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22 minutes ago, w87r said:

Nick Foles is $6.6m this year.

 

 

I think it would be every bit of $6-$8m, that is about the going rate for "top" backups.

 

 

I asked this question, because couple that woth Wentz $25.4m and you are at $31-$33m in those 2.

 

Then you take that from our current $43m(ish) cap space and we will have only $35-$37m left to fill out a roster that still ahs major holes.

 

 

I don't think it is feasible to bring Brissett back. I know you are not advocating that, but since you answered my question, I out it in this response.

Which is why I think our window is only cracked and not open this year.  We have some things to shake out yet, structurally.  Extend certain players, see what we have in Parris, make some decisions about our dart board 2nd round defensive players we have, figure out if Wentz can play (and then extend him at a lower cap hit).  Not to mention the cap itself.  Will it go up next year?

 

I don't think we can sort out these things this offseason.  Which is why I would not entertain the idea of cutting Eason at all. 

 

And JB is not a top backup.  So that's why the 3-4 mil seems right to me.

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2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Which is why I think our window is only cracked and not open this year.  We have some things to shake out yet, structurally.  Extend certain players, see what we have in Parris, make some decisions about our dart board 2nd round defensive players we have, figure out if Wentz can play (and then extend him at a lower cap hit)

 

I don't think we can sort out these things in one year.  Which is why I would not entertain the idea of cutting Eason at all. 

We're not going to get lower cap hits on Wentz by extending him.   His cap hits for indy are

 

2021.  25.4 million 

2022.   22 million

2023.   25 million

2024.    26 million

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It would not be smart to cut Eason until we know Wentz can play again at a high level and how well he fits with this team. I am ok bringing in someone to push Eason to earn that backup spot though.  But until we know for sure what Wentz has Eason needs to stay on the team.

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9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Two points...


I think the lower salary cap knocks that down some this year.    And I think Foles is better.  He was coming off his $22m per contract with J’Ville.   That helped him. 

That's fine and I agree on Foles, I simply corrected the amount Foles was making, I didn't bring him into the discussion.

 

Top backup QB salaries 2021 numbers

Mariota $10.7m

Foles $6.6m

Keenum $7.3m

Daniel $5.3m

Driscoll $3.25m

 

 

I think its safe to say that Brissett is probably considered a better backup/if not on same tier

as most of these guys.

 

I don't see any instance that Brissett signs for $3-$4m fo us, it would be more.

 

Backup QBs are important and I don't see it getting knocked down that much.

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10 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

We're not going to get lower cap hits on Wentz by extending him.   His cap hits for indy are

 

2021.  25.4 million 

2022.   22 million

2023.   25 million

2024.    26 million

I know.  I was thinking relative to the overall cap, what ever the cap is going to be after we decide that he's worthy of an extension.  Maybe we wont and the 26 mill will be a fair price.  

 

Players want cash, and IIRC, his already been paid a big portion of that $128m after this coming roster bonus and 2021 compensation.  He's not getting $22, $23, and $26 in his pocket from 2022 to 2024.  Half of that is simple amortization of bonus/guaranteed money he's already been paid, IIRC..

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I know.  I was thinking relative to the overall cap, what ever the cap is going to be after we decide that he's worthy of an extension.  Maybe we wont and the 26 mill will be a fair price.  

 

Players want cash, and IIRC, his already been paid a big portion of that $128m after this coming roster bonus and 2021 compensation.  He's not getting $22, $23, and $26 in his pocket from 2022 to 2024.

He is getting $15 of that $22m in 2022. It will guarantee on March 19th this year. We are not cutting him 2 days after trade goes through. The other 2 years are not guaranteed but will be paid out in his pocket if he is on the roster then. Those are not reflective of his bonuses that was paid by Philly.

 

It doesn't make sense to push any Wentz guaranteed money past 2022 at this point.

 

17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Which is why I think our window is only cracked and not open this year.  We have some things to shake out yet, structurally.  Extend certain players, see what we have in Parris, make some decisions about our dart board 2nd round defensive players we have, figure out if Wentz can play (and then extend him at a lower cap hit).  Not to mention the cap itself.  Will it go up next year?

 

I don't think we can sort out these things this offseason.  Which is why I would not entertain the idea of cutting Eason at all. 

 

And JB is not a top backup.  So that's why the 3-4 mil seems right to me.

I know you are not wanting to sign JB or cut Eason. Im with you on both accounts

 

Just listed that in my post response about Foles salary.

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18 minutes ago, w87r said:

He is getting $15 of that $22m in 2022. It will guarantee on March 19th this year. We are not cutting him 2 days after trade goes through. The other 2 years are not guaranteed but will be paid out in his pocket if he is on the roster then. Those are not reflective of his bonuses that was paid by Philly.

