Who do you want at LT?

[John Hammonds]

I still prefer Liam Eichenberg.  I know that Cosmi has more athleticism and Darrisaw has a higher ceiling.  But if I'm in a win-now situation, where I don't just want to be above .500, and I don't just want to make the playoffs, but I want to go deep into the playoffs, and I want to save my cap space for signing a lot of my own free agents and retaining my depth, then I'll go with the guy who may not have as much raw athletic ability, but does have the techniques already in place to start immediately.  Yes, we can probably draft him in the 2nd round.  We don't need to spend #21 on him.  But I prefer him over the other options, in our situation.

[JoeThornburg]

3 hours ago, TheNextGM said:

All depends on how the draft falls.. if one of the edge guys falls - Paye, Rousseau - then Colts go Edge and sign a LT.. if Darrisaw or Slater (doubtful) fall, then they grab one.

 

I’d be surprised if 2 of the 4 are available at 21

Problem with waiting until the draft is going to be missing your shot in free agency. I think it's a fool's errand to put all faith in drafting rookie talent. At least kick the tires on some of these free agent tackles and edge guys and go for the best value. Then you limit your needs in terms of the draft and put yourself in a position to make more targeted moves. The cap space is there. There's no excuse as the Colts have a huge edge on most teams in the NFL this year, and it's going to be a buyer's market in a lot of positions, but I don't think QB and LT will be among them as there is a shortage of talent.

 

Yes it's also a deep draft class, and nothing says you don't go for your guy in the draft if you can, but utilize your options. Don't over do it but if I'm Ballard I look to flex that muscle a bit. He was pretty shrewd in the Wentz trade all things considered.

One fascinating scenario I could see happening is in Jacksonville. Cam Robinson hasn't lived up to his potential there and some pundits seem to think they will tag him. Personally, I think tagging anyone this year is risky business, but Jacksonville is notorious for poor personnel decisions and utilization. However, I could see them pulling the trigger on a guy like Trent Williams if they aren't sold on Robinson because they'd essentially be paying Robinson over what his market value could turn out to be if they tag him. That could potentially be a value signing with potential for high upside if he's playing along side Q.

[Four2itus]

5 hours ago, joecolts said:

If we find the right rookie, yes.  Rookies play every year.  Get the right one, coach them up and put them out there.  

 

4 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

Without a doubt

 

4 hours ago, joecolts said:

You know who protected the winning Super Bowl QB of the Tampa Bay Bucs this year?    

 

4 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

Kelly already got paid

Smith and Q are going to get paid

 

We need a LT on a rookie contract 

 

4 hours ago, RollerColt said:

If we can get one of the top OTs, then yes. However, I'd be fine if we got a proven talent in the FA and then used our draft to get an edge. 

Well, I would not spend draft coinage for a FA QB, one that needs a bit of confidence rebuilding, and then strap a rookie on his blindside. My guess is Ballard won't either. 

[danlhart87]

Just now, Four2itus said:

 

 

 

 

Well, I would not spend draft coinage for a FA QB, one that needs a bit of confidence rebuilding, and then strap a rookie on his blindside. My guess is Ballard won't either. 

I doubt Ballard wants to pay big numbers to 4 members of the OL

[JoeThornburg]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

I doubt Ballard wants to pay big numbers to 4 members of the OL

Good point but why not? That's one area where the Patriots always spent money and we all know how things worked out for them.

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, JoeThornburg said:

Good point but why not? That's one area where the Patriots always spent money and we all know how things worked out for them.

It would have to be a relatively cheap veteran. Kelly already got paid and Smith will get 14 too then Nelson about 18.

 

 

[holeymoley99]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

Moving Pinter there adds more depth problems. Its an easy fix sure but backup LT and LG beyond Q and Pinter becomes a ?

You can later draft and sign less expensive free agents to fill in those spots. No one is saying abandon all draft capital and cap space, saying manage so can also fill needs at Edge, Corner, WR and TE. We need to fill starting holes first.

 

I think Eldrenkamp can further develop as deep interior depth and Sam Jones may as well. Hoping Carter O'Donnell can be a backup RT at some point. Jake Benzinger despite starting in the ACC at both LT and RT probably needs more muscle added to his frame before he can seriously make a run at a roster spot.

[Thebrashandthebold]

2 hours ago, Zoltan said:

That's the problem, Zach Martin didn't get eaten alive, the tackles did. You also should care what we pay him because it affects the rest of the roster. I think they should experiment with him at LT, he may transfer well into the position. At the very least they should discuss it with him.

