Super Sunday KC vs TB

[bluebombers87]

3 minutes ago, Myles said:

Worst Superbowl in a long time.   The refs bailed out the Buccs early in the game with poor flags.   KC couldn't put it together.   The commercials were lacking.   I usually expect to see a couple very funny ones and they were few and far between.  Bad game all around.   The halftime show was decent even though I never heard any of the songs.  

Bad officiating doesn’t explain the 2nd half performance.

 

Edit* Sorry I saw you acknowledged this. My bad.

[chad72]

Just now, Myles said:

Worst Superbowl in a long time.   The refs bailed out the Buccs early in the game with poor flags.   KC couldn't put it together.   The commercials were lacking.   I usually expect to see a couple very funny ones and they were few and far between.  Bad game all around.   The halftime show was decent even though I never heard any of the songs.  

Yeah, it was anti-climactic, no doubt. 
 

However, a few non-calls could have kept it close but the Bucs D wasn’t going to be denied today.

[TimetobringDfence!]

1 minute ago, bluebombers87 said:

Gonna have to disagree. He may be the better QB but you can’t use tonight as an example. He was under duress but his inability to pick up the blitz (coupled with poor play calling which is beyond his control) is what doomed him.

Ain't his fault his tackles were out and no one could block. He made alor of damn good throws that got dropped and looked better than Brady. The chiefs d just flat out sucks. Brady faced no pressure and had it way easier.

[bluebombers87]

Just now, TimetobringDfence! said:

Ain't his fault his tackles were out and no one could block. He made alor of damn good throws that got dropped and looked better than Brady. The chiefs d just flat out sucks. Brady faced no pressure and had it way easier.

Great QBs learn to pick up those blitzes. We all saw Manning do the same year after year.

 

Not saying he isn’t the better QB but you can’t use tonight as your measure.

[TimetobringDfence!]

4 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Gonna have to disagree. He may be the better QB but you can’t use tonight as an example. He was under duress but his inability to pick up the blitz (coupled with poor play calling which is beyond his control) is what doomed him.

He looked way better than Brady. Even under constant pressure he mad amazing throws that his guys dropped. Brady had no challenge by KCs God awful D. Tampa is the better team. Mahomes was the better QB.

[buffalo34]

What's more depressing is that the Bucs have a decent shot at getting back to the Super Bowl next season. No one in the division will pose the slightest threat to them (Brady playing in a division with three really bad teams? Is it Groundhog Day?), I think the NFC looks fairly weak next year, and they'll have a decent shot at getting homefield.

 

....at least the Patriots won't make it to the Super Bowl? I mean, we're done with that part of the season, right?

[TimetobringDfence!]

1 minute ago, bluebombers87 said:

Great QBs learn to pick up those blitzes. We all saw Manning do the same year after year.

 

Not saying he isn’t the better QB but you can’t use tonight as your measure.

He could call pick ups on those blitzes all night and no one would have blocked or caught it anyway. They were outmatched. It was even obvious blitzes his guys couldn't block on no blitz plays he was running every throw man.

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

He looked way better than Brady. Even under constant pressure he mad amazing throws that his guys dropped. Brady had no challenge by KCs God awful D. Tampa is the better team. Mahomes was the better QB.

Better athlete, not better QB, Mahomes still has ways to go to master Ds, IMO

 

Better QB has to work with guys other than Kelce and Hill like an OC to get the #3 and #4 guys to be able to step up, IMO

[bluebombers87]

1 minute ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

He looked way better than Brady. Even under constant pressure he mad amazing throws that his guys dropped. Brady had no challenge by KCs God awful D. Tampa is the better team. Mahomes was the better QB.

Kelce had two uncharacteristic drops and there was a drop in the end zone. Agree that’s unusual but he was 26 of 49. Not gonna put the picks on him as those were deflections. 
 

I think you’re right that Mahomes is the better QB overall but I can’t say tonight showed that. Brady was 21 of 29. Great QBs overcome great defenses. Tonight Mahomes just didn’t have the answer to Tampa’s D.

[bluebombers87]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

Better athlete, not better QB, Mahomes still has ways to go to master Ds, IMO

Good point. I think Brady has the edge in reading defenses and having an answer to certain schemes. He’s seen just about all of them.

