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JT 4th Fastest.... !!


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According to PFT, our own Jonathan Taylor had the fourth fastest ball carrier moment in 2020. Although it doesn't state who it was against, JT clocked in at 22.05 miles an hour just ahead of Tyreek Hill at 21.91... WOW

 

Didn't realize this kid had those kind of wheels...

 

Mostert was 1 and 2 and Kenyan Drake was third

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He was semi regular on the weekly list of fastest plays on nextgen.

 

Those that think JT won't be a good pass catcher may be surprised next year. The guy is going to get some YACatch as well as YAContact

 

Hines also made was on nextgen's list too, just not as often IIRC. We have two dynamic guys.

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13 hours ago, EastStreet said:

He was semi regular on the weekly list of fastest plays on nextgen.

 

Those that think JT won't be a good pass catcher may be surprised next year. The guy is going to get some YACatch as well as YAContact

 

Hines also made was on nextgen's list too, just not as often IIRC. We have two dynamic guys.


They’re going to be such an explosive duo next year. I can’t wait to see them. Hines was excellent last year. I hope he gets a 1k all purpose yard season.

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Wait!  Wut?!? 
 

THAT was JT’s “fastest run” ?!?    NFW!!
 

It wasn't his long TD run against the Raiders?

Come on, get serious.   Yeah, no! 
 

Someone at NFL Films, which out this together, made a mistake.   A basic time code error.   Heck, I’d guess JT’s long TD run vs J’Ville in the last game of the regular season was also faster than the run they showed.   
 

Basic.   Human.   Error!    

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7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Wait!  Wut?!? 
 

THAT was JT’s “fastest run” ?!?    NFW!!
 

It wasn't his long TD run against the Raiders?

Come on, get serious.   Yeah, no! 
 

Someone at NFL Films, which out this together, made a mistake.   A basic time code error.   Heck, I’d guess JT’s long TD run vs J’Ville in the last game of the regular season was also faster than the run they showed.   
 

Basic.   Human.   Error!    

I don't think there is any error.   They have yard markers and the time it took to cross those yard markers.    They did the video research.   

 

I don't think Next Gen sports were wrong. 

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/fastest-player-nfl-2020-tyreek-hill-raheem-mostert-lamar-jackson/1o8jxrn0enj3i1l3y3ntxtsh9n

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4 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

I don't think there is any error.   They have yard markers and the time it took to cross those yard markers.    They did the video research.   

 

I don't think Next Gen sports were wrong. 

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/fastest-player-nfl-2020-tyreek-hill-raheem-mostert-lamar-jackson/1o8jxrn0enj3i1l3y3ntxtsh9n

 

JV......

 

Somebody has made a mistake somewhere in the process.

 

There are a number of ways you can tell this is a mistake....

 

First,  look at the other four plays.   They're roughly 50-80 yards.   The players are all sprinting.   They're all either sprinting to the end zone with the ball,  or they're sprinting to catch the ball.    They're not worried about being hit by defenders.

 

Second,  look at Taylor.   He's not sprinting.   He's running.  And there's a difference.   The run is 29 yards from the time he gets the ball, and during that time,  not only is he not sprinting,  he's gauging to see which defenders have the angle on him?  Who might hit him?   Should he run out of bounds or where he is going to fall when he gets hit?    Sprinting is the last thing he's doing.   He's a running back figuring out possible contact.

 

Third...    look at Taylor's two long TD runs...   the one against the Raiders,  the one against J'Ville.   In those two runs,  Taylor is sprinting....   away from defenders and toward the end zone.   He's not worried about dodging defenders or about to be tackled.    Nothing but sprinting.

 

The info the Sporting News put out came from the NFL.    Somewhere in the process,  someone made a mistake.  

 

I appreciate you're going to disagree.    I'm just explaining my position.

 

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7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

JV......

 

Somebody has made a mistake somewhere in the process.

 

There are a number of ways you can tell this is a mistake....

 

First,  look at the other four plays.   They're roughly 50-80 yards.   The players are all sprinting.   They're all either sprinting to the end zone with the ball,  or they're sprinting to catch the ball.    They're not worried about being hit by defenders.

 

Second,  look at Taylor.   He's not sprinting.   He's running.  And there's a difference.   The run is 29 yards from the time he gets the ball, and during that time,  not only is he not sprinting,  he's gauging to see which defenders have the angle on him?  Who might hit him?   Should he run out of bounds or where he is going to fall when he gets hit?    Sprinting is the last thing he's doing.   He's a running back figuring out possible contact.

