QB Discussion and Preference Poll - Part 2.5

[EastStreet]

23 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Just out of curiosity who is the other poster who voted Mac Jones at 21

click on the line, and you can see the voter

 

whoever you are, get a room. either that, or put down the crack pipe 

[PrincetonTiger]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

click on the line, and you can see the voter

 

whoever you are, get a room. either that, or put down the crack pipe 

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

the only thing that could have made that gif better was if the ball went in, or bounced down and hit frosty in the snow balls.

[waterdog]

1 hour ago, The Fish said:

He can't throw to his left, his stats are put up in junk time, he can't hit open guys on the regular and I have Bears fans who called me and were thrilled that he was benched in the middle of the season and annoyed he got the job back and they back ended into the playoffs this year. The Bears were so thrilled with it they want the same guy as Ballard wants. There's more. I can keep going, but do I need too? Seems like "he's bad" given the topic really was satisfactory. 

1. he seemed to throw to his left more, and quite naturally, at North Carolina but, you're right,  fewer to his left with Chicago

2. I don't care much about stats, whenever they're made. Justin Herbert, 1 year ago, was rejected by many for his low stats, junk time or otherwise

3. Open receivers hit include A Rob and Kmet on consecutive redzone plays vs GB.

A Rob was hit in the chinstrap(bounced off) and Kmet was hit between the numbers(bounced off, luckily not INTd). There may be others I can't remember...no no...Javon Wims...endzone...New Orleans...hit Javon's hands and bounced off...

4, Bears fans must be thrilled now, because Foles is their guy...I think

Wentz would have an easier time in Indy...a move to Chicago could be career ending.

 

[shakedownstreet]

1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

According to Twitter Raider Fans want DC gone

A one & a two two's seems reasonable. I doubt he can be had for that

[shakedownstreet]

two ones and two twos seems like a fair price for carr

[shakedownstreet]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

hit frosty in the snow balls.

 

You know why Frosty had a smile on his face? He saw the snow blower coming

[stitches]

18 minutes ago, shakedownstreet said:

two ones and two twos seems like a fair price for carr

Why not just give the same for Wilson/Fields? 

 

I would throw up if we gave up this for carr...

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, shakedownstreet said:

two ones and two twos seems like a fair price for carr

Really?    You’d pay that much?

 

I confess I didn’t see that coming....

[shakedownstreet]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Really?    You’d pay that much?

 

I confess I didn’t see that coming....

 

Yeah. Starting QB's are expensive and the Colts are willing to pay top dollar

[shakedownstreet]

I doubt we could even sniff Carr at that price

[shakedownstreet]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Why not just give the same for Wilson/Fields? 

 

I would throw up if we gave up this for carr...

 

Carr is the kind of QB that could take the Colts to a Championship. If we could count on something similar from Wilson or Fields, then I am onboard 

[ScotColt]

2 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

two ones and two twos seems like a fair price for carr

 

Hell no. I like Carr but I'd never give that much for him. 

[shakedownstreet]

1 minute ago, ScotColt said:

 

Hell no. I like Carr but I'd never give that much for him. 

 

But at some point that is what we would have to pay for a player of that caliber. Is it better we roll the dice on a player like him or just continue to hope in the draft...

[stitches]

1 hour ago, shakedownstreet said:

 

Carr is the kind of QB that could take the Colts to a Championship. If we could count on something similar from Wilson or Fields, then I am onboard 

I don't think Carr is that kind of QB. He's in the Kirk Cousins tier. He's serviceable but expecting him to take your team to SB IMO is not realistic. I think Wilson and Fields on rookie deals are much more likely to give you the edge you need to go all the way. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

I don't think Carr is that kind of QB. He's in the Kirk Cousins tier. He's serviceable but expecting him to take your team to SB IMO is not realistic. I think Wilson and Fields on rookie deals are much more likely to give you the edge you need to go all the way. 

It depends on the team. See I put Flacco (in his prime) in the Carr and Cousins tier and Flacco won a SB. If we can get better on defense and get another good weapon at WR, Carr could lead us to a SB IMO. We have the O.Line and run game. I don't think it would take 2 1st's to get him either. I am thinking at most this years 1st and 2 2nd's = this years and next. That is a lot but may be worth it. It probably would take 2 1st's to get Ryan but he would be good here.

[shakedownstreet]

36 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It depends on the team. See I put Flacco (in his prime) in the Carr and Cousins tier and Flacco won a SB. If we can get better on defense and get another good weapon at WR, Carr could lead us to a SB IMO. We have the O.Line and run game. I don't think it would take 2 1st's to get him either. I am thinking at most this years 1st and 2 2nd's = this years and next. That is a lot but may be worth it. It probably would take 2 1st's to get Ryan but he would be good here.

