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2 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

He was extremely football smart.  Probably about 1 million times more football smart than you, sir.

He was not football smart at all. When he was about to be sacked Peyton would roll and go down to prevent injury. Luck would stand up and take the full brunt of the hit trying to extend a play. He also was absurdly slow in locating a receiver and getting rid of the ball so no offensive line including the one we have now could have protected him. He took off running and didn't slide to avoid hits. That was not smart football and a very short injury ridden career was a guarantee. I do agree that he was a million times more football smart than me but he was way behind Peyton Manning in that area and he never spent the time studying opponents on film like Peyton did. As I said, Luck wouldn't make a pimple on Peyton's *. He also was never going to lead the Colts to a Super Bowl. He was vastly overhyped and overrated. Then he turned into a whining wimp. Other than that he was just fine, I suppose.

 

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The disrespect Luck gets from fans is awful. He did a lot with the garbage around him and some fans act betrayed.    The man made a choice choosing his health and family over a game.  

I'll be honest.   I was very upset with Andrew when the news first came out.   I was livid (also a little drunk)   Then when I saw his press conference and listened to him I understood it.    He is a

He's a wuss. We aren't talking about concussions here. Nobody would question him if it was. He didn't want to rehab a strained calf and quit two weeks before the opening game .Good grief, nobody does

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Just now, Thebrashandthebold said:

He was not football smart at all. When he was about to be sacked Peyton would roll and go down to prevent injury. Luck would stand up and take the full brunt of the hit trying to extend a play. He also was absurdly slow in locating a receiver and getting rid of the ball so no offensive line including the one we have now could have protected him. He took off running and didn't slide to avoid hits. That was not smart football and a very short injury ridden career was a guarantee. I do agree that he was a million times more football smart than me but he was way behind Peyton Manning in that area and he never spent the time studying opponents on film like Peyton did. As I said, Luck wouldn't make a pimple on Peyton's *. He also was never going to lead the Colts to a Super Bowl. He was vastly overhyped and overrated. Then he turned into a whining wimp. Other than that he was just fine, I suppose.

 

 

You have no idea how many hours Peyton or Luck spent in the film room.

 

Peyton didn't run to extend plays because he couldn't.

 

In Luck's 3rd year he had us in AFC Championship game.  On a team with much more offensive fire power, it took Peyton 6 years to take Indy to the AFC Championship game.  

 

I'd like to see you tell Luck to his face that he couldn't make a pimple on Peyton's behind or that he's a whining wimp.  You are so Brash and so Bold that you probably quivered writing this post.

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35 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

You have no idea how many hours Peyton or Luck spent in the film room.

 

Peyton didn't run to extend plays because he couldn't.

 

In Luck's 3rd year he had us in AFC Championship game.  On a team with much more offensive fire power, it took Peyton 6 years to take Indy to the AFC Championship game.  

 

I'd like to see you tell Luck to his face that he couldn't make a pimple on Peyton's behind or that he's a whining wimp.  You are so Brash and so Bold that you probably quivered writing this post.

I would tell him that in a heart beat and I would tell him why I believe that. I do know how much preparation Peyton made, it was legendary. I also know Luck did nothing like that. Peyton would not have done anything different if he had been a runner. He knew his importance to the team. Luck didn't care and didn't protect himself. The outcome was inevitable. Yes, he got the ECV Championship game. How did he do there? Peyton ran smack into the Patriot dynasty and he never had the defenses that Brady enjoyed. You can also add me to the list that believe if Peyton had stayed he would not have taken all of the punishment that Luck did behind that offensive line. The decision making and throwing speed was just to great for that. Luck wouldn't get rid of the ball and he never did learn to go to a "check down receiver". He just stood there and he got hammered. Too bad, he might have been something special but he didn't want it bad enough.