 

It doesn't make sense to push any Wentz guaranteed money past 2022 at this point.

 

 

I was thinking his actual cash compensation for the remaining years is in the $15-$17M per year range.  Maybe not.

 

I think the way this works is that Philly got hit with the big dead cap hit, which essentially reflects the amount of cash already paid to him that they previously spread out but now have to account for.  We get the actual cash outlay liability, but can restructure that into a new extension and push that out, as well as new money that gives him his normal $22m per year.  Maybe I'm overthinking this.

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22 minutes ago, w87r said:

That's fine and I agree on Foles, I simply corrected the amount Foles was making, I didn't bring him into the discussion.

 

Top backup QB salaries 2021 numbers

Mariota $10.7m

Foles $6.6m

Keenum $7.3m

Daniel $5.3m

Driscoll $3.25m

 

 

I think its safe to say that Brissett is probably considered a better backup/if not on same tier

as most of these guys.

 

I don't see any instance that Brissett signs for $3-$4m fo us, it would be more.

 

Backup QBs are important and I don't see it getting knocked down that much.

Seeing all these other numbers, you’re probably right.  Good info.  But how much higher are you willing to go?   $5-6m?   I don’t think I’d go higher than that....

 

We did right by JB these last two years when we didn’t have to.   This year, with the reduced cap, I would think he could reciprocate a little....    just saying...  

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Just now, NewColtsFan said:

Seeing all these other numbers, you’re probably right.  Good info.  But how much higher are you willing to go?   $5-6m?   I don’t think I’d go higher than that....

 

We did right by JB these last two years when we didn’t have to.   This year, with the reduced cap, I would think he could reciprocate a little....    just saying...  

I wouldn't go any higher, if even that much myself.

 

Too many other holes to have to try and fill to sign him to that kind of money. Which was why I asked question in first place, because I suspected his money would be more than we should be offering.

 

 

I would agree that you would think he might reciprocate it back, but I doubt it.

 

I think you roll with Eason and Wentz, probably a vet minimum to push Eason?

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1 minute ago, w87r said:

I think you roll with Eason and Wentz, probably a vet minimum to push Eason?

I hope so.  But why wouldn't JB be a vet minimum guy?  Do you think he has value to another team as something other than a vet minimum guy?

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I hope so.  But why wouldn't JB be a vet minimum guy?  Do you think he has value to another team as something other than a vet minimum guy?

I do.

 

Heck, who knows he might end up starting in NE? Kidding, kinda, but I think JB will command way more than vet minimum around the league. $5-$8m is my guestimate.

 

The guy was 5-2 as starter to start 2019 with a 2-3 game stretch of MVP caliber play. 

 

A QB with starting experience is coveted around the league. Someone will want him to mentor their young guy.

 

If not Eagles, maybe Jets, even a few others.

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4 minutes ago, w87r said:

I do.

 

Heck, who knows he might end up starting in NE? Kidding, kinda, but I think JB will command way more than vet minimum around the league. $5-$8m is my guestimate.

 

The guy was 5-2 as starter to start 2019 with a 2-3 game stretch of MVP caliber play. 

 

A QB with starting experience is coveted around the league. Someone will want him to mentor their young guy.

 

If not Eagles, maybe Jets, even a few others.

Okay, I think I got us off the rails a little bit by comparing JB to Foles/Hasselbeck in terms of salary.

 

I want a backup who can win us a game in a season where one game might matter in a playoff hunt.  For us, that's probably JB.  But, I don't think JB has much value on the market, he is not a top backup in the NFL like Foles/Hasselbeck, so we should sign him for 3-4M. 

 

I hope that's clearer.

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17 minutes ago, w87r said:

I wouldn't go any higher, if even that much myself.

 

Too many other holes to have to try and fill to sign him to that kind of money. Which was why I asked question in first place, because I suspected his money would be more than we should be offering.

 

 

I would agree that you would think he might reciprocate it back, but I doubt it.

 

I think you roll with Eason and Wentz, probably a vet minimum to push Eason?


Is there such a thing as a Vet Minimum at QB?    (Asking for a friend!).    :peek:

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7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Okay, I think I got us off the rails a little bit by comparing JB to Foles/Hasselbeck in terms of salary.

 

I want a backup who can win us a game in a season where one game might matter in a playoff hunt.  For us, that's probably JB.  But, I don't think JB has much value on the market, he is not a top backup in the NFL like Foles/Hasselbeck, so we should sign him for 3-4M. 

 

I hope that's clearer.

