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Joe Montana finally conceded: Brady is the GOAT


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Still love Montana. 

Manning is definitely (IMO) ahead of Montana.    As you guys hopefully know by now, I'm 100% in the Brady Camp but have a ton of respect for Peyton.   

What's he going to say at this point? My top 3 would probably be Brady, Montana, and Peyton. Brady has 7 Rings, 3 League MVP's, and 5 SB MVP's so hard to debate he isn't #1. I could debate Peyton being #2 though. Yes Montana has more Rings but 4-2 isn't a huge difference and Peyton took 4 different coaches to a SB. Also Peyton's 5 League MVP's to Montana's 2 is a huge difference IMO. Bradshaw won 4 Rings like Montana but only 1 League MVP and his stats were average throughout his career.

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44 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What's he going to say at this point? My top 3 would probably be Brady, Montana, and Peyton. Brady has 7 Rings, 3 League MVP's, and 5 SB MVP's so hard to debate he isn't #1. I could debate Peyton being #2 though. Yes Montana has more Rings but 4-2 isn't a huge difference and Peyton took 4 different coaches to a SB. Also Peyton's 5 League MVP's to Montana's 2 is a huge difference IMO. Bradshaw won 4 Rings like Montana but only 1 League MVP and his stats were average throughout his career.

To follow this up, here is an interesting fact. Peyton was 10-2 as a starter including the playoffs/SB in 2015, since he has been retired the Broncos from 2016-2020 are 32-48 and have missed the playoffs every year. Also from 2003-2010 Peyton with the Colts was 108-36 including the playoffs and he won a SB in 2006. The season he missed in 2011, the Colts went 2-14. That shows anyone how much of an impact that Peyton had on the teams he played for. Simply put, they sucked without him. The Colts were able to rebound in 2012 because Luck was there and Luck while not a great career was very good and was very good from day 1.  

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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

To follow this up, here is an interesting fact. Peyton was 10-2 as a starter including the playoffs/SB in 2015, since he has been retired the Broncos from 2016-2020 are 32-48 and have missed the playoffs every year. Also from 2003-2010 Peyton with the Colts was 108-36 including the playoffs and he won a SB in 2006. The season he missed in 2011, the Colts went 2-14. That shows anyone how much of an impact that Peyton had on the teams he played for. Simply put, they sucked without him. The Colts were able to rebound in 2012 because Luck was there and Luck while not a great career was very good and was very good from day 1.  

 

Manning is definitely (IMO) ahead of Montana. 

 

As you guys hopefully know by now, I'm 100% in the Brady Camp but have a ton of respect for Peyton. 

 

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20 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

Manning is definitely (IMO) ahead of Montana. 

 

As you guys hopefully know by now, I'm 100% in the Brady Camp but have a ton of respect for Peyton. 

 

 

Montana did play in an era where they could rough up the QB more, Belichick played a big part of it as Giants DC vs the 49ers. Brady didn't have to go against Belichick in the Patriots' prime defensive years like Peyton did, that he has to be thankful for based on what the likes of Jim Kelly, Joe Montana, Peyton endured against Belichick's Ds over history. :) 

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1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

Montana did play in an era where they could rough up the QB more, Belichick played a big part of it as Giants DC vs the 49ers. Brady didn't have to go against Belichick in the Patriots' prime defensive years like Peyton did, that he has to be thankful for based on what the likes of Jim Kelly, Joe Montana, Peyton endured against Belichick's Ds over history. :) 

Yeah to me Montana like Peyton at worse is top 3. The era Montana played in was brutal and he got 4 Rings out of it with pretty good stats for back then.

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Montana has always been reluctant to say Brady was the GOAT for obvious reasons. Rice to me seems like the one that is still bitter but then again he is bitter about a lot of things.

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10 minutes ago, FortheWin said:

Montana has always been reluctant to say Brady was the GOAT for obvious reasons. Rice to me seems like the one that is still bitter but then again he is bitter about a lot of things.

Rice is the greatest WR of all-time IMO but to me the greatest overall player has to be a QB. The QB is the most important position on the field and I would take Brady, Montana, or Peyton over Rice as far as greatness goes. Those 3 QB's are just irreplaceable IMO. 

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Rice is the greatest WR of all-time IMO but to me the greatest overall player has to be a QB. The QB is the most important position on the field and I would take Brady, Montana, or Peyton over Rice as far as greatness goes. Those 3 QB's are just irreplaceable IMO. 