 

You have me iffy on both. I still think it would take two ones to grab either of them. It's a sellers market. I'd rather have Carr

[NFLfan]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

Why not just give the same for Wilson/Fields? 

 

I would throw up if we gave up this for carr...

 

I think he was being sarcastic. 4 top picks for any player is insane. That would be about as bad as the infamous Hershel Walker deal 

[NFLfan]

2 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

 

Yeah. Starting QB's are expensive and the Colts are willing to pay top dollar

 

2 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

I doubt we could even sniff Carr at that price

 

More  

[stitches]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It depends on the team. See I put Flacco (in his prime) in the Carr and Cousins tier and Flacco won a SB. If we can get better on defense and get another good weapon at WR, Carr could lead us to a SB IMO. We have the O.Line and run game. I don't think it would take 2 1st's to get him either. I am thinking at most this years 1st and 2 2nd's = this years and next. That is a lot but may be worth it. It probably would take 2 1st's to get Ryan but he would be good here.

Flacco had one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL. Unless we think we are close to that level this IMO is wishful thinking. Both our starting DEs from last year are free agents(and aging), both our starting outside corners from last year are FA, our MIKE is FA. We are not close defensively. In fact I think we are more likely to be worse next year than last year defensively and we were not amazing defensively either. We were probably about average to slightly above average and it was mainly due to us being able to turn the ball over. TY is FA, our LT just retired, 2 of the 3 TEs are FA. We have no QB, no LT, no WR1, no starting DE, no starting CB under contract. This is hell of a lot of premier positions to fill with 70M of capspace and 1 draft class(if we are aiming at contending next year). And we want to give up 25-30M of that capspace to the QB and the first 2 picks from this draft(+more in future drafts) for that QB. So you are left with 45M and 3d round picks and later to address LT, WR, 2xDE, 2xCB, MIKE, TE.

 

I personally wouldn't give up anything of significant value for players like Carr, Cousins, Goff, Jimmy G. I think Ryan is better than all of them, but I wouldn't want to give up significant assets for him either, again because we are cannot afford to both give big money to the guy and give premier assets for him, which can otherwise be used for cheap labor at some premier positions. We are not close enough. We are not a QB away. We are QB, 2xDE, 2xCB, 2xWR, LT + depth away + all of Braden, Q, Leonard contract extensions pending. Those are not cheap. We don't have enough picks and money to address all of them to a satisfactory level IMO. 

 

That's why I'm a fan of not pushing it when we ultimately don't have enough talent at premier positions and rather take a step back and reset our window. IMO the window (with a new rookie QB) should be in 1-2 years rather than this year. We will also get a chance to replenish the roster with hopefully some hits at DE and CB(Ballard has pretty much missed on all of the day 2 DEs and CBs so far). 

[csmopar]

32 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

 

More  

there's only 2 QBs worth multiple 1s, neither will be a colt

[Fluke_33]

5 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

two ones and two twos seems like a fair price for carr

Carr is a better option than wentz for sure but that would be a steep price.   However I do think he is more than just a manager on the field; he can win games   I think a 1 and a 3 or 4 is fair.   He is a win now player opposed to a rookie who is most likely wait two years and then maybe be a winner. 

[NFLfan]

29 minutes ago, csmopar said:

there's only 2 QBs worth multiple 1s, neither will be a colt

 

Who are they? 

 

Shakedownstreet proposed (sarcastically, I believe) to give up 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders for Carr. I don't think I would give that up for any player. In football, one serious hit can end a player's career. If that happens, you not only lose that player, but you lose all those top players you could have selected with those 4 draft picks. 

 

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Who are they? 

 

Shakedownstreet proposed (sarcastically, I believe) to give up 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders for Carr. I don't think I would give that up for any player. In football, one serious hit can end a player's career. If that happens, you not only lose that player, but you lose all those top players you could have selected with those 4 draft picks. 

 

not Carr. I wouldnt give up much more for Carr as I would Wentz, maybe a conditional 3rd.

Watson and Russell Wilson. That's it of the QBs rumored to have or to be placed on the trade block

[MikChiken]

I think Wentz will surprise a lot of people if he came here. He has the ability. I just remember many saying the same about rivers coming over.. 20ints the year before for a bad team being 38 years old.. Reich is gonna turn the clock back with Wentz and I truly think he plays for 10 years here 

(if he comes) 

my next personal choice is trading up and grabbing someone if they see fit 

[NFLfan]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

not Carr. I wouldnt give up much more for Carr as I would Wentz, maybe a conditional 3rd.

Watson and Russell Wilson. That's it of the QBs rumored to have or to be placed on the trade block

 

I like Carr but I would not give much for him. I would trade for Wilson, especially if my team had the Colts OL. Oh my. I think you would win the Super Bowl. 

