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Colts Trade for Wentz (details in first post)


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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I wonder if TY could get back to some of his old self with a QB that is a more vertical threat.

 

Depends on if we go after Godwin or someone else. TY might now flourish best as a No.2 like someone across DeAndre Hopkins, that is why Spotrac had his likely destination to be the Cardinals.

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I am never playing poker with Ballard. My god that's a steal.

Long time Eagles fan, here is my rundown on Carson Wentz. I'll start with Wentz the person/teammate. Through 2018 he was widely considered a great guy, great teammate, hard worker. Then out of t

From Adam Schefter: Philadelphia has agreed to trade Carson Wentz to the Indianapolis Colts in exchange for a 2021 third-round pick and a conditional 2022 second-round pick that could turn into a firs

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12 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

I will say I am glad Indy still has their 1st and 2nd round picks this year to address LT, CB, DE, TE, and WR. Those are by far the biggest needs for this team now.

 

I really hope Ballard gets his TE and DE in free agency since there are some good ones that will be available (Carl Lawson, Yannick Ngakoue, Jonnu Smith, Hunter Henry, Zach Ertz, among others).

 

As far as compensation for 2022, if Indy does have to give up the 1st, that just means Wentz was a success in Indy I would think. If he's not, yeah it sucks losing a 2nd, but Ballard has shown he can acquire extra 2nd rounders while still getting his guy in the draft. 

 

Yes, couldn't have worked out better, having our 1st and 2nd round picks this year intact.

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I think it's reasonable to expect Wentz, at best, to play as well as Rivers did last year. If he does, I'll be thrilled. 

 

One would then hope that he can continue to grow and build upon that first season in a new organisation in the seasons that follow. I expect a playoff berth next season, but I don't expect serious superbowl contention. I'd like to hope that superbowl contention might be possible at some point in the next 3-5 years with Wentz though. 

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16 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

Honestly, Ballard robbed the eagles.

 

At worst:  we gave up a third round pick and 2nd round pick if he plays bad 

 

At best:  we gave up a third round pick and first round pick if he plays good

 

Ballard is a genius.  
 

Still have $69 mill for free agency, still have our first and second round pick.  We can still fill our needs and didn’t have to use any of our current capital to do it.

 

How I personally feel about wentz.  We’ll see.  Maybe he returns to his 2017 form.  Maybe he regresses. 

 

How I grade the deal.  100% colts win


Is it confirmed to be $69 mil in FA? Niceeeee...

 

Also, For those Cap people out there. Where does this leave the Colts for some priority FA out there? IMO need to improve the receiving group and pas this units.

 

I know they will be spending less in total on QB contracts this year. Will the Colts have room to spend in areas and still be able to easily DL and Big Q when the time comes?

 

 

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24 minutes ago, stitches said:

Is this snaps based or games based? Hm... if snaps based... blow every opponent out every game in the first 3 quarters and pull him out in the 4th. :D 

The Colts having to make the playoffs is the key. I like that part of it.

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Great trade for the Colts, giving up very little in draft capital. :applause:  If Wentz is healthy, I think he will thrive here. And he is a better fit for Indy than Philly. Congrats, Colts fans!

 

Now can I trade Rick Spielman for Chris Ballard. (Just kidding, folks. I am actually one of the few Vikes fans who wants to retain my GM.) 

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Colts having to make the playoffs is the key. I like that part of it.

 

The Colts don't have to make the playoffs. If they make the playoffs, the threshold gets lowered from 75% to 70%. 

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7 minutes ago, BC215 said:

Long time Eagles fan, here is my rundown on Carson Wentz.

I'll start with Wentz the person/teammate.

Through 2018 he was widely considered a great guy, great teammate, hard worker. Then out of the blue in 2019 a local Philadelphia writer Joe Santoliquito put out a piece on Wentz that wasn't very positive. It had a lot of damning stuff in there from anonymous teammates and people in the organization who labeled him entitled and selfish. The city was very angry at this article and dubbed Joe as an attention-seeker and putting out a smear piece. Joe's home was vandalized for putting out the piece, which is wrong and awful, but it happened.

