Contract Value for Big Q, Leonard, and Braden Smith

[shasta519]

27 minutes ago, runthepost said:

Imagine this forum if we had a QB of Mahomes level making 40 + million

The Colts did last year...except Rivers/JB wasn’t exactly Mahomes level on the field.

 

But if this team had Mahomes...that would be wonderful. Would much rather spend $40M on an elite QB than $25M on a dice roll.

 

PFF did an analysis of WAR above expectation for players drafted from 2017-current. In 4-year projections for Mahomes, he had a WAR of 11...while Q was at 1.6. So by this measure, Mahomes is ~7x more valuable (in WAR) than Q. Which means right now...with Mahomes at $40M AAV and Q at $6M AAV...they are basically equal value.
 

Obviously that will change when Q gets his contract. But clearly, even at $40M, a QB like Mahomes is still a bargain compared to other positions on their second contracts.

 

(And to be clear...I am not picking on Q or saying they shouldn’t sign him. PFF just happened to include his WAR in the article so I could use it for a comparison.)

 

[Superman]

21 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

The rookie deal amount isn’t relevant...but it’s meant to show the jump...which is definitely relevant. 
 

We aren’t talking about one player...it’s (3) players. And when you are suddenly paying x times more for the same handful of players...it has an impact on the cap and roster construction (things like efficiency, positional spending and surplus value). And for a forward-thinking GM like Ballard, I imagine those are important aspects. 
 

But I actually said I was not “eager” to trade anyone. I am just open to it if helps balance out cap and roster construction, along with providing premium draft capital that can help the team replace those players or address other areas. 
 

I would guess the number of GMs that actually trade players heading into their second contracts have a much more specific analysis (GMs like Lynch, Grier, Douglas and BB...to name a few). 
 

In my (admittedly novice) opinion, it just seems like having 5 players (out of 51) take up more than half of the cap space is a potentially untenable situation over time. 

 

To the bolded, the point of having cap room and draft picks is to add good players. I don't think good roster management necessitates getting rid of good players when their contracts come up, not when you have the resources to keep them. Especially not if you're a good team, with contention in reach. 

 

I think some overstate how "close" the Colts are, but I do think we're closer to being a contender than we are to being a team that should be stocking up picks to reshape the roster. And that's why 'forward-thinking Ballard' has been rolling forward tens of millions of cap every year.

 

As for the five players taking half the cap, that's not really where the Colts are, or will be. To keep it simple, once you factor in the pending cap increases -- the cap will be at $240m/year within the next two years, from the players' revenue split going up from 47% to 48.5%, from the TV contracts that are projected to nearly double to $10b/year, and from the 17th regular season game + 2 more playoff games -- having five $20m/year players is about 42% of your team's cap. And that's without going into contract structure and doing a year by year analysis of how your spending compares to the projected cap.

 

Teams with highly paid veteran QBs typically have about 40-50% of their cap tied into 6-8 players. Packers, Saints, Rams, Bucs, Chiefs, Steelers, Titans, etc. Pretty soon, you can add the Bills and Ravens to this list (and they're already close). The Cardinals are already there. 

 

Right now, the Colts only have four guys above $10m/year (Wentz, Buckner, Kelly, Stewart). We have some room to add highly paid players, and still supplement the roster in free agency. Admittedly, my perspective is based on projected dramatic increases to the cap, but I would assume the Colts are factoring in those same increases. And because the Colts have some wiggle room right now, they might use a unique cap climate in 2021 to take advantage of their flexibility over the next 2-3 seasons, and structure contracts in a way that allows them to keep their young guys and still add a couple of veterans in free agency.

 

[CR91]

I've said numerous times combined we're gonna pay around 50 mil a year.

 

Nelson 16-18 mil

Leonard 18-20 mil

Smith 14-15 mil

[Stoney]

On 3/2/2021 at 1:00 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It depends on how great the player is at his respective position. For example Lawrence Taylor was a pass rushing LB (OLB) and I would pay him/keep him over any QB that isn't in the top 5 and QB is the important position on the field. Who would you break the bank for, between Big Q and a QB like Jimmy G or Jameis Winston who are average QB's? Outside of Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Jackson, and Watson there are definitely players that play LB or Guards that are more valuable than some QB's, DE's, LT's, etc..