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7 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I would tell him that in a heart beat and I would tell him why I believe that. I do know how much preparation Peyton made, it was legendary. I also know Luck did nothing like that. Peyton would not have done anything different if he had been a runner. He knew his importance to the team. Luck didn't care and didn't protect himself. The outcome was inevitable. Yes, he got the ECV Championship game. How did he do there? Peyton ran smack into the Patriot dynasty and he never had the defenses that Brady enjoyed. You can also add me to the list that believe if Peyton had stayed he would not have taken all of the punishment that Luck did behind that offensive line. The decision making and throwing speed was just to great for that. Luck wouldn't get rid of the ball and he never did learn to go to a "check down receiver". He just stood there and he got hammered. Too bad, he might have been something special but he didn't want it bad enough.

 

You wouldn't say that to Luck's face.

 

You don't know how many hours Peyton spent in the film room.  You don't know how many hours Luck spent in the film room.

 

I don't know what ECV means.  

 

You don't know how bad Luck wanted anything.

 

I don't want to call you an imbecile, but you are acting the way a person who is truly an imbecile would act.

 

Good day, sir.

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29 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

I don't want to call you an imbecile, but you are acting the way a person who is truly an imbecile would act.

After seeing you post so many times with facts and figures to at least try to back up your opinions, I never expected you to resort to ad hominem attacks. You seem to be taking any Luck bashing extremely personally. I'm surprised and disappointed.

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3 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I would tell him that in a heart beat and I would tell him why I believe that. I do know how much preparation Peyton made, it was legendary. I also know Luck did nothing like that. Peyton would not have done anything different if he had been a runner. He knew his importance to the team. Luck didn't care and didn't protect himself. The outcome was inevitable. Yes, he got the ECV Championship game. How did he do there? Peyton ran smack into the Patriot dynasty and he never had the defenses that Brady enjoyed. You can also add me to the list that believe if Peyton had stayed he would not have taken all of the punishment that Luck did behind that offensive line. The decision making and throwing speed was just to great for that. Luck wouldn't get rid of the ball and he never did learn to go to a "check down receiver". He just stood there and he got hammered. Too bad, he might have been something special but he didn't want it bad enough.

All these negative things about Luck and how you don’t think he worked or studied hard enough....    you stated you “know” these things.    
 

May I ask HOW you know these things?   This is a sincere question.   I look forward to your answer. 

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8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

All these negative things about Luck and how you don’t think he worked or studied hard enough....    you stated you “know” these things.    
 

May I ask HOW you know these things?   This is a sincere question.   I look forward to your answer. 

I read tons and I followed the Colts closely. I didn't say that he didn't work hard enough. I am sure that he did. I also am not sure if he studied tape intensely enough. Everything I heard was that he didn't do that nearly as much as Peyton Manning did. Perhaps no one else would have. People wrote about these things all of the time and his play always said to me that he wasn't as prepared for his opponents as Peyton would have been. I hope that answers the question.

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7 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I read tons and I followed the Colts closely. I didn't say that he didn't work hard enough. I am sure that he did. I also am not sure if he studied tape intensely enough. Everything I heard was that he didn't do that nearly as much as Peyton Manning did. Perhaps no one else would have. People wrote about these things all of the time and his play always said to me that he wasn't as prepared for his opponents as Peyton would have been. I hope that answers the question.


You have a sentence in the middle of your post that is key.

 

”Perhaps no one did.”

 

Bingo!  I’d guess only Tom Brady might’ve studied as hard as Peyton.   His work ethic was legendary and well deserved. 
 

I take a backseat to no one as someone who admired Luck.   But I said when I arrived here in 2012 and every year since that there was no way Luck was EVER going to be as great as Peyton.  Never going to happen.

 

If Luck had played 15 years and won two Super Bowls he still was never going to be as great as Peyton.   But that doesn’t mean he didn’t work hard, or study hard, or that football wasn’t important to him.

 

As for everything else, I respect your view of Luck is different from mine.  And I’m ok with that....

