An Andrew Luck Post for Consideration.....

[NewColtsFan]

Apologies in advance, this will be long.   Can't be helped.

 

Since he retired, I have publicly stated I thought Andrew Luck mishandled his own retirement about as badly as possible.  His need for privacy led to him mishandle the end of his career.   So any hate that has boiled up I figure he brought upon himself.   When there are anti-Luck threads,  I mostly stay out of them.   And when I do join in, it's to make one post to set the record straight on some issue,  and then I leave the discussion.  

 

But in the past week or so, a new school of thought has surfaced that has caught my attention.   That Andrew Luck is soft, weak, lacked toughness, was privileged,  didn't work hard enough,  wasn't a good teammate,  and that he was a millionaire before he became a Colt so he had little incentive to stay in the game.   One of the things you learn as you get older is all people see the same thing differently.  What's obvious to one person is a mystery to another.   That's life.

 

But these new views that have surfaced, are, IMO,  so false,  so misinformed,  so 180 degrees opposite of reality,  that I thought I'd come here and nip them in the bud before they have a chance to grow and become accepted wisdom.

 

For starters:   About Luck's so-called lack of toughness....    anyone remember that for the first 4-5 years of his career,  Andrew Luck was the most hit quarterback in the entire NFL?   We used to talk about it here all the time.   The combination of sacks and hits was the highest for Luck, and I don't think there was a close second in that time.   There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing Luck getting blasted.   He typically got right back up and congratulated the defender on a good hit.

 

Anyone remember Luck being on the sidelines of the game in Tennessee in 2015, when he got patted on the chest by a teammate and Luck winced badly in pain?  Shoulder injury.   Later, the same year Luck suffered a torn abdominal muscle and kidney on a tough hit vs. Denver.   He was peeing blood.   He missed half the season.   The hits were beginning to take a toll.   

 

Anyone remember in 2016 when he played a good portion of that year with a sleeve on his left wrist?    More playing in pain.   He underwent surgery after that season for the shoulder injury from the previous season.    The guy played in bad pain for his team for years.

 

Do people remember the effort that Luck put in to trying to re-learn how to throw with his newly constructed shoulder?   In 2017,  he tried every approach, conventional and unconventional, including going to California to work with a baseball throwing coach, and to Europe to work with a shoulder specialist.   And for good measure, that was when the rumors started here about Luck and drugs which never turned into anything.   If you knew Luck at all,  you'd know how funny that idea really is.  He really is a Boy Scout.

 

Do people remember Luck playing the 2018 season, where at the start he clearly wasn't close to 100 percent.   He played and risked humiliating himself for the good of the team.   He played his way into better throwing condition.   He couldn't throw a Hail Mary early in the season on the last play vs. Philly in wk3,  but his arm got stronger during the course of the season and we went to the playoffs in Frank's first year.   Turned into Luck's best year.   Again, he's not even close to 100 percent,  but he plays for the good of the team.

 

And the idea that Luck was a millionaire before he was a Colt is supported by nothing.   His father was a career backup during the years when those guys weren't making millions.  Where did this money come from?   He wound earning roughly $100 Million in his career.   I don't think Daddy's money was ever an issue.  The moment Luck signed his rookie contract, he was financially set for Life.   When he signed his second contract, he was set for several lifetimes.   Luck earned his own money, he doesn't need anyone else's.

 

As for his retirement,  did it ever occur to anyone that Luck might've been ready to retire long before he did?  The first 6-7 months of 2019?   That perhaps the team encouraged him to take his time and see if his latest injury -- a mysterious lower leg injury, would get better?   People complain that Luck quit on the team right before the season started and how unforgivable that is.   Luck as a QB and a person, is driven to do the right thing.   He did few commercial endorsements in his career, turning most of them down.   He formed his own book club  for adults AND kids.   This is the guy who still has a flip-phone.  A guy who drives a Honda Accord.   A guy who bikes around Indy and lives in a downtown condo.   He gladly signs autographs to all who ask.   He's not a guy who's living the millionaire lifestyle. 