When I said DE, I meant pass rusher. I shouldve been more clear.. and I already stressed the importance of Big Q lol. There are players that are so impactful, their positions dont matter. Just saying, if you're breaking the bank you hope it's for the premier positions. 

[Stoney]

On 3/2/2021 at 12:59 AM, NewColtsFan said:

Of course he’s wrong.   There isn’t one blueprint for success.   There are various ways to succeed.   
 

Is it always wrong to take a guard in the first round?   Belichick did when he drafted Logan Mankins.    KC doesn’t have a first round wide receiver.   How is that possible, they’ve been to the last two Super Bowls.   When Carolina was very good a few years ago,  both their corners were Day 3 guys.   In fact at the height of the Legion of Boom, both if their corners were Day 3 guys.  Sherman and Browner.   Pittsburgh and Green Bay have both known great success.   I don’t think either has had a first round WR during the eras of Rogers and Roethlisberger.   
 

There are all sorts of examples of different ways to win.   The idea that there is a one size fits all blue print for success is folly. 
 

 

Yeahhh.. except all those teams you named that had success also had a premier QBs. I dont think you're understanding what either of us are saying, but it's ok. I'm also not sure why you're going on about players draft positions, if you find a CB on day 3 that becomes elite that's great, happily pay up..that's a premium position. we're talking about throwing the kitchen sink at players that dont play at premium positions. Like us forking over huge cash for a LG, RT, etc. Its not ideal, but if thats where you've been able to find talent at then you obviously gotta pay. But you hope it's for QB, pass rusher, LT, CB.. get it? Obviously there are different ways to win. No1 is denying that.

[WoolMagnet]

Besides the cap space, the 5th yr option on Q and perhaps even the franchise tag could allow Ballard to stagger them, if necessary.

  

[WoolMagnet]

On 3/3/2021 at 1:19 PM, CR91 said:

I've said numerous times combined we're gonna pay around 50 mil a year.

 

Nelson 16-18 mil

Leonard 18-20 mil

Smith 14-15 mil

Kinda what we spent on QBs last year.  Ha.

I love Smith, but its too bad we dont have another cheap draft pick in the pipeline.  He’s good, but Q and Leonard are borderline irreplaceable.

  

  Part of me thinks that if Smith is good enuff to pay that much, he should be able to handle LT.  But i know its not that simple.

 

New OL name:

”The Billion Dollar Line”.

[NewColtsFan]

40 minutes ago, Stoney said:

Yeahhh.. except all those teams you named that had success also had a premier QBs. I dont think you're understanding what either of us are saying, but it's ok. I'm also not sure why you're going on about players draft positions, if you find a CB on day 3 that becomes elite that's great, happily pay up..that's a premium position. we're talking about throwing the kitchen sink at players that dont play at premium positions. Like us forking over huge cash for a LG, RT, etc. Its not ideal, but if thats where you've been able to find talent at then you obviously gotta pay. But you hope it's for QB, pass rusher, LT, CB.. get it? Obviously there are different ways to win. No1 is denying that.

No one is denying that?    ok, I went back and re-read the conversation with Moosehead and then later you joined in. 
 

The poster I’m responding too is predicting, and has been predicting for a long time, that we will trade one of or both Q and Leonard because neither plays “premium positions”. 
You’re saying PAY THEM.    He’s saying we will TRADE THEM!     And he’s saying we SHOULD trade them.   Has been for a long time. 
 

Those two points of view are not the same.    You do NOT agree with him whether you know it or not. 

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Besides the cap space, the 5th yr option on Q and perhaps even the franchise tag could allow Ballard to stagger them, if necessary.

  

Now you’re suggesting we should wait to give Q his deserved next big contract until after his 6th year.   His full 5- year rookie contract plus the franchise tag year.   
 

100 percent not happening.   He’s the the first or second best player on the team.   We drafted him high and he’s outperformed his rookie contract.   That’s not how you treat players like this.  Ballard would never do that as long as Q are asking for a fair market value.   