Definitely not Jalen Morton, I think he is a practice QB at best and was signed for that. Since we arent sure if Eason would be ready a vet should be brought in cheap in case  Wentz goes down...Id love to have Kyle Allen, Nick Mullens, C.J. Beathard type and all can be had quite inexpensively... 

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6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Okay, I think I got us off the rails a little bit by comparing JB to Foles/Hasselbeck in terms of salary.

 

I want a backup who can win us a game in a season where one game might matter in a playoff hunt.  For us, that's probably JB.  But, I don't think JB has much value on the market, he is not a top backup in the NFL like Foles/Hasselbeck, so we should sign him for 3-4M. 

 

I hope that's clearer.

I agree, if there is a backup to win us a game, I feel comfortable with JB.

 

However I just don't feel like that is a luxury we can have this year with so many other needs.

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:


Is there such a thing as a Vet Minimum at QB?    (Asking for a friend!).    :peek:

I mean, there is a vet minimum for every player. I get your point though. After those first few I listed(high salary backups), most others are in the $1-2m range. Which is almost not worth even having.

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21 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Just to * off 80% of the forum, Jacoby haha 

With an oft-injured guy like Wentz as the starter, I'd like to have a backup who can start a few games and play at .500 ball.  you could do a lot worse than Brissett in that role if he doesn't find a starting gig

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19 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

brissett is the best choice

if we focus on the question of having the best possible backup, then yes, Brissett is the best choice, especially if Fitzpatrick lines up a starting/platoon gig for himself.

 

If you focus on the broader picture Brisett is a bit pricey, even if he loses some salary from last year due to being the backup last year he's gonna get millions.  It's something to think about if this is a go-for-it year and it's time to push the cap a bit.

 

One thing to consider is that Wentz had an absolutely execrable year last year.  Hopefully he rebounds but we do need a solid Plan B in case he gets hurt or continues sucking.  Basically the same reason we didn't trade Brissett last year with Old Man Rivers under center.  The cost savings weren't worth the risk.  And Wentz is a lot more fragile than Rivers was.

 

with that said, he's a UFA, and there are other teams in need of QBs, up to and including Brissett's old team the Patriots which IIRC have neither a starting QB nor a backup they particularly trust.  I could easily see Brissett going back to New England as a cost-controlled 3 year contract in order to draft, develop and ease in some guy they like in the draft.

 

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21 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Just to * off 80% of the forum, Jacoby haha 

I think some people took this post wrong because I like JB. I was basically mocking the people that bash him and say he sucks and that is a lot of the forum unfortunately. I would love to have him as a backup for cheap. Some in here act like he is Curtis Painter, ridiculous. 

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Ok this may not he popular but here goes:  I think it wise not to overlook the importance of having a high profile African American player in the qb room.

 

Like it or not, representative leadership is very important in the modern NFL.  

Jacoby is, has been, and will continue to be, important to the colts locker room.

 

He's a high character guy, a positive advocate for change, he's well respected internally, he gives back to the community, and he's capable of winning football games.

 

Having that representation and ability, at the highest profile position in sports, even in a backup role, is so important.

 

I believe that in the tumultuous year we've all just lived through, Jacoby was a stabilizing force for the colts.  A huge, character driven, one. The Dude is genuine.

 

He's earned the respect and love the club shows him publicly.   I dont believe it's strictly "coach speak" when it comes to Jacoby.

 

His limitations as a franchise QB are well documented and cannot be denied, but his value is understated and underappreciated outside of the organization.  He makes the team better.

 

Personally, I'd like to see him stay provided he doesn't get a better opportunity elsewhere (which I hope, for his sake, he does).

 

I like Eason too. If hes not ready though, we could do MUCH worse than keeping JB at #2.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think some people took this post wrong because I like JB. I was basically mocking the people that bash him and say he sucks and that is a lot of the forum unfortunately. I would love to have him as a backup for cheap. Some in here act like he is Curtis Painter, ridiculous. 

You knew it would rile people up.

 

I wouldn't mind having him back, but I think it will be to much money and not a luxury we can realistically afford with all our holes.

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I can see him starting in New England.

Yeah, I posted that a few post back, partly kidding, but I could see it happen in actuality.

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18 minutes ago, w87r said:

You knew it would rile people up.

 

I wouldn't mind having him back, but I think it will be to much money and not a luxury we can realistically afford with all our holes.

I agree with this 100% JB is a solid QB with wheels. The issue is going to be his market value, even in a backup role. I mentioned this earlier, but this would be a good year to grab a guy like McCoy at a low price to hold the clipboard and manage games for you in an emergency since you're into Wentz for 4 years regardless and the rest of the team is solid, save for a couple of holes that should be the main priority in FA and the draft. I'd be more inclined to spend more on a solid veteran LT than a backup QB.

