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"If you're in in March, you need to be in for the entire season"


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11 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

Manning is an all-time great. One of the very best, bar none.  
 

However, after 2011, Manning would’ve been DESTROYED behind those porous lines of the Grigson era.  I remember vividly thinking at the time, thank goodness for Luck, for as great as Manning was, due to lack of mobility, there is just NO way he could’ve thrived with the post 2011 Colts like the physically gifted Luck was able to. 

 

After Luck’s comeback of the year, had he been physically (& mentally) right, Luck would’ve been back on a HOF trajectory.  As a fan, it was just an uber disappointing punch to the gut, the timing of which exasperated the shock. 
 

If he were to return, that would be so amazing. Has anybody ever won comeback player of the year twice?  Buuuut, I am well aware that we are, at best, talking a 0.001% chance of the fantasy becoming reality.  Until the Colts deal for Wentz or finalize some other QB option, people are welcome to dream. 
 

As for JMV, based on the tone he expressed as reported in this thread, it’s kind of really low life to term it like he did.  It’s all great to rave about Manning’s fire and commitment and to say he was without peer, but why even bring Luck into it?  Just kind of low. 

Nope, Manning would have  neutralized the O-line with his quick release. He was the fastest shooter in the west. 

 

Luck took a long time to get rid of the ball.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/qbs-in-focus-time-to-throw

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The disrespect Luck gets from fans is awful. He did a lot with the garbage around him and some fans act betrayed.    The man made a choice choosing his health and family over a game.  

I'll be honest.   I was very upset with Andrew when the news first came out.   I was livid (also a little drunk)   Then when I saw his press conference and listened to him I understood it.    He is a

He's a wuss. We aren't talking about concussions here. Nobody would question him if it was. He didn't want to rehab a strained calf and quit two weeks before the opening game .Good grief, nobody does

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5 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Nope, Manning would have  neutralized the O-line with his quick release. He was the fastest shooter in the west. 

 

Luck took a long time to get rid of the ball.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/qbs-in-focus-time-to-throw

I agree about Manning’s quick release, but based on what I saw, not even his quick release would’ve saved him.  He was already under siege before his missed year and it was far worse than anything he had before faced. 
 

I mean, it’s all now conjecture at this point, but I know what I saw and my opinion at the time is as it is now.  No way an aging Manning with a questionable arm coming off of his injury year could’ve survived on the near talentless Colts that Luck somehow saved. 

And remember, it was the new regime  

 

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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You really think all Luck had was a strained calf?   You think a strained calf wouldn’t heal between February and late August?   More than six months?   Luck described himself as being in constant great pain.  Does that sound like just a strained calf to you?  Really? 
 

Come on now....

You really think that many (most?) Football players are not in constant pain through out the season? It is just part of the sport, which is why people call him soft relative to other football players, not average joe's. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jan/15/in-nfl-playing-through-pain-comes-with-territory

 

Was his last injury (apparently, the last straw) actually ever disclosed?  

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10 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

I agree about Manning’s quick release, but based on what I saw, not even his quick release would’ve saved him.  He was already under siege before his missed year and it was far worse than anything he had before faced. 
 

I mean, it’s all now conjecture at this point, but I know what I saw and my opinion at the time is as it is now.  No way an aging Manning with a questionable arm coming off of his injury year could’ve survived on the near talentless Colts that Luck somehow saved. 

And remember, it was the new regime  

 

Were they really all that devoid of talent, though? They won a lot more games than people would have predicted when Luck was out, initially. In 2013 Mathis was a beast, creating a pretty decent pas rush. Wayne was still playing great the first two years. TY was playing great. Ahmad Bradshaw was a nice edition when he was not hurt. Vontae Davis was playing great in 2013 - 2014. Idk. I think the lack of talent narrative of those Colts is a little overstated. Just a little. 

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8 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

You really think that many (most?) Football players are not in constant pain through out the season? It is just part of the sport, which is why people call him soft relative to other football players, not average joe's. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jan/15/in-nfl-playing-through-pain-comes-with-territory

 

Was his last injury (apparently, the last straw) actually ever disclosed?  

No, it wasn’t disclosed beyond a lower leg injury.   Not that I’m aware of.

 

Which is why I wrote in the first paragraph of my recent Luck Post that Luck screwed up the end of his career.  That in his quest for  privacy he left Colts fans confused and angry.   So confused and angry that it exists today, a year and a half later. 
 

And to answer your question, no, I don’t think what Luck was going thru is the same as all players.  Not even close. 
 

I’ve interviewed hundreds of NFL players and all talk about the violence and pain after a game or season.  But few — a small handful — talk about constant pain for four straight years as Luck did. 