[EastStreet]

Q is an example of why you want to use the 5th year option. It also flies in the face of trying to make your player happy. High performing players, at least most, don't want a 5YO exercised. We'll see what happens.

 

The relevant contracts IMO to keep in mind are 

• the top 5 LT contacts which currently range from 16-23M
• the highest paid guard contract with is Brandon Scherff at 18M, and second highest paid (Brooks at 14M).

Whenever Q gets a new contract, it'll be 18M or more IMO. Maybe a little less they have void years.

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Now you’re suggesting we should wait to give Q his deserved next big contract until after his 6th year.   His full 5- year rookie contract plus the franchise tag year.   
 

100 percent not happening.   He’s the the first or second best player on the team.   We drafted him high and he’s outperformed his rookie contract.   That’s not how you treat players like this.  Ballard would never do that as long as Q are asking for a fair market value.   

Not suggesting anything.

was simply pointing out we are in a good position.

  Simply pointing out we have options.  Q will get his payday.... here.  He knows it, Ballard knows it, we all know it.

  When i mentioned franchise, i meant that could buy us a year with Smith if we resign Leonard, Q, add players, etc, and need to “buy a year” with Smith.

 

  Think Sign Leonard and spend on others (rhodes, muhammed or whoever).... do 5th year on Q and franchise Smith.  This is worse-case if Ballard WANTS to get aggressive in FA   NOW and stretch those 3 “bigger contracts” .. and signing bonuses... out over several years.

I wasnt suggesting to use on Q or Leonard.

[NewColtsFan]

50 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Not suggesting anything.

was simply pointing out we are in a good position.

  Simply pointing out we have options.  Q will get his payday.... here.  He knows it, Ballard knows it, we all know it.

  When i mentioned franchise, i meant that could buy us a year with Smith if we resign Leonard, Q, add players, etc, and need to “buy a year” with Smith.

 

  Think Sign Leonard and spend on others (rhodes, muhammed or whoever).... do 5th year on Q and franchise Smith.  This is worse-case if Ballard WANTS to get aggressive in FA   NOW and stretch those 3 “bigger contracts” .. and signing bonuses... out over several years.

I wasnt suggesting to use on Q or Leonard.

Technically, we CAN do this.   I just don’t think we will.  
 

What’s in it for Brady Smith?   We would be delaying guaranteed money.  Lots of it.   He’d have to play five years, his rookie deal plus a franchise year hoping he doesn’t get hurt badly.   He’s looking at 4/50-ish at a minimum, and he’d have to play with the fear that if he got hurt, we’d still honor him with a very big contract filled with lots of guarantees.   That doesn’t happen very often because players and their agents don’t accept the word of a GM, even Chris Ballard.   They accept a signed contract with the necessary guarantees.   
 

I just saw an article this week about NYG GM Dave Gittlemen saying he’s not sure yet if he’ll pick up the 5th year option on Sequan Barkley because of his knee injury.   They have to decide later this spring.  You’d think it would be an easy decision, but for this GM, apparently it’s hard.   Very few players do favors for the team.   I wouldn’t anticipate it happening with the Colts, even with our great team culture. 

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Technically, we CAN do this.   I just don’t think we will.  
 

What’s in it for Brady Smith?   We would be delaying guaranteed money.  Lots of it.   He’d have to play five years, his rookie deal plus a franchise year hoping he doesn’t get hurt badly.   He’s looking at 4/50-ish at a minimum, and he’d have to play with the fear that if he got hurt, we’d still honor him with a very big contract filled with lots of guarantees.   That doesn’t happen very often because players and their agents don’t accept the word of a GM, even Chris Ballard.   They accept a signed contract with the necessary guarantees.   
 

I just saw an article this week about NYG GM Dave Gittlemen saying he’s not sure yet if he’ll pick up the 5th year option on Sequan Barkley because of his knee injury.   They have to decide later this spring.  You’d think it would be an easy decision, but for this GM, apparently it’s hard.   Very few players do favors for the team.   I wouldn’t anticipate it happening with the Colts, even with our great team culture. 

Oh well.... welcome to the NFL.

Happens all the time to players MUCH more established than Smith.

