Does Bill Belichick have something to prove this offseason/season?

[FortheWin 251]

Found this debate super interesting.  I like Louis Riddick a lot. I do think Bill feels he has something to prove but I wonder if he is too old and set in his ways to get the players to come to NE.  He needs a QB obviously but also skill players too and LBs and pass rushers. Their roster is pretty bare but he has a ton of cap and high draft picks.

It is also interesting to me that both Watson and Wilson have named the Jets as preferred destinations and not NE. Never thought I would see that ever happen. LOL

 

 

[bababooey 85]

He needs to prove that the Patriot way isn’t just the Brady way. 7 seasons as a HC without Brady and one playoff appearance/win to show for it. Maybe he just stinks.

[crazycolt1 7,557]

Belichick is wearing 7 super bowl rings. He don't have to prove horse dung. 

[bababooey 85]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Belichick is wearing 7 super bowl rings. He don't have to prove horse dung. 

Thanks to Brady.

[crazycolt1 7,557]

1 hour ago, bababooey said:

Thanks to Brady.

You are forgetting that Brady had a pretty damn good team around him and wouldn't have done anything without that team. 

[NewColtsFan 9,762]

8 hours ago, bababooey said:

He needs to prove that the Patriot way isn’t just the Brady way. 7 seasons as a HC without Brady and one playoff appearance/win to show for it. Maybe he just stinks.

There is no one anywhere in football who thinks Bill Belichick “stinks”.

 

If you want to be taken seriously,  you’re going to do better than maybe BB stinks. 

[chad72 7,872]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

There is no one anywhere in football who thinks Bill Belichick “stinks”.

 

If you want to be taken seriously,  you’re going to do better than maybe BB stinks. 

 

I guess folks forgot how the Giants roughed up the 49ers with Montana consistently with BB as DC and slowed down Jim Kelly and that high octane offense considerably to win that "wide right" SB where the Bills were heavily favored, just like Brady's 1st SB where the Rams were heavily favored and BB came with another great defensive game plan. Not to mention, he had a very good game plan to shut down Reid and Mahomes in 2018 for an entire half in both the regular season game and playoff game.

 

Bottom line, you cannot win in this league without a very good QB, even if it is not an elite QB. Cam Newton was far from it last year, was downright average, and you could see it in one game when they wouldn't even let him throw on a 4th & goal from inside the 5 after failing to run it in 3 times in a row. Put Philip Rivers with Belichick, he would have probably won the division away from the Bills running most of the offense McDaniels ran with Brady, IMO, and we know Rivers is very good, just not Brady good.

 

Like you would say with Andrew Luck, oh how quickly they forget!!!  

[RollerColt 2,785]

No, I don't think Bill has anything left to prove. Sure, this year was disappointing for NE, but despite the situation the team was always competitive. He's helped bring 7 rings to that community. 

[FortheWin 251]

2 hours ago, RollerColt said:

No, I don't think Bill has anything left to prove. Sure, this year was disappointing for NE, but despite the situation the team was always competitive. He's helped bring 7 rings to that community. 

Bill is as competitive as they come. I think he for sure wants to prove he can be successfully without Brady. He does not need to prove anything but the narrative out there is deafening. He hears it and wants to change it, I am sure.  BTW, its 6 rings. I know it is tempting to give Brady's current ring to Bill given they were together forever. LOL

[RollerColt 2,785]

14 minutes ago, FortheWin said:

Bill is as competitive as they come. I think he for sure wants to prove he can be successfully without Brady. He does not need to prove anything but the narrative out there is deafening. He hears it and wants to change it, I am sure.  BTW, its 6 rings. I know it is tempting to give Brady's current ring to Bill given they were together forever. LOL

Ha, yeah that's my bad. I really need to start sleeping again. 

[Four2itus 5,238]

Yes, he has to prove that he isn't a cheater. Safe to say, I won't be expecting this revelation anytime soon. 

[NewColtsFan 9,762]

5 hours ago, FortheWin said:

Bill is as competitive as they come. I think he for sure wants to prove he can be successfully without Brady. He does not need to prove anything but the narrative out there is deafening. He hears it and wants to change it, I am sure.  BTW, its 6 rings. I know it is tempting to give Brady's current ring to Bill given they were together forever. LOL

Well...   depending on how you count them...   BB has 8 rings.   That includes 2 he got as the DC for the Giants.   

[crazycolt1 7,557]

6 hours ago, FortheWin said:

Bill is as competitive as they come. I think he for sure wants to prove he can be successfully without Brady. He does not need to prove anything but the narrative out there is deafening. He hears it and wants to change it, I am sure.  BTW, its 6 rings. I know it is tempting to give Brady's current ring to Bill given they were together forever. LOL

Don't forget that BB got two rings with the Giants. 

I may be wrong but it is BB that has the most rings. 

