Are you happy with the Wentz acquisition?

[jvan1973]

18 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

That is an amazing statement. Wentz only got to 30 TDs once and that was several years ago. I would take the under 30 if I was betting on it. He is frail and has lost many games to injuries. I hope he works out but I would think if he was healthy I would expect 3,000 passing yards and 21 to 25 TDs. He isn't throwing to a great set of receivers.

Why don't we let free agency play out

[Thebrashandthebold]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Why don't we let free agency play out

You think they are going to add very good free agent WRs? I don't. I think they will draft one in the second or fourth round. That won't get you a number one.

[jvan1973]

12 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

You think they are going to add very good free agent WRs? I don't. I think they will draft one in the second or fourth round. That won't get you a number one.

I have no idea what Ballard's plans are.   I have a hard time believing he isn't going to give his new qb some weapons

[Thebrashandthebold]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I have no idea what Ballard's plans are.   I have a hard time believing he isn't going to give his new qb some weapons

Why would it be hard to believe that. He didn't give Rivers any new weapons to speak of. 

 

[w87r]

3 hours ago, coming on strong said:

bucs brought in tons of free agents with brady .  suh who is elite defesinve tackle  barrett who is elite edge rusher david who is elite linebacker   brown hall of fame wr    gronk  .   plus tons of good depth guys with wit plus adding high draft picks on offensive line with joe haeg

Suh, Barrett, David were already there.

 

 

 No one wanted Brown.

 

Gronk was retired and forced his way out of NE. 

 

Fournette was a cast off.

 

 

The last 3 mentioned are better examples of going all in, but it was more in a way about players characters than it was about money.

 

The first 3 though were already there,  not sure why they were mentioned at all? David hasn't ever even played anywhere else.

[jvan1973]

12 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

Why would it be hard to believe that. He didn't give Rivers any new weapons to speak of. 

 

Drafted Pittman and Thomas,  signed Burton. Already had TY, Doyle , Hines, Mack and Pascal and Campbell.   

 

Ty, Mack and Burton are free agents.     Weapons will be brought in

 

 

[Thebrashandthebold]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Drafted Pittman and Thomas,  signed Burton. Already had TY, Doyle , Hines and Campbell.   

 

 

None of them have shown much and TY is washed up. Doyle is fine but he isn't a WR. Hines and Campbell are so far not great WR. The Colts need a number one thousand yard receiver and they don't have one. 

[JoeThornburg]

On 2/20/2021 at 12:15 PM, shasta519 said:

First, after Luck retired, he emphatically stated that JB was the “man” and “answer.” You can chalk that up to confidence-building and it was a bad situation, but there is no way they give him that contract without Reich saying that he thinks JB could be the future. Blame the scenario...but Reich certainly had influence and certainly believed in JB (or he was just lying). 
 

Second, last offseason he chose Rivers. This was the right move at the time after the JB season...because they needed a vet upgrade to compete and take a step forward. So I don’t fault Reich for that...but it was known at the time that Rivers was likely a one-year thing (two at most) and then the only move they made was targeting Eason, who could wind up being a QB3 in his 2nd season. Ballard doesn’t draft Eason without Reich...so while the investment is small...it’s still another choice.

 

Third, he picks Wentz this offseason. At this point, the Colts are not in any type of situation that might “force” them to make this particular decision. This is all Reich...as there is no way Ballard would trade draft assets and take on that contract without a strong assurance from Reich that he can not only fix Wentz, but that the Colts can win big with him. 

 

And maybe they can. But if Wentz flops, the trade is basically a small disaster in that they gave away picks and paid Wentz. Someone has to answer for that...obviously. And letting go of a Press Taylor wouldn’t be a sufficient response. We also know that Ballard isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

OK hold the phone here. First of all you're talking about a team that was a recovered fumble and a last minute drive away from the AFC Championship game last year with a QB at the helm who just retired.

But the year Reich endorsed JB, Luck waited until right before the start of the regular season to announce his retirement. What the heck else was was the guy supposed to do? A mid-season trade where you're going to give up assets and expect a new starter to come in and learn an offense? I don't see how you can hold him accountable for plugging in a back up at that point. It was the only sensible move.

 

On top of that, you didn't have a first rounder in 2020 because it was used to acquire Buckner, who has been a major force. Who were you gonna get anyway? Jordan Love? Jalen Hurts? You got JT in that draft as well. You pick up a Hall of Fame QB as a stop gap on a one year deal. If you're going to hold the HC accountable for personnel decisions I think you're a bit off point here. You're not going to get anything in the draft this year at QB that says "can't miss".

