:

Stupid post.  

You want to be the Cardinals?   They brought in a bunch of free agents and trades last year.   They went 8-8.    The Colts brought in an old QB and went 11-5.    The Cardinals signed JJ Watt and AJ Green.   They lost their own Peterson.  Who do you think will win more games in 2021, the Colts or the Cardinals?

You are reaching. And No, it is not a stupid post. Your same argument can go towards Tampa Bay, Bills, Kansas, Green Bay. What happened? Funny how you put down post, but refuse to answer my questions. What upgrades have we done other than a questionable QB? Who is better still left out there than the starters we are willing to let walk?

[coming on strong]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

He will most certainly sign free agents

looking at whats left it looks like we would be better just building through the draft fuller just got signed . the players that will be left by tomorrow are C grade players who wouldnt be starters on this team but depth guys

[Lucky Colts Fan]

1 hour ago, aavmarine said:

You are reaching. And No, it is not a stupid post. Your same argument can go towards Tampa Bay, Bills, Kansas, Green Bay. What happened? Funny how you put down post, but refuse to answer my questions. What upgrades have we done other than a questionable QB? Who is better still left out there than the starters we are willing to let walk?

No, you are reaching.

 

Every single year, every single team “improves” over the previous year by letting a few guys go while picking up others in FA and the draft.

 

And every single year, there are jokers in every single fan base that think their GM didn’t do enough to make their team a SB contender. As if their GM isn’t competing with  the 31 other GMs for the same players...

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, coming on strong said:

looking at whats left it looks like we would be better just building through the draft fuller just got signed . the players that will be left by tomorrow are C grade players who wouldnt be starters on this team but depth guys

There are plenty of good players available. 

[#12.]

On 3/17/2021 at 2:04 PM, BlackTiger said:

I wonder if they are waiting to see how Wentz does before committing money to outside free agents.  

 

It makes sense.  Do you go all in before you know what you have at QB?

[BlackTiger]

Just now, #12. said:

 

It makes sense.  Do you go all in before you know what have at QB?

I don't think an outside player or two is going all in

[#12.]

Just now, BlackTiger said:

I don't think an outside player or two is going all in

 

Depends on who the two players are.

[BlackTiger]

19 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

Depends on who the two players are.

That's true, I don't think anyone expected the team to throw money around like crazy this year.  It looks like they are worse on paper right now though and some positions are drying up fast in free agency.

 

They might be gambling on Lewis and Turay being productive this year

[Moosejawcolt]

On 3/17/2021 at 12:04 PM, BlackTiger said:

I wonder if they are waiting to see how Wentz does before committing money to outside free agents.  I know he has never been super aggressive about this but we have not gotten past the elite teams in the AFC either.

 

I think they might have to take more risks to take the next step

They cant spend much money. They have 3 big contracts coming due

[aavmarine]

4 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

No, you are reaching.

 

Every single year, every single team “improves” over the previous year by letting a few guys go while picking up others in FA and the draft.

 

And every single year, there are jokers in every single fan base that think their GM didn’t do enough to make their team a SB contender. As if their GM isn’t competing with  the 31 other GMs for the same players...

Lol...Like the others, you are coming up with excuses. The problem with your rebuttal is that you never answered my question. Who is better out there that we can sign that is better than the players we are willing to let go, and that will come in and make us better than last year? Obviously you are one of the fans that keep repeating "Trust the binder", be patient. But yet have no idea wth your talking about. Get off the Ballard cult. He is not perfect. But like I said. As long as Ballard keeps believing in this Money Ball theory, we will never win a SB. 

[BlackTiger]

43 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

They cant spend much money. They have 3 big contracts coming due

The team is projected to have a lot of cap space once again in 2022.  The exact number isnt set yet but there is plenty for those guys and then some

[shasta519]

7 hours ago, Myles said:

Stupid post.  

You want to be the Cardinals?   They brought in a bunch of free agents and trades last year.   They went 8-8.    The Colts brought in an old QB and went 11-5.    The Cardinals signed JJ Watt and AJ Green.   They lost their own Peterson.  Who do you think will win more games in 2021, the Colts or the Cardinals?

The Colts also played the league’s easiest schedule last season. That doesn’t happen playing in the NFCW.

 

Assuming that they have somewhat even schedules this season, I think it’s a coin toss for who wins more games.

ARI was 5-3 at one point and then the offense went kaput (in part because Murray got hurt and stopped running nearly as much). KK might not be a great coach, but that team has enough talent to win a lot of games.

