Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

For the Colts, I think this is the week....


Recommended Posts

 

I think this is the week where we make our moves, and turn over some of our cards.

 

If we're going to restructure Kelly,  now would be the time to do it.    Restructure Stewart and Doyle?    Now would be the time to do it.

 

And while we're at it,  this week might be better than prior to the draft to do the Leonard and Smith contracts.    I suppose we could wait for a few weeks,  and do it a bit later,  but I think the sooner the better might give everyone a clearer picture?    And who knows,  maybe Ballard doesn't want to tip his hand, and maybe those big contracts get done in April?    After the first wave of FA, but before the draft?    Hard to figure with Ballard?

 

But most every media outlet thinks this week is going to be like cut-down week with lots of big name surprises happening.   

 

Keep your phones close!    Keep this website even closer!!         :thmup:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Kelly and Stewart just signed their contracts. I don't know how welling they would be to already change the terms of their deal. Imo, the only move I see the colts doing is cutting Doyle especially if we do try to get Ertz.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Kelly and Stewart just signed their contracts. I don't know how welling they would be to already change the terms of their deal. Imo, the only move I see the colts doing is cutting Doyle especially if we do try to get Ertz.

Restructuring doesn’t mean they lose money.

 

It can, but not always.   It can also mean moving some money around to lower the cap hit for the team, while the player still gets his money.  Converting bonuses to salary or salary to bonuses.   That type of thing. 
 

This is not uncommon. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Restructuring doesn’t mean they lose money.

 

It can, but not always.   It can also mean moving some money around to lower the cap hit for the team, while the player still gets his money.  Converting bonuses to salary or salary to bonuses.   That type of thing. 
 

This is not uncommon. 

 

Yes, but if you're expecting to get say 10 mil after you just agreed to a contract and now you're getting 8 mil instead and have to wait til the following year to get it back, that might leave a sour taste. I'm just saying.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Yes, but if you're expecting to get say 10 mil after you just agreed to a contract and now you're getting 8 mil instead and have to wait til the following year to get it back, that might leave a sour taste. I'm just saying.

The type of restructure we would likely see would be converting base salaries to a signing bonus, which gives the player the same amount of money, but spreads the cap hit for it over the rest of the life of the contract. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Yes, but if you're expecting to get say 10 mil after you just agreed to a contract and now you're getting 8 mil instead and have to wait til the following year to get it back, that might leave a sour taste. I'm just saying.

The money either wouldn’t be delayed, or, if it was,  it would be guaranteed.   When done correctly, it’s a win-win scenario.   Players typically do this willingly. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Yes, but if you're expecting to get say 10 mil after you just agreed to a contract and now you're getting 8 mil instead and have to wait til the following year to get it back, that might leave a sour taste. I'm just saying.


To be clear, there are instances when it’s done with a more hardball approach.   Either take a reduced salary (pay cut) or we will cut you and you can take your chances being a free agent. 
 

This is done, but I’m not aware that Ballard has done this.   I’m not saying he hasn’t, only that I’m not aware of it if he has. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:


To be clear, there are instances when it’s done with a mire hardball approach.   Either take a reduced salary (pay cut) or we will cut you and you can take your chances being a free agent. 
 

This is done, but I’m not aware that Ballard has done this.   I’m not saying he hasn’t, only that I’m not aware of it if he has. 

 

That would be pretty extreme to save a few mil off the cap

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

That would be pretty extreme to save a few mil off the cap

We already have a good amount of cap space.  If Ballard is planning on signing a couple of tier 1 free agents then I could see it.  But it does seem kind of extreme at this stage of the game.  Ballard seems like he thinks more long term than most.   Redoing Stewart and even Kelly would be a surprise for me. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Yes, but if you're expecting to get say 10 mil after you just agreed to a contract and now you're getting 8 mil instead and have to wait til the following year to get it back, that might leave a sour taste. I'm just saying.

 

Restructures in this case would just convert salary into bonus, which reduces the player's cap hit in the current season. The player gets the same amount of money that season, he just gets some bonus money sooner. This isn't something players have a problem with.

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

If we're going to restructure Kelly,  now would be the time to do it.    Restructure Stewart and Doyle?    Now would be the time to do it.

