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Colts Trade for Wentz (details in first post)


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59 minutes ago, Shive said:

Part of me feels bad for the Philly GM. To go from wanting 2 1st round picks to taking this is insane.

He had no choice either they traded him or they were going to cut him and get nothing. There was a lot of smoke and mirrors coming out of Philly because they wanted to try and raise the trade value on Wentz. But the rest of the NFL called their bluff.

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I am never playing poker with Ballard. My god that's a steal.

Long time Eagles fan, here is my rundown on Carson Wentz. I'll start with Wentz the person/teammate. Through 2018 he was widely considered a great guy, great teammate, hard worker. Then out of t

From Adam Schefter: Philadelphia has agreed to trade Carson Wentz to the Indianapolis Colts in exchange for a 2021 third-round pick and a conditional 2022 second-round pick that could turn into a firs

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Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

They want to put Hurts with NS

I dont know it all screams to me that Philly's front office seen something wrong with Wentz, and we all seen him play last year.

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16 minutes ago, csmopar said:

yep. didn't want him, dont want him. HOWEVER, I will as i said before, now root for him since he is our QB. I have faith in Reich/Ballard to know what they are doing. but im not gonna say that Reich wont bench him if he stuggles.  The bigger question is, just how long a leash he has

I'm guessing they will bench him around the 6th to 8th game mark if he's out there just sucking.

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1 minute ago, Rackeen305 said:

Have you seen the last play of the playoffs?

I dont want to make a big deal out of your comment, you are free to have your opinion after all

 

I do think Jacoby should have thrown that hail mary though

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Wentz had the Eagles over the table and there weren't other buyers. Weird situation, but Ballard didn't overpay at all given what all of the other options would have cost. And no, Trubisky wasn't an option.

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9 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Woooooooo!!! 

 

Yay! Not to take away from Rivers, but can't wait to see some actual QB rollouts! 

 

I'm excited to see some actual PLAY ACTION

 

I'm excited to see the Colts not play shotgun 95% of the time - JT will love getting back to QB under center 

 

Another great Ballard move!! 

 

Let's pray he stays healthy 

 

 

I'm glad you brought this up makes me feel a little better. We need to get another good TE. Henry maybe?

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2 minutes ago, chickenMan said:

Considering they were basically crying out in desperation for a first for Wentz, yes, Ballard fleeced them

to be determined for sure if we get last years Wentz chances are we got fleeced

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The colts haven’t drafted a player in the first round since Nelson. Depending who is on the board at 21 we might not this year either. We now can take a tackle or edge at 21 or trade down. Might even be a WR there if the other options we’re already taken.

 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Seems two-sided to me. Rather than making it about performance, which can be influenced by other team factors, they made it about playing time, which is isolated on Wentz's availability and performance.

 

I would have figured yardage or TDs would be factors, but where do you set those marks? Only 12 QBs went over 4,000 passing yards last season, and the Colts have only had one 30 passing TD season in the last four years. I could see Philly rejecting either of those terms, because they're very team reliant.

 

But if he's good, and he's healthy, he'll play. It's a win for both sides.

 

Half-joking here, and I’m not sure you even can do this, but I’d have thrown something in about fumbles/TO’s.

 

Then again, that might not be the best thing for a players confidence who already struggles there. Also, not really practical, since most conditions focus on the positive.

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16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Bright said is we got him and gave up very little. I didn't want him either but a 3rd this year and a 2nd in 2022 isn't much.

If the guy plays well how long are you going to keep this up? Theres plenty in this deal to protect us from significant loss. Its a steal if it works out. And it should bc we bet on our staff, our culture and our team as a collective to get him right. If he fails here he probably wont make it anywhere else

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24 minutes ago, csmopar said:

wow. your first post on the forum and its a total freak out

Not really. It was an observation and a theory about what Ballard might do in FA or the draft. Calm down.

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For those of you complaining about the "cost" of Wentz's salary this year and moving forward. Keep in mind last year we were paying the following QB's money!