 

Mahomes will learn and get better. This will likely end up being good for him. Nothing motivates a guy like Mahomes better than losing.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I went to a SB party, home now. What a disappointment. Now people know why QB's winning more than 1 SB is really tough, winning more than 2 is highly unlikely. Only Brady (7), Bradshaw (4), Montana (4), and Aikman (3) have won more than 2. Mahomes is a great QB but isn't even on Peyton's level so the ridiculous GOAT talk needs to stop regarding him. Brady is the GOAT as bad as I hate to say it and Peyton along with Montana are like 2a and 2b.. Mahomes played terribly tonight, he has a long way to go before he can even sniff being as great as those 3. Peyton also has 5 League MVP's to Mahomes 1. If ESPN even starts this GOAT crap with Mahomes I will  . Remember Rodgers and Brees only have won 1 SB, there is a reason for this. Maybe SB wins don't grow on trees?? So glad Peyton won 2 as a starter, can't take stuff like that for granted. KC fans were so sure that they would win tonight and they got their doors blown off.

[danlhart87]

Only GOAT conversation I want to see

 

 

 

[IcEWoLF]

1 hour ago, bluebombers87 said:

Great QBs learn to pick up those blitzes. We all saw Manning do the same year after year.

 

Not saying he isn’t the better QB but you can’t use tonight as your measure.

This 100% I couldn’t put my finger why Mahomes was struggling, he needs to do a better job setting up his protections if he wants to last in this league, if you don’t then your career will be short lived.

[2006Coltsbestever]

35 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I went to a SB party, home now. What a disappointment. Now people know why QB's winning more than 1 SB is really tough, winning more than 2 is highly unlikely. Only Brady (7), Bradshaw (4), Montana (4), and Aikman (3) have won more than 2. Mahomes is a great QB but isn't even on Peyton's level so the ridiculous GOAT talk needs to stop regarding him. Brady is the GOAT as bad as I hate to say it and Peyton along with Montana are like 2a and 2b.. Mahomes played terribly tonight, he has a long way to go before he can even sniff being as great as those 3. Peyton also has 5 League MVP's to Mahomes 1. If ESPN even starts this GOAT crap with Mahomes I will  . Remember Rodgers and Brees only have won 1 SB, there is a reason for this. Maybe SB wins don't grow on trees?? So glad Peyton won 2 as a starter, can't take stuff like that for granted. KC fans were so sure that they would win tonight and they got their doors blown off.

GOAT conversation should be between Brady and Peyton because they clearly have been the 2 best QB's since the 2000's began. QB's like Rodgers, Brees, and even Mahomes are great but not on their level. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Here is Belichick and Pats fans tonight after watching Brady and Gronk win it all  

[danlhart87]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

GOAT conversation should be between Brady and Peyton because they clearly have been the 2 best QB's since the 2000's began. QB's like Rodgers, Brees, and even Mahomes are great but not on their level. 

I agree 

Just now, danlhart87 said:

I agree 

I disagree 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Regarding accomplishments:

 

1. Brady 7 SB wins/3 League MVP's

2. Peyton 2 SB wins/5 League MVP's

3. Rodgers 1 SB win/3 League MVP's

4. Mahomes 1 SB win/1 League MVP

5. Brees 1 SB win/0 League MVP's

-Can we agree these have been the 5 best QB's over the last 20 years? Peyton is 2nd in the key categories out of these 5 QB's and has the most League MVP's = fact. The 2 most important things to win are a SB and or League MVP. Can't spin it any other way that is just fact and any QB will tell you that. Yeah Ben and Eli have 2 SB wins but neither has sniffed a League MVP. League MVP is an individual award as well. That award basically shows who the most important player is to their team in all of football.

[waterdog]

2 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

I agree 

I disagree 

Terry Bradshaw could be #1. Pittsburgh was truly terrible, that's how they got him...and don't compare them to, for example, the 2020 Jags. The 1970 Steelers were worse, and Bradshaw dragged them up to the top 4 times. He just had a short career.

Today, if the QBs had been made to swap teams, Brady would have been sacked 24 times.

 

[FortheWin]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

GOAT conversation should be between Brady and Peyton because they clearly have been the 2 best QB's since the 2000's began. QB's like Rodgers, Brees, and even Mahomes are great but not on their level. 

Brady is in his own universe right now. I can't believe he really won it in his first season with no off-season. 

 

Very happy to see KC get curb stopped. Their budding dynasty has been squashed.

[NFLUp]

12 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

TB not being disciplined 

This aged well !