 

Luck not only doesn't throw teammates under the bus,  he takes the hits, the bullets, the bad publicity when the team does poorly.  He was a model teammate.  He's still friendly with all his teammates.   Luck was a first in, last out type of guy.   Never criticized by teammates or coaches or front office.    So, it strikes me as not inconceivable that the team knew all year long what was going on with Luck, encouraged him to take his time knowing that if Luck retired,  they were going to go with Brissett.  That doesn't seem unreasonable to consider.   A model teammate does not quit on his team just before the season.   Unless there's more to the story. 

 

The idea that Luck is soft, lacked toughness,  wasn't devoted to the game,  or was privileged is just wildly off base and has no actual evidence to support it.   At his retirement announcement, Luck said he had been in pain for four straight years.  Four.  Straight.  Years.  And more than just the normal football wear and tear.  Terrible debilitating pain.   That's why a Future Hall of Famer walks away early.   Not because of some wrongly perceived lack of any quality.

 

Apologies this post is so long.   But there's a great deal of misinformation out there to correct.   Thanks for reading.

 

[stitches]

To me it's funny how people who've never been hit in their lives, or hell hit by some of the most athletic 300 pound guys in the world would throw out qualifications like that. Now, don't get me wrong... I get the frustration with how Luck's career ended. And it put us in a really really REALLY cruddy situation. There is no two ways about it. It sucked! It was a hard blow to this franchise, it was a hard blow to me as a fan too, because it was Luck that made me a football and a Colts fan. And this team was getting on a trajectory for contention fast. But those qualifications are uncalled for and quite honestly stupid. Luck has battled through more pain and adversity in the league than most players could imagine possible. 

 

How can you call soft a player who risked his own health playing hurt and in pain in his throwing shoulder for 3 years? Let me repeat it because some people just don't get it - THREE YEARS with severe pain in his throwing shoulder that lead to him not even being able to practice... but he still played all those games... for your entertainment and for the good of the team. A player that suffered lacerated kidney and was peeing blood after the game and still finished that game to beat that that year's SB champion. A player that played with broken ribs, concussions and series of other untold more minor injuries...  And he was risking his health for all those years KNOWING he will have to run for his life behind one of the worst OLines in football and playing for a coaching staff that not only didn't mitigate that fact, but actively was throwing out game plans that made things worse. It's like they were actively trying to get him hurt. 

 

This is all nonsense. Privilleged and pampered my *... Luck was one of the most humble and non-attention seeking superstars you will ever see in any walk of life. He was everything you could ever wish from a franchise QB - exceptional talent, incredibly decent as a person, incredibly giving of his time and resources to the community, amazingly selfless with his teammates. Like @NewColtsFansaid - he would regularly take the blame for things he realistically had no blame for in order to deflect it from his teammates and he would always give credit and shine to his teammates even though for majority of his career he was surrounded by scrubs who would be out of the league in a year or two after leaving the Colts. 

 

The ending was ugly, but even with this ending IMO it shows that Luck was still fighting for his career. Do you really think he thought it would be optimal for himself, for the team, for ANYONE ... for him to go through off-season program, training camp trying to rehab and getting setbacks every step of the way, only announce his retirement 2 weeks before the start of the season? He was still trying to get back playing about 10 days before the announcement, when he suffered another setback with his injury. 

 

This whole thing is such a sad story of unfulfilled potential. One of the biggest wasted talents in the history of the league. If you are going to be blaming anyone for how this thing unfolded you have set your eyes on the wrong target. You are blaming the victim of the crime here, not the perpetrator. 

 

 

[coltsfeva]

All I know is;

1. Grigson ruined his career

2. The Colts would be SB contenders with AL.

 

 

[Colt.45]

Pretty sure I've noticed this 'thought' as well. Everyone is entitled to different opinions as you wisely surmise, i've learned to ignore those spouting this. No use in engaging with basement level thought.

[jchandler7]

I've always put the blame on Ryan Gregson's shoulders. He single handedly ruined Lucks career and perception. As well as set the franchise back for years. We're still suffering from his choices as GM. 

[Fluke_33]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Apologies in advance, this will be long.   Can't be helped.

 

Since he retired, I have publicly stated I thought Andrew Luck mishandled his own retirement about as badly as possible.  His need for privacy led to him mishandle the end of his career.   So any hate that has boiled up I figure he brought upon himself.   When there are anti-Luck threads,  I mostly stay out of them.   And when I do join in, it's to make one post to set the record straight on some issue,  and then I leave the discussion.  