 

 

[shasta519]

42 minutes ago, aavmarine said:

Lol...Like the others, you are coming up with excuses. The problem with your rebuttal is that you never answered my question. Who is better out there that we can sign that is better than the players we are willing to let go, and that will come in and make us better than last year? Obviously you are one of the fans that keep repeating "Trust the binder", be patient. But yet have no idea wth your talking about. Get off the Ballard cult. He is not perfect. But like I said. As long as Ballard keeps believing in this Money Ball theory, we will never win a SB. 

It’s not really Money Ball because the Colts have money, unlike the A’s did. This is just how Ballard operates...and I think it’s fine to disagree with the overall approach. That’s what fans do.

 

Although we do have to consider the other side of the coin...that maybe players don’t want to come to Indy. I don’t know why that would be, but it could be a factor.

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, BlackTiger said:

That's true, I don't think anyone expected the team to throw money around like crazy this year.  It looks like they are worse on paper right now though and some positions are drying up fast in free agency.

 

They might be gambling on Lewis and Turay being productive this year

I didn’t expect that, but I did expect a prominent FA signing or two...with one of those perhaps being a guy that is top 2-3 at his position. There are just too many needs to address it via the draft. And that was the case before you factored in the outgoing talent.

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, BlackTiger said:

The team is projected to have a lot of cap space once again in 2022.  The exact number isnt set yet but there is plenty for those guys and then some

Smith ...Nelson and Leonard may take 55 to 60 million yearly to retain them

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Smith ...Nelson and Leonard may take 55 to 60 million yearly to retain them

More likely 45-50, but whatever it is, is what we’re willing to spend to keep those guys.  They important to what the Colts are building.

 

And if it turns out you’re right about the numbers it will be only because of the tremendous new TV money coming in 2023.   So we will be able to afford these contracts at the higher numbers. 

[austriancolt]

Ballard sitting on the sideline doing nothing is strange with some holes to fill. And it's not like that you have so splash out a lot of money to sign some decent guys that could help. Over the last 2 days we saw a lot of talented guys signed on cheap short term contracts. 

[CR91]

I think a few things need to be illustrated about Ballard's tenure.

 

2017 - No Andrew Luck and had to play Brissett two weeks being in the building.

 

2018 - Andrew Luck finally heathly after three years of dealing with injuries.

 

2019 - Andrew Luck eruptly retires and Brissett is forced to be the starter again

 

 2020 - A stop-gap at QB 

 

Teams dealing with one of these kind of adversities at the most important position in all of sports like the Jags, Jets, Browns and Lions for many years, their picking top 5 in the draft. The fact that we're actually talked about as contenders, should actually provide more merit to Ballard's stake as one of the best GMs in football.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

3 hours ago, aavmarine said:

Lol...Like the others, you are coming up with excuses. The problem with your rebuttal is that you never answered my question. Who is better out there that we can sign that is better than the players we are willing to let go, and that will come in and make us better than last year? Obviously you are one of the fans that keep repeating "Trust the binder", be patient. But yet have no idea wth your talking about. Get off the Ballard cult. He is not perfect. But like I said. As long as Ballard keeps believing in this Money Ball theory, we will never win a SB. 

 

I just tried to offer you some perspective because your posts were a little over-the-top.

 

Like the above post... loser money ball binder cult...

 

Label me whatever you want.  Enjoy your offseason.  

[coltsfeva]

23 hours ago, coltsva said:

I would phrase what Ballard is trying to build as "long term SUSTAINED" success.

 

Not build, have success, drop off, rebuild.

  Agree totally. I’ll draw the analogy of building a fire: you can keep throwing paper or kindling on it and it will be ablaze quickly but will die out soon. Or you can build gradually and have it burn all night.

    People assume that the norm is to have a team win the SB, year after year, when it is, in fact, an outlier. Even NE went 10 years without winning a SB.

    Another thing that gets assumed is that guys like Turay, Lewis,Ya Sin, Campbell and Banagu are all busts or TY is “done”.  There are some playmakers on this team but human nature is to believe the “grass is always greener”.
    If Ballard gets us a 10 year starter at LT, a disruptive DE and a possible starter (or even depth) at CB and TE in the draft, I’ll be excited about this year, especially if Wentz plays well. 

 

[BlackTiger]

8 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Smith ...Nelson and Leonard may take 55 to 60 million yearly to retain them

The  team will have well over that

[colts89]

I think I more or less get Ballard's tactics, but it also does require that he continues to hit almost every draft pick going forward.