Since then there has been back and forth with some players coming out in defense of him. Mainly long-term veterans like Jason Kelce, Zach Ertz, and Lane Johnson. Guys widely regarded as the most prominent leaders and classiest guys on the team. However, leaks continued to come out. I want to be clear, no leaks ever said Wentz is a bad human being. No one has said he's a bad person. But stuff seems to come out about him just being a little immature, not in a childish way, but blaming other aspects of the recent shortcomings for his problems. Making excuses during film study, things like that. Not putting the onus on him.

What is true and what isn't remains a question of everyone in Philly. It's been kind of a whirlwind since that piece came out in early 2019. At the very least I think there's enough smoke there to say at least some of the gossip is true.

Wentz the player:

Wentz was impressive in 2016 and was just tremendous in 2017. His improvisational skills were off the charts, he was decisive, he had full command of the offense, he was elusive and knew when to take off and run and use his athleticism to run for first downs or buy time. Since he tore his ACL and then the year after hurt his back, the athleticism has declined. He just doesn't have that same explosiveness or elusiveness he displayed in 2017. In 2020 it was more alarming and it's odd because while he did get a concussion in the playoff game vs Seattle, he stayed healthy through the whole season in terms of his joints and such. But something about this season he looked slow and sluggish when he moved. He wasn't able to show any of that escapability he still displayed in 2019 even after the multiple injuries he suffered. In 2019 he was inconsistent through much of the season, but had a tremendous last month, playing with essentially practice squad players because of injuries. Granted, they didn't play the best of competition, but he still finished really strong nonetheless. He looked poised, confident, accurate, and decisive in December 2019.

His accuracy fell off a cliff in 2020, and Wentz's strongest attribute was never his accuracy. His mechanics are sloppy. He isn't naturally accurate to where he can deliver passes in stride off his back feet like other QBs can. If he gets the small things wrong, his accuracy suffers drastically. He often sails screen passes over a receiver's head by 10 yards. Overthrowns deep balls by a mile. But when he's out of the pocket he's very good. There's still some debate in Philly as to whether it's all physical or mental. How can he be that much better on the move and out of the pocket even when there's a defender in his face? Does him moving around cause him to stop overthinking things and just use his natural ability?

Wentz has always had a strong arm. When he's on target he can fire balls into tight windows with the best of em. He's made some amazing throws. When he looks agile and elusive he can make some highlight reel plays.

The question is, how much of his decline in 2020 was health, how much of it was the coaching, and how much of it was he just didn't want to be here? As I mentioned, Wentz never quite matched his 2017 play again, but something after that season just never looked right. Not even just physically. He'd made decisions he didn't use to make, and it all came to ahead in 2020 where he just completely went off the rails there, as he had always been a QB up to this point, who erred on the side of caution instead of making risky passes. Some speculate Foles winning the Super Bowl and taking over his team just bothered him mentally and he's been trying to overcompensate ever since. Some think the injuries caught up with him and he just isn't the same. Some think he just needs a fresh situation and to get away from this situation for him to put whatever is bothering him behind him and he can get back to when he was at his best.
 

I wish I could give you an honest opinion on if it's the right gamble or not for both teams. It may seem like a cop out, but this is truly one of the oddest situations I have ever covered being an Eagles fan for over 30 years. A guy who looks like he's ready to take the NFL by storm, suffers a major injury, watches a QB who's largely mediocre take over, play the best football of his life and win a Super Bowl, then get the job back and never quite look the same. Other odd things have gone on in the organization as well in terms of the front office, so it's not the best situation right now to succeed in.

 

If anyone can get the best out of him, I believe Frank Reich can. I think Wentz is at his best out of the pocket, some RPO, getting him on the move, so it'll be interesting to see what kind of scheme Reich tailors to Wentz.

 

I have no ill will toward Carson, I wish him the best of luck in 2021! If he succeeds, it'll work for both teams, as the Eagles will get a 1st round pick and the Colts will have their new QB. That's what I'm hoping for.