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I like JMV for the most part but he sounds a little perturbed with Andrew here. Most people say there is no chance that Andrew will come back and give it a 0% chance. I say there is always a chance but it is highly doubtful. I will put my guess at there is a 20% chance he comes back. 20% is still bad but here is my reasoning behind at least giving it 20%, he is probably fully healed and healthy now and Irsay said the door is still open. 

 

Luck was never going to be as great as Peyton, nobody was better Peyton in reality. Maybe Tom Brady and Joe Montana that is about it, even that is debatable. Luck still had 4 very good/borderline great years (2012-2014, 2018). His 2014 season was solid great. At worse he was a very good QB for this franchise much like Bert Jones was.

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When u r done....u r done. U don't owe anyone anything. He woke up one day and knew it wasn't there anymore. Had a boss who did the same thing. Wished thrm luck and knew they hadn't been happy for awhile. Time for a new chapter

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29 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I like JMV for the most part but he sounds a little perturbed with Andrew here. Most people say there is no chance that Andrew will come back and give it a 0% chance. I say there is always a chance but it is highly doubtful. I will put my guess at there is a 20% chance he comes back. 20% is still bad but here is my reasoning behind at least giving it 20%, he is probably fully healed and healthy now and Irsay said the door is still open. 

 

Luck was never going to be as great as Peyton, nobody was better Peyton in reality. Maybe Tom Brady and Joe Montana that is about it, even that is debatable. Luck still had 4 very good/borderline great years (2012-2014, 2018). His 2014 season was solid great. At worse he was a very good QB for this franchise much like Bert Jones was.

I truly beleive that if Luck would have had Polian as a GM, he would have been greater. Just personal opinion

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7 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

Some fans put players so high on a pedestal that they tend to overreact when they decide to retire. We can all agree that the timing was rough but to call a player a wuss after having to deal with injuries thanks to the ineptitude of building an OL seems a bit much.

 

God forbid he chose what's best for him. That's all that matters in the end.

 

The oline sucked. No doubt. But Andrew's style of play contributed equally. 

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12 hours ago, chad72 said:

If you are comparing Peyton and Andrew Luck, then Peyton was a cut above, no doubt, w.r.t QB play and reading blitzes etc. but if you are purely looking at injuries, Peyton was way smarter, much like Brady, to avoid the big hits while Luck put himself in harm's way a bit more due to his playing style and a combination of the OL and type of offense run.

 

Peyton in 2008, did fight through his first major injury, with his knee bursa sac issues, fought through it and came out ahead eventually. Maybe that does factor into people's "didn't quit" perception though the reality was Luck's injuries were far greater in comparison. Folks need to take that into account, IMO. If it took Luck 10 years since being drafted to get his first major injury like Peyton did in 2008, we would be sitting pretty now.

Lucks last two injuries were also self inflicted away from football. Via a snowboard. 

7 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I like JMV for the most part but he sounds a little perturbed with Andrew here. Most people say there is no chance that Andrew will come back and give it a 0% chance. I say there is always a chance but it is highly doubtful. I will put my guess at there is a 20% chance he comes back. 20% is still bad but here is my reasoning behind at least giving it 20%, he is probably fully healed and healthy now and Irsay said the door is still open. 

 

Luck was never going to be as great as Peyton, nobody was better Peyton in reality. Maybe Tom Brady and Joe Montana that is about it, even that is debatable. Luck still had 4 very good/borderline great years (2012-2014, 2018). His 2014 season was solid great. At worse he was a very good QB for this franchise much like Bert Jones was.

https://www.nfl.com/news/jim-irsay-former-colts-qb-andrew-luck-more-retired-now-than-he-was-in-2019

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

I've been fan of sports teams from around the world, but I can confidently say Indy media is the worst bar none. What a disgrace.

Not even close. 

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13 hours ago, IndyEric07 said:

 

Dont think I agree! Yes, Peyton was an all around smarter player that Luck, but Luck was one of the best I have ever seen when it came to avoiding defenders and making 1 or 2 miss in the pocket! He got hit and hurt too much scrambling since he never gave up on a run! 

 

You pretty much said what I said in terms of Luck putting himself in harm's way more often due to his playing style. He definitely could have been smarter about that, that is a fact. I am not dissing Luck here, just pointing the obvious.

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9 hours ago, rockywoj said:

I agree about Manning’s quick release, but based on what I saw, not even his quick release would’ve saved him.  He was already under siege before his missed year and it was far worse than anything he had before faced. 
 

I mean, it’s all now conjecture at this point, but I know what I saw and my opinion at the time is as it is now.  No way an aging Manning with a questionable arm coming off of his injury year could’ve survived on the near talentless Colts that Luck somehow saved. 

And remember, it was the new regime  

 

 

True. However, there were teams willing to give up their entire draft for Andrew Luck. Those bounty of picks would have replenished our cupboards but we would have had to plan for life after Peyton anyways since we did not know if he was going to make a comeback from his nerve issues. 