 

We can't restructure Doyle as he's in the final year of his contract. We can extend him, and reduce his 2021 cap hit, but I don't see that happening. I think Doyle is more likely to be replaced than get a new deal.

 

For Stewart, the previous CBA had a rule that prevented a player's contract from being restructured more than once within one year. In practice, this meant a player had to wait a year after signing their deal before they could restructure, which means Stewart wouldn't be eligible to restructure until November 2021. I'm assuming that rule has not changed in the new CBA, but I have not researched this yet.

 

So Kelly is really the only one that would be eligible. They could easily cut his 2021 cap hit in half, or more if they really wanted. So he's scheduled at $14.65m, and that could definitely come down to ~$8m, saving the team $6.65m in 2021. But that savings basically gets moved into dead money in future seasons, which is something the Colts apparently want to avoid. Kelly's contract had zero signing bonus, so after 2021 there is zero dead money. Restructuring him would be a dramatic change in cap strategy for the Colts.

 

Doesn't mean it won't happen, but we're in really good cap shape, so I'm not expecting it. If the Colts wanted to manipulate their cap situation to add FA flexibility, they could back load their FA contracts, with the same net result. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

We can't restructure Doyle as he's in the final year of his contract. We can extend him, and reduce his 2021 cap hit, but I don't see that happening. I think Doyle is more likely to be replaced than get a new deal.

 

For Stewart, the previous CBA had a rule that prevented a player's contract from being restructured more than once within one year. In practice, this meant a player had to wait a year after signing their deal before they could restructure, which means Stewart wouldn't be eligible to restructure until November 2021. I'm assuming that rule has not changed in the new CBA, but I have not researched this yet.

 

So Kelly is really the only one that would be eligible. They could easily cut his 2021 cap hit in half, or more if they really wanted. So he's scheduled at $14.65m, and that could definitely come down to ~$8m, saving the team $6.65m in 2021. But that savings basically gets moved into dead money in future seasons, which is something the Colts apparently want to avoid. Kelly's contract had zero signing bonus, so after 2021 there is zero dead money. Restructuring him would be a dramatic change in cap strategy for the Colts.

 

Doesn't mean it won't happen, but we're in really good cap shape, so I'm not expecting it. If the Colts wanted to manipulate their cap situation to add FA flexibility, they could back load their FA contracts, with the same net result. 

If they're looking at the absolute "must re-sign" players coming up ( Leonard, Smith, Q), and also want to make a splash in FA, I can see a restructure for a player they expect to be here for a while, such as Kelly. The cap room could get awfully small in a hurry under the above scenario. A little breathing room is a good thing. :default_20smile:

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Darius Leonard would probably be cheaper on the tag than if they extended him now.

Personally I do not want the Colts to tag Leonard. It would be cheaper to work out a long term deal and not chase him down a rabbit hole that players do not like. He has been a great Colt so he deserves better treatment. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Hoose said:

If they're looking at the absolute "must re-sign" players coming up ( Leonard, Smith, Q), and also want to make a splash in FA, I can see a restructure for a player they expect to be here for a while, such as Kelly. The cap room could get awfully small in a hurry under the above scenario. A little breathing room is a good thing. :default_20smile:

 

 

Breathing room this year sacrifices cap space and flexibility next year, and beyond. Why not just sign Leonard, Smith and Nelson now, and structure the deals in a way that minimizes their cap hits in 2021? The difference is that the three re-signs are 2-3 years younger than Kelly, and more likely to be here long term. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

We can't restructure Doyle as he's in the final year of his contract. We can extend him, and reduce his 2021 cap hit, but I don't see that happening. I think Doyle is more likely to be replaced than get a new deal.

 

For Stewart, the previous CBA had a rule that prevented a player's contract from being restructured more than once within one year. In practice, this meant a player had to wait a year after signing their deal before they could restructure, which means Stewart wouldn't be eligible to restructure until November 2021. I'm assuming that rule has not changed in the new CBA, but I have not researched this yet.