 

I will post some links to some of our local guys who will be covering the trade later so you can listen in if you're interested. If not, no big deal.

 

Man, Philly writers had nasty things to say about John De Filippo too, right? Then folks turned on Doug Pederson?

 

That is the stark difference between the two Pennsylvania teams, IMO, Eagles and Steelers, duration of loyalty and benefit of doubt, when it is all said and done, especially when things go south. I am just a casual observer but that is what I see from the outside.

 

Based on that, I have a feeling Wentz will enjoy his time in Indy.

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I would highly recommend that for those interested, watch the 2017 highlights for Wentz on Youtube.

 

The guy has it in him, as he has done it before

 

If he comes in with the right attitude, and isnt forced to be the whole offense, we have a chance to be special

 

 

I am starting to think that we need to get him a dynamic TE, which he used well in Philly

 

 

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

. Now we should draft a LT in round 1 and another Edge Rusher in round 2 IMO, in round 4 maybe another WR?

 

I'd prefer a Playmaker WR in Rd. 1 & a vertical TE or CB in 2nd. 

Nelson to LT, Edge in FA.

 

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6 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

Now can I trade Rick Spielman for Chris Ballard. (Just kidding, folks. I am actually one of the few Vikes fans who wants to retain my GM.) 

 

I need your next three draft classes, and you can have him.

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6 minutes ago, BC215 said:

Long time Eagles fan, here is my rundown on Carson Wentz.

I'll start with Wentz the person/teammate.

Through 2018 he was widely considered a great guy, great teammate, hard worker. Then out of the blue in 2019 a local Philadelphia writer Joe Santoliquito put out a piece on Wentz that wasn't very positive. It had a lot of damning stuff in there from anonymous teammates and people in the organization who labeled him entitled and selfish. The city was very angry at this article and dubbed Joe as an attention-seeker and putting out a smear piece. Joe's home was vandalized for putting out the piece, which is wrong and awful, but it happened.

Since then there has been back and forth with some players coming out in defense of him. Mainly long-term veterans like Jason Kelce, Zach Ertz, and Lane Johnson. Guys widely regarded as the most prominent leaders and classiest guys on the team. However, leaks continued to come out. I want to be clear, no leaks ever said Wentz is a bad human being. No one has said he's a bad person. But stuff seems to come out about him just being a little immature, not in a childish way, but blaming other aspects of the recent shortcomings for his problems. Making excuses during film study, things like that. Not putting the onus on him.

What is true and what isn't remains a question of everyone in Philly. It's been kind of a whirlwind since that piece came out in early 2019. At the very least I think there's enough smoke there to say at least some of the gossip is true.

Wentz the player:

Wentz was impressive in 2016 and was just tremendous in 2017. His improvisational skills were off the charts, he was decisive, he had full command of the offense, he was elusive and knew when to take off and run and use his athleticism to run for first downs or buy time. Since he tore his ACL and then the year after hurt his back, the athleticism has declined. He just doesn't have that same explosiveness or elusiveness he displayed in 2017. In 2020 it was more alarming and it's odd because while he did get a concussion in the playoff game vs Seattle, he stayed healthy through the whole season in terms of his joints and such. But something about this season he looked slow and sluggish when he moved. He wasn't able to show any of that escapability he still displayed in 2019 even after the multiple injuries he suffered. In 2019 he was inconsistent through much of the season, but had a tremendous last month, playing with essentially practice squad players because of injuries. Granted, they didn't play the best of competition, but he still finished really strong nonetheless. He looked poised, confident, accurate, and decisive in December 2019.

His accuracy fell off a cliff in 2020, and Wentz's strongest attribute was never his accuracy. His mechanics are sloppy. He isn't naturally accurate to where he can deliver passes in stride off his back feet like other QBs can. If he gets the small things wrong, his accuracy suffers drastically. He often sails screen passes over a receiver's head by 10 yards. Overthrowns deep balls by a mile. But when he's out of the pocket he's very good. There's still some debate in Philly as to whether it's all physical or mental. How can he be that much better on the move and out of the pocket even when there's a defender in his face? Does him moving around cause him to stop overthinking things and just use his natural ability?