 

Third...    look at Taylor's two long TD runs...   the one against the Raiders,  the one against J'Ville.   In those two runs,  Taylor is sprinting....   away from defenders and toward the end zone.   He's not worried about dodging defenders or about to be tackled.    Nothing but sprinting.

 

The info the Sporting News put out came from the NFL.    Somewhere in the process,  someone made a mistake.  

 

I appreciate you're going to disagree.    I'm just explaining my position.

 

The speeds are legit, measured speeds.

 

"NFL player tracking, also known as Next Gen Stats, is the capture of real-time location data, speed and acceleration for every player, every play on every inch of the field. Sensors throughout the stadium track tags placed on players' shoulder pads, charting individual movements within inches. Data is captured using RFID tags in player equipment and the football itself. Real-time data is then transmitted to receivers installed in NFL stadiums, which provides the NFL with data on every player for every play."

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On 2/21/2021 at 9:44 AM, Colt Overseas said:

They’re going to be such an explosive duo next year. I can’t wait to see them. Hines was excellent last year. I hope he gets a 1k all purpose yard season.

Yup, I've been a huge fan of Hines since we got him. His rook year was near record breaking on the receiving side of things. Both guys have a lot of "dynamic" potential. I'd like to see Hines more in the passing game though. I'd really like to see him line up in the slot, or even in motion more like the Z. And I was very surprised how good JT looked in the passing game too given he wasn't used a lot at Wiscy like that. If we go more RPO / PA, that will help too. I do hope they re-sign Mack (assuming he's recovered) on a cheap deal, and if not, hope they find a big short yardage guy.

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10 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

The speeds are legit, measured speeds.

 

"NFL player tracking, also known as Next Gen Stats, is the capture of real-time location data, speed and acceleration for every player, every play on every inch of the field. Sensors throughout the stadium track tags placed on players' shoulder pads, charting individual movements within inches. Data is captured using RFID tags in player equipment and the football itself. Real-time data is then transmitted to receivers installed in NFL stadiums, which provides the NFL with data on every player for every play."

I have no doubt that JT was tracked at that speed on one of his runs.   I only doubt it was THIS particular run.  
 

I’m quite confident human error happened somewhere in the process.    I used to work with editors and video tape.  Human error can happen.  

 

Plus it completely FAILS the eye ball test.   JT doesn’t even look fast on this run.  Not even close. 

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On 2/20/2021 at 7:36 PM, EastStreet said:

He was semi regular on the weekly list of fastest plays on nextgen.

 

Those that think JT won't be a good pass catcher may be surprised next year. The guy is going to get some YACatch as well as YAContact

 

Hines also made was on nextgen's list too, just not as often IIRC. We have two dynamic guys.

 

Kinda shocked one of I. Rodgers' long kickoff returns wasn't up there...

On 2/21/2021 at 6:58 PM, jvan1973 said:

I don't think there is any error.   They have yard markers and the time it took to cross those yard markers.    They did the video research.   

 

I don't think Next Gen sports were wrong. 

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/fastest-player-nfl-2020-tyreek-hill-raheem-mostert-lamar-jackson/1o8jxrn0enj3i1l3y3ntxtsh9n

 

I think there could be error in there, because if they're just going on crossing yard markers, one who is running linearly (i.e., parallel to the sidelines and perpendicular to the yard markers)  should be going faster than a guy running on an angle (sure there are ways to calculate this, but typically one who is not running straight ahead on a FB field is probably just getting out of a cut, in the process of making a longer turn, or potentially looking to make a cut).

 

Also, if the speed is based on sensors placed on shoulder pads, I imagine those sensors become uncalibrated a few times per game from jarring hits.

 

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12 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

The speeds are legit, measured speeds.

 

"NFL player tracking, also known as Next Gen Stats, is the capture of real-time location data, speed and acceleration for every player, every play on every inch of the field. Sensors throughout the stadium track tags placed on players' shoulder pads, charting individual movements within inches. Data is captured using RFID tags in player equipment and the football itself. Real-time data is then transmitted to receivers installed in NFL stadiums, which provides the NFL with data on every player for every play."

Yup. It's pretty exciting to hear some of the things about NG as it relates to stats. I've read things here and there and with all the sensors and technology, it simply takes a lot of the human error and subjectivity out of it. They can easily track all the speeds, routes, separation, cushion, etc.. I like their distance from the QB they do for DL/pass rushers. It's pretty incredible IMHO. I expect a whole lot more from them over the next few years. They're going to make it very hard for all the other stats sites to compete, at least on the advanced stuff.