 

So Kelly is really the only one that would be eligible. They could easily cut his 2021 cap hit in half, or more if they really wanted. So he's scheduled at $14.65m, and that could definitely come down to ~$8m, saving the team $6.65m in 2021. But that savings basically gets moved into dead money in future seasons, which is something the Colts apparently want to avoid. Kelly's contract had zero signing bonus, so after 2021 there is zero dead money. Restructuring him would be a dramatic change in cap strategy for the Colts.

 

Doesn't mean it won't happen, but we're in really good cap shape, so I'm not expecting it. If the Colts wanted to manipulate their cap situation to add FA flexibility, they could back load their FA contracts, with the same net result. 


Thanks for taking the time to explain the technical side of this.   There was one giant thing you wrote that jumped out off the page for me.   Ryan Kelly’s contract had ZERO signing bonus?!?   Holy Cow?!?    I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of this?    Especially for a player of his caliber.  
 

I double checked his deal on Spotrac and it also revealed the team can (if it wants) get out of this deal after THIS season?!   Zero dead cap hit.   It seems extra-ordinarily team friendly!   I confess I wasn’t expecting to see those kind of details.

 

So this week may wind up being very quiet for the Colts.   The opposite of what I thought might happen.  Looks like I shanked that punt!  Looks like I missed that field goal WIDE of the mark!       Whoops!     :thmup:

 

Feel the need to close this thread?!     :peek:

Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Darius Leonard would probably be cheaper on the tag than if they extended him now.

He might be....   but great players HATE being tagged.   There’s no Big Money in it.  Just one year.   The relationship becomes adversarial.  It can get toxic, as it has in Dallas with Dak. 
 

If it’s possible, you want to avoid using the tag.   Lots and lots of potential downside. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Thanks for taking the time to explain the technical side of this.   There was one giant thing you wrote that jumped out off the page for me.   Ryan Kelly’s contract had ZERO signing bonus?!?   Holy Cow?!?    I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of this?    Especially for a player of his caliber.  
 

I double checked his deal on Spotrac and it also revealed the team can (if it wants) get out of this deal after THIS season?!   Zero dead cap hit.   It seems extra-ordinarily team friendly!   I confess I wasn’t expecting to see those kind of details.

 

So this week may wind up being very quiet for the Colts.   The opposite of what I thought might happen.  Looks like I shanked that punt!  Looks like I missed that field goal WIDE of the mark!       Whoops!     :thmup:

 

Feel the need to close this thread?!     :peek:

 

No need to close the thread, it's a good discussion.

 

Take a minute and look at the contracts for Buckner, Kenny Moore, and Rigo Sanchez. None of them had signing bonuses. The point is to keep the team's cash outlay very close to the cap hit, and avoid dead money in future seasons. All the trouble that the Saints, Eagles and Steelers are facing right now with difficulty getting out of big contracts is mostly avoided if you don't use big signing bonuses. This appears to be the Colts' preferred approach.

 

Also, took a closer look at Kelly's details, and it looks like his 2022 roster bonus of $4m will be fully guaranteed as of this month, so the cap penalty to release him prior to 2022 would be $4m. It's unlikely that his play would deteriorate so drastically that this would even be a consideration, but that's a factor.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

He might be....   but great players HATE being tagged.   There’s no Big Money in it.  Just one year.   The relationship becomes adversarial.  It can get toxic, as it has in Dallas with Dak. 
 

If it’s possible, you want to avoid using the tag.   Lots and lots of potential downside. 

Looks like the tag number for LBs is 15.6 right now, while the predictions for Darius are in the 17-19 range.  Not a huge difference, I wonder if it might be hard to get him signed though.

 

It could be tricky for both sides, there are not many comparable players or teams that have highly paid 43 wills.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BlackTiger said:

Looks like the tag number for LBs is 15.6 right now, while the predictions for Darius are in the 17-19 range.  Not a huge difference, I wonder if it might be hard to get him signed though.

 

It could be tricky for both sides, there are not many comparable players or teams that have highly paid 43 wills.

I don't know anything about Colts Players lives, but the Irsay family appears to care enough about Darius to create a Fund to help with Depression, based on Darius. I have to think there's a connection that doesn't show on the field. Hopefully, they move forward together.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...