Wentz has always had a strong arm. When he's on target he can fire balls into tight windows with the best of em. He's made some amazing throws. When he looks agile and elusive he can make some highlight reel plays.

The question is, how much of his decline in 2020 was health, how much of it was the coaching, and how much of it was he just didn't want to be here? As I mentioned, Wentz never quite matched his 2017 play again, but something after that season just never looked right. Not even just physically. He'd made decisions he didn't use to make, and it all came to ahead in 2020 where he just completely went off the rails there, as he had always been a QB up to this point, who erred on the side of caution instead of making risky passes. Some speculate Foles winning the Super Bowl and taking over his team just bothered him mentally and he's been trying to overcompensate ever since. Some think the injuries caught up with him and he just isn't the same. Some think he just needs a fresh situation and to get away from this situation for him to put whatever is bothering him behind him and he can get back to when he was at his best.
 

I wish I could give you an honest opinion on if it's the right gamble or not for both teams. It may seem like a cop out, but this is truly one of the oddest situations I have ever covered being an Eagles fan for over 30 years. A guy who looks like he's ready to take the NFL by storm, suffers a major injury, watches a QB who's largely mediocre take over, play the best football of his life and win a Super Bowl, then get the job back and never quite look the same. Other odd things have gone on in the organization as well in terms of the front office, so it's not the best situation right now to succeed in.

 

If anyone can get the best out of him, I believe Frank Reich can. I think Wentz is at his best out of the pocket, some RPO, getting him on the move, so it'll be interesting to see what kind of scheme Reich tailors to Wentz.

 

I have no ill will toward Carson, I wish him the best of luck in 2021! If he succeeds, it'll work for both teams, as the Eagles will get a 1st round pick and the Colts will have their new QB. That's what I'm hoping for.

 

I will post some links to some of our local guys who will be covering the trade later so you can listen in if you're interested. If not, no big deal.

 

I did think after Foles won the SB, especially playing the way that he did that the whole situation has to be mentally extremely weird for Wentz.  Partially because he lead the team through the season to that point but in the end watches his backup become essentially the guy who will never have to pay for a drink in Philly again.  Then he's expected to take back over the team while his backup is viewed as a city wide hero for his play in the SB.  

 

I'm sorry but mentally speaking that's a weird situation to be in.  Perhaps it will help him mentally to be in a fresh situation and a city where his former backup isn't a legend for what he did in one game.  

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11 minutes ago, BC215 said:

Long time Eagles fan, here is my rundown on Carson Wentz.

I'll start with Wentz the person/teammate.

Through 2018 he was widely considered a great guy, great teammate, hard worker. Then out of the blue in 2019 a local Philadelphia writer Joe Santoliquito put out a piece on Wentz that wasn't very positive. It had a lot of damning stuff in there from anonymous teammates and people in the organization who labeled him entitled and selfish. The city was very angry at this article and dubbed Joe as an attention-seeker and putting out a smear piece. Joe's home was vandalized for putting out the piece, which is wrong and awful, but it happened.

Since then there has been back and forth with some players coming out in defense of him. Mainly long-term veterans like Jason Kelce, Zach Ertz, and Lane Johnson. Guys widely regarded as the most prominent leaders and classiest guys on the team. However, leaks continued to come out. I want to be clear, no leaks ever said Wentz is a bad human being. No one has said he's a bad person. But stuff seems to come out about him just being a little immature, not in a childish way, but blaming other aspects of the recent shortcomings for his problems. Making excuses during film study, things like that. Not putting the onus on him.

What is true and what isn't remains a question of everyone in Philly. It's been kind of a whirlwind since that piece came out in early 2019. At the very least I think there's enough smoke there to say at least some of the gossip is true.