  Theres only so much money to spend every year.  If you wanna keep ‘em all , you gotta get creative sometimes.  Just offering an avenue if Ballard makes a bunch of moves outside  of the building.

[TomDiggs]

I think the reality with Q is that right now he is under contract for next year at $7.8M, his 5th year option at $13.8M and technically then could be franchised for back to back years after for $16.5M and $19.8M (it would not come to that, but still).

 

To me that means that if we never did an extension with him (which is insane because we absolutely will), he would still be looking at roughly 3 years and $50.1M beyond this year.

 

I say all of that to simply go on the premise that if I were his agent I would be looking at this like "hey, if my client doesn't get an extension you're gonna pay him $50M over 3 years and then he is gone. So that is the starting point. roughly $17M per year"

 

I think other people have it right that Scherff is going to set the standard that Q will then surpass. If we do not extend Q this year then we can wait to see what Scherff re-sets the G market at next year. But it is fair to think Q is likely going to be around $18M+ per year for 4-5 years. Especially when Scherff got 2 years and $33M plus whatever he gets next off-season.

 

 

Now Braden Smith's extension interests me a lot more. I know on other threads i was saying around $10M a year and some people were heavily scrutinizing that figure and saying more like $15M-$18M.

 

I just do not see it being that high if it is an extension (extension as opposed to signing a FA when you are competing with others namely).

 

Would Smith get that on the open market? Maybe he would. Some may even say it is likely. But teams that extend their own rarely go out and pay the top of the market competitive bidding war price when they extend their own. Unless they are generational players (like Q may be). Lane Johnson was the exception but it was also done when he was thought as the future LT too.

 

Daryl Williams is a solid RT. Smith is better but Williams is in the conversational ballpark in terms of being a good RT who is not old (he's 28 to Smith's 25). Williams just got 3 years and $28M......so maybe Smith at $10M is close. Maybe it is more like $12M....but I do not see it being $15M+ unless he is shifted to LT and proves to be as great there as he was on the right side.

 

I think Smith comes in somewhere around L.Collins or B.Bulaga or J.James....that is to say something around 4 years and $40M-$50M and i think that is very fair if it shakes out that way for him and for the Colts.

 

I really do hope we get the Leonard and Smith extensions done this year and then Q next. That would be ideal.

 

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, WoolMagnet said:

Oh well.... welcome to the NFL.

Happens all the time to players MUCH more established than Smith.

  Theres only so much money to spend every year.  If you wanna keep ‘em all , you gotta get creative sometimes.  Just offering an avenue if Ballard makes a bunch of moves outside  of the building.

 

 

The avenue is there.    I just don't see the Colts driving their car down that road.

 

As for the NFL....    yes,  it's a brutal cut-throat business.    But, for me,  that's part of the beauty of Ballard and Reich.   

They go against the grain.    They don't do stuff juts because they can.   They reward their top people.   They're fair with everyone.    I think it's one of the many reasons why agents VOTED Ballard the top GM at some point in 2020.    Because he's fair with his players.     He doesn't screw them just because he can.   He doesn't do it just because other teams do it.   He has a way of doing things,  of handling his business that's fair and decent.    Players and agents appreciate it.    Me too as a fan.

 

Could I be wrong?    Ab-so-lute-ly!     This is Year 5 for Ballard.   He's 2 out of 4.   Two good seasons.   Two not so good.

 

I'm sure Irsay wants the ledger to tip toward many more good seasons to come.    Maybe somebody gets pinched in an un-Ballard like way?    Maybe Ballard can work out some type of accomodation with someone like Smith?    I don't know?   But I think this is a key year for the program.     Things are gonna start happening and they're gonna start this coming week!

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

 

 

 

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

The avenue is there.    I just don't see the Colts driving their car down that road.

 

As for the NFL....    yes,  it's a brutal cut-throat business.    But, for me,  that's part of the beauty of Ballard and Reich.   

They go against the grain.    They don't do stuff juts because they can.   They reward their top people.   They're fair with everyone.    I think it's one of the many reasons why agents VOTED Ballard the top GM at some point in 2020.    Because he's fair with his players.     He doesn't screw them just because he can.   He doesn't do it just because other teams do it.   He has a way of doing things,  of handling his business that's fair and decent.    Players and agents appreciate it.    Me too as a fan.