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17 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I would tell him that in a heart beat and I would tell him why I believe that. I do know how much preparation Peyton made, it was legendary. I also know Luck did nothing like that. Peyton would not have done anything different if he had been a runner. He knew his importance to the team. Luck didn't care and didn't protect himself. The outcome was inevitable. Yes, he got the ECV Championship game. How did he do there? Peyton ran smack into the Patriot dynasty and he never had the defenses that Brady enjoyed. You can also add me to the list that believe if Peyton had stayed he would not have taken all of the punishment that Luck did behind that offensive line. The decision making and throwing speed was just to great for that. Luck wouldn't get rid of the ball and he never did learn to go to a "check down receiver". He just stood there and he got hammered. Too bad, he might have been something special but he didn't want it bad enough.

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14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


You have a sentence in the middle of your post that is key.

 

”Perhaps no one did.”

 

Bingo!  I’d guess only Tom Brady might’ve studied as hard as Peyton.   His work ethic was legendary and well deserved. 
 

I take a backseat to no one as someone who admired Luck.   But I said when I arrived here in 2012 and every year since that there was no way Luck was EVER going to be as great as Peyton.  Never going to happen.

 

If Luck had played 15 years and won two Super Bowls he still was never going to be as great as Peyton.   But that doesn’t mean he didn’t work hard, or study hard, or that football wasn’t important to him.

 

As for everything else, I respect your view of Luck is different from mine.  And I’m ok with that....

To compare any QB to Tom Brady or Peyton Manning just isn't fair IMO. I will say Joe Montana as well because he was the QB of the 80's. The 80's is when athlete's started to get really big and fast and defensive players were allowed to basically beat up QB's.

 

I mean those 3 QB's resume speaks for themselves:

Brady = 7 SB rings as a starter, 3 League MVP's, 5 SB MVP's. His film study is almost unmatched. Very smart QB and gets all of his WR's on the same page.

 

Peyton = 2 SB rings as a starter, 5 League MVP's, 1 SB MVP. His film study is like Brady's, pretty even. Peyton is the smartest QB I have ever seen with audible's into the right play. He and Brady both play chess while other QB's play checkers. Peyton was a coach on the field.

 

Montana = 4 SB rings as a starter, 2 League MVP's, 3 SB MVP's. He played in an era where QB's got brutalized lol. When I think of clutch, I think of him = 4-0 in SB's and in 4 SB's he threw no INT's. He was a step ahead of everyone when he played.

 

-We have had other QB's like Elway, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, and now Mahomes but not even those QB's have been better. Luck would've had to have a career with at least 3 SB wins, 3 League MVP's and at least 1 SB MVP to even be compared to any of the 3 QB's in Brady, Peyton, or Montana. Perhaps Mahomes will but that is not a given. 

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The 80's is when athlete's started to get really big and fast and defensive players were allowed to basically beat up QB's.

 

This is why comparing eras is basically pointless. Tom Brady gets hit a few times a year like Joe did multiple times a game. It's not 1:1 at all.

 

What Joe achieved, in that era, where guys like Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary ect were basically headhunting still stands out to me as the definitive achievement for a QB to be honest. 

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6 minutes ago, The Fish said:

This is why comparing eras is basically pointless. Tom Brady gets hit a few times a year like Joe did multiple times a game. It's not 1:1 at all.

 

What Joe achieved, in that era, where guys like Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary ect were basically headhunting still stands out to me as the definitive achievement for a QB to be honest. 

Some the hits that Joe and his fellow contemporaries took are not allowed today

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10 minutes ago, The Fish said:

This is why comparing eras is basically pointless. Tom Brady gets hit a few times a year like Joe did multiple times a game. It's not 1:1 at all.

 

What Joe achieved, in that era, where guys like Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary ect were basically headhunting still stands out to me as the definitive achievement for a QB to be honest. 