 

The other thing is, Wentz wasn't hurt last year, he was benched. I feel like the guy is being scapegoated. What did they have on that team? A decent tight end room maybe, but that's about it. Jeffery hasn't played a full season since 2017 and they don't have much of a ground game. The two QBs accounted for over 600 of their rushing yards last year, which outside of that puts that offense near the basement in production considering those were mainly yards picked up scrambling. They also moved the ancient Peters to guard and Wentz was sacked 50 times in 12 games. You give this guy protection and some good weapons and I think you'll see a totally different QB in 2021.

Bringing Foles in makes no sense to me whatsoever.  You'd have to trade for him for one, and if Wentz does perform well, you're eating $8M in cap for a guy to ride the pine plus whatever else you got roped into on a trade. On top of that, what kind of message are you sending by acquiring the guy who replaced him on their Super Bowl run in 2017? That would just make the QB room toxic and defeat the entire purpose of giving Wentz a fresh start.

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4 minutes ago, JoeThornburg said:

I agree with this 100% JB is a solid QB with wheels. The issue is going to be his market value, even in a backup role. I mentioned this earlier, but this would be a good year to grab a guy like McCoy at a low price to hold the clipboard and manage games for you in an emergency since you're into Wentz for 4 years regardless and the rest of the team is solid, save for a couple of holes that should be the main priority in FA and the draft. I'd be more inclined to spend more on a solid veteran LT than a backup QB.

 

The other thing is, Wentz wasn't hurt last year, he was benched. I feel like the guy is being scapegoated. What did they have on that team? A decent tight end room maybe, but that's about it. Jeffery hasn't played a full season since 2017 and they don't have much of a ground game. The two QBs accounted for over 600 of their rushing yards last year, which outside of that puts that offense near the basement in production considering those were mainly yards picked up scrambling. They also moved the ancient Peters to guard and Wentz was sacked 50 times in 12 games. You give this guy protection and some good weapons and I think you'll see a totally different QB in 2021.

Bringing Foles in makes no sense to me whatsoever.  You'd have to trade for him for one, and if Wentz does perform well, you're eating $8M in cap for a guy to ride the pine plus whatever else you got roped into on a trade. On top of that, what kind of message are you sending by acquiring the guy who replaced him on their Super Bowl run in 2017? That would just make the QB room toxic and defeat the entire purpose of giving Wentz a fresh start.

I don't think we are on a 4yr commitment to Wentz. Definitely a 2yr commitment as $15m of $22m in 2022 salary guarantees 2 days after the trade becomes official. Although I'm sure we could move him for something next year for something if he just comes in a lays an egg.

 

 

There was talk about Foles coming in,  but that was before Wentz deal. I don't think anyone here was saying to bring him in now, he was just mentioned in regards to high priced backups and how much it might take.

 

 

I still can't believe the Eagles erected a statue of Foles. Didn't know that till earlier this week. :facepalm:

 

I couldn't imagine anything more toxic than us bringing him in with Wentz here. We might be challenging Texans with toxicity.

 

 

I wasn't wanting Wentz, but I am a fan now that he is here. Hopefully he makes this deal look like a steal.

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It will be Eason. The Colts just traded for Wentz with a large contract attached to him. They are not going to pay $8 - 10 -12 million for a backup QB. Eason is on a rookie contract and Ballard will save the $49 million of cap money left for other positions. 

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11 minutes ago, w87r said:

I still can't believe the Eagles erected a statue of Foles. Didn't know that till earlier this week. :facepalm:

 

I couldn't imagine anything more toxic than us bringing him in with Wentz here. We might be challenging Texans with toxicity.

 

 

I wasn't wanting Wentz, but I am a fan now that he is here. Hopefully he makes this deal look like a steal.

And people wonder why Wentz wanted out of there. Like he got no credit at all for his play in 2017. 10-1 before the injury, which resulted in a loss that day. Granted the team around him was much better also and it's not like Foles didn't benefit from that situation either. 

But yeah they did a really good job with this deal. The only thing that scared me about it was the possibility of giving up too much. As it stands right now I feel like there is no question that he knows he's the man in Indianapolis. But, I also think it would benefit Wentz to have a more seasoned veteran in the QB room with him. A guy like McCoy won't cost but $2-$3M and is accustomed to such a role. He also wouldn't pose any real threat to supplant him as the starter. With the other young guys potentially competing for a backup role as well it might be prudent and wouldn't be an over commitment of cash.

