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Nelson can make 13 mil next year


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1 hour ago, Myles said:

I was very happy taking him at 6.   I also think he may be the best guard in the league.  He also did well at LT for the snaps he played there.  

Thats my point. U think he is the beat guard in football. In order for me to invest the money that the Colts r about to, he has to be without a doubt head and shoulders above his next rival at the guard position. I just dont beleive in investing that amount of money in the guard position.  What do u think the Colts would get in a trade for Nelson? Just curious.

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49 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Thats my point. U think he is the beat guard in football. In order for me to invest the money that the Colts r about to, he has to be without a doubt head and shoulders above his next rival at the guard position. I just dont beleive in investing that amount of money in the guard position.  What do u think the Colts would get in a trade for Nelson? Just curious.

I disagree about that.   It is very rare that any player at any position is head and shoulders over number 2.  

 

I think the Colts could easily trade Nelson for a first round pick plus additional picks.   It'd be silly to do it though.  

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14 minutes ago, Myles said:

I disagree about that.   It is very rare that any player at any position is head and shoulders over number 2.  

 

I think the Colts could easily trade Nelson for a first round pick plus additional picks.   It'd be silly to do it though.  

I am not saying to trade him but if someone offered me a top 3 man corner, I would do it in a heart beat. The point I was making is that I dont think a lot of teams would trade a 1st round pick for him knowing he is going to want a monster contract. I dont think a lot of teams value a guard at that price.

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1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I am not saying to trade him but if someone offered me a top 3 man corner, I would do it in a heart beat. The point I was making is that I dont think a lot of teams would trade a 1st round pick for him knowing he is going to want a monster contract. I dont think a lot of teams value a guard at that price.

OR

We keep Nelson and draft a CB

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Just now, danlhart87 said:

OR

We keep Nelson and draft a CB

I never ever said trade Nelson. I however said  I would for top man corner. It is easy to say draft a corner. We tried with Sin and that is not looking good and he is no where near to becoming a top man corner. He is not even an average zone corner.

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1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I never ever said trade Nelson. I however said  I would for top man corner. It is easy to say draft a corner. We tried with Sin and that is not looking good and he is no where near to becoming a top man corner. He is not even an average zone corner.

Not every Ballard pick has been gold but he has a good success rate

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45 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I am not saying to trade him but if someone offered me a top 3 man corner, I would do it in a heart beat. The point I was making is that I dont think a lot of teams would trade a 1st round pick for him knowing he is going to want a monster contract. I dont think a lot of teams value a guard at that price.

 

Nelson's jersey is the only current Colt jersey I own. However, I think it'd be silly not to consider trading him for Tre White if the Bills called and offered that.

 

I don't understand the laughing emoji to this post. No one is saying that this is something that would or should happen. Just seems like people are trying to determine Nelson's value via hypotheticals.

 

I disagree with Moose's earlier post that Nelson shouldn't get top money though. As someone else stated, it's never as cut and dry as being able to rank players and pay them according to that.

 

Plus, it always depends on who signs and when. The 5th best player might set the market with his extension, but when the 4 better players in front of him then set the market again, he's right back to being paid at value. Even if you don't think that Nelson is the best guard in the league, giving him a market setting deal now doesn't mean that he will still be the highest paid 2-3 years into it.

 

Edit: Just seen who laugh reacted and it makes perfect sense now...

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7 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Yeah and if u r a top 6 pick at guard, u better be the best at your postion and it should not be debatable. That is my issue with investing a huge amount of money at the guard postion. I beleive Teller is a 2nd rounder. U can find good guards later in the draft. For me to give Neslon LT tackle money, he needs to viewed as the best at his position by a wide margin. Similar to Aaron Donald. He is seen as the best DT and no one is close. I know fans on this forum fawn over Nelson. However, lets say the Colts were to trade Nelson today. I wonder what the market would b for a guard who is going to demand 20 million a year? I feel it would be very small and that how is how I gauge his value. Thats just me.

I agree a top 10 pick on a guard is not standard, and any guard taken top 10 better be near the top of the league if not the top.

 

That said, having a big time LG impacts other things. It takes heat off the LT and C for one. And probably most important, it can allow you get by without a top end LT. AC for example was just not that good the last couple years, but still graded out decent. And IMO, Q made his job a lot easier. If we had an average LG, our blind side would have been problematic. It also allows you to draft a LT outside of the 1st round, like one that needs time to fill out a bit (like Radunz).

 

In short, the impacts are more than you think. In paying him, you're paying for more than just a LG.

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I agree a top 10 pick on a guard is not standard, and any guard taken top 10 better be near the top of the league if not the top.

 

That said, having a big time LG impacts other things. It takes heat off the LT and C for one. And probably most important, it can allow you get by without a top end LT. AC for example was just not that good the last couple years, but still graded out decent. And IMO, Q made his job a lot easier. If we had an average LG, our blind side would have been problematic. It also allows you to draft a LT outside of the 1st round, like one that needs time to fill out a bit (like Radunz).