Wentz the player:

Wentz was impressive in 2016 and was just tremendous in 2017. His improvisational skills were off the charts, he was decisive, he had full command of the offense, he was elusive and knew when to take off and run and use his athleticism to run for first downs or buy time. Since he tore his ACL and then the year after hurt his back, the athleticism has declined. He just doesn't have that same explosiveness or elusiveness he displayed in 2017. In 2020 it was more alarming and it's odd because while he did get a concussion in the playoff game vs Seattle, he stayed healthy through the whole season in terms of his joints and such. But something about this season he looked slow and sluggish when he moved. He wasn't able to show any of that escapability he still displayed in 2019 even after the multiple injuries he suffered. In 2019 he was inconsistent through much of the season, but had a tremendous last month, playing with essentially practice squad players because of injuries. Granted, they didn't play the best of competition, but he still finished really strong nonetheless. He looked poised, confident, accurate, and decisive in December 2019.

His accuracy fell off a cliff in 2020, and Wentz's strongest attribute was never his accuracy. His mechanics are sloppy. He isn't naturally accurate to where he can deliver passes in stride off his back feet like other QBs can. If he gets the small things wrong, his accuracy suffers drastically. He often sails screen passes over a receiver's head by 10 yards. Overthrowns deep balls by a mile. But when he's out of the pocket he's very good. There's still some debate in Philly as to whether it's all physical or mental. How can he be that much better on the move and out of the pocket even when there's a defender in his face? Does him moving around cause him to stop overthinking things and just use his natural ability?

Wentz has always had a strong arm. When he's on target he can fire balls into tight windows with the best of em. He's made some amazing throws. When he looks agile and elusive he can make some highlight reel plays.

The question is, how much of his decline in 2020 was health, how much of it was the coaching, and how much of it was he just didn't want to be here? As I mentioned, Wentz never quite matched his 2017 play again, but something after that season just never looked right. Not even just physically. He'd made decisions he didn't use to make, and it all came to ahead in 2020 where he just completely went off the rails there, as he had always been a QB up to this point, who erred on the side of caution instead of making risky passes. Some speculate Foles winning the Super Bowl and taking over his team just bothered him mentally and he's been trying to overcompensate ever since. Some think the injuries caught up with him and he just isn't the same. Some think he just needs a fresh situation and to get away from this situation for him to put whatever is bothering him behind him and he can get back to when he was at his best.
 

I wish I could give you an honest opinion on if it's the right gamble or not for both teams. It may seem like a cop out, but this is truly one of the oddest situations I have ever covered being an Eagles fan for over 30 years. A guy who looks like he's ready to take the NFL by storm, suffers a major injury, watches a QB who's largely mediocre take over, play the best football of his life and win a Super Bowl, then get the job back and never quite look the same. Other odd things have gone on in the organization as well in terms of the front office, so it's not the best situation right now to succeed in.

 

If anyone can get the best out of him, I believe Frank Reich can. I think Wentz is at his best out of the pocket, some RPO, getting him on the move, so it'll be interesting to see what kind of scheme Reich tailors to Wentz.

 

I have no ill will toward Carson, I wish him the best of luck in 2021! If he succeeds, it'll work for both teams, as the Eagles will get a 1st round pick and the Colts will have their new QB. That's what I'm hoping for.

 

I will post some links to some of our local guys who will be covering the trade later so you can listen in if you're interested. If not, no big deal.

Thanks

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6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Man, Philly writers had nasty things to say about John De Filippo too, right? Then folks turned on Doug Pederson?

 

That is the stark difference between the two Pennsylvania teams, IMO, Eagles and Steelers, duration of loyalty and benefit of doubt, when it is all said and done, especially when things go south. I am just a casual observer but that is what I see from the outside.

 

Based on that, I have a feeling Wentz will enjoy his time in Indy.

Philly writers never really had an issue with John DeFilippo. When he was let go, some of the writers thought it would be a good idea to bring him back, since he did a good job with Wentz, but it was not to be. Most of the writers defended Pederson and thought he got a raw deal from what is currently a poorly run organization.

 

Right now the writers are all in trashing Howie Roseman and Lurie. Well earned, both have been awful lately.