 

But in the past week or so, a new school of thought has surfaced that has caught my attention.   That Andrew Luck is soft, weak, lacked toughness, was privileged,  didn't work hard enough,  wasn't a good teammate,  and that he was a millionaire before he became a Colt so he had little incentive to stay in the game.   One of the things you learn as you get older is all people see the same thing differently.  What's obvious to one person is a mystery to another.   That's life.

 

But these new views that have surfaced, are, IMO,  so false,  so misinformed,  so 180 degrees opposite of reality,  that I thought I'd come here and nip them in the bud before they have a chance to grow and become accepted wisdom.

 

For starters:   About Luck's so-called lack of toughness....    anyone remember that for the first 4-5 years of his career,  Andrew Luck was the most hit quarterback in the entire NFL?   We used to talk about it here all the time.   The combination of sacks and hits was the highest for Luck, and I don't think there was a close second in that time.   There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing Luck getting blasted.   He typically got right back up and congratulated the defender on a good hit.

 

Anyone remember Luck being on the sidelines of the game in Tennessee in 2015, when he got patted on the chest by a teammate and Luck winced badly in pain?  Shoulder injury.   Later, the same year Luck suffered a torn abdominal muscle and kidney on a tough hit vs. Denver.   He was peeing blood.   He missed half the season.   The hits were beginning to take a toll.   

 

Anyone remember in 2016 when he played a good portion of that year with a sleeve on his left wrist?    More playing in pain.   He underwent surgery after that season for the shoulder injury from the previous season.    The guy played in bad pain for his team for years.

 

Do people remember the effort that Luck put in to trying to re-learn how to throw with his newly constructed shoulder?   In 2017,  he tried every approach, conventional and unconventional, including going to California to work with a baseball throwing coach, and to Europe to work with a shoulder specialist.   And for good measure, that was when the rumors started here about Luck and drugs which never turned into anything.   If you knew Luck at all,  you'd know how funny that idea really is.  He really is a Boy Scout.

 

Do people remember Luck playing the 2018 season, where at the start he clearly wasn't close to 100 percent.   He played and risked humiliating himself for the good of the team.   He played his way into better throwing condition.   He couldn't throw a Hail Mary early in the season on the last play vs. Philly in wk3,  but his arm got stronger during the course of the season and we went to the playoffs in Frank's first year.   Turned into Luck's best year.   Again, he's not even close to 100 percent,  but he plays for the good of the team.

 

And the idea that Luck was a millionaire before he was a Colt is supported by nothing.   His father was a career backup during the years when those guys weren't making millions.  Where did this money come from?   He wound earning roughly $100 Million in his career.   I don't think Daddy's money was ever an issue.  The moment Luck signed his rookie contract, he was financially set for Life.   When he signed his second contract, he was set for several lifetimes.   Luck earned his own money, he doesn't need anyone else's.

 

As for his retirement,  did it ever occur to anyone that Luck might've been ready to retire long before he did?  The first 6-7 months of 2019?   That perhaps the team encouraged him to take his time and see if his latest injury -- a mysterious lower leg injury, would get better?   People complain that Luck quit on the team right before the season started and how unforgivable that is.   Luck as a QB and a person, is driven to do the right thing.   He did few commercial endorsements in his career, turning most of them down.   He formed his own book club  for adults AND kids.   This is the guy who still has a flip-phone.  A guy who drives a Honda Accord.   A guy who bikes around Indy and lives in a downtown condo.   He gladly signs autographs to all who ask.   He's not a guy who's living the millionaire lifestyle. 

 

Luck not only doesn't throw teammates under the bus,  he takes the hits, the bullets, the bad publicity when the team does poorly.  He was a model teammate.  He's still friendly with all his teammates.   Luck was a first in, last out type of guy.   Never criticized by teammates or coaches or front office.    So, it strikes me as not inconceivable that the team knew all year long what was going on with Luck, encouraged him to take his time knowing that if Luck retired,  they were going to go with Brissett.  That doesn't seem unreasonable to consider.   A model teammate does not quit on his team just before the season.   Unless there's more to the story. 