 

In short, the impacts are more than you think. In paying him, you're paying for more than just a LG.

I really like Radunz but seems really slender. He definitely needs to bulk up. 

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4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I really like Radunz but seems really slender. He definitely needs to bulk up. 

That's what happens in a small school with a limited S&C program. IMO, he'll be average year 1, and will blossom in year 2 and 3 when he hits the weights with the support of an NFL trainer and dietician. But IMO, he'd be fine year 1 with Q at his side.

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Just now, EastStreet said:

That's what happens in a small school with a limited S&C program. IMO, he'll be average year 1, and will blossom in year 2 and 3 when he hits the weights with the support of an NFL trainer and dietician. But IMO, he'd be fine year 1 with Q at his side.

If he gets in the right system and regime like Colts he could ultimately be one of the best OT in this class. 

 

You already know I'm a Eichenberg fan 

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6 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

If he gets in the right system and regime like Colts he could ultimately be one of the best OT in this class. 

 

You already know I'm a Eichenberg fan 

There are three or four guys I think will be available in the 2nd that I really like. I think in a few years time, the 2nd rounders might look even better than the 1st round guys (except maybe PS).

 

I like Liam too, but IMO his lack of athleticism keeps his ceiling lower than some of the other guys in his range. I wouldn't be mad if we picked him. 

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Just now, EastStreet said:

There are three or four guys I think will be available in the 2nd that I really like. I think in a few years time, the 2nd rounders might look even better than the 1st round guys (except maybe PS).

 

I like Liam too, but IMO his lack of athleticism keeps his ceiling lower than some of the other guys in his range. I wouldn't be mad if we picked him. 

I also like Cosmi 

He had solid pro day today 

 

He will most likely not be LT ready year 1 though

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4 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I never ever said trade Nelson. I however said  I would for top man corner. It is easy to say draft a corner. We tried with Sin and that is not looking good and he is no where near to becoming a top man corner. He is not even an average zone corner.

Are you aware of how long it took the Colts to draft a decent OL?

 

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24 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I also like Cosmi 

He had solid pro day today 

 

He will most likely not be LT ready year 1 though

Not talking about Cosmi specifically, but I think you could plug in several "almost ready" guys next to Q and they'd be fine the first season. Not great, but good enough.

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Not talking about Cosmi specifically, but I think you could plug in several "almost ready" guys next to Q and they'd be fine the first season. Not great, but good enough.

Q definitely makes the line better all around. Hes got that nasty mean streak that I love!

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2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I agree a top 10 pick on a guard is not standard, and any guard taken top 10 better be near the top of the league if not the top.

 

That said, having a big time LG impacts other things. It takes heat off the LT and C for one. And probably most important, it can allow you get by without a top end LT. AC for example was just not that good the last couple years, but still graded out decent. And IMO, Q made his job a lot easier. If we had an average LG, our blind side would have been problematic. It also allows you to draft a LT outside of the 1st round, like one that needs time to fill out a bit (like Radunz).

 

In short, the impacts are more than you think. In paying him, you're paying for more than just a LG.

I tend to think u over value his ability to protect an average LT

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2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I agree a top 10 pick on a guard is not standard, and any guard taken top 10 better be near the top of the league if not the top.

 

That said, having a big time LG impacts other things. It takes heat off the LT and C for one. And probably most important, it can allow you get by without a top end LT. AC for example was just not that good the last couple years, but still graded out decent. And IMO, Q made his job a lot easier. If we had an average LG, our blind side would have been problematic. It also allows you to draft a LT outside of the 1st round, like one that needs time to fill out a bit (like Radunz).

 

In short, the impacts are more than you think. In paying him, you're paying for more than just a LG.

Your theory will b put to the test in this upcoming draft. Question. So if Ballard drafts a LT in the 1st round next year doesnt that go against your theory of Neslon's worth to this team? If he is such an asset should we not be drafting a LT till say the 3rd round or pick up a journey man in free agency?

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4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

AC was average the last couple years yet Colts have been ranked in or near the top 10. Id say its you that doesn't give Q credit.

Stewart was a no name DT. Buckner comes to town and now people r singing Stewarts praises and he is awarded a big contract. Thats impacting another players performance. We shall c this upcoming season if Neslon has that same affect.

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10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

AC was very average last year. Typically a lot of teams look for the LT to help the LG. It's just the opposite here. 

Well we should c how much Ballard values Neslon with his pick in the draft or his free agency acquisition. If u r correct, he should not have to draft that high or pay that much for a LT

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1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Well we should c how much Ballard values Neslon with his pick in the draft or his free agency acquisition. If u r correct, he should not have to draft that high or pay that much for a LT

I think Colts could find solid OT at 54

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1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Your theory will b put to the test in this upcoming draft. Question. So if Ballard drafts a LT in the 1st round next year doesnt that go against your theory of Neslon's worth to this team? If he is such an asset should we not be drafting a LT till say the 3rd round or pick up a journey man in free agency?

meh. I'm happy to put my theory to the test lol. I'm typically right more than wrong, but being wrong isn't going to make me lose sleep. Depending on FA moves, I could see a lot of things happening.