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6 hours ago, Stephen said:

Some people  will continue  to hate Luck until we find stability at qb.

 

"Hate" is a strong word, probably resent might be a better one, IMO. Resentment only for the timing, not for anything else, to be honest. Once you come to terms with it, that too shall pass. I don't resent or hate Luck, I have always loved him, just thought he took shots like Big Ben did early on in his career but with lesser talent around him than Big Ben had to start his career.

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These haters need to get a grip.  Luck quit when he was done playing.  It’s fair and very respectable.  Doesn’t matter that it was right before the season. Teams cut players every year before the start of the season and then they have to scramble to find a new job. Also, I believe Luck let the team know before he was done and the higher ups asked him to hang around the team to see if that would change his mind.  Yes, I would love to have Luck at QB and win some SBs.  But the guy was tired of working in this field and made a career change.  Happens all the time.  It’s not selfish and it couldn’t have been handled better.  Anyone can quit a job whenever they want to and it’s ok.  

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12 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

I think what JMV meant was, if Luck retired months before, rather than a week before the season, the Colts would've had legitimate chances to either draft a QB, trade for a QB, or acquire one via free agency. 

 

Instead, they had to roll with Jacoby and they went 7-9.  Furthermore, every indication was that this was something that Luck had mulled for a while.  He held ongoing talks with the organization. 

 

Regardless of where one stands on the issue of how/when Luck retired, that part is factually correct (i.e., that it would've been easier to find a replacement had he retired much earlier in the league year).

 

Mapping out your franchise and personnel isn't a day-to-day process, it's much more long-term than that.

 

To deny that the timing had a monumental negative impact on the building of the team would be factually incorrect.  And that's a separate issue from the fact that Luck is certainly entitled to do whatever he feels is best for him.

 

If that makes sense.

 

Exactly!!! The timing put us behind the 8 ball significantly that even if Luck had told management he was retiring after the draft, they could have had that element of surprise during the draft to get his successor and get going.  Instead, they had to wait till the next draft, and after a few trials and errors, and another retirement (Rivers), here we are again. 

 

Heck, the fact that we are talking even right now with Irsay dangling that carrot of a Luck comeback because he is always leaving that door open, means that the management would have been fine with him sitting out another year should it be necessary for his body and mind.

 

I love Andrew and respect his decision 100%, he had the right to walk away absolutely. But he did botch the timing of his retirement for the franchise that we all love, that is no secret. Having said that, the management trying to delay his decision probably backfired too because they felt they could change his mind.

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I was at the game he was working out in the end zone. He did several cone drills and he lower leg seemed fine. After he was done he was laughing with the guys. I was also there the night he everyone found out he was retiring. He should have played that season or at least give it a shot. The way and timing will always make me angry

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2 hours ago, csmopar said:

Lucks last two injuries were also self inflicted away from football. Via a snowboard. 

https://www.nfl.com/news/jim-irsay-former-colts-qb-andrew-luck-more-retired-now-than-he-was-in-2019

I don't really believe everything I hear, I know you don't either. Irsay really doesn't know in reality eventhough he is the owner. By saying this too, If Luck did come back then it wouldn't make him look bad. Had Irsay said, yeah there is a good chance he could come back and he didn't, he would look bad. So far not 1 person in the media has been right either about us. Most were saying Matt Stafford was a shoe in here, how did that turn out? I also don't buy that the Texans wouldn't trade us Watson because the Colts are in the same division. If the deal is right they would do it IMO.

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1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

Exactly!!! The timing put us behind the 8 ball significantly that even if Luck had told management he was retiring after the draft, they could have had that element of surprise during the draft to get his successor and get going.  Instead, they had to wait till the next draft, and after a few trials and errors, and another retirement (Rivers), here we are again. 

 

Heck, the fact that we are talking even right now with Irsay dangling that carrot of a Luck comeback because he is always leaving that door open, means that the management would have been fine with him sitting out another year should it be necessary for his body and mind.

 

I love Andrew and respect his decision 100%, he had the right to walk away absolutely. But he did botch the timing of his retirement for the franchise that we all love, that is no secret. Having said that, the management trying to delay his decision probably backfired too because they felt they could change his mind.

Probably the best or one of the best wordings on this entire topic since it happened.

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14 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

I think what JMV meant was, if Luck retired months before, rather than a week before the season, the Colts would've had legitimate chances to either draft a QB, trade for a QB, or acquire one via free agency. 

 

Instead, they had to roll with Jacoby and they went 7-9.  Furthermore, every indication was that this was something that Luck had mulled for a while.  He held ongoing talks with the organization. 

 

Regardless of where one stands on the issue of how/when Luck retired, that part is factually correct (i.e., that it would've been easier to find a replacement had he retired much earlier in the league year).

 

Mapping out your franchise and personnel isn't a day-to-day process, it's much more long-term than that.