 

The idea that Luck is soft, lacked toughness,  wasn't devoted to the game,  or was privileged is just wildly off base and has no actual evidence to support it.   At his retirement announcement, Luck said he had been in pain for four straight years.  Four.  Straight.  Years.  And more than just the normal football wear and tear.  Terrible debilitating pain.   That's why a Future Hall of Famer walks away early.   Not because of some wrongly perceived lack of any quality.

 

Apologies this post is so long.   But there's a great deal of misinformation out there to correct.   Thanks for reading.

 

Come on man.  I keep pushing down  my hope that he will return and there you go and rekindle it right when we need a qb most.  Really unthoughtful!

[2006Coltsbestever]

Great post and well put @NewColtsFan

[coltsva]

How dare he decide to be healthy the rest of his life, be able to play with his kids and grand kids without pain (hopefully), while I now have to sit on my couch and watch inferior QB play. The nerve of some people.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, coltsva said:

How dare he decide to be healthy the rest of his life, be able to play with his kids and grand kids without pain (hopefully), while I now have to sit on my couch and watch inferior QB play. The nerve of some people.

I wish he would come back, the thought of some people saying they wouldn't want him back makes me 

[The Fish]

I think there might be some conflation/short hand when people call him soft. He's clearly not soft. That's just stupid internet tough guy talk. Whatever, that's a thing people do.

People, myself included, didn't like how the end went down though. He get's a nagging ankle injury in the Pro Bowl and it's never resolved and he retired a week before the season, while the team obfuscated for months on the subject. I'm not sure what you call that, but I know football guy will conflate or shorthand that part of the story.

[RollerColt]

As someone who has played (not NFL): every single time he got hit, I would cringe and would essentially feel it. It's like replaying a car wreck in your head over and over. Once you've experienced that you don't forget it. I will never consider Andrew soft or weak. He literally gave his body for the team. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

If he would've announced his retirement a couple of weeks after the playoff loss to KC (before the draft/Free agency), many would've been ok with that. He definitely isn't soft, he took a beating. That affects players mentally too.

[Myles]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Apologies in advance, this will be long.   Can't be helped.

 

Since he retired, I have publicly stated I thought Andrew Luck mishandled his own retirement about as badly as possible.  His need for privacy led to him mishandle the end of his career.   So any hate that has boiled up I figure he brought upon himself.   When there are anti-Luck threads,  I mostly stay out of them.   And when I do join in, it's to make one post to set the record straight on some issue,  and then I leave the discussion.  

 

But in the past week or so, a new school of thought has surfaced that has caught my attention.   That Andrew Luck is soft, weak, lacked toughness, was privileged,  didn't work hard enough,  wasn't a good teammate,  and that he was a millionaire before he became a Colt so he had little incentive to stay in the game.   One of the things you learn as you get older is all people see the same thing differently.  What's obvious to one person is a mystery to another.   That's life.

 

But these new views that have surfaced, are, IMO,  so false,  so misinformed,  so 180 degrees opposite of reality,  that I thought I'd come here and nip them in the bud before they have a chance to grow and become accepted wisdom.

 

For starters:   About Luck's so-called lack of toughness....    anyone remember that for the first 4-5 years of his career,  Andrew Luck was the most hit quarterback in the entire NFL?   We used to talk about it here all the time.   The combination of sacks and hits was the highest for Luck, and I don't think there was a close second in that time.   There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing Luck getting blasted.   He typically got right back up and congratulated the defender on a good hit.

 

Anyone remember Luck being on the sidelines of the game in Tennessee in 2015, when he got patted on the chest by a teammate and Luck winced badly in pain?  Shoulder injury.   Later, the same year Luck suffered a torn abdominal muscle and kidney on a tough hit vs. Denver.   He was peeing blood.   He missed half the season.   The hits were beginning to take a toll.   

 

Anyone remember in 2016 when he played a good portion of that year with a sleeve on his left wrist?    More playing in pain.   He underwent surgery after that season for the shoulder injury from the previous season.    The guy played in bad pain for his team for years.