[NFLUp 7]

6 hours ago, FortheWin said:

Bill is as competitive as they come. I think he for sure wants to prove he can be successfully without Brady. He does not need to prove anything but the narrative out there is deafening. He hears it and wants to change it, I am sure.  BTW, its 6 rings. I know it is tempting to give Brady's current ring to Bill given they were together forever. LOL

No, it’s 8 rings.

[2006Coltsbestever 22,615]

I don't think BB has anything to prove. I always said and still stand by this, it was 50/50 on who deserved the credit for the Pats SB wins between BB and Tom. A lot of people have tried to give BB more than 50% of the credit or Tom more than 50% but I never bought in to that. BB's system was great and Tom was great in his system. Perfect chemistry.

 

Having said all of that, had it not been for BB drafting Tom, Tom may have went undrafted in reality - he went in round 6. BB groomed him and seen something in him to draft him. BB also was the DC that beat a powerful Bills team in SB 25. Tom winning the SB this year in Tampa was great for his legacy but Tampa has a pretty loaded roster. Before the season started, I even said it wouldn't shock me if Tampa made the SB, I had them winning 10 games in their sleep. I posted that here on this site. When I looked at the Pats roster and Cam at QB, I had them pegged at 8-8. BB had crap to work with, I was close they went 7-9 = very expected. Give BB just a good QB and an improve defense, he will go 10-6 in his sleep lol.

[FortheWin 251]

17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well...   depending on how you count them...   BB has 8 rings.   That includes 2 he got as the DC for the Giants.   

Sure. But the post was about his rings in NE as a HC.

[FortheWin 251]

12 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't think BB has anything to prove. I always said and still stand by this, it was 50/50 on who deserved the credit for the Pats SB wins between BB and Tom. A lot of people have tried to give BB more than 50% of the credit or Tom more than 50% but I never bought in to that. BB's system was great and Tom was great in his system. Perfect chemistry.

 

Having said all of that, had it not been for BB drafting Tom, Tom may have went undrafted in reality - he went in round 6. BB groomed him and seen something in him to draft him. BB also was the DC that beat a powerful Bills team in SB 25. Tom winning the SB this year in Tampa was great for his legacy but Tampa has a pretty loaded roster. Before the season started, I even said it wouldn't shock me if Tampa made the SB, I had them winning 10 games in their sleep. I posted that here on this site. When I looked at the Pats roster and Cam at QB, I had them pegged at 8-8. BB had crap to work with, I was close they went 7-9 = very expected. Give BB just a good QB and an improve defense, he will go 10-6 in his sleep lol.

That is not the narrative anymore though. This season was not just about Brady winning and Bill losing, it was about how the teams looked all year. The Tampa team morphed into looking like the Patriot teams. They went from one of the most penalized teams last year to middle of the pack this year. Their offense which was always talented, all of a sudden became clutch especially in the post-season and their defense transformed from a very good defense all season to a dominant defense in the post-season which was also reminiscent of the Pats teams.  On the flip side, the Patriots looked out of sorts all season. Belichick became an excuse machine blaming the cap, Covid, practice time, etc as reasons for their sub-par season which he had never done in the past.

 

In short, the Patriot Way appears to have really been the Brady Way and that is what Bill is needing to disprove this upcoming season to change the narrative.

[NewColtsFan 9,762]

On 2/25/2021 at 9:40 AM, FortheWin said:

Found this debate super interesting.  I like Louis Riddick a lot. I do think Bill feels he has something to prove but I wonder if he is too old and set in his ways to get the players to come to NE.  He needs a QB obviously but also skill players too and LBs and pass rushers. Their roster is pretty bare but he has a ton of cap and high draft picks.

It is also interesting to me that both Watson and Wilson have named the Jets as preferred destinations and not NE. Never thought I would see that ever happen. LOL

 

 

Part of the reason the Pats roster looked so thin, isn’t just because they let Brady go.

 

8 players, including key staters like LB Dont’a Hightower, S Patrick Chung, OT Marcus Cannon and WR Marqise Lee all sat out last year due to Covid. 
 

I believe New England list more players sitting out than any other team. 

[FortheWin 251]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Part of the reason the Pats roster looked so thin, isn’t just because they let Brady go.

 

8 players, including key staters like LB Dont’a Hightower, S Patrick Chung, OT Marcus Cannon and WR Marqise Lee all sat out last year due to Covid. 
 

I believe New England list more players sitting out than any other team. 

Yes. They did have the most opt-outs. I think most of them are coming back this year which will help if Bill decides to keep them or release them. Many of them are older and are on big contracts so it will be interesting to see what they do.