[Luck is Good]

It’s an incredible run by the Buccaneers. They won three road playoff games to get a home SB. They didn’t choke away the opportunity. Brady brings an aura to his team. No way Buccaneers are SB champions today without Tom Brady at QB. Dude is ageless. On the flip side, Mahomes and the Chiefs came back to earth. It’ll be interesting to see how they bounce back from this horrendous affair. We’ve seen it before that all it takes is one game to change the direction of a franchise

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

Yeah, Byron Leftwich did a great job.

Not sure how much the OCs have influence over offenses that have Brady and Mahomes.  Maybe its a matter of giving credit to the person we choose to give credit to because of who they are, who we are, and how it makes us feel about ourselves.

 

As Colts fans, we hardly ever gave credit to NE, because we hated all of Brady, BB, and MclittleD.

[NFLfan]

14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Not sure how much the OCs have influence over offenses that have Brady and Mahomes.  Maybe its a matter of giving credit to the person we choose to give credit to because of who they are, who we are, and how it makes us feel about ourselves.

 

As Colts fans, we hardly ever gave credit to NE, because we hated all of Brady, BB, and MclittleD.

 

 I wrote that reply to see your reaction. I guessed correctly.

 

But to your original point, it had nothing to do with pocket QBs versus those who can scramble. If Brady was playing behind the Kansas City OL yesterday and facing Shaq Barrett, he would have been sacked at least 10 times. He may not have finished the game. It was not that Mahomes was bad. The OL gave him no time. He was pressured on nearly 60% of his dropbacks. Imagine Tom Brady playing with that.

[NFLfan]

@MB-ColtsFan, how are you doing? 

[chad72]

7 hours ago, IcEWoLF said:

This 100% I couldn’t put my finger why Mahomes was struggling, he needs to do a better job setting up his protections if he wants to last in this league, if you don’t then your career will be short lived.

 

Andy Reid and the Chiefs built that offense on the premise that they will be able to give Mahomes time to find the open guy. Once he did not have the time, Reid did not call for enough screen passes or put in 2 TEs to block etc. for extra protection. Their OL, that held up so well during the playoff run last year limped into the playoffs this year. Starting tackles out, and Kelechi Osemele that they got from the Ravens for guard out as well, losing 3 starters on OL can definitely derail any playoff team, IMO, especially going against a team like the Bucs with a very good DL.

 

I do think Reid and Spags got outcoached too, IMO, by Arians and company. 

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

 I wrote that reply to see your reaction. I guessed correctly.

 

But to your original point, it had nothing to do with pocket QBs versus those who can scramble. If Brady was playing behind the Kansas City OL yesterday and facing Shaq Barrett, he would have been sacked at least 10 times. He may not have finished the game. It was not that Mahomes was bad. The OL gave him no time. He was pressured on nearly 60% of his dropbacks. Imagine Tom Brady playing with that.

 

Highest in SB history, that pressure rate. Yes, it was a big factor. 

[DougDew]

22 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

 I wrote that reply to see your reaction. I guessed correctly.

 

But to your original point, it had nothing to do with pocket QBs versus those who can scramble. If Brady was playing behind the Kansas City OL yesterday and facing Shaq Barrett, he would have been sacked at least 10 times. He may not have finished the game. It was not that Mahomes was bad. The OL gave him no time. He was pressured on nearly 60% of his dropbacks. Imagine Tom Brady playing with that.

I'm glad you can predict how right I am.

 

But that doesn't explain why Brady scored 31 points.  We used to say the same thing about NEs "great" oline.  Him standing back there with no pressure.  Maybe its him?  Less Arians ball when Brady got to TB.  Not sure if Leftwich was there when Winston was.

 

And Mahomes is known for his scrambling.  That's what he does.  How does the quality of his oline ever have much to do with anything that he gets known for?  

 

Maybe other opponents will begin to figure out KCs game plan is nothing more than  "have Patrick run around for a while until he finds Tyreek or Kelce"

 

He still threw on target during the junk ball plays.  The difference was that TB had back seven players that actually covered Tyreek and Kelce, and tackled them if they managed to catch the pass. Only on a few plays was Kelce wide open.  Mahomes rarely looked at anybody but those two, which is usually what he does.  Maybe the OC should have called more plays for Watkins when it became obvious TB was able to cover Kelce and Tyreek.  

 

Late in the game TB rushed more, which is always what happens when one team is way down in points.

 

And overall, their two ILBs are very good and they probably should have gotten the MVP, IMO.

 

And I wanted us to take Antoine Winfield Jr, but he was gone by the early second round.

[NFLUp]

Colt fans complaining about PI calls when the KC players clearly interfered with the play is hilarious.