 

Do people remember the effort that Luck put in to trying to re-learn how to throw with his newly constructed shoulder?   In 2017,  he tried every approach, conventional and unconventional, including going to California to work with a baseball throwing coach, and to Europe to work with a shoulder specialist.   And for good measure, that was when the rumors started here about Luck and drugs which never turned into anything.   If you knew Luck at all,  you'd know how funny that idea really is.  He really is a Boy Scout.

 

Do people remember Luck playing the 2018 season, where at the start he clearly wasn't close to 100 percent.   He played and risked humiliating himself for the good of the team.   He played his way into better throwing condition.   He couldn't throw a Hail Mary early in the season on the last play vs. Philly in wk3,  but his arm got stronger during the course of the season and we went to the playoffs in Frank's first year.   Turned into Luck's best year.   Again, he's not even close to 100 percent,  but he plays for the good of the team.

 

And the idea that Luck was a millionaire before he was a Colt is supported by nothing.   His father was a career backup during the years when those guys weren't making millions.  Where did this money come from?   He wound earning roughly $100 Million in his career.   I don't think Daddy's money was ever an issue.  The moment Luck signed his rookie contract, he was financially set for Life.   When he signed his second contract, he was set for several lifetimes.   Luck earned his own money, he doesn't need anyone else's.

 

As for his retirement,  did it ever occur to anyone that Luck might've been ready to retire long before he did?  The first 6-7 months of 2019?   That perhaps the team encouraged him to take his time and see if his latest injury -- a mysterious lower leg injury, would get better?   People complain that Luck quit on the team right before the season started and how unforgivable that is.   Luck as a QB and a person, is driven to do the right thing.   He did few commercial endorsements in his career, turning most of them down.   He formed his own book club  for adults AND kids.   This is the guy who still has a flip-phone.  A guy who drives a Honda Accord.   A guy who bikes around Indy and lives in a downtown condo.   He gladly signs autographs to all who ask.   He's not a guy who's living the millionaire lifestyle. 

 

Luck not only doesn't throw teammates under the bus,  he takes the hits, the bullets, the bad publicity when the team does poorly.  He was a model teammate.  He's still friendly with all his teammates.   Luck was a first in, last out type of guy.   Never criticized by teammates or coaches or front office.    So, it strikes me as not inconceivable that the team knew all year long what was going on with Luck, encouraged him to take his time knowing that if Luck retired,  they were going to go with Brissett.  That doesn't seem unreasonable to consider.   A model teammate does not quit on his team just before the season.   Unless there's more to the story. 

 

The idea that Luck is soft, lacked toughness,  wasn't devoted to the game,  or was privileged is just wildly off base and has no actual evidence to support it.   At his retirement announcement, Luck said he had been in pain for four straight years.  Four.  Straight.  Years.  And more than just the normal football wear and tear.  Terrible debilitating pain.   That's why a Future Hall of Famer walks away early.   Not because of some wrongly perceived lack of any quality.

 

Apologies this post is so long.   But there's a great deal of misinformation out there to correct.   Thanks for reading.

 

I'd never really heard most of that consistently.  

I don't think he will sniff the Hall of Fame.

[NewColtsFan]

23 minutes ago, Myles said:

I'd never really heard most of that consistently.  

I don't think he will sniff the Hall of Fame.

No.   He won’t be a Hall of Famer.   But he could’ve been had his career not been cut short.   His career wasn’t good enough, or long enough. 
 

Note:   I just went back and re-read what I wrote.    Sorry, that was poorly worded by me.   

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, jchandler7 said:

I've always put the blame on Ryan Gregson's shoulders. He single handedly ruined Lucks career and perception. As well as set the franchise back for years. We're still suffering from his choices as GM. 

 

That's the other extreme in all of this...blaming Grigs for Luck's retirement. That narrative sucks...and all it does it smear % on what was a great time to be a Colts fan.

 

Here are the Luck injury highlights:

 

• To start the 2015 season...Luck is sacked 6 total times in 3 games. A 4th quarter sack in that comeback win against TEN (with just under 7 min left) caused the initial shoulder injury (Luck has confirmed this).
• Luck then missed a couple games and came back and played for 4 games. At the start of the 4th quarter against DEN...he suffered a lacerated kidney and abdominal tear on a 2nd down run in the RZ. He misses the rest of the season. 
• Luck sprains his AC joint snowboarding after the 2015 season. He would later claim it had no impact on his torn labrum.
• Luck plays 15 games in 2016 and misses one game due to concussion (an injury many NFL players get). 
• Luck has shoulder surgery after 2016 season and doesn't play again until 2018.