 

IMO, at this point (pre-FA), 2nd round is where Ballard will go for a LT. 

 

A little confused about your post. You say upcoming year, then say next year. Are you saying we'll do something both this year and next?

 

By the way, we don't have a 3rd round pick. If we picked one up by trading back or some other trade, I think 3rd round is a stretch for LT, even with Q. There are a few guys though that I think might fall to the 3rd that might end up being 75-80 graded LTs if put in the right situation.

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1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Well we should c how much Ballard values Neslon with his pick in the draft or his free agency acquisition. If u r correct, he should not have to draft that high or pay that much for a LT

My opinion is worth less than a cup of coffee. You either value it, or you don't lol. I'd wager though that we don't take one in the 1st. We already spend a ton on the OL (2nd most last year, top 10 this year without a LT replacement). So adding a 1st round LT would mean we'll be near the lead in the league for likely years to come, even with a LT rook contract. 

 

I just think it's a great T class, we have a solid OL already, and have more pressing needs. FA could change a lot of things. We could take a older LT on a short term deal, and that would erase the need altogether. If we do draft a LT though, you know my bet.

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11 hours ago, EastStreet said:

My opinion is worth less than a cup of coffee. You either value it, or you don't lol. I'd wager though that we don't take one in the 1st. We already spend a ton on the OL (2nd most last year, top 10 this year without a LT replacement). So adding a 1st round LT would mean we'll be near the lead in the league for likely years to come, even with a LT rook contract. 

 

I just think it's a great T class, we have a solid OL already, and have more pressing needs. FA could change a lot of things. We could take a older LT on a short term deal, and that would erase the need altogether. If we do draft a LT though, you know my bet.

Oh contraire.  I value your thoughts as u r very astute and know  far more than me when it comes to football. Just a slight difference of opinion. We are allowed that as we both live in a democracy lol.

12 hours ago, EastStreet said:

meh. I'm happy to put my theory to the test lol. I'm typically right more than wrong, but being wrong isn't going to make me lose sleep. Depending on FA moves, I could see a lot of things happening.

 

IMO, at this point (pre-FA), 2nd round is where Ballard will go for a LT. 

 

A little confused about your post. You say upcoming year, then say next year. Are you saying we'll do something both this year and next?

 

By the way, we don't have a 3rd round pick. If we picked one up by trading back or some other trade, I think 3rd round is a stretch for LT, even with Q. There are a few guys though that I think might fall to the 3rd that might end up being 75-80 graded LTs if put in the right situation.

I meant this year.....sorry

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5 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Oh contraire.  I value your thoughts as u r very astute and know  far more than me when it comes to football. Just a slight difference of opinion. We are allowed that as we both live in a democracy lol.

I meant this year.....sorry

Yup, everyone is entitled to opinions. But mine still want buy you a cup a coffee lol. I'd buy you one though.

 

So if you had to bet, what situation would you wager on? 1st round drafted LT?

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5 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Yup, everyone is entitled to opinions. But mine still want buy you a cup a coffee lol. I'd buy you one though.

 

So if you had to bet, what situation would you wager on? 1st round drafted LT?

Hmmmm.....I don't think so. Honestly, I would love them to grab a corner if the value is there. This team needs a big time corner badly. Tired of the idea of zone corners. Cannot contine to play this brand of defence. I actually think Ballard will trade back and pick corner.

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15 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Hmmmm.....I don't think so. Honestly, I would love them to grab a corner if the value is there. This team needs a big time corner badly. Tired of the idea of zone corners. Cannot contine to play this brand of defence. I actually think Ballard will trade back and pick corner.

So how are solving for LT?

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1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Doyle...lol. i am thinking later rounds. Say in the 3rd. We cannot put anymore top end resources in the Oline. Getting way to expensive. Need skill players

Well, my bet is you're going to be disappointed then. The only way I see them going 3rd or later is if they move Nelson or Smith to LT and draft a G/T combo.

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16 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Well, my bet is you're going to be disappointed then. The only way I see them going 3rd or later is if they move Nelson or Smith to LT and draft a G/T combo.

I would like to sign Willie Jackson fron the Bengals. Need a corner. U are probably right. I dont think Ballard respects the corner position. All we hear about is how he values thd D and O line. He needs to start developing them and hitting on his draft picks which he has not. I am talking bout his D line picks bug he has to draft some later picks at the O line position. U cant continue to out all your high picks into the Oline. He gets credit for the O line but to much I think. Smith was a good pick. Kelly was a Grigson pick.  Nelson was a top 6 pick and Castanzo was a Polian pick. 

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