 

Irsay already came out and said he wanted a few things for the team and not all of those wants can be solved via the draft (we hopefully won't have a first rounders next year and don't have our third this year)

 

The dude works in the shadows though and is probably gonna make a few moves, just probably not the moves we are thinking or that the media can track well of ala Buckner last year

[Myles]

10 hours ago, shasta519 said:

It’s not really Money Ball because the Colts have money, unlike the A’s did. This is just how Ballard operates...and I think it’s fine to disagree with the overall approach. That’s what fans do.

 

Although we do have to consider the other side of the coin...that maybe players don’t want to come to Indy. I don’t know why that would be, but it could be a factor.

Perhaps Irsay has instructed Ballard to not spend too much.   Irsay is the boss.

[throwing BBZ]

8 hours ago, austriancolt said:

Ballard sitting on the sideline doing nothing is strange with some holes to fill. And it's not like that you have so splash out a lot of money to sign some decent guys that could help. Over the last 2 days we saw a lot of talented guys signed on cheap short term contracts. 

 

 It is only strange if YOU believe the players you need are gone.
And thereare always players they wanted, and bid on, that chose to go where They felt better about . And there are guys hoping we now want them.
 And yes i have been checking 20 times a day for a signing! 
 
 IMO, he wants to sign released players so he can get a few comp picks from a few of our free agent losses. After we pay our Top talent, we are going to need a lot of rookie contracts on the roster. Lots of draft picks = a higher chance to hit on them and Ballard trusts there are good FB players throughout the draft. 
 Pascall has been developed into a really solid playmaker and i think he gets a sizeable contract before camp that will make for lots of moaning here.

[groundnpound]

Little OT, but I'm going to bail on this board folks. Lot of tremendous posters with football knowledge, but I just got a 2 paragraph warning for calling  mcdaniel's, Josh mcdickhead. I've also seen threads suspended due to someone making an "offensive post." Seems suspending the poster would make more sense than suspending the topic, but this seems to be where we are with some platforms nowadays. Have a great season all, it's been fun. Go Colts!

[throwing BBZ]

26 minutes ago, Myles said:

Perhaps Irsay has instructed Ballard to not spend too much.   Irsay is the boss.

 

  Wouldn't the Business Plan be Ballard and his Capologist laying out the Ca$h needs anticipated for contracts, signing bonuses, at least 2 years ahead so Irsay can be ready to sign the checks. There are mandatory spending levels in the NFL and those were adjusted slightly upwards recently i recall. And Irsay has a history of paying up when needed.

[Myles]

20 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Wouldn't the Business Plan be Ballard and his Capologist laying out the Ca$h needs anticipated for contracts, signing bonuses, at least 2 years ahead so Irsay can be ready to sign the checks. There are mandatory spending levels in the NFL and those were adjusted slightly upwards recently i recall. And Irsay has a history of paying up when needed.

Yeah, I agree, but Irsay has always been somewhat hands on.  I'm sure he and Ballard talk $$.  

[BlackTiger]

41 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 It is only strange if YOU believe the players you need are gone.
And thereare always players they wanted, and bid on, that chose to go where They felt better about . And there are guys hoping we now want them.
 And yes i have been checking 20 times a day for a signing! 
 
 IMO, he wants to sign released players so he can get a few comp picks from a few of our free agent losses. After we pay our Top talent, we are going to need a lot of rookie contracts on the roster. Lots of draft picks = a higher chance to hit on them and Ballard trusts there are good FB players throughout the draft. 
 Pascall has been developed into a really solid playmaker and i think he gets a sizeable contract before camp that will make for lots of moaning here.

Since you laughed

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2022/

 

They will have to fill the roster some, but cap space isnt an issue next year.   some of the unfilled spots should go to draft picks too

[shasta519]

9 hours ago, CR91 said:

I think a few things need to be illustrated about Ballard's tenure.

 

2017 - No Andrew Luck and had to play Brissett two weeks being in the building.

 

2018 - Andrew Luck finally heathly after three years of dealing with injuries.

 

2019 - Andrew Luck eruptly retires and Brissett is forced to be the starter again

 

 2020 - A stop-gap at QB 

 

Teams dealing with one of these kind of adversities at the most important position in all of sports like the Jags, Jets, Browns and Lions for many years, their picking top 5 in the draft. The fact that we're actually talked about as contenders, should actually provide more merit to Ballard's stake as one of the best GMs in football.

 

Of course he's better than a GM than David Caldwell, Joe Douglas, Sashi Brown or Bob Quinn. Nobody would argue otherwise.