It is astounding that you want to take a man who is the best in the NFL at his position and set him up to being injured as a tackle just to save a few million dollars. 

[Zoltan]

Just now, Thebrashandthebold said:

It is astounding that you want to take a man who is the best in the NFL at his position and set him up to being injured as a tackle just to save a few million dollars. 

Why are you assuming he’ll immediately get injured?

[Thebrashandthebold]

48 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I doubt Ballard wants to pay big numbers to 4 members of the OL

His job is to get the best people at every position. He should be delighted to pay them their market value and watch them take care of the Oline for the next decade. However, I do agree that he will draft a LT and just pay for a rookie contract.

1 minute ago, Zoltan said:

Why are you assuming he’ll immediately get injured?

I didn't assume anything. I just think you exposing him to hits at different angle than he is used to warding off and it could happen. It is not worth even a remove chance.

[Zoltan]

39 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I didn't assume anything. I just think you exposing him to hits at different angle than he is used to warding off and it could happen. It is not worth even a remove chance.

 

Sounds like assumptions to me. It's football if your afraid of injuries play a non contact sport like golf

[DattMavis]

If Darrisaw falls, I will cry tears of joy.

If he doesn’t, Cosmi or Eichenberg.

After them, Jenkins or Radunz.

[Shive]

7 hours ago, Jeremy Waldon said:

I think Ballard will bring a vet LT, and draft the furture as well. My fav is Walker Little, he talked to his coach and his coach told him he has enough tape out there. And with all the unknowns of this past season(covid) he would be better off sending that extra time preparing for the NFL. Which is where he has been since training and preparing for the combine(pro days). I beleive his time spent on technique and getting his body in pro shape wont go unnoticed by alot of teams

Agreed. I honestly think he'll be going way higher than most people are currently projecting. I wouldn't bat an eye if we took him in the second, maybe even later in the 1st if we happen to trade back.

[Thebrashandthebold]

11 hours ago, Zoltan said:

 

Sounds like assumptions to me. It's football if your afraid of injuries play a non contact sport like golf

I am glad that you are not in charge of anything. I want to keep the best guard in the NFL for a long time. You must have certainly admired how Luck played the game. What is he doing now? Shouldn't he have played another ten years. Perhaps if he had not played QB like a linebacker his career would have lasted much longer.

[Zoltan]

49 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I am glad that you are not in charge of anything. I want to keep the best guard in the NFL for a long time. You must have certainly admired how Luck played the game. What is he doing now? Shouldn't he have played another ten years. Perhaps if he had not played QB like a linebacker his career would have lasted much longer.

I'm just flabbergasted, that you think a change means immediate injury. I'd rather have a top 10 LT vs the best guard and when it comes to the cap, it's easier to pay 18 mil to a LT vs G. Which you always have to have the cap in mind when building a team, I'm with the mindset don't pay premium pay for a non premium position and while it is nice to have the best guard, there's already an example in the NFL (cowboys) where the best guard gets paid big and the OL deteriorates because they aren't at the most important position

[throwing BBZ]

52 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I am glad that you are not in charge of anything. I want to keep the best guard in the NFL for a long time. You must have certainly admired how Luck played the game. What is he doing now? Shouldn't he have played another ten years. Perhaps if he had not played QB like a linebacker his career would have lasted much longer.

 

 When forced to play the quick passing game for a season, like Manning thrived in, he next retired.
 He held on to the ball when he had open receivers right in front of him, as you say, way to often taking Big Hits. And he told them nice hit!
 Well they were. And he went home with a beat up body and brain, and many tens of Millions of Jim's $$$ for his troubles. I enjoyed his spirit, just not his love for the long ball, hated his short game.

[throwing BBZ]

16 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

I'm just flabbergasted, that you think a change means immediate injury. I'd rather have a top 10 LT vs the best guard and when it comes to the cap, it's easier to pay 18 mil to a LT vs G. Which you always have to have the cap in mind when building a team, I'm with the mindset don't pay premium pay for a non premium position and while it is nice to have the best guard, there's already an example in the NFL (cowboys) where the best guard gets paid big and the OL deteriorates because they aren't at the most important position

 

 It really is that simple.
I could see Nelson playing a few pounds lighter and being a top 2 LT.
He just has the mental and the physical for it.
The other side is that if you can run up the gut on a D it opens up the whole offense. And Q is a pure Hall of Famer at that. Such a good conundrum to have.