 

To deny that the timing had a monumental negative impact on the building of the team would be factually incorrect.  And that's a separate issue from the fact that Luck is certainly entitled to do whatever he feels is best for him.

 

If that makes sense.

I agree if JMV said Luck should have retired well before the season started, it would be a valid and more sound argument. But I responded the way that I did to address the specific argument of "If you're in in March, you need to be in the entire season."  That statement does not make any sense for the reasons that I pointed out. It's not well thought out, so I did the thinking for JMV to show that it would not have mattered in the end.

 

As for how I see Luck's retirement, I think he was wrestling with the idea during his shoulder rehab in 2017. He mentioned that his rehab was long and tiring, and that it led him to a "dark" place. He mentioned that it led him to question his identity - Was he just football or something more outside of football? But he fought through it and had an amazing 2018 season. A season where we, as fans, could visibly see a joyous, happier Luck -- even after a defeat. He was having the time of his life with his teammates.

 

And then the mysterious lower leg injury. At first it didn't look like it was a big deal, but it continued to linger. I'm sure that he thought he could fight through it and be ready in time for the season to start. But it grew worse and became more mysterious as diagnosing the injury became more and more difficult.  I have to think that Luck told himself that if he ever had to go through another in-season rehab, he would instead protect himself (no pain killing injections in order to keep playing while putting himself in harms way) and retire from football. That's what led to the bad timing. Luck and the entire organization kept hoping that the injury would get better. They kept pushing forward, until there was no more fight left in Luck and the joy of football was instead replaced with despair, which unfortunately for everyone, was a week before the start of the regular season. The timing was horrible but the intent of getting ready for the season was an honest one by all. 

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2 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

These haters need to get a grip.  Luck quit when he was done playing.  It’s fair and very respectable.  Doesn’t matter that it was right before the season. Teams cut players every year before the start of the season and then they have to scramble to find a new job. Also, I believe Luck let the team know before he was done and the higher ups asked him to hang around the team to see if that would change his mind.  Yes, I would love to have Luck at QB and win some SBs.  But the guy was tired of working in this field and made a career change.  Happens all the time.  It’s not selfish and it couldn’t have been handled better.  Anyone can quit a job whenever they want to and it’s ok.  

 

I think the term selfish gets a bad wrap. Theres nothing wrong with being selfish especially when it isnt an overwhelming issue. A lot of people are way too giving and not selfish enough and they lead a life that is overwhelmingly unfulfilling for them. 

 

Andrew has every right to be selfish. Just like you are me. Now if all you are is selfish it then becomes a problem.

 

If Andrew continued to not be selfish, and winds up having a life without quality, he would hate that decision. 

 

Selfishness can be good or bad. 

 

I hate that Andrew retired right when we had arguably the best GM in football finally taking strides on building this team and a competent coaching staff. 

 

I am selfishly upset by how that effected my favorite sports team. 

 

Nothing wrong with that. I think we should all be ok with the duality of selfishness, and we should all be okay with those who are upset by his decision. I get both ends of the spectrum. 

 

... I used to donate plasma twice a week for a prolonged period. When I first got there i didnt mind needles and now i hate them. I have also been through physical therapy. The repeated pain you feel becomes mental pain, and I am convinced this is what caused Andrew to make his decision. 

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I hate to become a Luck defender because I always thought he was way overhyped and overrated and frankly would not have made a pimple on Peyton Manning's butt. However, I was under the impression that Luck informed the Colts that he was considering retirement in the off season and they convinced him to come to camp and try to work it out. He did that and for him, it didn't work out. The Colts were never going to get to a Super Bowl with Andrew Luck, he just didn't have it in him. It took thirty years to get to a SB before Manning. It may take another thirty years after him.

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17 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I think the term selfish gets a bad wrap. Theres nothing wrong with being selfish especially when it isnt an overwhelming issue. A lot of people are way too giving and not selfish enough and they lead a life that is overwhelmingly unfulfilling for them. 

 

Andrew has every right to be selfish. Just like you are me. Now if all you are is selfish it then becomes a problem.

 

If Andrew continued to not be selfish, and winds up having a life without quality, he would hate that decision. 

 

Selfishness can be good or bad. 

 

I hate that Andrew retired right when we had arguably the best GM in football finally taking strides on building this team and a competent coaching staff. 

 

I am selfishly upset by how that effected my favorite sports team. 

 

Nothing wrong with that. I think we should all be ok with the duality of selfishness, and we should all be okay with those who are upset by his decision. I get both ends of the spectrum. 

 

... I used to donate plasma twice a week for a prolonged period. When I first got there i didnt mind needles and now i hate them. I have also been through physical therapy. The repeated pain you feel becomes mental pain, and I am convinced this is what caused Andrew to make his decision. 