I agree. WR one could argue is the least impactful position. So many teams have won the SB without an elite WR. They are really only as good as their QB. Rice kind of proves that.

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19 minutes ago, FortheWin said:

I agree. WR one could argue is the least impactful position. So many teams have won the SB without an elite WR. They are really only as good as their QB. Rice kind of proves that.

 

That is why I think the Bucs let go of Godwin and focus on retaining as many defensive pieces as they can, IMO, especially if AB and Gronk come back. Evans, AB, and Tyler Johnson, Scotty Miller that are good route runners in the wings plus Gronk and Brate for TE production, the Bucs will still have plenty of ammunition, IMO.

 

More important than WR play is OL play, come playoff time and the QB can do the rest, IMO.

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Are you freakin kidding me!! they surrounded Brady with the halrem globe trotters and pretty much red carpeted his way to a Superbowl win.Now Is Brady good yea he's ok but is he better than Montanta or peyton..heck nooo At least when Manning won with the Broncos he had no surrounding stars on the team and when i say surrounding stars i mean stars from different teams that all joined his

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1 minute ago, Shadow_Creek said:

Are you freakin kidding me!! they surrounded Brady with the halrem globe trotters and pretty much red carpeted his way to a Superbowl win.Now Is Brady good yea he's ok but is he better than Montanta or peyton..heck nooo At least when Manning won with the Broncos he had no surrounding stars on the team and when i say surrounding stars i mean stars from different teams that all joined his

I hate to defend Brady because I love Peyton but put Winston in at QB and they go 9-7 at best and there is no way they win the SB. Brady is a lot like Peyton, they both make everyone around them better. The problem Peyton had here in Indy was, against the other elite teams as in the Pats and Steelers, our defense failed us at the worst times. In the 2006 AFC Title Game it took a perfect 2nd half by Peyton to even pull that off vs the Pats. We gave up 34 points and a bunch of big plays in that game.

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21 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

 

 

That is why I think the Bucs let go of Godwin and focus on retaining as many defensive pieces as they can, IMO, especially if AB and Gronk come back. Evans, AB, and Tyler Johnson, Scotty Miller that are good route runners in the wings plus Gronk and Brate for TE production, the Bucs will still have plenty of ammunition, IMO.

 

More important than WR play is OL play, come playoff time and the QB can do the rest, IMO.

I agree. The Oline and Dline win championships. It seems the Bucs are going to tag Godwin so I think he stays but I agree with what you are saying. They have enough without him and should focus on Barrett and David on defense. 

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I hate to defend Brady because I love Peyton but put Winston in at QB and they go 9-7 at best and there is no way they win the SB. Brady is a lot like Peyton, they both make everyone around them better. The problem Peyton had here in Indy was, against the other elite teams as in the Pats and Steelers, our defense failed us at the worst times. In the 2006 AFC Title Game it took a perfect 2nd half by Peyton to even pull that off vs the Pats. We gave up 34 points and a bunch of big plays in that game.

Naw i think any QB could take last years Bucs to the Superbowl and win it... Now if Brady were given 2019's Bucs team and brought them all the way id give him major props for that because they only had the talent they were given not all stars in every category on deck

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Just now, Shadow_Creek said:

Naw i think any QB could take last years Bucs to the Superbowl and win it... Now if Brady were given 2019's Bucs team and brought them all the way id give him major props for that because they only had the talent they were given not all stars in every category on deck

You every QB except Winston right? :P

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6 minutes ago, FortheWin said:

I agree. The Oline and Dline win championships. It seems the Bucs are going to tag Godwin so I think he stays but I agree with what you are saying. They have enough without him and should focus on Barrett and David on defense. 

The Bucs got hot at the right time as a team that is for sure but Brady made some huge plays against the Pack like the long TD to Miller to end the half and he played mistake free vs the Chiefs. 

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I still say it’s Peyton but it could

 either. It’s pointless to really argue it one way or another. It’s like trying to decide who wins in a fight , Batman or Superman, coke or Pepsi, Xbox vs PlAyStation vs Nintendo. You could make a valid argument for either. 

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15 minutes ago, Shadow_Creek said:

Naw i think any QB could take last years Bucs to the Superbowl and win it... Now if Brady were given 2019's Bucs team and brought them all the way id give him major props for that because they only had the talent they were given not all stars in every category on deck

All those stars came because of Brady.