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3 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Kinda shocked one of I. Rodgers' long kickoff returns wasn't up there...

 

I think there could be error in there, because if they're just going on crossing yard markers, one who is running linearly (i.e., parallel to the sidelines and perpendicular to the yard markers)  should be going faster than a guy running on an angle (sure there are ways to calculate this, but typically one who is not running straight ahead on a FB field is probably just getting out of a cut, in the process of making a longer turn, or potentially looking to make a cut).

 

Also, if the speed is based on sensors placed on shoulder pads, I imagine those sensors become uncalibrated a few times per game from jarring hits.

 

I really though Rodgers made a list at least one of the weeks. Could be wrong.

 

IIRC, NG can triangulate, so it's not just about crossing a certain line. All you need are 3 points, and I'm sure they have more than 3. Given they track all routes already, measure sep and cushion, I really doubt they are limited on something that should be pretty simple all things considered.

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3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I really though Rodgers made a list at least one of the weeks. Could be wrong.

 

IIRC, NG can triangulate, so it's not just about crossing a certain line. All you need are 3 points, and I'm sure they have more than 3. Given they track all routes already, measure sep and cushion, I really doubt they are limited on something that should be pretty simple all things considered.

 

There can still be errors with triangulation.  Like you said, the more points the better... and I'm not sure how many they have in a given stadium or on each player... but as they say they are within inches.. there's a lot of inches in a mile, and a lot of seconds in an hour.  We're typically talking about players moving 4-10 seconds within the whistle and moving way less than a mile every play.  Even if they were 95% accurate in their measurements, somebody they estimate going 20 mph would have have a full +/- 1 mph at any point in time... 19 mph and 21 mph is a lot different (and I doubt it is that accurate all the time, given the fact that every sensor most definitely not recalibrated after every play).

 

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Just now, CurBeatElite said:

 

There can still be errors with triangulation.  Like you said, the more points the better... and I'm not sure how many they have in a given stadium or on each player... but as they say they are within inches.. there's a lot of inches in a mile, and a lot of seconds in an hour.  We're typically talking about players moving 4-10 seconds within the whistle and moving way less than a mile every play.  Even if they were 95% accurate in their measurements, somebody they estimate going 20 mph would have have a full +/- 1

mph at any point in time... 19 mph and 21 mph is a lot different (and I doubt it is that accurate all the time, given the fact that every sensor most definitely not recalibrated after every play).

 

The have RFID tags on the ball, and on every player. They have wideband receivers all over every field that track the ball down to the inch.

 

The technology these days is impressive, and really not error prone. Can it happen, sure, but given the NFL/AWS and in general sub tech providers, are spending billions on it, I'm going to assume they have the best and likely bleeding edge (even better than cutting edge).

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17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

The have RFID tags on the ball, and on every player. They have wideband receivers all over every field that track the ball down to the inch.

 

The technology these days is impressive, and really not error prone. Can it happen, sure, but given the NFL/AWS and in general sub tech providers, are spending billions on it, I'm going to assume they have the best and likely bleeding edge (even better than cutting edge).

 

Down to the 'inch' -- they're giving 'miles' per hour estimates.  Say they're 99% accurate, a guy they estimate is running 22 mph still has a +/- .13 mph around him.  That means he could be running 21.78 or 22.13 mph within 99% confidence window - still a big difference.

 

Though the RFID Journal suggests estimate maybe a 3 meter accuracy in a large area (https://www.rfidjournal.com/question/what-is-the-location-accuracy-of-an-rfid-system#:~:text=Active RFID-based RTLSs have,signal and pinpoint its location.&text=You can cover a large,is usually within 3 meters). 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you that this is very cutting/bleeding edge technology.  It still isn't without flaw.  There are also a ton of signals coming through NFL stadiums, which I assume mess up some radio frequency (the amount of cameras, cell phones, radios from coaches on the field to players' helmets and the booths, the amount of times these RFID tags get hit and how hard an often they get hit, the amount of noise in stadiums especially in non-covid years, the amount of cell phones other tags moving, etc.).  

 

It's all cool technology.  Not debating that.  It's probably better than in the past, but I highly doubt it's consistently better than 99% accurate, I'd guess lower than that... even so, when they are saying they are within inches (they didn't say sub-cm or sub-mm), and they're giving us a miles per hour estimate of what they think is happening, my guess is there is a pretty decent room for error.