Thank you!!   I started to say something similar to this in my original post but didn’t know how to word it. I think being self serving to a point is a very good thing.  I do understand why people are upset he retired, I’m still upset.  However, for people to say he should have done it differently moves into the negative realm of selfishness.  Quitting a job is a very personal decision that only that individual can decide.  What people forget that it wasn’t a negotiation, he left on his terms and I accept the way he did it.  
 

Letting us know in March or August doesn’t matter.  Ballard wasn’t shelling out picks to move up in the draft. He was in prime position with the 13th pick last year and he didn’t trade up(getting Buckner was still heck of a move). Luck had no obligation to retire in a way that was best for the Colts. Teams hardly ever show the same when moving on from a player.  Look at Peyton Manning, he didn’t get to leave on his terms...we made the choice for him.  Luck quit his job...there is never a “good” way to quit.  Just pull the band aid and do it.  The timing will never be right. 

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5 hours ago, stitches said:

I've been fan of sports teams from around the world, but I can confidently say Indy media is the worst bar none. What a disgrace.

 

JMV would probably be the first to admit he's a pretty simple dude - not a lot of critical thinking or nuanced takes.

 

The Colts are by far the #1 sports story in Indianapolis.  I just wish we could get some real football people on the radio.  Dakich is great, if you're interested in 1979 Big Ten basketball while JMV gets much more excited talking about high school basketball or Johnny Bench than he does anything Colts or NFL related.  

 

As to his take on Manning and Luck, if I knew both would have identical situations - same team, same coach, same health, etc. - I might take Luck over Manning.  Manning would be more consistent and efficient.   You would win more regular season games with Manning, but Luck had 'it."

 

Unfortunately Manning played on extremely flawed teams while Luck played on horrible teams.  As an organization, you should have gotten about 6 rings out of two of them.  Instead, you got 1.  

 

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17 hours ago, chad72 said:

If you are comparing Peyton and Andrew Luck, then Peyton was a cut above, no doubt, w.r.t QB play and reading blitzes etc. but if you are purely looking at injuries, Peyton was way smarter, much like Brady, to avoid the big hits while Luck put himself in harm's way a bit more due to his playing style and a combination of the OL and type of offense run.

 

Peyton in 2008, did fight through his first major injury, with his knee bursa sac issues, fought through it and came out ahead eventually. Maybe that does factor into people's "didn't quit" perception though the reality was Luck's injuries were far greater in comparison. Folks need to take that into account, IMO. If it took Luck 10 years since being drafted to get his first major injury like Peyton did in 2008, we would be sitting pretty now.

So you are saying it was dumb Luck with his injuries?

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4 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

 

As to his take on Manning and Luck, if I knew both would have identical situations - same team, same coach, same health, etc. - I might take Luck over Manning.  Manning would be more consistent and efficient.   You would win more regular season games with Manning, but Luck had 'it."

 

 

 

There wouldn't even be a second thought.   I'd take Manning every time.  

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It's his life and he owed us nothing.  He had the right to choose when he retired.  That said, it did hurt the organization in terms of who the QB would be.  Had they known about Luck's retirement, the draft and offseason trades/signings could have been exponentially more beneficial.  Instead, Brissett came in as the starter, then Rivers (seemingly coming from a "win now" perspective) and although we improved under Rivers, we didn't get there.  

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1 hour ago, GwinnettColt said:

It's his life and he owed us nothing.  He had the right to choose when he retired.  That said, it did hurt the organization in terms of who the QB would be.  Had they known about Luck's retirement, the draft and offseason trades/signings could have been exponentially more beneficial.  Instead, Brissett came in as the starter, then Rivers (seemingly coming from a "win now" perspective) and although we improved under Rivers, we didn't get there.  


Not singling you out just continuing the conversation.  I do not see how Luck retiring earlier would have changed the draft much.  The QBs taken in the first round were Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones and Dwayne Haskins.  Drew Lock was taken towards the top of the 2nd and he isnt really panning our either. The notable free agents were Teddy Bridgewater and Nick Foles.  We would be in the exact same situation as we are in now but most likely with one less playoff appearance If we signed a free agent. I doubt Ballard would have traded up for either Jones or Haskins bc he didn’t trade for Tua or Herbert and he was within striking distance at #13.  I think the Colts would have rolled with Brissett regardless and then signed Rivers for one year.  Luck retiring in March over August would probably not of changed much. 

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15 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

Nope, Manning would have  neutralized the O-line with his quick release. He was the fastest shooter in the west. 

 

Luck took a long time to get rid of the ball.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/qbs-in-focus-time-to-throw

A lot of that was coaching scheme.  Longer developing routes and throws downfield.  We've discussed it on here time and again, but it's notable.  Luck didn't help matters constantly fighting for every conceivable yard instead of protecting himself, give up a yard or two early and just slide.  Those two things - coryell style offense and Luck not sliding - were the primary components his body betrayed him.  I don't think anyone would have heartburn over his retirement if he had done it in a timely fashion.  Maybe people wonder "what could have been," but that's a legacy Luck invited with such an early retirement, and he'll forever be known for giving the game up just as the rest of the Colts was building to the point it was seen as a super bowl contender.