Not to mention guys like Reggie White and Bruce Smith just teeing off on QB's in the 80's/early 90's. That is why I will always think Joe belongs in the GOAT convo. Peyton and Tom both do have quick releases so they could probably adapt to any era but all it takes is one brutal hit by a 275 pound DE and it could be over. Remember when Jim Burt for the Giants just creamed Montana in the NFC Title Game. I thought Joe was dead and no penalty was called. Joe was out for the game.

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10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not to mention guys like Reggie White and Bruce Smith just teeing off on QB's in the 80's/early 90's. That is why I will always think Joe belongs in the GOAT convo. Peyton and Tom both do have quick releases so they could probably adapt to any era but all it takes is one brutal hit by a 275 pound DE and it could be over. Remember when Jim Burt for the Giants just creamed Montana in the NFC Title Game. I thought Joe was dead and no penalty was called. Joe was out for the game.

Imagine 6 year old me absorbing one my very first solid football memories on that play... I was sad.. lol..

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2 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Imagine 6 year old me absorbing one my very first solid football memories on that play... I was sad.. lol..

I was only 15 when that game happened but I will never forget that hit. Joe was just laying there, just crazy times. Athlete's started to get so much bigger and faster around the mid 80's compared to the other decades that it was scary. In today's game if a QB had to play under the 80's rules they either better be mobile or have a quick release otherwise it would be bad haha .

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32 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Remember when Jim Burt for the Giants just creamed Montana in the NFC Title Game. I thought Joe was dead and no penalty was called. Joe was out for the game.

For anyone wanting to re-visit that hit.

 

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12 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

For anyone wanting to re-visit that hit.

 

Just brutal. And recalling now we got to watch the Giants party it up before any replay of how bad the hit was got shown.

That ish is mean, meaner than most of what we see today. 

Given how important QB's are to the game, I'm not really sorry that, that part of the game is gone now, even though the old clips are still pretty intense. 

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1 minute ago, The Fish said:

Just brutal. And recalling now we got to watch the Giants party it up before any replay of how bad the hit was got shown.

That ish is mean, meaner than most of what we see today. 

Given how important QB's are to the game, I'm not really sorry that, that part of the game is gone now, even though the old clips are still pretty intense. 

Yeah that was a normal hit back then lmao . Madden even said after the play it wasn't dirty haha 

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I wonder if Sports Science could estimate which era hits harder.  I’m guessing this era does. Athletes tend to become bigger, faster and more skilled as the game evolves. Doesn’t change that those 80s players were tough and hit hard..:they were pro athletes.  

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21 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I wonder if Sports Science could estimate which era hits harder.  I’m guessing this era does. Athletes tend to become bigger, faster and more skilled as the game evolves. Doesn’t change that those 80s players were tough and hit hard..:they were pro athletes.  

I think todays hits are less impactful. The newer rules put in the game lowers reckless plays. 

Just my take :dunno:

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50 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think todays hits are less impactful. The newer rules put in the game lowers reckless plays. 

Just my take :dunno:

I feel today’s hits are harder but cleaner if that’s a thing.  I do see instances where defenders pull up tho. It’s hard to judge bc more athletic defenders are tackling more athletic offensive players. I need to look into it more but I would think QBs are bigger and stronger now.  I think I saw Wentz is 6’5” and 237.   That’s a huge man.  Google said Montana was 6’2” 205lbs.  Either way it’s a hard thing to judge.  

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2 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I wonder if Sports Science could estimate which era hits harder.  I’m guessing this era does. Athletes tend to become bigger, faster and more skilled as the game evolves. Doesn’t change that those 80s players were tough and hit hard..:they were pro athletes.  