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Just now, FortheWin said:

All those stars came because of Brady.

that's not the point. Manning didn't need all that star talent to win a Super bowl with the Broncos which is clearly why hes better than Brady nuff said

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1 minute ago, Shadow_Creek said:

that's not the point. Manning didn't need all that star talent to win a Super bowl with the Broncos which is clearly why hes better than Brady nuff said

IMO, in reality you can't go wrong with Brady, Montana, or Peyton. I would even throw Elway in that discussion regarding the SB era players.

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3 minutes ago, Shadow_Creek said:

that's not the point. Manning didn't need all that star talent to win a Super bowl with the Broncos which is clearly why hes better than Brady nuff said

Manning had a stacked defense that won the SB for him. He was in sharp decline in 2015.  It's always a team effort regardless.

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3 minutes ago, FortheWin said:

Manning had a stacked defense that won the SB for him. He was in sharp decline in 2015.

yea a stacked defense full of inside stars not outside like the harlem Buc's D

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9 minutes ago, Shadow_Creek said:

yea a stacked defense full of inside stars not outside like the harlem Buc's D

Seeks like you are just trolling.  The Broncos defense had studs everywhere and a much better and more seasoned secondary than the Bucs.  Barrett was a back up on that team, that is how good the front line was.

 

Broncos' defense is among best ever

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14723383/denver-broncos-defense-2015-best-ever-nfl

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6 hours ago, Shadow_Creek said:

Are you freakin kidding me!! they surrounded Brady with the halrem globe trotters and pretty much red carpeted his way to a Superbowl win.Now Is Brady good yea he's ok but is he better than Montanta or peyton..heck nooo At least when Manning won with the Broncos he had no surrounding stars on the team and when i say surrounding stars i mean stars from different teams that all joined his

Wait, WHAT?

Peyton wasn’t surrounded by stars?

He had a phenomenal defense and had MANY offensive weapons.

 

Are we reimagining the past here?

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5 hours ago, Trace Pyott said:

I still say it’s Peyton but it could

 either. It’s pointless to really argue it one way or another. It’s like trying to decide who wins in a fight , Batman or Superman, coke or Pepsi, Xbox vs PlAyStation vs Nintendo. You could make a valid argument for either. 

Except literally only Colt fans may think that it’s Peyton.

it’s not really an opinion; Brady by every measure blows Peyton out of the water.

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If we go by winningest QB in pro Football history no one even comes close nor ever will to Otto Graham...10 year career won title as a rookie made championship game every single season with 7 titles and 3 runnerups.....Football only sport that shutters some of its history. Super Bowl 1 was not first world title games, always found it kinda crazy.  Lets cut out all the Yankees history prior to 1967 and changes dynamics, lets forget about NBA before 1967, NHL as well.......

 

Not saying titles are end all BUT for those spouting that for Brady well Graham was much bigger winner...not close.

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1 hour ago, holeymoley99 said:

If we go by winningest QB in pro Football history no one even comes close nor ever will to Otto Graham...10 year career won title as a rookie made championship game every single season with 7 titles and 3 runnerups.....Football only sport that shutters some of its history. Super Bowl 1 was not first world title games, always found it kinda crazy.  Lets cut out all the Yankees history prior to 1967 and changes dynamics, lets forget about NBA before 1967, NHL as well.......

 

Not saying titles are end all BUT for those spouting that for Brady well Graham was much bigger winner...not close.

Do you truly believe that or is this just your way of discrediting Brady? 

It is pretty well accepted by most that comparing players from different eras is all personal opinion.

There are so many points of views that yours will positively be in a minority. 

 

I don't care for Brady as a person but as far as a QB, he has the hardware. It's only a fans personal feelings are about what makes them the GOAT to themselves. 

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3 hours ago, holeymoley99 said:

If we go by winningest QB in pro Football history no one even comes close nor ever will to Otto Graham...10 year career won title as a rookie made championship game every single season with 7 titles and 3 runnerups.....Football only sport that shutters some of its history. Super Bowl 1 was not first world title games, always found it kinda crazy.  Lets cut out all the Yankees history prior to 1967 and changes dynamics, lets forget about NBA before 1967, NHL as well.......

 

Not saying titles are end all BUT for those spouting that for Brady well Graham was much bigger winner...not close.