 

And because they're spending billions, doesn't mean they're perfect.  AWS is owned by Amazon, which is more than a billion dollar company.  They're producing commercials at every game, the amount of interest in 'sport science', etc. is rapidly growing.  The graphs/charts/animations, etc. they can produce is mind-boggling.  There is a LOT of value in all that even if they're not totally accurate.

 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Down to the 'inch' -- they're giving 'miles' per hour estimates.  Say they're 99% accurate, a guy they estimate is running 22 mph still has a +/- .13 mph around him.  That means he could be running 21.78 or 22.13 mph within 99% confidence window - still a big difference.

 

Though the RFID Journal suggests estimate maybe a 3 meter accuracy in a large area (https://www.rfidjournal.com/question/what-is-the-location-accuracy-of-an-rfid-system#:~:text=Active RFID-based RTLSs have,signal and pinpoint its location.&text=You can cover a large,is usually within 3 meters). 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you that this is very cutting/bleeding edge technology.  It still isn't without flaw.  There are also a ton of signals coming through NFL stadiums, which I assume mess up some radio frequency (the amount of cameras, cell phones, radios from coaches on the field to players' helmets and the booths, the amount of times these RFID tags get hit and how hard an often they get hit, the amount of noise in stadiums especially in non-covid years, the amount of cell phones other tags moving, etc.).  

 

It's all cool technology.  Not debating that.  It's probably better than in the past, but I highly doubt it's consistently better than 99% accurate, I'd guess lower than that... even so, when they are saying they are within inches (they didn't say sub-cm or sub-mm), and they're giving us a miles per hour estimate of what they think is happening, my guess is there is a pretty decent room for error.

I've been in tech space since the 90s and have 15+ years specifically delivery of wifi, raido, cell, gps, and other signal techs, as well as RFID (mostly access, asset tracking, etc.). I'm not a geek/pro on any of it. More management, but I have done a ton of solutioning in the past, and managed plenty of engineering, SS, and delivery groups. 

 

On the NFL specifically, I wouldn't worry too much about interference. I'm sure whatever spectrum competing techs (like wifi) are managed appropriately (channels, gear placement). Most issues come within the RFID range, like reader to reader, tag to tag. etc. Other techs don't impact a lot. And I'm sure the NFL is using the best equipment, as well as the best brains to manage all of it.

 

On JT specifically, he's been on the list several times, so while I can perhaps second guess it once, the likelihood of several false positives are pretty low. So in short, perfect, probably not. Error prone, nope. I'd expect high 90s in terms of percentile. 

 

On a personal note, I managed a company that bid Wifi and 4G for a major NFL stadium. We walked away because the the gov requs were getting ridiculous, but I can tell you the tech requirements (around spectrum, equipment, interference, and general management) were off the hook, and that was 7ish years ago before all of this. I'm sure it's turned up to 11 now.

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2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I've been in tech space since the 90s and have 15+ years specifically delivery of wifi, raido, cell, gps, and other signal techs, as well as RFID (mostly access, asset tracking, etc.). I'm not a geek/pro on any of it. More management, but I have done a ton of solutioning in the past, and managed plenty of engineering, SS, and delivery groups. 

 

On the NFL specifically, I wouldn't worry too much about interference. I'm sure whatever spectrum competing techs (like wifi) are managed appropriately (channels, gear placement). Most issues come within the RFID range, like reader to reader, tag to tag. etc. Other techs don't impact a lot. And I'm sure the NFL is using the best equipment, as well as the best brains to manage all of it.

 

On JT specifically, he's been on the list several times, so while I can perhaps second guess it once, the likelihood of several false positives are pretty low. So in short, perfect, probably not. Error prone, nope. I'd expect high 90s in terms of percentile. 

 

On a personal note, I managed a company that bid Wifi and 4G for a major NFL stadium. We walked away because the the gov requs were getting ridiculous, but I can tell you the tech requirements (around spectrum, equipment, interference, and general management) were off the hook, and that was 7ish years ago before all of this. I'm sure it's turned up to 11 now.

 

I work a bit similar stuff (more on the science than the mgmt end).  Not to the same scale, but see nothing is ever perfect.

 

I'm not doubting JT's one of the fastest guys in the league - his 40 time suggests that.  I do, however, have a bit of a hard time believing the specific run shown in the Twitter post is actually the fastest he ever got this season.

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3 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

I think JT will even better this year since he'll be back to normal (QB under center) and not running shotgun so much. 

 

He should also have a fairly normal offseason and other than whatever we do to replace AC at LT, should be pretty familiar with our OL starting game 1 this coming season.

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