I think rosters 1-53 as a whole today are bigger, stronger, and faster than compared to the 80's but there were a lot of 80's/90's players that were just as big, strong, and fast as todays players believe it or not. Here are a list of names that would dominate today that played back then:

1. Lawrence Taylor (LB) - Best defensive player ever

2. Derrick Thomas (LB) - Fastest LB I have ever seen by the way

3. Mike Singletary (LB)

4. Reggie White (DE) - just as big, strong, and fast as anyone today

5. Bruce Smith (DE) - Just as big, strong, and fast as anyone today

6. Deion Sanders (CB) - Faster than anyone today

7. Darrell Green (CB) - Faster than anyone today

8. Mike Haynes (CB) - Could cover anyone today

9. Ronnie Lott (SS) - Best Safety ever

10. William Perry (DT) - 300 pounds of brute

 

On Offense:

1. I could mention guys like Anthony Munoz (OL), Joe Jacoby (OL) Jerry Rice (WR), Walter Payton (RB), Barry Sanders (RB), Eric Dickerson (RB), and Emmitt Smith (RB) so it is comical to think athlete's now are better than they were back then. QB's back then like Montana, Young, Elway, Aikman, and Marino were unreal as well.

 

The whole Dallas Cowboys O.Line in 1995 averaged 320 pounds across the board. Nate Newton was at 335 lol. There are smaller O.Line's in today's game on average.

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree, I think the same thing. I have no doubt that would be called today.

They tend to favor QBs now when its a close call.  I think they would say unnecessary roughness or something without much explanation.

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Just now, BlackTiger said:

They tend to favor QBs now when its a close call.  I think they would say unnecessary roughness or something without much explanation.

Especially with it being Joe, I agree. It looked sort of clean (just a brutal hit) but he did lower the helmet barely and Joe just got the ball off as he was getting hit. I can picture a REF throwing a flag on that in today's game almost every time.

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52 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think rosters 1-53 as a whole today are bigger, stronger, and faster than compared to the 80's but there were a lot of 80's/90's players that were just as big, strong, and fast as todays players believe it or not. Here are a list of names that would dominate today that played back then:

1. Lawrence Taylor (LB) - Best defensive player ever

2. Derrick Thomas (LB) - Fastest LB I have ever seen by the way

3. Mike Singletary (LB)

4. Reggie White (DE) - just as big, strong, and fast as anyone today

5. Bruce Smith (DE) - Just as big, strong, and fast as anyone today

6. Deion Sanders (CB) - Faster than anyone today

7. Darrell Green (CB) - Faster than anyone today

8. Mike Haynes (CB) - Could cover anyone today

9. Ronnie Lott (SS) - Best Safety ever

10. William Perry (DT) - 300 pounds of brute

 

On Offense:

1. I could mention guys like Anthony Munoz (OL), Joe Jacoby (OL) Jerry Rice (WR), Walter Payton (RB), Barry Sanders (RB), Eric Dickerson (RB), and Emmitt Smith (RB) so it is comical to think athlete's now are better than they were back then. QB's back then like Montana, Young, Elway, Aikman, and Marino were unreal as well.

 

The whole Dallas Cowboys O.Line in 1995 averaged 320 pounds across the board. Nate Newton was at 335 lol. There are smaller O.Line's in today's game on average.

 

 

 

 


There is no debate that every decade has several players that could play in any era. 

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34 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:


There is no debate that every decade has several players that could play in any era. 

Very true but I didn't want to write a book regarding how many players were just as big, strong, fast back in the 80's/90's as today's players. I just listed a handful but I could list 100 more if I wanted to. I think once the 80's hit the athlete took off, is today's technology better of course but a team like the 1985 Bears or 1995 Cowboys would probably beat most teams today. Can't say the same about the 72 Dolphins because yeah the drop off is noticeable there = overall Wt and speed on the roster.

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On 2/18/2021 at 4:01 PM, Thebrashandthebold said:

You can also add me to the list that believe if Peyton had stayed he would not have taken all of the punishment that Luck did behind that offensive line. The decision making and throwing speed was just to great for that. Luck wouldn't get rid of the ball and he never did learn to go to a "check down receiver". He just stood there and he got hammered.

Your posts are too brash and bold for my tastes, but I'll support this portion. 

 

There was a distinct difference in how fast Peyton got rid of the ball and how slowly Luck did.  Of course PM had a different offensive style, part of which he took the lead in designing however.  Not sure Luck ever contributed that much to the design of the O.