[indyagent17]

This draft is deep with offensive tackles. I can easily see Ballard trading down and getting a  second or third round pick in return plus a starting LT 

[Zoltan]

4 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 It really is that simple.
I could see Nelson playing a few pounds lighter and being a top 2 LT.
He just has the mental and the physical for it.
The other side is that if you can run up the gut on a D it opens up the whole offense. And Q is a pure Hall of Famer at that. Such a good conundrum to have.

It really is a good conundrum to have

[JoeThornburg]

19 hours ago, Zoltan said:

 

Sounds like assumptions to me. It's football if your afraid of injuries play a non contact sport like golf

Take the injury concern out of it, even though I still think that's a fair point to make. Q is the best guard in the NFL right now. Why take him out of his wheelhouse? He's great at what he does now. That's not an easy transition to make. 

[Zoltan]

1 hour ago, JoeThornburg said:

Take the injury concern out of it, even though I still think that's a fair point to make. Q is the best guard in the NFL right now. Why take him out of his wheelhouse? He's great at what he does now. That's not an easy transition to make. 

For the reasons I have previously stated:

On 3/5/2021 at 4:08 PM, Zoltan said:

 if he thrives you have a great LT, but mostly it's due to his next contract. I don't want to pay LT money to a guard, as you can argue the guard position is the 3rd or 4th most important offensive line position behind LT, Center, and maybe RT.

 

look at Zack Martin he used to be the best guard in the league but when the tackles got hurt the OL became terrible, because DEs ate Dak alive.

23 hours ago, Zoltan said:

I guess how I see it if Nelson moves to LT and is a top 10 LT instead of the best guard. I'm good with that trade off, Then draft a guard. But like I said below this is a wish not what I expect.

 

8 hours ago, Zoltan said:

it's easier to pay 18 mil to a LT vs G. Which you always have to have the cap in mind when building a team, I'm with the mindset don't pay premium pay for a non premium position and while it is nice to have the best guard, there's already an example in the NFL (cowboys) where the best guard gets paid big and the OL deteriorates because they aren't at the most important position

 

[JoeThornburg]

14 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

For the reasons I have previously stated:

 

 

And you're ignoring that it's not such a simple fix as just lining him up on the outside. Aside from the assignments being completely different, the hand work and foot work side of the mechanics are also not even close to the same. He's also never played the position past high school. Terrible idea.

 

If you're going to go that route, you're better off drafting a rookie LT, or grabbing a guy like Robinson if money is the issue. I don't see the point in taking a generational talent and asking them to be something they aren't unless you're just desperate, which isn't how I would categorize this Colts team right now.

[Zoltan]

16 minutes ago, JoeThornburg said:

And you're ignoring that it's not such a simple fix as just lining him up on the outside. Aside from the assignments being completely different, the hand work and foot work side of the mechanics are also not even close to the same. He's also never played the position past high school. Terrible idea.

 

If you're going to go that route, you're better off drafting a rookie LT, or grabbing a guy like Robinson if money is the issue. I don't see the point in taking a generational talent and asking them to be something they aren't unless you're just desperate, which isn't how I would categorize this Colts team right now.

I'm not ignoring that I actually addressed that in a previous post as well

[John Waylon]

I’d be willing to give Tarik Glenn a shot...

[NewColtsFan]

On 3/5/2021 at 12:03 PM, joecolts said:

If we find the right rookie, yes.  Rookies play every year.  Get the right one, coach them up and put them out there.  

Yes...   Rookies okay all the time.   But very, very few play Left Tackle.   That position is one of the few exceptions to the rule. 

[NewColtsFan]

13 hours ago, Zoltan said:

I'm just flabbergasted, that you think a change means immediate injury. I'd rather have a top 10 LT vs the best guard and when it comes to the cap, it's easier to pay 18 mil to a LT vs G. Which you always have to have the cap in mind when building a team, I'm with the mindset don't pay premium pay for a non premium position and while it is nice to have the best guard, there's already an example in the NFL (cowboys) where the best guard gets paid big and the OL deteriorates because they aren't at the most important position

Well...   we’re going to pay Nelson and make him the highest paid guard in football.   If that doesn’t work for you take it up with Chris Ballard.   He runs the team. 

[Zoltan]

43 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well...   we’re going to pay Nelson and make him the highest paid guard in football.   If that doesn’t work for you take it up with Chris Ballard.   He runs the team. 

If you read the previous posts, you would see that I don't have a problem with paying Nelson and I expect us to keep him at Guard and draft a LT. So take a deep breath.