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12 minutes ago, BC215 said:

What is true and what isn't remains a question of everyone in Philly. It's been kind of a whirlwind since that piece came out in early 2019. At the very least I think there's enough smoke there to say at least some of the gossip is true.

 

Recently Bleeding Green Nation (Eagles SB Nation site)  had a scathing article about Wentz. But BGN is known for these type of negative articles. 

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2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Posturing. He was never getting two firsts and I think everyone knew it. He did okay for a QB some think is broken, that his team moved on from during the season.

 

I think Philly did just fine too. Unless Wentz is injured or plays horribly , he's pretty much a cinch to play 75% of the plays. That is If he plays just decently and is healthy . The Colts would need to sit him the last 4 games in order to keep next year's compensation at a 2nd rounder. Colts should have a roster good enough to be in contention after game 12 even with unspectacular QB play. So IMO , it's pretty much a 2021 3rd and 2022 first unless he get's hurt or benched for Eason. 

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35 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

2017 - he had a Top 5 O-line and running game, and hopefully we can provide him that to reproduce that same level of success. We already have a coach like Doug Pederson who goes for it on 4th down, so there is nothing lost there. :) Just want Reich to use multiple TEs to flood the zones, just need to wait and see if we can snag Ertz too. Now I am getting greedy and wondering if Ballard could have gotten Ertz under the same deal, LOL. 

He should do well. Ballards going to do his best to get him some nice receivers and TE to play with.

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16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Colts having to make the playoffs is the key. I like that part of it.

It's 75% without playoff condition OR 70% with playoff condition. 

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I was looking at his college highlights and they mentioned at least in college he never had anything less than an A. I wonder how that effected him mentally when everything blew up in Philly? You know how some Savants are at dealing with failure.

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Worst case scenario is that he plays mediocre, and starts all games, but the Colts miss the playoffs by a hair and lose their first round pick because he started and didn't play bad enough to get bench, but didn't play well, either. 

 

Absolute best case scenario is that he balls out and plays good for years to come, cementing the QB position and we steal a future hall of famer. 

 

I didn't want Wentz, but I will be rooting for him, of course!

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If we're a "make the defense respect the run" team, Wentz won't have to do a heck of a lot for us to make the playoffs.

 

Schedule looks brutal, but you never know how that turns out.

 

I think a lot depends on the missing D pieces, CBs and some Edge rush.

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20 minutes ago, Mackrel829 said:

I think it's reasonable to expect Wentz, at best, to play as well as Rivers did last year. If he does, I'll be thrilled. 

 

One would then hope that he can continue to grow and build upon that first season in a new organisation in the seasons that follow. I expect a playoff berth next season, but I don't expect serious superbowl contention. I'd like to hope that superbowl contention might be possible at some point in the next 3-5 years with Wentz though. 

I think Wentz is an upgrade over Rivers, even if he does throw a few more INT's.
 

Rivers played great, but he also caused a lot of vanilla play-calling. The PA ability Wentz possesses is a huge upgrade. Rivers' handoffs are also extremely slow and obvious. Wentz should allow Reich to open up the playbook.

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51 minutes ago, stitches said:

Both Trubisky and Jordan Love are off the table it seems. I say we get together and drink our sorrows away... Cheers :cheers:

Ha!!... I'm only saddened that I won't be correct in my prediction that was based only on economics and potential. I'm good with Wentz over Love and Trubisky. In fact, I think Wentz is going to be lights out as long as the Colts add skill positions around him especially WR. Wentz is mobile and has a live arm. I'm pleased actually.... Colts are going to be okay with this move.

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1 hour ago, WhyMclovin94 said:

If the reports of the deal are correct, we managed to trade a first and 2nd round pick for the 2nd worst qb in the league with a terrible contract. All this does is invite disfunction because we will need to bench him if we aren’t contenders to keep our 1st rounder, but Reich won’t bench him. So we will have to fire Reich in the 2nd half of the season so that we don’t lose the 1st rounder. This is terrible.

image.png.e30d9ed2f605a38167819ce559c570f7.png

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