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 The player and person can be separated. Its perfectly fine to do that. 

 

IMO, Andrew Luck the football player is a gigantic disappointment. 

Andrew Luck the person seems like a good guy and I'm happy for him. 

 

Similarly, I can like the songs Thriller, Bad and Billie Jean and be disgusted by the allegations vs MJ the person.

Lets not assume a person thats furious with the football player is wishing terrible things on Andrew the person.

 

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18 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

I personally didn't interpret JMV's comment that way.

 

Both things can be true: 1) Luck was (and always will be) 100% entitled to look after his best interests.  2) The manner in which Luck made his decision negatively impacted the organization.

 

They are separate lines of thinking.  I'm happy for Andrew, but I can't deny that the way it went down negatively impacted the Colts.  It negatively impacted his teammates as well.  But even they can still separate their admiration for their friend and their awareness that his decision likely impacted (for some, negatively) their careers.

 

For example, T.Y. Hilton has never been the same production-wise.  If Luck is still here, there is almost no way he wouldn't be re-signed this offseason.  Irrespective of that fact, T.Y. loves Andrew.  Perfect example of how both lines of thinking can exist without being disrespectful to Andrew.

this for me is the main point too: the timing was just bad for everyone involved, and would've been so much better back in February or March (during free agency and before the draft) instead of pre-season

 

IMO there's no denying it set the timetable back, but one could argue so did some of Grigson's decisions, and so perhaps have some of Ballard's decisions, and as a result that's just where the team/franchise finds itself. If the next response does turn out to be Wentz, so be it--the success or failure of that move will rest entirely with Reich and Ballard, not with any former Colt players, coaches or GMs.

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44 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:


Not singling you out just continuing the conversation.  I do not see how Luck retiring earlier would have changed the draft much.  The QBs taken in the first round were Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones and Dwayne Haskins.  Drew Lock was taken towards the top of the 2nd and he isnt really panning our either. The notable free agents were Teddy Bridgewater and Nick Foles.  We would be in the exact same situation as we are in now but most likely with one less playoff appearance If we signed a free agent. I doubt Ballard would have traded up for either Jones or Haskins bc he didn’t trade for Tua or Herbert and he was within striking distance at #13.  I think the Colts would have rolled with Brissett regardless and then signed Rivers for one year.  Luck retiring in March over August would probably not of changed much. 

You made some great points.  It may not have changed much but there would have been more options.  

I think the "Andrew is coming back" rumors will happen for this season and probably next, but not much further. 

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35 minutes ago, poilucelt said:

this for me is the main point too: the timing was just bad for everyone involved, and would've been so much better back in February or March (during free agency and before the draft) instead of pre-season

 

IMO there's no denying it set the timetable back, but one could argue so did some of Grigson's decisions, and so perhaps have some of Ballard's decisions, and as a result that's just where the team/franchise finds itself. If the next response does turn out to be Wentz, so be it--the success or failure of that move will rest entirely with Reich and Ballard, not with any former Colt players, coaches or GMs.

What options at QB that year would have been so much better? The draft had Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins and Drew Lock. Free agency was Teddy Bridgewater, Nick Foles and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Trade market was Josh Rosen.  That’s a terrible year beyond Kyler Murray(he went #1) and maybe Fitzpatrick(depends if he plays like Fitzmagic or Fitztragic) to need a QB.  Luck retiring when he did was a blessing in disguise Bc we avoided all of those players and their contracts. 

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5 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

What options at QB that year would have been so much better? The draft had Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins and Drew Lock. Free agency was Teddy Bridgewater, Nick Foles and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Trade market was Josh Rosen.  That’s a terrible year beyond Kyler Murray(he went #1) and maybe Fitzpatrick(depends if he plays like Fitzmagic or Fitztragic) to need a QB.  Luck retiring when he did was a blessing in disguise Bc we avoided all of those players and their contracts. 

Don't think I said QB options that year would've been better. I simply indicated that by AL retiring earlier Ballard might've at least had an opportunity to do some things differently in FA and/or the draft that could have left the team in a better position in subsequent seasons and drafts. Pretty uncontroversial observation IMO.

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36 minutes ago, poilucelt said:

Don't think I said QB options that year would've been better. I simply indicated that by AL retiring earlier Ballard might've at least had an opportunity to do some things differently in FA and/or the draft that could have left the team in a better position in subsequent seasons and drafts. Pretty uncontroversial observation IMO.

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1 hour ago, Mitch Connors said:

 The player and person can be separated. Its perfectly fine to do that. 