 

Brady always gave him the luxury of building a middle class team because he could elevate the talent. It will be much more difficult now without the QB. Perhaps some of our Pats posters could shed light on what they will do at QB. I saw they were not in on Wentz at all and they are not in on Watson or Wilson either so I wonder if they are thinking Cam again?  The QB is what did them in the most last year. Cam just didn't have it at all. 

 

BTW, I have been meaning to tell you for some time that I really enjoy your posts a lot. I don't post a ton up here but I do read the site most days and I always enjoy your takes. You really put a lot of thought and solid reasoning behind your points. I enjoy that. 

[NewColtsFan 9,762]

10 minutes ago, FortheWin said:

Yes. They did have the most opt-outs. I think most of them are coming back this year which will help if Bill decides to keep them or release them. Many of them are older and are on big contracts so it will be interesting to see what they do.

 

Brady always gave him the luxury of building a middle class team because he could elevate the talent. It will be much more difficult now without the QB. Perhaps some of our Pats posters could shed light on what they will do at QB. I saw they were not in on Wentz at all and they are not in on Watson or Wilson either so I wonder if they are thinking Cam again?  The QB is what did them in the most last year. Cam just didn't have it at all. 

 

BTW, I have been meaning to tell you for some time that I really enjoy your posts a lot. I don't post a ton up here but I do read the site most days and I always enjoy your takes. You really put a lot of thought and solid reasoning behind your points. I enjoy that. 

Good post...   and that was before your very kind words there at the end.   That was most unexpected and very generous.  Appreciate them very much. 
 

Another way Brady helped them, is that for most of his career, he took deep discounts on his contract.   I believe he re-did his deals a number of times.   He might’ve saved NE (guessing here) 50-100 million over his career.  That money got re-invested into the team.  You can build quite a roster when you don’t have to pay your franchise QB top dollar. 
 

Thanks again.   Hope you enjoy the website. 

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever 22,615]

1 hour ago, FortheWin said:

That is not the narrative anymore though. This season was not just about Brady winning and Bill losing, it was about how the teams looked all year. The Tampa team morphed into looking like the Patriot teams. They went from one of the most penalized teams last year to middle of the pack this year. Their offense which was always talented, all of a sudden became clutch especially in the post-season and their defense transformed from a very good defense all season to a dominant defense in the post-season which was also reminiscent of the Pats teams.  On the flip side, the Patriots looked out of sorts all season. Belichick became an excuse machine blaming the cap, Covid, practice time, etc as reasons for their sub-par season which he had never done in the past.

 

In short, the Patriot Way appears to have really been the Brady Way and that is what Bill is needing to disprove this upcoming season to change the narrative.

Believe it or not my above post was actually a compliment toward Brady because a lot of fans and media have always given BB more credit for the Pats SB wins. I think it was at least 50/50 anyway. Of course the Bucs were going improve big time with Brady in there and the INT machine out of there, that was common sense. I remember when Peyton went to Denver, I told everyone he will win at least 1 SB because now they have a Top 3 QB of all-time and they did win 1. I still don't think BB has anything to prove but that is my opinion, Brady however did prove he can win it all without BB which helps his GOAT status.

[crazycolt1 7,557]

45 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Believe it or not my above post was actually a compliment toward Brady because a lot of fans and media have always given BB more credit for the Pats SB wins. I think it was at least 50/50 anyway. Of course the Bucs were going improve big time with Brady in there and the INT machine out of there, that was common sense. I remember when Peyton went to Denver, I told everyone he will win at least 1 SB because now they have a Top 3 QB of all-time and they did win 1. I still don't think BB has anything to prove but that is my opinion, Brady however did prove he can win it all without BB which helps his GOAT status.

Brady leaving New England was just a fraction of the problems the Patriots had that effected their poor play this last season. 

BB hocked the next few years to win a couple of more rings. Brady did help by not demanding a larger part of their cap but it was a lot more than that. 

BB missed on a few draft picks no doubt but he didn't forget how to coach. 

The only reason he signed Newton was he signed super cheap. It was a last resort. 

[FortheWin 251]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Believe it or not my above post was actually a compliment toward Brady because a lot of fans and media have always given BB more credit for the Pats SB wins. I think it was at least 50/50 anyway. Of course the Bucs were going improve big time with Brady in there and the INT machine out of there, that was common sense. I remember when Peyton went to Denver, I told everyone he will win at least 1 SB because now they have a Top 3 QB of all-time and they did win 1. I still don't think BB has anything to prove but that is my opinion, Brady however did prove he can win it all without BB which helps his GOAT status.

I get what you are saying. I don't believe coaching is worth anywhere near 50% in any team sport. It is always the players especially when you have a transcendent, generational player like Brady or Manning.

[2006Coltsbestever 22,615]

39 minutes ago, FortheWin said:

I get what you are saying. I don't believe coaching is worth anywhere near 50% in any team sport. It is always the players especially when you have a transcendent, generational player like Brady or Manning.