 

I remember early PM used to say that he had a clock in his head.  After so many seconds passed, he figured he was going to get sacked and looked to dump off or get rid of the ball.  Not even a pressure thing, it was an elapsed time thing.

 

Luck didn't dump off.  Off course, his RBs were not really the dump off kind.  TRich and Gore were more power runners...after the Pep Hamilton influence impacted the team.... I think Ballard and Ahmed Bradshaw were better dump off RBs.  PM had Rhodes and Addai.

 

But I agree with your overall point, I think I know what it is.  As good as Luck was, he never seemed to evolve much over his career in the area of protecting himself.  If you equate that with football smarts, I'm not going to disagree.  Also, I think he seemed less interested in adapting the offense to take care of himself better.  He seemed to kinda go with whatever the coaching was.  PM would not do that.

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I think QB's like Peyton and Brady would've been great in the 80's and 90's as well (Peyton was in 1999) simply because they have quick releases like Marino had. Marino was only sacked 10 times in 1984 because of his release. Back then hits like Burt gave Montana were routine though so it would've been interesting to see how Peyton or Brady would react with that happening a few times a season. That was brutal.

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2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Very true but I didn't want to write a book regarding how many players were just as big, strong, fast back in the 80's/90's as today's players. I just listed a handful but I could list 100 more if I wanted to. I think once the 80's hit the athlete took off, is today's technology better of course but a team like the 1985 Bears or 1995 Cowboys would probably beat most teams today. Can't say the same about the 72 Dolphins because yeah the drop off is noticeable there = overall Wt and speed on the roster.


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/index7255.html?p=493

 

Here is a link that shows to 2006.  Most position groups are getting bigger.  I’m sure great teams can stand the test of time and compete and win against modern teams.  However, I still think athletes are bigger, faster and stronger than those of the 80s and 90s. Athletes now have much more access to better training and film study.  I won’t say who would win bc that’s just a guess but I think these guys now would be physically fine if not have a slight edge.   

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4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Especially with it being Joe, I agree. It looked sort of clean (just a brutal hit) but he did lower the helmet barely and Joe just got the ball off as he was getting hit. I can picture a REF throwing a flag on that in today's game almost every time.

I respectfully disagree. I have seen many similar hits with the new rules not get flagged. Only Brady gets that flagged.

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2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think QB's like Peyton and Brady would've been great in the 80's and 90's as well (Peyton was in 1999) simply because they have quick releases like Marino had. Marino was only sacked 10 times in 1984 because of his release. Back then hits like Burt gave Montana were routine though so it would've been interesting to see how Peyton or Brady would react with that happening a few times a season. That was brutal.


I think there’s little doubt that the GREATS of today would’ve great in any era...   any time... in any generation. 
 

But the rules were much harder...   offense was more difficult.   Rules favored the defense...   and QBs could get hit and hit hard.  I think Brady would’ve been great back then, but he absolutely would NOT lasted 20 years.   He would’ve been beaten down much sooner. 
 

Also...  there were fewer teams...  no free agency...   a greater concentration of talent. 
Perhaps only this NE incredible run can compare to what the Steelers did..  what the 49ers did...   what the Skins did...  what the Cowboys did...  heck, what Buffalo did...  what Oakland did...  what Minnesota did. 
 

The game AND the NFL were completely different way back then. 

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13 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Players are bigger and faster today. Physics tell you that hits are harder. I am honestly surprised that one could think differently. 

Really? 

Cloths line hits are not allowed anymore.

Hits on what are perceived on defenseless players are not allowed.

Head slapping is not allowed. 

Chop blocking is not allowed.

Hitting a QB high OR low is not allowed. Even touching a QBs helmet is a penalty. 

The rule changes have made kick offs and punt returns a lot less physical. 

The players are bigger and stronger but the game itself is a lot less violent. 

 

 

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