 

The moment Luck got hurt...the narrative was born...driven by the same local media who won't even ask the current regime challenging questions. They were just waiting for Luck to get hurt.

 

Grigs certainly failed (through bad evaluation and a bit of bad luck) to build a top tier OL...but he didn't ignore it. And it wasn't the disaster that people make it out to be...their adjusted sack rate for Luck's first 4 seasons was #17, #6, #7 and #16....which is far better than most QBs get.

 

It wasn't bad until the 2016 season. But the 2016 OL featured AC, Mewhort, rookie Kelly, Good and rookie Haeg...and Reitz as a backup OT. Not an elite OL by any means...but a solid group (4 of those starters had good-very good seasons per PFF). There should have been only been weak spot...and that was RG. But then Mewhort got hurt in PS and was hurt all year...and missed 6 games. So both G positions were big challenges at times.

 

But before the 2016 season...something else happened. Pagano got more control...and replaced a big chunk of his coaching staff. One of those moves was letting OL coach Hal Hunter go and hiring Joe Philbin. 

 

In the 7 years leading up IND hiring him...the OLs for Philbin's teams finished (on average) #26 in adjusted sack rate. And unsurprisingly, that carried over to his time in Indy...where the Colts finished #28 in 2016 and #32 (dead last) in 2017.

 

So despite having a decent OL group...you couple Philbin's coaching with Chud's refusal to adjust the offense (2016 was Luck's highest AY/A of his career)...and you have the potential makings of a bad OL.

 

Grigs was let go after that 2016 season and Ballard was hired. But despite the "terrible OL that was ruining Luck's career," Ballard only made (2) minor additions to the OL that entire offseason...drafting Zach Banner (on Philbin's request) and signing Brian Schwenke. And both were cut before the season. That's because (in part) Ballard thought there was good talent on the OL and even gave Grigs credit:

 

Quote

“I’ll give Ryan Grigson a lot of credit for this,” Ballard told the MMQB’s Albert Breer a few weeks ago. “He drafted [Ryan] Kelly, [Joe] Haeg and Le’Raven Clark all in one year. Thank God he did, because [the 2017 draft] was a down year for offensive line. We gotta let those guys develop. So it’s the combination of Anthony Castonzo, Jack Mewhort, Kelly, Haeg, Le’Raven Clark, Denzelle Good, we signed Brian Schwenke from Tennesse, we drafted [Zach] Banner... Are we perfect yet? No. But do we have a good group to work with? I do believe that. There’s definitely hope there. Now we gotta let those guys develop.”

 

Yet with that OL group...and same coaching staff...the Colts finished #32 in adjusted sack rate. JB was killed all season...sacked 52 times  (for that alone he deserved a nice little pay raise). But no one ever mentions this for some reason. I know it's tough to expect a new GM to fix the OL in one offseason...but Ballard did nothing. And if that had been Luck playing (instead of JB)...his career probably ends even earlier. But fortunately, I think they knew Luck wasn't going to play. Either that...or they got lucky.

 

But I am not even saying that 2017 was on Ballard. And for similar reasons...it shouldn't be entirely on Grigs either (and neither should 2016). Injuries happened...and the coaching was awful. 

 

But fortunately, being awful in 2017 is what provided the requisite draft capital to fix it once and for all...so that's good.

 

Ultimately, Luck made his decision 2.5 years after Grigs was gone. Luck's retirement was very unfortunate (as were his injuries) but the fact is that were multiple parties to blame for Luck's retirement (including himself)...and this narrative needs to stop.

[CR91]

Andrew never got the respect he deserved and what he sacrificed for this organization. All people want to remember about Andrew is retiring before the season started instead of 3 consecutive 11 win seasons and a trip to the AFC championship game with imo the worst talented roster. Pre-injury Andrew, he was a surefire HOFer, but no one wants to give Andrew the respect he deserves and it's truly sad.

