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I know there were reports to the contrary out, but it seems as if the Colts are interested in bringing back Houston as they should be, and not letting him get to FA market.   https://fanside

He plays the run a little better than Houston, that's about it.   Sacks alone Houston had 8 sacks this year. Watt has 9 in the last 2 years.   Over the last 5 years Houston has 41.

4 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

I think we should try and get Okwara from the Lions or JJ.  This should help our defense with more sacks due to the double teaming on JJ or Okwara, and frees up DeForest also to get more sacks as well....

Definitely  need more quality  pass  rush. If only we could trade the 21st for a proven one like Buckner  trade

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Turay

Lewis

Banagu

Autry

Mohammed

 

    Somebody could step up in this group at DE. IMO they should grab BPA at LT, DE or CB at 21. 
    There’s times when signing FA makes sense(Buckner). Too many times though, I see fans clamoring for a “name” when they have capable players in their system already. 
  I like the idea of signing your own but pulling the trigger on FA acquisitions, where appropriate, to make the team better. Ultimately, I trust this organization to make the right moves, more times than not.

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I don’t think JJ Watt fits this defense.  He had been a great player but Houston is aging better.  I would rather resign him and Autry and it’s time for one of these DL 2nd round picks to start performing at least as an average starter. 

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On 2/23/2021 at 7:21 PM, joecolts said:

At this stage of their careers, I'd take Houston every day and twice on Sunday's over J.J. Watt.  For as good as J.J. Watt WAS, he has proven incapable of staying healthy and on the field.  Houston on the other hand is like a Ford truck...built tough.  

Let's not give Houstons health too much praise.  It has been great the past 2 seasons, but he missed 4 games in 2018, 1 game in 2017 and 11 games in 2016.  That's still better than Watt the past 4-5 years.  

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I think they need to bring Houston back. He still has gas in the tank and plays a rock solid DE. But they also need another pass rusher. Either draft him or spend the $ on the right FA. They absolutely have to get better at getting to the QB if the D is to take the next step. 

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

Let's not give Houstons health too much praise.  It has been great the past 2 seasons, but he missed 4 games in 2018, 1 game in 2017 and 11 games in 2016.  That's still better than Watt the past 4-5 years.  

Hence the reason I said, "At this stage of their careers."  Houston's health has been better, more stable and a reliable player to see the field the past 2 years.  Again, I'll take Houston at this stage of their careers.

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5 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

I dont want Watt here. His health is too much of a concern. 

He isn't prone to soft tissue injuries. He is healthy and he has a big chip on his shoulder. However, I don't think the Colts would pay for him and I think he will want to play in a 3-4 defense.

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On 2/23/2021 at 6:37 PM, w87r said:

He plays the run a little better than Houston, that's about it.

 

Sacks alone Houston had 8 sacks this year. Watt has 9 in the last 2 years.

 

Over the last 5 years Houston has 41.5 sacks to Watts 26.5 sacks

 

 

Health is a major thing and Houston has been much more durable.

 

Watt has missed 32 games over last 5 years

 

Houston has missed 16 games over last 5 years

 

and zero the last 2 seasons here.

Isn't Watt the most double teamed player in the NFL?  That's a vital stat you missed, there's so much more here, how does he impact the players around him, do you have that stat?  Great players lift up those around them nd Watt does that in spades.  The two guys I said the Colts should get in October, Wentz and Watt.  Deals can be done and money can be worked out.  The organization has to compel the player, I imagine a world where teams have to handle both Watt and Buckner coming off the right side.  You then have to keep extras in to block which means fewer guys releasing in routes.  If Watt can be done on a two year deal, that's massive and a sign to the team as a whole that we truly have one objective.  To me, it's the defensive version of signing a guy like Brady or Manning. And perhaps you even get a deal to keep Houston as a vision rounds into form, just as I told you it would with Wentz.