 

Here’s a quick breakdown of the salary cap charges the Colts are paying to quarterbacks in 2020:

Philip Rivers: $25 million

Jacoby Brissett: $21.3 million

Chad Kelly: $750,000

Jacob Eason: $610,000

Andrew Luck: $6.4 million

Brian Hoyer: $2.95 million

 

Or basically $57,085,000

 

Yes you read that correctly - $57 million in cap space last year to that bunch.

 

We now have a set dollar amount on Wentz contract moving forward (with a possible extension to lower the cap hit in the works if he plays well) so that will help with free agency and other extensions. It also helps the morale of the locker room knowing we have secured a longer term solution to our QB quandary.

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Just now, Nesjan3 said:

to be determined for sure if we get last years Wentz chances are we got fleeced

Well the goal here is to fix Wentz. If he sucks I’ll eat crow, but I like my chances of Reich and Ballard fixing him

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1 hour ago, WarGhost21 said:

Great value! Nobody should be upset about this, even those who weren't big fans of Wentz!

Yeah, I’m not a huge Wentz fan.  But (a) I’ll keep an open mind, (b) I trust Ballard and Reich, (c) I think he’s about the best realistic option we have for the near future, and (d) we didn’t give up the farm to get him.

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5 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

What team do you root for? Are you a even a Colts fan? I'm sorry man, but this isn't life and death. It's sports. It's a diversion from everyday life. I would love for the Colts to go 19-0 every year and win every Super Bowl. That simply AIN'T happening! Your expectations are unrealistic and unfair. So every year there are 31 failures in the NFL if I understand your logic. Would I love to win the Super Bowl every year? You bet! Is that happening? NO! Am I going to be disappointed if the Colts don't win it all next year? Probably not. This is entertainment. I enjoy to watch and want my team to win, but my overall happiness is not dependent on anything the Indianapolis Colts do be it good or bad. I would have loved to have won more Super Bowls with Peyton Manning, but instead of looking only at Super Bowl wins I look at the enjoyment I had watching those teams win. I look at how Peyton Manning basically saved football in Indiana. I really hope that you change favorite teams every year because otherwise you are going to be very disappointed 95% of the time.

It is like talking to a wall, I am done responding to him because it does no good.

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38 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Wait a min. You thought the Colts played well last year? And you dont have your expectation of Superbowl every year?

 

You know what you are right. Because if the Colts only made it to 2 Superbowls with arguably the GOAT Peyton Manning, then I guess we shouldnt expect a superbowl anytime soon, if we go by your method/example...

 

But hey, KC Chiefs, Buffalo, Ravens even the Browns will be looking toward the Superbowl every year.

 

Enjoy your AFC South Divisional Banner "IF" you actually win that.

 

with numbers like: 

 

2020: 3-8-1 record | 57% comp | 16 TD | 15 INT | 49.6 QBR (Wentz)

 

I wouldn't expect the Superbowl Either. By the way, please dont get those numbers confused, as they were produced not by JB but Wentz. Hurray JB!

When has JB finished top 3 in MVP voting?

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5 minutes ago, krunk said:

If the guy plays well how long are you going to keep this up? Theres plenty in this deal to protect us from significant loss. Its a steal if it works out. And it should bc we bet on our staff, our culture and our team as a collective to get him right. If he fails here he probably wont make it anywhere else

I said it was a good deal and if plays good I will be happy but he wasn't my 1st choice and many people in here agree with me.

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Just now, Rackeen305 said:

So i need to change my favorite team because I know the talent that they bring in cant cut the check.

 

see 2020, Philip RIvers. Im not stupid, I have seen and watched football for years. Just because a fan says this QB is the best thing since Peyton Manning (joke) doesnt mean that i'm supposed to swallow it, line and sinker.

 

for reference just see my 2020 post on Philip RIvers. I guess I was right or were you right?? Thank you.

We went 11-5 last year and made the playoffs. What were your expectations? I don't think anyone ever said that Rivers was going to be the 2nd coming of Peyton Manning and I haven't seen anyone say that about Carson Wentz. Not every team gets to have Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, or Patrick Mahomes. I think our GM went and got the best QB he could without jeopardizing our future by giving away multiple high picks. To think that if a QB doesn't put up Manning numbers or win a Super Bowl the year is a failure is asinine. I'm really not sure exactly what I said after we signed Rivers but I imagine I said something like "this makes us competitive and gives us a shot at the playoffs". Rivers wasn't the reason we lost in Buffalo and if you think he was you must not have watched the game.