 

Could I be wrong?    Ab-so-lute-ly!     This is Year 5 for Ballard.   He's 2 out of 4.   Two good seasons.   Two not so good.

 

I'm sure Irsay wants the ledger to tip toward many more good seasons to come.    Maybe somebody gets pinched in an un-Ballard like way?    Maybe Ballard can work out some type of accomodation with someone like Smith?    I don't know?   But I think this is a key year for the program.     Things are gonna start happening and they're gonna start this coming week!

 

 

 

I dont think, or hope, either.

Just pointing out the many tools Ballard has to keep the team together.  Flexible choices.  Not all are the best, but like paying 2 QBs 40+ million a year , sometimes you have to take a less than ideal path.

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

I dont think, or hope, either.

Just pointing out the many tools Ballard has to keep the team together.  Flexible choices.  Not all are the best, but like paying 2 QBs 40+ million a year , sometimes you have to take a less than ideal path.

Ballard paid that much because he felt it was the right thing to do.   It was less than ideal.   But it never hurt the team.   It was for just one year.   We could still do everything we wanted.    So there was no problem.  
 

And this past year, when Ballard could’ve played hard ball with JB, he elected not to.   That helps in the locker room.   Buys Ballard goodwill and credibility.  So while the decision still upsets some fans, I view it as yet another Ballard win that helps the team, not hurts it. 
 

I’ll probably wake up to posts explaining to me why I’m wrong.   But I’m used to that by now.    Not a problem. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 3/1/2021 at 8:02 PM, NewColtsFan said:

These positions have lesser value to YOU.  They do not have lesser value to Ballard, Reich, the coordinators, and their teammates. 

U dont know what their value is to the front office and the coaching staff. That will b decided by the length and value of the contracts the Cokts offer them.

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U dont know what their value is to the front office and the coaching staff. That will b decided by the length and value of the contracts the Cokts offer them.

They will get extended.    All pro players rarely get traded

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U dont know what their value is to the front office and the coaching staff. That will b decided by the length and value of the contracts the Cokts offer them.

I don’t know?   You’re soooo cute!     

 

Here’s what I do know....

 

Quenton Nelson was taken with the 6th puck in the draft.   You would not have done that.  Ballard said he knew Q was his pick at his Pro Day based on the SOUND he made.  Said all great players make a certain sound. 

 

Darius Leonard was taken with the 36th pick.  Ballard said at the time that the WILL linebacker was the second most important position in his defense, behind only the 3-tech.   
 

Braden Smith was taken with the 37th pick.   Ballard said then, he was the last starting caliber guard in the draft. 
 

(How am I doing so far?)

 

All have reached or exceeded expectations, performed at the highest level.   Ballard, who has built his franchise with team oriented players, will reward them all.  To trade them would blow up the culture he has spent four years building.  
 

(Here’s what else I know...)

 

The deals for all three players will be at least 4-years long.  They may even be 5-years long.   And, if he wants it, Q’s deal might even reach 6-years if he wants to get a $100 million contract.  All deals will be for at least $10 mill a year or more.   No one will get a short deal.  
 

Everything else,  Ballard and his staff will work out.  None of what I’ve said was hard to know.   Which means you’ll have some snappy comeback like.......  “We shall C.”

 

Oh, SNAP!  Who can compete with that?!?  
 

Good luck to you.... 

[Moosejawcolt]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t know?   You’re soooo cute!     

 

Here’s what I do know....

 

Quenton Nelson was taken with the 6th puck in the draft.   You would not have done that.  Ballard said he knew Q was his pick at his Pro Day based on the SOUND he made.  Said all great players make a certain sound. 

 

Darius Leonard was taken with the 36th pick.  Ballard said at the time that the WILL linebacker was the second most important position in his defense, behind only the 3-tech.   
 

Braden Smith was taken with the 37th pick.   Ballard said then, he was the last starting caliber guard in the draft. 
 

(How am I doing so far?)