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6 hours ago, Rally5 said:

Isn't Watt the most double teamed player in the NFL?  That's a vital stat you missed, there's so much more here, how does he impact the players around him, do you have that stat?  Great players lift up those around them nd Watt does that in spades.  The two guys I said the Colts should get in October, Wentz and Watt.  Deals can be done and money can be worked out.  The organization has to compel the player, I imagine a world where teams have to handle both Watt and Buckner coming off the right side.  You then have to keep extras in to block which means fewer guys releasing in routes.  If Watt can be done on a two year deal, that's massive and a sign to the team as a whole that we truly have one objective.  To me, it's the defensive version of signing a guy like Brady or Manning. And perhaps you even get a deal to keep Houston as a vision rounds into form, just as I told you it would with Wentz.

Watt can move on elsewhere for his $15-$16m rumored offer and his injury history.

 

 

As far as the bolded, miss me with that. You didn't tell me jack, and Wentz to Indianapolis wasn't some big surprise out of left field.

 

 

Another "I told you soer", don't get much worse than those.

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7 hours ago, Rally5 said:

Isn't Watt the most double teamed player in the NFL?  That's a vital stat you missed, there's so much more here, how does he impact the players around him, do you have that stat?  Great players lift up those around them nd Watt does that in spades.  The two guys I said the Colts should get in October, Wentz and Watt.  Deals can be done and money can be worked out.  The organization has to compel the player, I imagine a world where teams have to handle both Watt and Buckner coming off the right side.  You then have to keep extras in to block which means fewer guys releasing in routes.  If Watt can be done on a two year deal, that's massive and a sign to the team as a whole that we truly have one objective.  To me, it's the defensive version of signing a guy like Brady or Manning. And perhaps you even get a deal to keep Houston as a vision rounds into form, just as I told you it would with Wentz.

I think a guy named Donald is the most double teamed guy in the NFL

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4 hours ago, w87r said:

Watt can move on elsewhere for his $15-$16m rumored offer and his injury history.

 

 

As far as the bolded, miss me with that. You didn't tell me jack, and Wentz to Indianapolis wasn't some big surprise out of left field.

 

 

Another "I told you soer", don't get much worse than those.

Funny, you're an admin, go check the date...keep pulling stats.

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45 minutes ago, Rally5 said:

Keep in mind a few things....

  1. Houston is a 3-4. The dominant end on 3-4s are typically targets for doubles more than any DL position (4-3 or 3-4).
  2. Houston's DL (the other DE and NT) and both OLBs are pretty horrible. I don't think any of them rated above 50s in PFF, and IIRC, several were below 50, which is just plain bad. Point being, is that nobody else demanded attention, so why not double Watt, that is, if he's even on the field. 
  3. You're comment above about players raising the level of play from others. That's great and all, but that's harder to do when you go to a new team, and it's even harder to do when you're not on the field most of the season.

 

I'm a fan of Watt. I think he's one of the best to ever play the position. That said, his name and history will demand a lot more than he's worth. Even when he was on the field, his production was down comparatively in 2020.

 

While I wish we got home more, IMO it's more a product of conservative D scheme. Our blitz % is near league low, and Buckner was the only player on the team with more than 100 pass rushing snaps. With all that, Indy was still ranked 14th in pass rush.  That's pretty good considering the very low blitz %.

 

Also of note, Houston was 6th in the league in pass rush win rate. Watt was 8th. Would Watt be better on the Colts? Probably. But it's more likely the surrounding team makes him better, than vice versa. It's also likely that Indy uses him as a situational guy, or at least rotational, like they use Houston now. Probably less.

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14 minutes ago, BluesGirl said:

To not bring back Huston is a HUGE mistake.     Better than Watt   IMO. 

I'd love to have both, but if I had to pick, Houston easily. Only so much cap and only 2 early picks as of now... , and several big holes to fill. 

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

I'd love to have both, but if I had to pick, Houston easily. Only so much cap and only 2 early picks as of now... , and several big holes to fill. 

Houston is very under rated as far as Im concerned 

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2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I'd love to have both, but if I had to pick, Houston easily. Only so much cap and only 2 early picks as of now... , and several big holes to fill. 

I agree def need to find another strip sack master like freeney and mathis

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2 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I agree def need to find another strip sack master like freeney and mathis

Yea right?   Mathis just had a birthday and on facebook I saw his 129.5 sacks on video. That was amazing what he did!!!! 

 

I want this again!!!