2003 anyone?  Anyone?

[NFLUp]

10 hours ago, New Zealands #1 Colts Fan said:

Hey Bill, how's the pats without TB??

BB himself said early in the season that it’s a rebuilding year.  Wasn’t a fun ride, but it was expected.

 

[chad72]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm glad you can predict how right I am.

 

But that doesn't explain why Brady scored 31 points.  We used to say the same thing about NEs "great" oline.  Him standing back there with no pressure.  Maybe its him?  Maybe its a smarter game plan than "have Patrick run around for a while until he finds Tyreek or Kelce"

 

And Mahomes is known for his scrambling.  That's what he does.  How does the quality of his oline ever have much to do with anything that he gets known for?

 

He still threw on target during the junk ball plays.  The difference was that TB had back seven players that actually covered Tyreek and Kelce, and tackled them if they managed to catch the pass. Only on a few plays was Kelce wide open.  Mahomes rarely looked at anybody but those two, which is usually what he does.  Maybe the OC should have called more plays for Watkins when it became obvious TB was able to cover Kelce and Tyreek.  

 

Late in the game TB rushed more, which is always what happens when one team is way down in points.

 

Yep, they had Watkins contributing in the playoffs last year and missed it this year. Watkins was a very pivotal 3rd wheel all throughout the playoffs last year and was too banged up this year. Plus, Hardman and Pringle, tragic route runners, based on what I saw. You can't just draft like the Raiders for speed and not harness it right when your primary options are nullified.

 

The difference I did see between the Patriots defense against which Mahomes and Alex Smith with the Chiefs were able to put up points even during their SB winning years versus the Bucs is the LB core speed that limited RBs. Kareem Hunt, Damien Williams etc. were all able to get production against Belichick because the Patriots LBs did not have speed to keep up vs good RBs, something that was exploited by Doug Pederson and the Eagles too in the SB. It led Belichick to play more nickel and dime, IMO. The Bucs do not have that problem and have talent on that D at all levels.

 

Like I said before, if Mahomes wants to get close to Brady, Manning levels, he needs to get the most out of the #3, #4 options and on days like yesterday, all that work will show up.

 

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Yep, they had Watkins contributing in the playoffs last year and missed it this year. Watkins was a very pivotal 3rd wheel all throughout the playoffs last year and was too banged up this year. Plus, Hardman and Pringle, tragic route runners, based on what I saw. You can't just draft like the Raiders for speed and not harness it right when your primary options are nullified.

 

The difference I did see between the Patriots defense against which Mahomes and Alex Smith with the Chiefs were able to put up points even during their SB winning years versus the Bucs is the LB core speed that limited RBs. Kareem Hunt, Damien Williams etc. were all able to get production against Belichick because the Patriots LBs did not have speed to keep up vs good RBs, something that was exploited by Doug Pederson and the Eagles too in the SB. It led Belichick to play more nickel and dime, IMO. The Bucs do not have that problem and have talent on that D at all levels.

 

Like I said before, if Mahomes wants to get close to Brady, Manning levels, he needs to get the most out of the #3, #4 options and on days like yesterday, all that work will show up.

 

Yes. I edited my post as you were writing.  I said that Lavonte David and the other ILB probably should have gotten co-MVPs instead of Brady.

 

They were the difference, because Mahomes always runs around anyway.  In fact, KC doesn't score well if Mahomes stays in the pocket.  Him getting flushed out of the pocket is actually when KCs offense is at its best.

[MB-ColtsFan]

26 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

@MB-ColtsFan, how are you doing? 

Mornin', my friend.  Hangin' in there.

I turned off the game just before halftime just before TB scored.  The refs ruined it for me and I knew the game was over.  I'm just so sick of seeing Brady's face, lol.

 

How's it going with you?  You guys getting into the QB sweepstakes this year?

[NFLUp]

9 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

He looked way better than Brady. Even under constant pressure he mad amazing throws that his guys dropped. Brady had no challenge by KCs God awful D. Tampa is the better team. Mahomes was the better QB.

LOL.

Yeah, I’m no way whatsoever did Mahomes look better than Brady.  You are literally the only one saying this. 

[bluebombers87]

19 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm glad you can predict how right I am.

 

But that doesn't explain why Brady scored 31 points.  We used to say the same thing about NEs "great" oline.  Him standing back there with no pressure.  Maybe its him?  Less Arians ball when Brady got to TB.  Not sure if Leftwich was there when Winston was.