Having a great QB is no doubt huge, it covers up a lot of other problems. Without Manning we wouldn't of been near the team we were from 2003-2009. I just often wonder though, had BB not drafted Brady (taking a chance on him) had Brady even of been drafted?

54 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Brady leaving New England was just a fraction of the problems the Patriots had that effected their poor play this last season. 

BB hocked the next few years to win a couple of more rings. Brady did help by not demanding a larger part of their cap but it was a lot more than that. 

BB missed on a few draft picks no doubt but he didn't forget how to coach. 

The only reason he signed Newton was he signed super cheap. It was a last resort. 

I agree, I think even had Rivers been the Pats QB last year that the Pats would've won 10 games. Cam was awful.

[FortheWin 251]

39 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Having a great QB is no doubt huge, it covers up a lot of other problems. Without Manning we wouldn't of been near the team we were from 2003-2009. I just often wonder though, had BB not drafted Brady (taking a chance on him) had Brady even of been drafted?

Hard to say but Brady was not selected to even be the back up on NE. He was the 4th string on a team loaded at QB with an in prime Bledsoe. He beat out everyone in front of him in one year's time and Bledsoe never got his job back. Suffice to say that wherever he went even if undrafted he was going to be an organizational game changer. He showed that again this year in Tampa at age 43.

[2006Coltsbestever 22,615]

5 minutes ago, FortheWin said:

Hard to say but Brady was not selected to even be the back up on NE. He was the 4th string on a team loaded at QB with an in prime Bledsoe. He beat out everyone in front of him in one year's time and Bledsoe never got his job back. Suffice to say that wherever he went even if undrafted he was going to be an organizational game changer. He showed that again this year in Tampa at age 43.

He and Manning have a lot in common as in any team they play for they are going to win 10-12 games almost every year. Both are great leaders and make players around them better. Brady has the edge in Championships 7-2 so it is tough to argue that he isn't the GOAT. Manning still won 2 which is good and is the best regular season QB of all-time IMO winning the 5 MVP's, Brady is the best post season QB of all-time hence the 7 Rings.

[NFLUp 7]

On 2/27/2021 at 11:19 AM, FortheWin said:

That is not the narrative anymore though. This season was not just about Brady winning and Bill losing, it was about how the teams looked all year. The Tampa team morphed into looking like the Patriot teams. They went from one of the most penalized teams last year to middle of the pack this year. Their offense which was always talented, all of a sudden became clutch especially in the post-season and their defense transformed from a very good defense all season to a dominant defense in the post-season which was also reminiscent of the Pats teams.  On the flip side, the Patriots looked out of sorts all season. Belichick became an excuse machine blaming the cap, Covid, practice time, etc as reasons for their sub-par season which he had never done in the past.

 

In short, the Patriot Way appears to have really been the Brady Way and that is what Bill is needing to disprove this upcoming season to change the narrative.

Mazz, from Patriot Planet?

Interesting. 

[GoPats 133]

Honestly, as a lifelong Pats fan, I have to - at this point - admit that the Dynasty was 70% Brady, 30% Belichick. Great coaching is essential, but no coach says, "OK, make sure you go out there and throw a critical interception at the worst possible time to ensure that we lose this one," LOL... 

 

Maybe that'll change in the coming years, but one season removed from the divorce, I don't see how anyone could logically disagree. 

 

Also worth noting that Belichick built his reputation on defense, not offense. 

 

Brady just epitomizes the "it" factor. Not something you can measure or quantify, and not something that statistics will bear out. It's throwing an 11-yard completion on 3rd-and-9. It's converting a 2-point attempt in a critical moment. The dude is just money, and like him or hate him, it's hard to deny that at this point. 

 

I wouldn't want any other coach in NE, but I'm pushing 50 now and have seen some really, really bad teams. Players make the plays, and there's only a certain extent to which you can "coach up" guys who don't have it. 

 

[DeathByEagle 54]

On 2/25/2021 at 7:26 PM, bababooey said:

Thanks to Brady.

 

Brady has had some very good teams around him, esp on Defense to help him with those SB win. Even this past SB with the Bucs. Brady did not win that SB by himself, the defense played a major role in that win. Brady just did his job to not lose it by playing good game management football. 

 

Also helps in the first few SBs the Pats were found to be cheating. Lets not brush off the significance that spygate played in games they only won by 3 points each. Without spygate they more then likely lose all 3 of those SBs. But that also plays a factor against Belichick, lol. Even after spygate, both continued to be elite in their roles for a very long time. 

 

Im not down playing Brady and the achievements he has made. But i cant down play what Bill has done either. Both will go down as the greatest QB and Coach ever for a very long time. I dont think either will have to do anything ever again to prove it. 

[DeathByEagle 54]

edited above, didnt mean to resubmit same post