 

All have reached or exceeded expectations, performed at the highest level.   Ballard, who has built his franchise with team oriented players, will reward them all.  To trade them would blow up the culture he has spent four years building.  
 

(Here’s what else I know...)

 

The deals for all three players will be at least 4-years long.  They may even be 5-years long.   And, if he wants it, Q’s deal might even reach 6-years if he wants to get a $100 million contract.  All deals will be for at least $10 mill a year or more.   No one will get a short deal.  
 

Everything else,  Ballard and his staff will work out.  None of what I’ve said was hard to know.   Which means you’ll have some snappy comeback like.......  “We shall C.”

 

Oh, SNAP!  Who can compete with that?!?  
 

Good luck to you.... 

Contract time will tell us...snap.

[Moosejawcolt]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t know?   You’re soooo cute!     

 

Here’s what I do know....

 

Quenton Nelson was taken with the 6th puck in the draft.   You would not have done that.  Ballard said he knew Q was his pick at his Pro Day based on the SOUND he made.  Said all great players make a certain sound. 

 

Darius Leonard was taken with the 36th pick.  Ballard said at the time that the WILL linebacker was the second most important position in his defense, behind only the 3-tech.   
 

Braden Smith was taken with the 37th pick.   Ballard said then, he was the last starting caliber guard in the draft. 
 

(How am I doing so far?)

 

All have reached or exceeded expectations, performed at the highest level.   Ballard, who has built his franchise with team oriented players, will reward them all.  To trade them would blow up the culture he has spent four years building.  
 

(Here’s what else I know...)

 

The deals for all three players will be at least 4-years long.  They may even be 5-years long.   And, if he wants it, Q’s deal might even reach 6-years if he wants to get a $100 million contract.  All deals will be for at least $10 mill a year or more.   No one will get a short deal.  
 

Everything else,  Ballard and his staff will work out.  None of what I’ve said was hard to know.   Which means you’ll have some snappy comeback like.......  “We shall C.”

 

Oh, SNAP!  Who can compete with that?!?  
 

Good luck to you.... 

I did find it amusing by Ballards comments regarding sounds. Is that like from the movie " trouble with the curve"? U know when the ball hits the mit or when a player hits the ball off the bat. In football is it how hard a player yells when he comes put of his three point stance or how hard he cracks his knuckles??? Now I am just so curious it is killing me!!

[NewColtsFan]

16 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Contract time will tell us...snap.

You think what I wrote is wrong?   Seriously?

 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

You think what I wrote is wrong?   Seriously?

 

Nope. Come contract time things can change. Sure the Colts may love Smith, Nelson snd Leonard. If say Leonard  asks for north of 20 million a year. The Colts may act like s spurned lover and decide take a different approach.

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Nope. Come contract time things can change. Sure the Colts may love Smith, Nelson snd Leonard. If say Leonard  asks for north of 20 million a year. The Colts may act like s spurned lover and decide take a different approach.

Yes...   that’s possible.  I don’t rule that out.  But of all the possible outcomes that one is the longest of long shots.   If you’re hanging your hope on the the possibility that one or more of those three will ask for the moon-plus,  I wouldn’t feel very good about those chances.  
 

You've been hoping, praying, practically demanding Ballard come to his senses, realize Nelson and Leonard were wrong draft picks and trade them now before he has to write big checks to both of them.  
 

Here’s a free pro tip:  That’s!  Not!  Happening!! 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Thank God @Moosejawcoltisn't our GM, he is in rare form when it comes to Nelson. He would get a QB damaged the way he thinks about O.Lineman. My new name for him is MooGrigsJaw  

[Valpo2004]

On 3/12/2021 at 10:59 PM, EastStreet said:

Q is an example of why you want to use the 5th year option. It also flies in the face of trying to make your player happy. High performing players, at least most, don't want a 5YO exercised. We'll see what happens.

 

The relevant contracts IMO to keep in mind are 

• the top 5 LT contacts which currently range from 16-23M
• the highest paid guard contract with is Brandon Scherff at 18M, and second highest paid (Brooks at 14M).

Whenever Q gets a new contract, it'll be 18M or more IMO. Maybe a little less they have void years.