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1 minute ago, tvturner said:

Giving up a first for a reclamation project is the last thing I thought Ballard would do

and that's not what happened... 

 

"could become a first" is language to save someone's ego is by far and away the likely reason that's attached to the terms

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Just now, tvturner said:

Giving up a first for a reclamation project is the last thing I thought Ballard would do

He didnt bc its conditional. Do you understand what that means? It only happens if the dude plays well and he stays on the field. Two significant IFs. If he doesnt then the 2022 thing never happens.

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Just now, krunk said:

He didnt bc its conditional. Do you understand what that means? It only happens if the dude plays well and he stays on the field. Two significant IFs. If he doesnt then the 2022 thing never happens.

Yes I understand what conditional means

There's a low chance he gets hurt with our OL

 

And our roster is good enough to make the playoffs in spite of him

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13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Seems two-sided to me. Rather than making it about performance, which can be influenced by other team factors, they made it about playing time, which is isolated on Wentz's availability and performance.

 

I would have figured yardage or TDs would be factors, but where do you set those marks? Only 12 QBs went over 4,000 passing yards last season, and the Colts have only had one 30 passing TD season in the last four years. I could see Philly rejecting either of those terms, because they're very team reliant.

 

But if he's good, and he's healthy, he'll play. It's a win for both sides.

 

My worry like with most QB conundrums is not about the situation when he plays well or the one when he plays bad. My worry is about the situation when he plays mediocre. Lets say we start the year with Wentz and Eason as our QBs(we don't get anyone else or hell lets say we get someone like Hoyer to be backup). What if Wentz plays at Jacoby 2019 level? What then? Reich wouldn't want to bench him because he will feel like he can still win with him but we will still be in situation where we will know Wentz is not the answer and to add insult to injury we will have no 1st round pick to try to address that. 

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Just now, BProland85 said:

The question is, could we have gotten him for less? I don't like that we gave up a potential 1st in 2022. What are the conditions to get it to that?

75% of snaps OR 70% AND  make the playoffs.

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2 minutes ago, krunk said:

He didnt bc its conditional. Do you understand what that means? It only happens if the dude plays well and he stays on the field. Two significant IFs. If he doesnt then the 2022 thing never happens.

 

So if he doesn't play well or is injured, Colts won't have to give up the 2022 2nd?

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Just now, stitches said:

 

My worry like with most QB conundrums is not about the situation when he plays well or the one when he plays bad. My worry is about the situation when he plays mediocre. Lets say we start the year with Wentz and Eason as our QBs(we don't get anyone else or hell lets say we get someone like Hoyer to be backup). What if Wentz plays at Jacoby 2019 level? What then? Reich wouldn't want to bench him because he will feel like he can still win with him but we will still be in situation where we will know Wentz is not the answer and to add insult to injury we will have no 1st round pick to try to address that. 

Yeah there is a good bit of risk in this trade, but I guess thats why hes up for trade in the first place.  We need him to be above average to make this deal a hit

 

Personally i think they will lean hard towards just playing him, and only bench if hes really bad.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, krunk said:

He didnt bc its conditional. Do you understand what that means? It only happens if the dude plays well and he stays on the field. Two significant IFs. If he doesnt then the 2022 thing never happens.

 

IMO worst case is that he’s up and down or shows just enough to keep the starting job throughout the season. Lotta people talk about Wentz like he’s gonna be awful or elite, and I hope he is one of the two so it makes the decision easier, but it would suck if he’s just middle of the road. Really gets us in a tough position, at least in regards to the conditional 1st.

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5 minutes ago, relkins said:

You mean a steal for somebody who can't finish a season and a quitter. Ya good job.

 

Pretty sure the eagles quit on him especially when they couldn't get him weapons or a decent line.

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I was not a fan of bringing him in, but I am a huge fan of the little amount we are giving for him. Plus we can cut bait later on if he isnt the answer. I will absolutely be a fan of him in the colts uniform until he proves otherwise

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