 

I can't recall if it was @stitches or @EastStreet who wrote that Wilson fell off towards the end of last season. That is true and I don't know the reason for it. But his OL is always bad. And for much of last season, it was Wilson who was being talked about for MVP. So, I think he has a lot left. I still would not give up 2 first and 2 seconds for him or any player, including Mahomes.

[csmopar]

20 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I like Carr but I would not give much for him. I would trade for Wilson, especially if my team had the Colts OL. Oh my. I think you would win the Super Bowl. 

 

I can't recall if it was @stitches or @EastStreet who wrote that Wilson fell off towards the end of last season. That is true and I don't know the reason for it. But his OL is always bad. And for much of last season, it was Wilson who was being talked about for MVP. So, I think he has a lot left. I still would not give up 2 first and 2 seconds for him or any player, including Mahomes.

yeah, wilson fell off big time. But if you look, the Seattle OL was decent the first few weeks of the season, 2-3 sacks a game, then fell apart with 5, 6, 5, 5, 4 ,5, sack games, starting with the vikings week 9.  After that beating, his QBR dropped from the 128-145 marks to 98, then 50. 73 etc. having only 1, 100+ QBR game the rest of 2020, meanwhile getting sacked like crazy.  

 

Wow, his starting center grades out at 18.8 for pass blocking?!?!!?

[NFLfan]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

yeah, wilson fell off big time. But if you look, the Seattle OL was decent the first few weeks of the season, 2-3 sacks a game, then fell apart with 5, 6, 5, 5, 4 ,5, sack games, starting with the vikings week 9.  After that beating, his QBR dropped from the 128-145 marks to 98, then 50. 73 etc. having only 1, 100+ QBR game the rest of 2020, meanwhile getting sacked like crazy.

 

So, you agree with me that Wilson (Russell) would flourish on a team like the Colts that has a top-rated OL?

 

I think Seahawks fans would not be pleased. 

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

So, you agree with me that Wilson (Russell) would flourish on a team like the Colts that has a top-rated OL?

 

I think Seahawks fans would not be pleased. 

yes i do. Provided he can work with Reich on getting the ball out faster.  He is credited with allowing 8.3% of his sack totals due to holding onto the ball, by far higher than any other QB in the league since 2012.

 

[stitches]

 

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

Roseman: We have finally traded you 

Wentz: Please tell me its the Colts

Roseman: Do you like deep dish pizza?

Wentz:

 

[John Waylon]

I wonder if anyone asked Wentz if he wants to come play here. Have we made sure to check that off the list yet? It’s a bit of an important detail in all of this. Surely someone has made sure we aren’t headed for a case of buyers remorse. 
 

[BProland85]

9 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

I wonder if Ballard may lower his offer of two 2nd round picks since I've heard that is the best offer out there, and possibly Chris could get Wentz for even less than that. If nobody else is really bidding, I would think Ballard would try to get Wentz for as little as possible. 

 

At this point though I wouldn't be upset if Ballard just moved on to either offering a 3rd or so for Darnold, or contemplating moving up in the draft for Fields or Wilson. 

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

I wonder if Ballard may lower his offer of two 2nd round picks since I've heard that is the best offer out there, and possibly Chris could get Wentz for even less than that. 

 

At this point though I wouldn't be upset if Ballard just moved on to either offering a 3rd or so for Darnold, or contemplating moving up in the draft for Fields or Wilson. 

Why oh why 

[BProland85]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

Why oh why 

 

What's your issue with my take?

[The Fish]

4 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

 

Carr is the kind of QB that could take the Colts to a Championship. If we could count on something similar from Wilson or Fields, then I am onboard 

Yeah. I don't see that, even kind of. Carr is the kind of guy who'd give Ryan Tannehill a real solid run for his money a couple of sundays a year. 

 

Not Superb Owls.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, BProland85 said:

 

What's your issue with my take?

Darnold

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

14 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

Or the bears have no offer. Saw a tweet this morning that said bears won’t give up 20. So seems nobody has the best offer.

[John Waylon]

Upon my initial check if Wentz’ Twitter (a very light check, admittedly, I’ll deep dive later) he has made no posts that appear to endorse even the state of Indiana as a whole, let alone Indy as a city or its football culture. 
 

Of course we’re reading the tea leaves here, but that seems to indicate that he may not like or want to be around us. 
 

[The Fish]

I'm a bit confused at the idea that Ballard would go giving up lot's of draft stock for the 3rd or 4th guy in the QB carousel in the draft. If he's evaluated that Wentz can do it (despite what I think), then increasing his offer, even a bit, like next years 1 instead of 2, is a much safer if nothing else move. 

 

Giving up lot's of draft stock get a guy like Fields is a 50/50 to get everyone fired- probably worse odds.