 

This part isn't directed towards you particularly but jeez louise I keep on having to restate stuff 

[NewColtsFan]

17 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

If you read the previous posts, you would see that I don't have a problem with paying Nelson and I expect us to keep him at Guard and draft a LT. So take a deep breath.

 

This part isn't directed towards you particularly but jeez louise I keep on having to restate stuff 

Did I misread your post?   Did you not say you were in favor of moving Nelson to LT?   That if we’re going to pay him top dollar, it would be better to do it with him as our LT instead of at LG?    That wasn’t you?    I’m sorry, I thought that’s what I responded to.... 

[Lancer1]

I'd prefer Villanueva, he'd be a good "plug & play" option, but he's probably out of our price range.

[lincolndefan]

13 hours ago, JoeThornburg said:

And you're ignoring that it's not such a simple fix as just lining him up on the outside. Aside from the assignments being completely different, the hand work and foot work side of the mechanics are also not even close to the same. He's also never played the position past high school. Terrible idea.

 

If you're going to go that route, you're better off drafting a rookie LT, or grabbing a guy like Robinson if money is the issue. I don't see the point in taking a generational talent and asking them to be something they aren't unless you're just desperate, which isn't how I would categorize this Colts team right now.

 

Well, I personally do not know what's best for all parties involved, but would you believe Costanzo(sp). He was asked his opinion of Nelson playing LT at a high level. He stated with out a doubt he could and would work at it to be the best. I believe he also said he could be a better LT then himself. Take this for what you think it says but he did say it in a interview either right before retirement or his last interview. Can't remember which. I will say if Nelson can play LT well then that goes a long way for the Colts. Just something to ponder about. 

[holeymoley99]

Its amazing how many here think LT would be brand new to Q. You do realize he played LT all his life right ?  He was HS All American at...yep LT....was always his preferred spot. Notre Dame asked him to shift because LT they had werent versatile enough to shift and Q being the consummate team player agreed and then excelled at LG as well.....He is a stud where ever he plays. LT is regarded as the most important spot on the line...put your best player in the most important spot.  IF and a huge IF he fails you can always move him back and look for alternate options but hard to see him failing based on his past record of achievement.

[hoosierhawk]

On 3/5/2021 at 6:48 PM, danlhart87 said:

Who do you put at LG then

Sign Joe Thuney in free agency and then you have the best OL in Football for the next 5+ yrs.

[Zoltan]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Did I misread your post?   Did you not say you were in favor of moving Nelson to LT?   That if we’re going to pay him top dollar, it would be better to do it with him as our LT instead of at LG?    That wasn’t you?    I’m sorry, I thought that’s what I responded to.... 

I would say read my first post again, and try not to get offended so easily it clearly states that I don't expect this to happen, and we will draft a LT in my very first post.

[EastStreet]

 

IF, stressing "IF", Nelson could grade out in the 80s at LT, I'd pick Nelson. AC graded out in the 70s and 80s.

IF Smith could grade out consistently in the mid to upper 70s, he'd be more than good, especially with Nelson at his side.

 

I really don't want to pay a high priced FA at LT given what we already pay Kelly, and what we will soon be paying Nelson and Smith.

 

So probably if the above IFs aren't in the cards, there are several guys that should be fine later 1st or 2nd round. Below is the PFF grade order going into early 3rd.

 

Darrisaw - doubt he'll fall to 20s, but if he did, it's you can't lose picking him.

Jenkins - probably needs to stay on the right, but might work.

Vera Tucker - some have him projected inside, some outside. I think he'd be fine next to Q

Radunz - Might take a year to fill out that frame, but he would likely be a great long term guy.

Cosmi - has played both L and R Tackle. but is a bit lean and might be best at RT, or at least need to start there

Little - hasn't played since his 2019 knee injury, so a bit of a wildcard.

Leatherwood - has played both G and T, but probably needs to be a G at this level.

Carman - streaky at LT, but performed very well vs OSU IIRC.

Eichenberg - I'm a ND homer, so would love to have Liam. Just not sure if he's capable of consistent high level play given his athleticism. I think he'd be OK with Nelson on his hip.

Mayfield - at worst he'd be a high end G, and OK T. He's a guy that I think will only get better.

Hudson - raw, but good prospect.

D’Ante Smith - interesting prospect, but would take time. And that is assuming he's healed up 100%

 

Current FAs... Not really interested in the big dollar names like I said, but here's my thoughts.

Williams - nope, likely will get 20M/year

Morton - nope, likely will get 17Mish.

Okung - with Carolina likely giving Morton a deal, they'll likely have to part with Okung. 33 but still good. Probably 15M or more though.