 

But using the CLE example, is he better than Andrew Berry? I don't know. Berry took over CLE last year, hired Stefanski and matched the (1) playoff win that Ballard has had in his tenure.

 

What about his counterpart in KC, Brett Veach? How could anyone make that argument? He's been to an AFCG and (2) SBs since he took over. He didn't have QB issues...but he's also the reason they didn't have QB issues because he was the catalyst for drafting Mahomes.

 

I think this becomes a discussion when people make this claim that he is already one of the best (if not the best) GMs in the NFL. He has made some outstanding moves and has built a playoff team, so he is on that trajectory. But I totally get why people would want to actually see commensurate team results before getting on board with the notion that he is this elite GM.

 

For now, all this talk of being an actual contender is just talk until they prove that is truly the case. And for Ballard to be in the top group, that (at the very least) means playoff wins. And I think that's what people want to see. And this upcoming season (and next) will either strengthen the pedestal he is on...OR knock it down a few pegs. They made their play at QB...and now we have to see it play out.

[CR91]

4 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Of course he's better than a GM than David Caldwell, Joe Douglas, Sashi Brown or Bob Quinn. Nobody would argue otherwise.

 

But using the CLE example, is he better than Andrew Berry? I don't know. Berry took over CLE last year, hired Stefanski and matched the (1) playoff win that Ballard has had in his tenure.

 

What about his counterpart in KC, Brett Veach? How could anyone make that argument? He's been to an AFCG and (2) SBs since he took over. He didn't have QB issues...but he's also the reason they didn't have QB issues because he was the catalyst for drafting Mahomes.

 

I think this becomes a discussion when people make this claim that he is already one of the best (if not the best) GMs in the NFL. He has made some outstanding moves and has built a playoff team, so he is on that trajectory. But I totally get why people would want to actually see commensurate team results before getting on board with the notion that he is this elite GM.

 

For now, all this talk of being an actual contender is just talk until they prove that is truly the case. And for Ballard to be in the top group, that (at the very least) means playoff wins. And I think that's what people want to see. And this upcoming season (and next) will either strengthen the pedestal he is on...OR knock it down a few pegs. They made their play at QB...and now we have to see it play out.

 

No one knew Mahomes would be that good. No one. Ask Tyreek hill. He thought he was trash when he got there. That's a one in a million shot.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

Perhaps Irsay has instructed Ballard to not spend too much.   Irsay is the boss.

 

Perhaps. But that would definitely open up other questions. If you crunch the numbers for cash spending since 2017 (not cap spending), I think the Colts would definitely near the bottom of the league. They were last from 2017-2018. And even with having to sign JB and Rivers, as well as the DeFo deal), I doubt they have climbed the list significantly.

 

Couple this Ballard's propensity to use more team-friendly contract structures (no signing bonuses)...and it's at least curious.

 

But most likely, it's just that Ballard is incredibly prudent. The Colts are nearly a $3B brand...I find it hard to believe that Irsay would have a cash flow problem, even with COVID.

[shasta519]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

No one knew Mahomes would be that good. No one. Ask Tyreek hill. He thought he was trash when he got there. That's a one in a million shot.

 

No one knew? I don't think Tyreek Hill speaks for the KC organization haha.

 

Veach loved Mahomes and was able to convince Dorsey and Reid that he was the guy...to the point that they would trade up to get Mahomes. Then a year later...they would ship out Alex Smith and hand over the team to Mahomes. They obviously had tremendously high hopes for him.  

 

On a smaller scale, this would be akin to saying nobody knew Leonard would be as good as he is...and Ballard just got lucky. 

 

[CR91]

8 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

No one knew? I don't think Tyreek Hill speaks for the KC organization haha.

 

Veach loved Mahomes and was able to convince Dorsey and Reid that he was the guy...to the point that they would trade up to get Mahomes. Then a year later...they would ship out Alex Smith and hand over the team to Mahomes. They obviously had tremendously high hopes for him.  

 

On a smaller scale, this would be akin to saying nobody knew Leonard would be as good as he is...and Ballard just got lucky. 

 

 

He did get lucky. No one knows who's gonna be a player no matter how much research you put on a guy. 

[jmac_48]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

Perhaps Irsay has instructed Ballard to not spend too much.   Irsay is the boss.

Actually, I think it is Ballard who's saying when to spend. I saw an article yesterday or the day before where Irsay said over the past few years he was pushing for money to be spent for different players and Ballard said it wasn't fiscally responsible and gave reasons and Irsay gave in.

Irsay may be the BOSS but not sure he has all the say on spending and who to spend on, I would say Irsay trusts Ballard a whole lot.