 

Rush DE  (need).  3 tech (done).  WLB (done)  all we need is a safety (Bob) and  this D is legit   

 

 

 

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On 2/26/2021 at 8:00 AM, AwesomeAustin said:

I don’t think JJ Watt fits this defense.  He had been a great player but Houston is aging better.  I would rather resign him and Autry and it’s time for one of these DL 2nd round picks to start performing at least as an average starter. 


Bringing Autry and Houston back over Watt is a reasonable take.  Believing that Houston is aging better while not necessarily provable is also fairly reasonable. 
 

Saying JJ Watt is not a fit for the Colts’ defense is completely unreasonable. Watt’s skill set fits any defense. 

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10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Keep in mind a few things....

  1. Houston is a 3-4. The dominant end on 3-4s are typically targets for doubles more than any DL position (4-3 or 3-4).
  2. Houston's DL (the other DE and NT) and both OLBs are pretty horrible. I don't think any of them rated above 50s in PFF, and IIRC, several were below 50, which is just plain bad. Point being, is that nobody else demanded attention, so why not double Watt, that is, if he's even on the field. 
  3. You're comment above about players raising the level of play from others. That's great and all, but that's harder to do when you go to a new team, and it's even harder to do when you're not on the field most of the season.

 

I'm a fan of Watt. I think he's one of the best to ever play the position. That said, his name and history will demand a lot more than he's worth. Even when he was on the field, his production was down comparatively in 2020.

 

While I wish we got home more, IMO it's more a product of conservative D scheme. Our blitz % is near league low, and Buckner was the only player on the team with more than 100 pass rushing snaps. With all that, Indy was still ranked 14th in pass rush.  That's pretty good considering the very low blitz %.

 

Also of note, Houston was 6th in the league in pass rush win rate. Watt was 8th. Would Watt be better on the Colts? Probably. But it's more likely the surrounding team makes him better, than vice versa. It's also likely that Indy uses him as a situational guy, or at least rotational, like they use Houston now. Probably less.

I like Houston, I'm very pleased if we re-sign him.  Watt is in a different league, there are questions certainly around age for both, durability for JJ and price.  If you pair Watt and Buckner that is a massive issue for offenses to contend with, especially on the right side.  We've learned if you want to win a Superbowl against an HP offense you have to do it with your front four, full stop.  Houston doesn't quite bring that level of juice in my opinion, Watt does.  As for lifting up teams your not part of, check with Manning and Brady, Watt has that type of lift in my opinion.  Look, I fully recognize it's a bit of a pipedream, where I thought Wentz was a sure thing before he was even pulled in Philly (that's when I got dismantled here by GM wannabe's) I don't think we'll sign Watt unless he wants to be here and he does a favorable deal.   There's simply too much we don't know, what I do know is a Watt/Buckner combo would be amongst the best we've ever seen.  I like that.  I think we've entered a window for this team, the beginning of a window where we're young, experienced enough and cap friendly,  I'd bring in a guy who has one goal, a perfect culture fit and first ballot HOF, yeah, I go for that juice.  Again, JH, is great and I wouldn't disappointed in the least if we resign him.

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10 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

You didn't specify edge rusher in your original post. You said player.

The conversation was about Watt v Houston.  If I said player it was meant to be implied to the topic being discussed in the thread, sorry if I confused you.

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I think it comes down to price

 

Houston is still decent, but isnt a 12M DE anymore. 

 

I would like to have both Autry and Houston back next year, My bet its one or the other

 

However, 

 

We really cant expect to have the same DL as last year and expect better results this year.

 

I just have a hard time trusting that Turay can be counted upon to be healthy.

 

IMHO, if we are going to build on this team with 1 FA splash.... It would be DE

 

Or..... we go DE in round 1 (Paye MIGHT slip to us)

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3 hours ago, jskinnz said:


Bringing Autry and Houston back over Watt is a reasonable take.  Believing that Houston is aging better while not necessarily provable is also fairly reasonable. 
 

Saying JJ Watt is not a fit for the Colts’ defense is completely unreasonable. Watt’s skill set fits any defense. 