 

And Mahomes is known for his scrambling.  That's what he does.  How does the quality of his oline ever have much to do with anything that he gets known for?  

 

Maybe other opponents will begin to figure out KCs game plan is nothing more than  "have Patrick run around for a while until he finds Tyreek or Kelce"

 

He still threw on target during the junk ball plays.  The difference was that TB had back seven players that actually covered Tyreek and Kelce, and tackled them if they managed to catch the pass. Only on a few plays was Kelce wide open.  Mahomes rarely looked at anybody but those two, which is usually what he does.  Maybe the OC should have called more plays for Watkins when it became obvious TB was able to cover Kelce and Tyreek.  

 

Late in the game TB rushed more, which is always what happens when one team is way down in points.

 

And overall, their two ILBs are very good and they probably should have gotten the MVP, IMO.

 

And I wanted us to take Antoine Winfield Jr, but he was gone by the early second round.

I’d be curious to see, since pressure was a factor, if there was a dump off/check down receiver as part of a safety valve. If there wasn’t, why didn’t Reid/Co. call more plays to account for the pressure? If there was, why didn’t Mahomes use them?

 

Mahomes usually thrives in his scrambling due to his accuracy but it seems that falls apart with disciplined DBs and backfields who stay with their assignments regardless of how long the play lasts.

[NFLfan]

25 minutes ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

Mornin', my friend.  Hangin' in there.

I turned off the game just before halftime just before TB scored.  The refs ruined it for me and I knew the game was over.  I'm just so sick of seeing Brady's face, lol.

 

How's it going with you?  You guys getting into the QB sweepstakes this year?

 

I'm doing well. Thanks for asking.

 

I wish we would get into the QB sweepstakes but it does not look like we will. I would like us to start all over again (rebuild). I actually like the Chris Ballard way of building a team -- through the draft and not over-spending on high-priced free agents. My GM used to be that way but he made the mistake of signing a high-priced QB and then could not keep the other players. 

 

It was not fun seeing Brady hoist the Lombardi Trophy again. I was hoping he would retire but he says he is coming back.

 

All the best this offseason. Be sure to stop by on the forum. 

[FortheWin]

1 hour ago, NFLUp said:

BB himself said early in the season that it’s a rebuilding year.  Wasn’t a fun ride, but it was expected.

 

This season could not have played out any worse for Bill with Brady winning the chip in his first year away from NE.

[aaron11]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

And Mahomes is known for his scrambling.  That's what he does.  How does the quality of his oline ever have much to do with anything that he gets known for?

His tackles were out last night, there was nowhere for him to go besides backwards.   I think you are reaching hard for reasons to discredit him when he really had no chance. 

 

He even still threw some pretty amazing and catchable passes that fell incomplete because the coverage outplayed his receivers too

 

 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

His tackles were out last night, there was nowhere for him to go besides backwards.   I think you are reaching hard for reasons to discredit him when he really had no chance. 

 

He even still threw some pretty amazing and catchable passes that fell incomplete because the coverage outplayed his receivers too

 

 

I know, but Mahomes style of play doesn't require oline talent as much as Brady's.  There are comments here that say the difference in Qb play was due to the better olines and pass rush, when those two things matter less to Mahomes because he doesn't tend to make special plays when he's in the pocket.

 

As I said, I think Lavonte David and the other ILB (White?) deserve co-mvps because of how they covered KCs receivers. 

 

Some of what we saw was not due to OT injury.  A lot of KCs problems were essentially coverage sacks and passes defended, which opposing defenses rarely do when Mahomes is running out of the pocket.  That's all I'm saying.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, bluebombers87 said:

I’d be curious to see, since pressure was a factor, if there was a dump off/check down receiver as part of a safety valve. If there wasn’t, why didn’t Reid/Co. call more plays to account for the pressure? If there was, why didn’t Mahomes use them?

 

Mahomes usually thrives in his scrambling due to his accuracy but it seems that falls apart with disciplined DBs and backfields who stay with their assignments regardless of how long the play lasts.

They tried a few screens, but Mahomes was either inaccurate with the passes (behind the receiver) or the defense was right there to break it up. 

 

No designed passes to the RBs that I saw.  No Williams. No Watkins.  Reid/Bienemy tried to run nothing but the Patrick, Travis, and Tyreek show all night long.

[aaron11]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

As I said, I think Lavonte David and the other ILB (White?) deserve co-mvps because of how they covered KCs receivers. 

I agree the Tampa defense deserved more based on that game alone.  It felt like they gave it to Tom just because.