 

This was absolutely the most logical move that could have been made this year. For what they gave up and the price point you got, to get a QB who has shown that he can play at an MVP level, who is coming into his prime, but ended up mired in a toxic waste dump of poor management and coaching decisions this has the potential to be an absolute home run. You have the resources to put weapons around this guy. This was the closest thing you could possibly have gotten to a "can't miss" scenario. 

[coming on strong]

30 minutes ago, w87r said:

Suh, Barrett, David were already there.

 

 

 No one wanted Brown.

 

Gronk was retired and forced his way out of NE. 

 

Fournette was a cast off.

 

 

The last 3 mentioned are better examples of going all in, but it was more in a way about players characters than it was about money.

 

The first 3 though were already there,  not sure why they were mentioned at all? David hasn't ever even played anywhere else.

suh signed a one year deal i included guys who resigned only because of brady .   the team only went all in because of brady they stacked up and francised barrett who wanted to get paid but did not sit out because of brady . same with peire paul .  without  brady those guys are not resigning with no QB most made it clear so i count them as signings because they were free agents in 2020

[TimetobringDfence!]

1 hour ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

You think they are going to add very good free agent WRs? I don't. I think they will draft one in the second or fourth round. That won't get you a number one.

I think we are more likely to go after a TE personally. We have Pittman, ZP, and I pray Campbell is ready.

[jvan1973]

30 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

None of them have shown much and TY is washed up. Doyle is fine but he isn't a WR. Hines and Campbell are so far not great WR. The Colts need a number one thousand yard receiver and they don't have one. 

You need weapons,   you don't need one guy going for big numbers.   3 800 yard guys and other contributors can also get it done.    The Patriots have proved that many times

[TimetobringDfence!]

19 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You need weapons,   you don't need one guy going for big numbers.   3 800 yard guys and other contributors can also get it done.    The Patriots have proved that many times

Hines is in my opinion one of the best receiving RBs in the league RN. He makes catches that are impressive for recievers let alone RBs. Maybe you meant Harris and Campbell. Ballard spoke very highly of Campbell, I hope he comes back strong this year.

[jvan1973]

18 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Hines is in my opinion one of the best receiving RBs in the league RN. He makes catches that are impressive for recievers let alone RBs. Maybe you meant Harris and Campbell. Ballard spoke very highly of Campbell, I hope he comes back strong this year.

No,   I meant Hines.    He is a weapon no question.   A healthy Campbell is also a weapon 

[JoeThornburg]

9 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Hines is in my opinion one of the best receiving RBs in the league RN. He makes catches that are impressive for recievers let alone RBs. Maybe you meant Harris and Campbell. Ballard spoke very highly of Campbell, I hope he comes back strong this year.

Agree with you on Hines. That's another reason why I'm sketchy on changing it up too much at TE. Doyle is still serviceable. If you have a can opener on the outside for the homerun ball with experience it makes more sense for the WR corps. It just makes it easier to open up passing lanes underneath, especially with JT pounding the rock like old John Henry.

[TimetobringDfence!]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

No,   I meant Hines.    He is a weapon no question.   A healthy Campbell is also a weapon 

My bad it was a post you quoted not yours I was referring to.

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

Why would it be hard to believe that. He didn't give Rivers any new weapons to speak of. 

 

He drafted Pittman  and taylor, and signed burton. Guess he figured  Campbell  would stay healthy 

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, JoeThornburg said:

Agree with you on Hines. That's another reason why I'm sketchy on changing it up too much at TE. Doyle is still serviceable. If you have a can opener on the outside for the homerun ball with experience it makes more sense for the WR corps. It just makes it easier to open up passing lanes underneath, especially with JT pounding the rock like old John Henry.

Doyle always seems  to have a fumble  play each year

[JoeThornburg]

1 minute ago, Stephen said:

Doyle always seems  to have a fumble  play each year

Yes. Not a guy you can ask to do too much, especially if defenses can cheat and crowd the middle but that is a fair point.

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I think we are more likely to go after a TE personally. We have Pittman, ZP, and I pray Campbell is ready.

Im not counting  on Campbell.  I'd sign a free agent wr and draft one in the second that can contribute  right away

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I hope we hear Wentz is working with Tom House this offseason. There was a tweet how this needed to happen and Tom House likes the tweet.

[jvan1973]

55 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Doyle always seems  to have a fumble  play each year

Lots of players have a fumble.   He has 5 in his career.   