This is why when I do rankings I emphasize SB era only (1966-2020 seasons). Before the SB era the game was just much different and it's to hard to compare players that didn't play in the SB era to the one's that did. 1966-2020 is still a huge sample size, that is 55 seasons. A QB like Johnny Unitas played in the SB era and won League MVP in 1967, won man of the year in 1970, and also started a SB in 1970 in which the Colts won. So we know he could've been great in any era. We have no clue how great Otto Graham or Sammy Baugh would've been during the SB era?  Right off hand the only player I can even think of that would've been great/dominant in the SB era but he retired in 1965 before the SB era is Jim Brown. My top 5 SB era QB's still remain:

1. Tom Brady

2. Joe Montana

3. Peyton Manning

4. Johnny Unitas

5. John Elway

-I will stick to this as of 2021 as a non-biased list. Manning is at worse 3rd.

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7 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

1. Tom Brady

2. Joe Montana

3. Peyton Manning

4. Johnny Unitas

5. John Elway

-I will stick to this as of 2021 as a non-biased list. Manning is at worse 3rd.

Exactly the order I've had them for a few years now.  Even before the TB Super Bowl victory.  That's not bad company right there and 2 of the 5 wore the Horseshoe and another was drafted by the Colts but refused to wear it...so, HE'S DEAD TO ME ... lol!

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11 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I don't care for Brady as a person but as far as a QB, he has the hardware. It's only a fans personal feelings are about what makes them the GOAT to themselves. 

 

Neither do I care for his annoying fans that want to carry his jock strap around on all opposing fans' forums trying to get everyone to agree to their line of thinking in every way that they worship him. :) 

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12 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Do you truly believe that or is this just your way of discrediting Brady? 

It is pretty well accepted by most that comparing players from different eras is all personal opinion.

There are so many points of views that yours will positively be in a minority. 

 

I don't care for Brady as a person but as far as a QB, he has the hardware. It's only a fans personal feelings are about what makes them the GOAT to themselves. 

Do I truly believe real stats ? Well as a lifetime Statistician answer is obvious and a clear Yes. If we compare actual numbers and success as the determining factor  it isnt even close between Graham and anyone else.

 

Comparing eras is always tough and in all sports we tend to minimize achievements the further we get away from them even in sports that count every single championship like those other than Football does.  Wilt Chamberlain for example towers above everyone numbers wise in the NBA what he averaged per season for a career tops most everyone's single season best by a lot but we hear less and less about him which is a shame and when we do many try to discredit him numbers spouting inaccuracies like he the NBA was shorter in those days (Avg Centers were actually taller in his era than currently ).    Many call it a timeline bias because they didnt live it or see it in person. We tend to think what we see and are living is better and superior.    

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2 hours ago, joecolts said:

Exactly the order I've had them for a few years now.  Even before the TB Super Bowl victory.  That's not bad company right there and 2 of the 5 wore the Horseshoe and another was drafted by the Colts but refused to wear it...so, HE'S DEAD TO ME ... lol!

That is my Top 5 too, If I had to choose a 6th/honorable mention, it would probably be Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers has won 3 League MVP's and a SB. Talent wise alone, he is almost unmatched.

 

I would probably go:

1. Tom Brady

2. Joe Montana

3. Peyton Manning

4. Johnny Unitas

5. John Elway

6. Aaron Rodgers

7. this gets really tough but Dan Marino probably belongs here eventhough he never won a SB. Talent, Stats, he did win a League MVP too, and did make 1 SB - lost to Montana and a stacked 49ers team. Marino also threw for 5000 yards when it was unheard of back in 1984 with 48 TD's lmao

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11 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

Do I truly believe real stats ? Well as a lifetime Statistician answer is obvious and a clear Yes. If we compare actual numbers and success as the determining factor  it isnt even close between Graham and anyone else.

 

Comparing eras is always tough and in all sports we tend to minimize achievements the further we get away from them even in sports that count every single championship like those other than Football does.  Wilt Chamberlain for example towers above everyone numbers wise in the NBA what he averaged per season for a career tops most everyone's single season best by a lot but we hear less and less about him which is a shame and when we do many try to discredit him numbers spouting inaccuracies like he the NBA was shorter in those days (Avg Centers were actually taller in his era than currently ).    Many call it a timeline bias because they didnt live it or see it in person. We tend to think what we see and are living is better and superior.    

I think Wilt gets a bad rap because he only won 2 Championships, Russell won 11. Having said that IMO Wilt was better than Russell. If it was a one on one game, Wilt would whip Russell. Only Kareem was better than Wilt IMO, Shaq was Wilt like too.

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