[chad72]

14 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

That's the other extreme in all of this...blaming Grigs for Luck's retirement. That narrative sucks...and all it does it smear % on what was a great time to be a Colts fan.

 

Here are the Luck injury highlights:

 

• To start the 2015 season...Luck is sacked 6 total times in 3 games. A 4th quarter sack in that comeback win against TEN (with just under 7 min left) caused the initial shoulder injury (Luck has confirmed this).
• Luck then missed a couple games and came back and played for 4 games. At the start of the 4th quarter against DEN...he suffered a lacerated kidney and abdominal tear on a 2nd down run in the RZ. He misses the rest of the season. 
• Luck sprains his AC joint snowboarding after the 2015 season. He would later claim it had no impact on his torn labrum.
• Luck plays 15 games in 2016 and misses one game due to concussion (an injury many NFL players get). 
• Luck has shoulder surgery after 2016 season and doesn't play again until 2018.

 

The moment Luck got hurt...the narrative was born...driven by the same local media who won't even ask the current regime challenging questions. They were just waiting for Luck to get hurt.

 

Grigs certainly failed (through bad evaluation and a bit of bad luck) to build a top tier OL...but he didn't ignore it. And it wasn't the disaster that people make it out to be...their adjusted sack rate for Luck's first 4 seasons was #17, #6, #7 and #16....which is far better than most QBs get.

 

It wasn't bad until the 2016 season. But the 2016 OL featured AC, Mewhort, rookie Kelly, Good and rookie Haeg...and Reitz as a backup OT. Not an elite OL by any means...but a solid group (4 of those starters had good-very good seasons per PFF). There should have been only been weak spot...and that was RG. But then Mewhort got hurt in PS and was hurt all year...and missed 6 games. So both G positions were big challenges at times.

 

But before the 2016 season...something else happened. Pagano got more control...and replaced a big chunk of his coaching staff. One of those moves was letting OL coach Hal Hunter go and hiring Joe Philbin. 

 

In the 7 years leading up IND hiring him...the OLs for Philbin's teams finished (on average) #26 in adjusted sack rate. And unsurprisingly, that carried over to his time in Indy...where the Colts finished #28 in 2016 and #32 (dead last) in 2017.

 

So despite having a decent OL group...you couple Philbin's coaching with Chud's refusal to adjust the offense (2016 was Luck's highest AY/A of his career)...and you have the potential makings of a bad OL.

 

Grigs was let go after that 2016 season and Ballard was hired. But despite the "terrible OL that was ruining Luck's career," Ballard only made (2) minor additions to the OL that entire offseason...drafting Zach Banner (on Philbin's request) and signing Brian Schwenke. And both were cut before the season. That's because (in part) Ballard thought there was good talent on the OL and even gave Grigs credit:

 

 

Yet with that OL group...and same coaching staff...the Colts finished #32 in adjusted sack rate. JB was killed all season...sacked 52 times  (for that alone he deserved a nice little pay raise). But no one ever mentions this for some reason. I know it's tough to expect a new GM to fix the OL in one offseason...but Ballard did nothing. And if that had been Luck playing (instead of JB)...his career probably ends even earlier. But fortunately, I think they knew Luck wasn't going to play. Either that...or they got lucky.

 

But I am not even saying that 2017 was on Ballard. And for similar reasons...it shouldn't be entirely on Grigs either (and neither should 2016). Injuries happened...and the coaching was awful. 

 

But fortunately, being awful in 2017 is what provided the requisite draft capital to fix it once and for all...so that's good.

 

Ultimately, Luck made his decision 2.5 years after Grigs was gone. Luck's retirement was very unfortunate (as were his injuries) but the fact is that were multiple parties to blame for Luck's retirement (including himself)...and this narrative needs to stop.

 

Yep, a very much forgotten aspect of the Luck era was the weak coaching staff Pagano surrounded himself with. It took him 3 or 4 times to adjust to the Patriots style of running, several times getting burnt to adjust to not putting Vontae on Antonio Brown in his prime 1-on-1, and hiring Chud for that "Arians like" offense with no method to the offensive madness, that it felt like. 