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On 2/21/2021 at 11:57 AM, DougDew said:

Which is why I think our window is only cracked and not open this year.  We have some things to shake out yet, structurally.  Extend certain players, see what we have in Parris, make some decisions about our dart board 2nd round defensive players we have, figure out if Wentz can play (and then extend him at a lower cap hit).  Not to mention the cap itself.  Will it go up next year?

 

I don't think we can sort out these things this offseason.  Which is why I would not entertain the idea of cutting Eason at all. 

 

And JB is not a top backup.  So that's why the 3-4 mil seems right to me.

this is basically why I brought up McCoy on the 1st page of this thread: he turns 35 in September (so he's no real threat to Wentz like Hurts apparently was) and his most recent contract paid him $2.25 Mil

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On 2/21/2021 at 11:57 AM, DougDew said:

Which is why I think our window is only cracked and not open this year.  We have some things to shake out yet, structurally.  Extend certain players, see what we have in Parris, make some decisions about our dart board 2nd round defensive players we have, figure out if Wentz can play (and then extend him at a lower cap hit).  Not to mention the cap itself.  Will it go up next year?

 

I don't think we can sort out these things this offseason.  Which is why I would not entertain the idea of cutting Eason at all. 

 

And JB is not a top backup.  So that's why the 3-4 mil seems right to me.

I think JB is viewed as the top backup in the NFL. He is not going to take 3-4 million and that will not be offered.

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On 2/21/2021 at 5:03 PM, JoeThornburg said:

I agree with this 100% JB is a solid QB with wheels. The issue is going to be his market value, even in a backup role. I mentioned this earlier, but this would be a good year to grab a guy like McCoy at a low price to hold the clipboard and manage games for you in an emergency since you're into Wentz for 4 years regardless and the rest of the team is solid, save for a couple of holes that should be the main priority in FA and the draft. I'd be more inclined to spend more on a solid veteran LT than a backup QB.

 

The other thing is, Wentz wasn't hurt last year, he was benched. I feel like the guy is being scapegoated. What did they have on that team? A decent tight end room maybe, but that's about it. Jeffery hasn't played a full season since 2017 and they don't have much of a ground game. The two QBs accounted for over 600 of their rushing yards last year, which outside of that puts that offense near the basement in production considering those were mainly yards picked up scrambling. They also moved the ancient Peters to guard and Wentz was sacked 50 times in 12 games. You give this guy protection and some good weapons and I think you'll see a totally different QB in 2021.

Bringing Foles in makes no sense to me whatsoever.  You'd have to trade for him for one, and if Wentz does perform well, you're eating $8M in cap for a guy to ride the pine plus whatever else you got roped into on a trade. On top of that, what kind of message are you sending by acquiring the guy who replaced him on their Super Bowl run in 2017? That would just make the QB room toxic and defeat the entire purpose of giving Wentz a fresh start.

 

Yeah...it would never happen.

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On 2/21/2021 at 3:19 PM, Bert Johns said:

It will be Eason. The Colts just traded for Wentz with a large contract attached to him. They are not going to pay $8 - 10 -12 million for a backup QB. Eason is on a rookie contract and Ballard will save the $49 million of cap money left for other positions. 

All of that when he is getting a frail often injured QB? That would be a great way to get fired. Ask Pollian and the coaches after Curtis Painter.

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On 2/21/2021 at 12:32 PM, Lancer1 said:

You're right about Brissett sticking around the NFL for awhile if he's willing & competent as a backup - look how long Warren Moon played and guys like Testaverde, Cassell and even Fitzpatrick have always been able to find work. 

 

I think he probably goes somewhere with a shaky starter or a rookie to groom, giving him better odds of playing a lot. Philadelphia quickly comes to mind (and I'm sure Sirianni would love to have him as insurance) but unfortunately I could see Houston or Jacksonville kicking his tires as well.

I think plenty of teams will kick the tires, just not big, or starting offers. A lot can happen, and a lot will, in terms of QB, so perhaps there's a perfect storm for him. Not sure I've ever seen this much QB noise and movement. 

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On 2/20/2021 at 6:45 PM, WoolMagnet said:

I never liked “package” or gimmicky QBs.  JB on 4th & 1 was fine, but i think it affects the flow.

  I like Tyrod, but i think it makes more sense to have a backup with similar style to the starter.  If thats Tyrod, then fine.  But no “special play” QB that will just give Reich too many distractions.  He gets a little off-track as it is at times.

  We have a solid team, no reason for packages or trick plays.

Brissett ran 17 plays for 9 first downs and 3 TDs. 

I'd not call those stats gimmicky by no means. 

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