 

It should be noted that Scherff's contract is so high because the franchise tag was exercised twice on him.  That isn't a long term deal he has there.

 

 

[Valpo2004]

On 3/3/2021 at 1:19 PM, CR91 said:

I've said numerous times combined we're gonna pay around 50 mil a year.

 

Nelson 16-18 mil

Leonard 18-20 mil

Smith 14-15 mil

 

I would say these numbers are fairly accurate.  We might be able to get Smith for a few million less because unlike the other 2 he's not a pro-bowl/all pro caliber player.  14 to 15 million would put him at #3 on the RT market which seems a little high to me.  I would say 12 to 14 mil for Smith.  

[Moosejawcolt]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Thank God @Moosejawcoltisn't our GM, he is in rare form when it comes to Nelson. He would get a QB damaged the way he thinks about O.Lineman. My new name for him is MooGrigsJaw  

Interesting.  I dont think i  said once in my posts that I dont value Olinemen. I just dont value at guard at say 20 million a year even if he is an all pro 3x's.

[Four2itus]

1 hour ago, Valpo2004 said:

I would say 12 to 14 mil for Smith.

4 years 46, 22 gtd?

[Valpo2004]

5 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

4 years 46, 22 gtd?

 

Probably 4 years 48 on the low end.  Not sure what the Gtd money will be on it but I am guessing 15 to 24m.  

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

It should be noted that Scherff's contract is so high because the franchise tag was exercised twice on him.  That isn't a long term deal he has there.

Yes, but it still impacts the market. Agents will still point to it. The old saying is "it's worth whatever the fool is willing to pay for it". 

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Interesting.  I dont think i  said once in my posts that I dont value Olinemen. I just dont value at guard at say 20 million a year even if he is an all pro 3x's.

You are just looking at the position he plays, that is what many people do in here. Example - oh he is just a RB so he doesn't have much value. I respect value of position and smart enough to know that QB, LT, and Edge Rusher are the most important positions. Having said that there are certain outliers like Nelson who is the best at his position. Re-signing him is a must, he is the face of the team and the best at his position. 

[Moosejawcolt]

46 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You are just looking at the position he plays, that is what many people do in here. Example - oh he is just a RB so he doesn't have much value. I respect value of position and smart enough to know that QB, LT, and Edge Rusher are the most important positions. Having said that there are certain outliers like Nelson who is the best at his position. Re-signing him is a must, he is the face of the team and the best at his position. 

When your guard is the face of your franchise that is saying something

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

When your guard is the face of your franchise that is saying something

He is because he is the best player in the league at the position he plays and we don't have a top 10 QB in the league as of now. Maybe Wentz will have a great year but I am not sold on that. Without a good O.Line, Wentz would have all sorts of problems.

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

When your guard is the face of your franchise that is saying something

He’s the face...  today.   As you may have heard, we had a player whose last name, ironically was Luck.   He used to be the face of the Franchise.   Now that he’s not, the new face is the toughest guy on the block.  The toughest guy on ANY block.

 

But apparently, in addition to your unique football expertise,  you’re now also a marketing expert too!   Oh, how lucky we are! 

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

When your guard is the face of your franchise that is saying something

Tell us all what it says and why is it a negative thing to you. 

Why is it you have a problem with it?

[Moosejawcolt]

18 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Tell us all what it says and why is it a negative thing to you. 

Why is it you have a problem with it?

Nothing. Great player. I want exciting. I want a Bob Sanders.......Manning.....hell I will even take Leonard....lol. A guard pancaking. Gets old for me hahaha. Thats just me

[Moosejawcolt]

23 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

He’s the face...  today.   As you may have heard, we had a player whose last name, ironically was Luck.   He used to be the face of the Franchise.   Now that he’s not, the new face is the toughest guy on the block.  The toughest guy on ANY block.

 

But apparently, in addition to your unique football expertise,  you’re now also a marketing expert too!   Oh, how lucky we are! 

Lol. Got my degree but in another field. Marketing would b cool though. I would love Taylor. Exciting....fast....powerful. Gets me excited. Maybe in a couple he will be the face of the franchise lol