 

IMO, Andrew Luck the football player is a gigantic disappointment. 

Andrew Luck the person seems like a good guy and I'm happy for him. 

 

Similarly, I can like the songs Thriller, Bad and Billie Jean and be disgusted by the allegations vs MJ the person.

Lets not assume a person thats furious with the football player is wishing terrible things on Andrew the person.

 

 

Well stated.

 

There is nothing wrong with fans having some resentment/disappointment over how this all ended. 

I have been a diehard of this team for over 30 years so seen a lot of highs and lows during my time.   The Luck retirement has to be the biggest franchise altering moment (in a negative way) that I can remember. 

 

It has been nearly 2-1/2 years since he announced his retirement and I still find the whole thing to be bizarre and surreal.  I mean there is truly no similar situation in NFL history (and probably wont be in future) for a young franchise QB with so many potential good years ahead of him to just to abruptly retire.  

 

Needless to say, Andrew Luck just like any other person making big life, career decisions should always make the best choice for him and his family.  

 

That being said, just my opinion here, Colts fans and media people who cover the team do not have to unequivocally fete him and can be critical of him in various different aspects of this which have been previously discussed on this and other threads.  The latter does not necessarily constitute a personal attack on him.  

 

I believe JMV first stated this immediately after Luck retired: but this is a unique situation where fans can essentially be on either side of the coin and both be justified.  

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22 hours ago, chad72 said:

If you are comparing Peyton and Andrew Luck, then Peyton was a cut above, no doubt, w.r.t QB play and reading blitzes etc. but if you are purely looking at injuries, Peyton was way smarter, much like Brady, to avoid the big hits while Luck put himself in harm's way a bit more due to his playing style and a combination of the OL and type of offense run.

 

Peyton in 2008, did fight through his first major injury, with his knee bursa sac issues, fought through it and came out ahead eventually. Maybe that does factor into people's "didn't quit" perception though the reality was Luck's injuries were far greater in comparison. Folks need to take that into account, IMO. If it took Luck 10 years since being drafted to get his first major injury like Peyton did in 2008, we would be sitting pretty now.

 

First, Peyton's worst OL he ever had was a far better line than Luck ever had.  Second, as you point out a bursa sac issue in the knee pales in comparison to a lacerated kidney (which Luck played through) and the other injuries Luck sustained.  Third, Peyton was an excellent commander at the line of scrimmage and was very good at reading defenses - his style of command was the first time anyone had ever seen a QB behave the way he did as a QB - but just because Luck didn't put on the same show doesn't mean he wasn't exceptional at reading defenses.  Not to take anything away from Peyton, but Luck was often running for his life almost before he had the ball in his hands, his OL was usually that bad.   Luck's style of play was different than Peyton's, that is for sure and he definitely probably should have learned to slide to avoid some big hits when he was scrambling, but he was also getting crushed in the pocket and was playing in an entirely different type of offense than Peyton (e.g., Arians' 'don't risk it, no biscuit' O required Luck to extend plays longer than Peyton/Tom Moore's O to take deep shots down the field).  In addition, Tom Moore was the O-coordinator with Indy from 1998-2008, then was heavily involved with the Colts in 2009 and 2010 -- (that's the first 13 years of Peyton's career playing with the same OC) -- Luck, on the other hand had 3 different OC's in his first 4 seasons (Arians, Pep, Pep, Pep/Chud) and when he came back from missing a year he had another system in place with Reich/Sirianni.  Finally, from all accounts I've heard (McAfee, Frank Gore, etc. on the player end and then all the media reports), Grigson had a completely dysfunctional organization (e.g., treating players poorly, forcing Pagano to play certain players who Grigs made bad investments in, initiating deflate gate, etc.) and unlike Polian, who successfully built a solid OL for Peyton and gave him tools he needed at RB, WR, TE to succeed, Grigson failed miserably (not that he didn't try) in giving Luck an OL or the proper weapons (e.g., T-Rich, DHB, Hakeem Nicks, Dorsett) to thrive and, for the most part, Luck thrived anyway.  

 

You throw all that stuff into the equation, plus Luck's injuries early in his career and I can see pretty easily why he didn't want to stick around.  Peyton had a HOF head coach for most of his career (and a solid, experienced one to start his career) as well as a HOF GM -- Irsay basically ran an experiment with Luck in hiring Grigs and Pagano (both first timers in lead roles) and unfortunately, that experiment ultimately failed Andrew Luck.

 

21 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

In my opinion this was much more then a injury for Luck. To me it was more mental and couldn’t get over it with the ankle. He sure looked like he could play. Just couldn’t get over the mental hurdle  and I think he had a hard time departimentalizing his life.