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Im not counting  on Campbell.  I'd sign a free agent wr and draft one in the second that can contribute  right away

Like who?

[Arodgers12]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Like who?

Allen Lazard

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, Arodgers12 said:

Allen Lazard

Lazard is a fine player.   I wouldn't  consider him a guy teams are targeting 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This colts team is going to be so fun to watch. I am pumped after watching this video. Having someone that can stretch the field is going to be great. Taylor and Hines are going to have huge years with a QB that can stretch the field and run himself. Some of these plays that break down look like Mahomes.

 

 

[BProland85]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

This colts team is going to be so fun to watch. I am pumped after watching this video. Having someone that can stretch the field is going to be great. Taylor and Hines are going to have huge years with a QB that can stretch the field and run himself. Some of these plays that break down look like Mahomes.

 

 

Not sure he has that same mobility after his injuries, but I do hope he has a large chip on his shoulder to prove all his doubters wrong. He still has a great arm just needs to take to Frank’s coaching and refine his mechanics. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

If Wentz can even play like Harbaugh did in 1995 I would take that. Harbaugh started 12 games and eventhough he only threw for 17 TD's, he only had 5 INT's. He also completed 64% of his passes and his Y/A was 8.2 with a 100.7 QB Rating. He went 7-5 as a starter. I don't expect him to be like Peyton or Luck but I would take 95 Harbaugh play with our run game. 

[BluesGirl]

28 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

This colts team is going to be so fun to watch. I am pumped after watching this video. Having someone that can stretch the field is going to be great. Taylor and Hines are going to have huge years with a QB that can stretch the field and run himself. Some of these plays that break down look like Mahomes.

 

 

In this  video Wentz reminds me a lot of Luck's play.    I think the playbook will be wide open this yr like it was with Andrew.   Should be an exciting season.

[Scott Pennock]

Absolutely happy.

1. Proven commodity in the NFL with an average rookie year, 3 good to great years, and last year where he was beat to hell.

2. Manageable contract at average of 25 per year for 4 years with an escape clause.

3. Better than anyone we could have drafted

4. Will now have a chip on his shoulder

5. Look at how the key leaders of the team reacted, they are excited to have a quality QB in the house

6. Is a big, semi-mobile QB with a strong arm that can reopen the playbook to Andrew's year

7. Last years 4th round rookie is also of similar ilk so a transition to Eason shouldn't strain the gameplan much since they're so similar

[JoeThornburg]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If Wentz can even play like Harbaugh did in 1995 I would take that. Harbaugh started 12 games and eventhough he only threw for 17 TD's, he only had 5 INT's. He also completed 64% of his passes and his Y/A was 8.2 with a 100.7 QB Rating. He went 7-5 as a starter. I don't expect him to be like Peyton or Luck but I would take 95 Harbaugh play with our run game. 

Even Mahomes isn't going to push the ball 50 yards downfield if he has to run for his life. Both of them can still make some crazy good throws though. I think you might be setting the bar a bit low. This throw shows his arm strength so the comparison to Harbaugh is fair, but when Harbaugh went to Chicago they did nothing to get people around him. Same exact problem, so in that context I think you're setting the bar way too low on Wentz.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, JoeThornburg said:

Even Mahomes isn't going to push the ball 50 yards downfield if he has to run for his life. Both of them can still make some crazy good throws though. I think you might be setting the bar a bit low. This throw shows his arm strength so the comparison to Harbaugh is fair, but when Harbaugh went to Chicago they did nothing to get people around him. Same exact problem, so in that context I think you're setting the bar way too low on Wentz.

Yeah Harbaugh's stats would've been better had he started all 16 games, he only started in 12 games so he would've probably threw for around 25 TD's adding in another 4 games. It wasn't really a comparison but I am just saying I would take that kind of play from Wentz. Anyone expecting him to be Luck will probably be disappointed.

[ScotColt]

I wasn't all that keen on Wentz due to his awful play last season but as everyone has said, we got him for pretty cheap and there is that hope that Frank can get him back to his glory days. It's worth a shot based on that. Wentz knows the pressure is on, he can't afford to have another garbage season so I'm expecting him to perform at this best.

[Arodgers12]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Lazard is a fine player.   I wouldn't  consider him a guy teams are targeting 

How bout Aaron Jones?

[cptcomeback]

Don't care for the trade.  Value?  Hopefully, but this team is too good to waste time on a reclamation project imho.

[r a y s k i]

Whether you like Wentz or not, based on his potential, I think the trade has a great value for us. We need to see him play first, but giving a chance to a potential mvp caliber player for a 3rd and future 2nd maybe 1st is easy math. 