Villanueva - will likely get 15M a year. Also 32...

Feiler - interesting name to consider. Has played well at RT and LG. He'd be a cheap option (under 10M) to try at LT and probably would be OK next to Q. 28 years old.

Remmers - 32 and a cheap option

Cam Robinson - average, but young, and will be cheap. Might be a good option to pair with a rook, or even as depth. Only 25, and will likely cost less than 3M/year.

 

That's about as low as I'd go in FAs.

 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I voted some rookie we draft which looks like the popular vote in here. I have no idea who but I would take BPA at that position at #21. With Nelson at LG and Kelly at Center, a rookie should be fine at LT as long as he is at least above average and isn't a bust.

[Colts1324]

Anthony Castonzo 

[groundnpound]

On 3/7/2021 at 2:24 AM, NewColtsFan said:

Did I misread your post?   Did you not say you were in favor of moving Nelson to LT?   That if we’re going to pay him top dollar, it would be better to do it with him as our LT instead of at LG?    That wasn’t you?    I’m sorry, I thought that’s what I responded to.... 

There's really nothing wrong with that statement, especially if Q could dominate at LT in the same fashion he does at LG.

 

 

1. Darrisaw...prob gone

2. trade back...eichenberg/Cosmi

3. trade back again Little/Christensen

 

Feel like Rousseau is the pick if he's still hanging around. Draft seems extremely deep at L/R tackle, although some guys translate better to guard. I totally trust Ballard, that's not a feeling I get with the GM's of any of my other favorite teams.

[danlhart87]

19 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

IF, stressing "IF", Nelson could grade out in the 80s at LT, I'd pick Nelson. AC graded out in the 70s and 80s.

IF Smith could grade out consistently in the mid to upper 70s, he'd be more than good, especially with Nelson at his side.

 

I really don't want to pay a high priced FA at LT given what we already pay Kelly, and what we will soon be paying Nelson and Smith.

 

So probably if the above IFs aren't in the cards, there are several guys that should be fine later 1st or 2nd round. Below is the PFF grade order going into early 3rd.

 

Darrisaw - doubt he'll fall to 20s, but if he did, it's you can't lose picking him.

Jenkins - probably needs to stay on the right, but might work.

Vera Tucker - some have him projected inside, some outside. I think he'd be fine next to Q

Radunz - Might take a year to fill out that frame, but he would likely be a great long term guy.

Cosmi - has played both L and R Tackle. but is a bit lean and might be best at RT, or at least need to start there

Little - hasn't played since his 2019 knee injury, so a bit of a wildcard.

Leatherwood - has played both G and T, but probably needs to be a G at this level.

Carman - streaky at LT, but performed very well vs OSU IIRC.

Eichenberg - I'm a ND homer, so would love to have Liam. Just not sure if he's capable of consistent high level play given his athleticism. I think he'd be OK with Nelson on his hip.

Mayfield - at worst he'd be a high end G, and OK T. He's a guy that I think will only get better.

Hudson - raw, but good prospect.

D’Ante Smith - interesting prospect, but would take time. And that is assuming he's healed up 100%

 

Current FAs... Not really interested in the big dollar names like I said, but here's my thoughts.

Williams - nope, likely will get 20M/year

Morton - nope, likely will get 17Mish.

Okung - with Carolina likely giving Morton a deal, they'll likely have to part with Okung. 33 but still good. Probably 15M or more though.

Villanueva - will likely get 15M a year. Also 32...

Feiler - interesting name to consider. Has played well at RT and LG. He'd be a cheap option (under 10M) to try at LT and probably would be OK next to Q. 28 years old.

Remmers - 32 and a cheap option

Cam Robinson - average, but young, and will be cheap. Might be a good option to pair with a rook, or even as depth. Only 25, and will likely cost less than 3M/year.

 

That's about as low as I'd go in FAs.

 

 

 

I saw a mock draft on reddit recently with Colts signing Richard Sherman and Russell Okung then drafting Bateman at 21

 

[TonyBungee]

One name I haven't seen on here (sorry if I missed it): Orlando Brown Jr.   

 

I know he's not a FA (1 yr. left on rookie deal), but he wants to play LT, and has been rumored on his way out of Baltimore.   Selected to the Pro Bowl after filling in at LT.  I don't know anything else about him, & don't remember watching him play, so I'm honestly curious- thoughts on this guy?

[Coltpwr]

In spite of cap implications, I want to see Trent Williams on this line.   Dont want to develop a rook.     

 

I want to see total domination by the O-line.    

 

then draft edge