 

I'm really not sure about that.. Luck is about as mentally sharp as any player who has ever played in the NFL.  He had to seek out his own doctors after the Colts didn't properly figure out what the heck was going on with his shoulder...  they then misdiagnosed his ankle/calf injury for a pretty long time.  It sounds as though he had no idea if he was risking serious further injury playing on it and it doesn't sound like the Colts organization was giving him any confidence in an answer.

 

21 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

I personally didn't interpret JMV's comment that way.

 

Both things can be true: 1) Luck was (and always will be) 100% entitled to look after his best interests.  2) The manner in which Luck made his decision negatively impacted the organization.

 

They are separate lines of thinking.  I'm happy for Andrew, but I can't deny that the way it went down negatively impacted the Colts.  It negatively impacted his teammates as well.  But even they can still separate their admiration for their friend and their awareness that his decision likely impacted (for some, negatively) their careers.

 

For example, T.Y. Hilton has never been the same production-wise.  If Luck is still here, there is almost no way he wouldn't be re-signed this offseason.  Irrespective of that fact, T.Y. loves Andrew.  Perfect example of how both lines of thinking can exist without being disrespectful to Andrew.

 

TY has also been battling nagging injuries which have definitely been slowing him down.  He played 14 games in 2018 with Luck at the helm, only 10 games in 2019 and 15 in 2020... after missing only 2 games in his first 6 seasons and stringing seasons 4, 5, 6 together with 16 games played, he hasn't been able to play a full 16 games since and there have been numerous games in which he has played where he is noticeably gimpy.

 

I like TY, but even at his peak production he never performed like a true standout #1 WR (aside from 2016 when he had 91 receptions and 1,448 yards .. though 91 receptions had him tied for 10th most in the league).  He hasn't been able to go 16 games in 3 straight seasons... his small size makes him almost entirely reliant on speed/quickness/route running and there have been times over the past 3 years when he is playing at less than 100% and it's very noticeable that his play diminishing drastically when he's hobbled.

 

18 hours ago, Iron Colt said:

Oh please, his health was rehabbing a strained calf. Philip Rivers played at with a broken foot at 39 with NINE kids. Luck wasn't the only NFL player with kids. 

 

He played through a game with a ruptured kidney.......... please stop.

 

18 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

Nope, Manning would have  neutralized the O-line with his quick release. He was the fastest shooter in the west. 

 

Luck took a long time to get rid of the ball.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/qbs-in-focus-time-to-throw

 

See above... this comment is dumb.

 

18 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

No, it wasn’t disclosed beyond a lower leg injury.   Not that I’m aware of.

 

Which is why I wrote in the first paragraph of my recent Luck Post that Luck screwed up the end of his career.  That in his quest for  privacy he left Colts fans confused and angry.   So confused and angry that it exists today, a year and a half later. 
 

And to answer your question, no, I don’t think what Luck was going thru is the same as all players.  Not even close. 
 

I’ve interviewed hundreds of NFL players and all talk about the violence and pain after a game or season.  But few — a small handful — talk about constant pain for four straight years as Luck did. 

 

He didn't disclose his leg injury.. the Colts' organization did and they screwed it up many times.

H

17 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I like JMV for the most part but he sounds a little perturbed with Andrew here. Most people say there is no chance that Andrew will come back and give it a 0% chance. I say there is always a chance but it is highly doubtful. I will put my guess at there is a 20% chance he comes back. 20% is still bad but here is my reasoning behind at least giving it 20%, he is probably fully healed and healthy now and Irsay said the door is still open. 

 

Luck was never going to be as great as Peyton, nobody was better Peyton in reality. Maybe Tom Brady and Joe Montana that is about it, even that is debatable. Luck still had 4 very good/borderline great years (2012-2014, 2018). His 2014 season was solid great. At worse he was a very good QB for this franchise much like Bert Jones was.

 

Luck actually had the best rookie year of any QB ever and was well on his way to be greater than Peyton... that's a joke that he "was never going to be as great as Peyton." -- Luck by every metric was better than Peyton every year he played at that stage of his career (in fact he is the earliest to ever reach  4,000 yards and his first 3-4 years are the best ever to start a career -- he took a 2-14 team to11-5 as a Rookie.. Peyton was 3-13 as a Rookie). 

 

5 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I hate to become a Luck defender because I always thought he was way overhyped and overrated and frankly would not have made a pimple on Peyton Manning's butt. However, I was under the impression that Luck informed the Colts that he was considering retirement in the off season and they convinced him to come to camp and try to work it out. He did that and for him, it didn't work out. The Colts were never going to get to a Super Bowl with Andrew Luck, he just didn't have it in him. It took thirty years to get to a SB before Manning. It may take another thirty years after him.

 

Luck broke every one of Peyton's records at a younger age/playing career.  The only thing you can knock him on is he threw interceptions.  He was on his way to being to the point that Peyton wasn't a pimple on his butt.... dumb post. 

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