[shasta519]

12 hours ago, JoeThornburg said:

OK hold the phone here. First of all you're talking about a team that was a recovered fumble and a last minute drive away from the AFC Championship game last year with a QB at the helm who just retired.

But the year Reich endorsed JB, Luck waited until right before the start of the regular season to announce his retirement. What the heck else was was the guy supposed to do? A mid-season trade where you're going to give up assets and expect a new starter to come in and learn an offense? I don't see how you can hold him accountable for plugging in a back up at that point. It was the only sensible move.

 

On top of that, you didn't have a first rounder in 2020 because it was used to acquire Buckner, who has been a major force. Who were you gonna get anyway? Jordan Love? Jalen Hurts? You got JT in that draft as well. You pick up a Hall of Fame QB as a stop gap on a one year deal. If you're going to hold the HC accountable for personnel decisions I think you're a bit off point here. You're not going to get anything in the draft this year at QB that says "can't miss".

 

This was absolutely the most logical move that could have been made this year. For what they gave up and the price point you got, to get a QB who has shown that he can play at an MVP level, who is coming into his prime, but ended up mired in a toxic waste dump of poor management and coaching decisions this has the potential to be an absolute home run. You have the resources to put weapons around this guy. This was the closest thing you could possibly have gotten to a "can't miss" scenario. 

That’s just the “what if” game. If HOU doesn’t fumble at the 2-yard line at the very end of both games...Colts are sitting at home that weekend...possibility with only 9 wins on the season. You can play this game any number of ways. If they had correctly called the Pascal fumble...that last drive is over anyways. 
 

Besides, that was the WC round. They would have had to beat KC (in KC) in the Divisional round to get to the AFCG. So no...they were not a last minute drive away from the AFCG last season. And that team played easiest NFL schedule and lost to every AFC playoff team except KC (because they didn’t play them). That wasn’t a great team...but it was a good team. 
 

And I literally said I understand Reich endorsing JB and that the situation was bad. Of course making JB the starter was the only sensible move they could make. I said nothing about them making a trade or picking up another QB in-season.

And I have nothing against the Rivers move...said as much. 
 

It’s not about those moves...they are just part of the overall factors in the evaluation. This is about the Wentz move. This is Reich’s one true (and fair) shot at the QB position long-term without anyone or thing forcing his hand. And in the NFL, typically HCs don’t get two chances. So if it was truly a flop...then you likely move on.
 

And even if it’s not a total flop...just not a successful move...then I don’t know. Those are questions only Ballard can answer. But they are definitely fair questions after 4 seasons of evaluation of your HC.

 

As for this being the most logical move...I have to disagree. At least if the goal is to win the SB. 

 

I don’t think it’s very logical for a contending team to gamble on fixing a QB who was awful last season (unless that QB is really young and somewhat cheap). Nor is it logical to base that gamble on some season he had 4 years ago...before an ACL/LCL tear and a back injury ended two of his seasons (and have clearly impacted him). Not to mention that this QB isn’t even cheap...he’s already under contract at a decent clip. But I suppose to a team that carried a backup QB with a $21M cap hit...Wentz’s contract might look like a bargain.

I don’t think it will be a flop...but I will be very happy (and surprised) if he is better than Rivers. And I think it’s fair to think that Reich’s future in Indy depends on the outcome.

 

 

[colts8718]

Time will tell we did not have many options Ballard did the best he could. 

[Myles]

13 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

None of them have shown much and TY is washed up. Doyle is fine but he isn't a WR. Hines and Campbell are so far not great WR. The Colts need a number one thousand yard receiver and they don't have one. 

I don't think you really watch football.  Ballard had a decent WR core going into the season.   Had Campbell not gotten injured it could have been different.   Pittman looks like the real deal.   Ballard brought in Pittman and Taylor through the draft.   If those aren't weapons, I think you are mistaken.  I thought Hines could have been used in even more passing situations.  

[Myles]

6 hours ago, cptcomeback said:

Don't care for the trade.  Value?  Hopefully, but this team is too good to waste time on a reclamation project imho.

I don't think 1 poor season after 3 very good seasons equals a reclamation project.  I think Darnold, Rosen or Trubisky may qualify as that a bit more.  

[eaglerockdude]

Don Coryell chargers coach when asked if Lionel "Train" James could repeat his 345 total yards in a game vs. the Raiders.

 

"What a man does once, he can do again..."

 

So it depends if Reich can get him back to form.  

 

Is his arm noodleish?