Well I said I don’t think he is a fit for this defense.  Maybe he would maybe he wouldn’t.  He has played on a 3-4 defense and would likely change positions in our defense. Thinking that isn’t a good fit is just as “unreasonable” as you saying he fits any defense is.  Both are assumptions that have logic behind them. So yeah. 

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38 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Well I said I don’t think he is a fit for this defense.  Maybe he would maybe he wouldn’t.  He has played on a 3-4 defense and would likely change positions in our defense. Thinking that isn’t a good fit is just as “unreasonable” as you saying he fits any defense is.  Both are assumptions that have logic behind them. So yeah. 


Negative but nice try. 
 

Justin Houston was a stand up OLB at KC but translated well to a 4-3 DE. And you want him back. 
 

The idea that JJ Watt is not a fit for the Colt defense is comical. He would be an early down DE and could move inside on 3rd down.  He fits all across the line. On any defense. On any team. There are different base defenses that he has been tied to. 

 

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2 hours ago, jskinnz said:


Negative but nice try. 
 

Justin Houston was a stand up OLB at KC but translated well to a 4-3 DE. And you want him back. 
 

The idea that JJ Watt is not a fit for the Colt defense is comical. He would be an early down DE and could move inside on 3rd down.  He fits all across the line. On any defense. On any team. There are different base defenses that he has been tied to. 

 

Ok

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Just now, jskinnz said:


In our discussion on Watt this is easily your best and most informed take. 

I don’t understand why you are being so combative but can you please stop?  We have differing opinions which is ok, I respect yours but not the way you are going about it.  Your jabs are not wanted, needed or appropriate.  

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19 hours ago, Stephen said:

I agree def need to find another strip sack master like freeney and mathis

IMO, to find that, realistically we'll have to draft it, and early. I don't see us paying for young elite DE given Buckner's contract already, and some of the other areas of need. We'll either go with solid vets or drafts. 

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13 hours ago, Rally5 said:

I like Houston, I'm very pleased if we re-sign him.  Watt is in a different league, there are questions certainly around age for both, durability for JJ and price.  If you pair Watt and Buckner that is a massive issue for offenses to contend with, especially on the right side.  We've learned if you want to win a Superbowl against an HP offense you have to do it with your front four, full stop.  Houston doesn't quite bring that level of juice in my opinion, Watt does.  As for lifting up teams your not part of, check with Manning and Brady, Watt has that type of lift in my opinion.  Look, I fully recognize it's a bit of a pipedream, where I thought Wentz was a sure thing before he was even pulled in Philly (that's when I got dismantled here by GM wannabe's) I don't think we'll sign Watt unless he wants to be here and he does a favorable deal.   There's simply too much we don't know, what I do know is a Watt/Buckner combo would be amongst the best we've ever seen.  I like that.  I think we've entered a window for this team, the beginning of a window where we're young, experienced enough and cap friendly,  I'd bring in a guy who has one goal, a perfect culture fit and first ballot HOF, yeah, I go for that juice.  Again, JH, is great and I wouldn't disappointed in the least if we resign him.

Manning and Brady, or I should say QB in general, is not a good comp. QB is a singular position which the entire O goes through, and is typically the face/leader of the team, and plays every snap. And then add on top of that PM and TB are 2 of the greatest ever and were able to play every game, all game.. And plugging them in to a team is very different than plugging in a guy who would be one of 4 on the DL, and likely playing only around 60% of snaps. 

 

Like I said, love to have him on a reasonable deal. I just don't see him being generous enough to make it work. I'd recommend looking at our ammo (2 early draft picks, 42ish M in cap), and solving for the holes we need to fill (2xDE, LT, WR1 and 4, CB1 and 4, MIKE, TE). 

 

I really do think most of the team will be put back together from last year. Rhodes will get a good raise, Autry and/or Houston likely, or at minimum one (similar $ to last year). TY is really the only one I don't envision being back. Perhaps Walker moves on too, but we'll need to fill that hole as Oke doesn't look to be the 3 down answer. Anyways, lot of high dollar holes, with decent, not great ammo. I'm hoping they go DE in the 1st, LT in the second. Back to the question above, how would you allocate the draft picks and $, while filling all the holes, and making it work with Watt.

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