 

If we had a system like that of Frank Reich much earlier with the right hire by Pagano for OC, Luck would have been getting rid of the ball much earlier and taken deep shots only when necessary. Instead we had everyone run 15-20 yard routes and put it on Luck to buy time with sub-par OL coaching, IMO, more often putting him in harm's way.

[Myles]

11 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Yep, a very much forgotten aspect of the Luck era was the weak coaching staff Pagano surrounded himself with. It took him 3 or 4 times to adjust to the Patriots style of running, several times getting burnt to adjust to not putting Vontae on Antonio Brown in his prime 1-on-1, and hiring Chud for that "Arians like" offense with no method to the offensive madness, that it felt like. 

 

If we had a system like that of Frank Reich much earlier with the right hire by Pagano for OC, Luck would have been getting rid of the ball much earlier and taken deep shots only when necessary. Instead we had everyone run 15-20 yard routes and put it on Luck to buy time with sub-par OL coaching, IMO, more often putting him in harm's way.

Isn't that on Grigson.   I thought most GM's had to approve the coaches brought in.

[Four2itus]

It has been said.....factually, that the franchise repeatedly asked him to take as long as he needed to make his decision. That means he was already letting the front office know he was faltering. He does exactly as they asked him to do and then folks blame Mr. Luck. 

 

I have no respect for that from fans. None.

 

I think they thought that the pressure of his responsibility to his teammates would give them another year and that maybe he would heal and find his love for the game again. He didn't. Want to blame someone? Blame that request form him to not quit and to take his time making his decision. 

 

Even so, to blame at athlete for one's own perceived butt hurt at someone making their own life decision is head scratching to me. Whatever.........

[stitches]

12 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Andrew never got the respect he deserved and what he sacrificed for this organization. All people want to remember about Andrew is retiring before the season started instead of 3 consecutive 11 win seasons and a trip to the AFC championship game with imo the worst talented roster. Pre-injury Andrew, he was a surefire HOFer, but no one wants to give Andrew the respect he deserves and it's truly sad.

He was on a HoF trajectory before injury... and then he got injured and had his best 2 seasons in his last 2 playing seasons for the Colts - the last season before the surgery when his pain and injury were worst... and then the season after not having played for nearly 2 years. 

[shasta519]

30 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Yep, a very much forgotten aspect of the Luck era was the weak coaching staff Pagano surrounded himself with. It took him 3 or 4 times to adjust to the Patriots style of running, several times getting burnt to adjust to not putting Vontae on Antonio Brown in his prime 1-on-1, and hiring Chud for that "Arians like" offense with no method to the offensive madness, that it felt like. 

 

If we had a system like that of Frank Reich much earlier with the right hire by Pagano for OC, Luck would have been getting rid of the ball much earlier and taken deep shots only when necessary. Instead we had everyone run 15-20 yard routes and put it on Luck to buy time with sub-par OL coaching, IMO, more often putting him in harm's way.

 

Definitely. Hate to play the "what if" game...but this is a situation that is much more complex than the GM failing to build a top tier OL. Grigs' draft record was crap...but a different coaching staff could have gotten more out of the players he brought in...we just will never know.

 

Also back then, Irsay didn't want "Stars Wars" numbers...he wanted to build a balanced "monster." A team that plays in a dome that is set to draft the best QB since Manning...and he doesn't want offense to be the identity of the team. I sort of understood where he was coming from...but Polian's shortcomings on defense were his own...and being a top tier offense should always be the goal for the Colts.

 

Regardless, that was his mindset at the time. Not that Pagano was a bad hire...but it's crazy to think how good Luck could have been with a legit offensive mind at the helm (like Andy Reid). Actually, as fate would have it, that opportunity actually presented itself to Irsay...but how do you Wally-Pipp Pagano for getting cancer? 

 

 

 

[#12.]

The people calling him soft?   They're usually the Dan Dakich types who can't connect with a Stanford educated person like Luck.  If you're not overcompensating and spending 24 hours a day trying to prove what an alpha male you are, you're not a real dude.

 

Flat out, straight up - this organization failed Luck. The guy should have been a multiple time Super Bowl winner and hall of famer.  

[w87r]

@NewColtsFan

 

Nice thread, went over better than anticipated I would say.

 

[shasta519]

18 minutes ago, Myles said:

Isn't that on Grigson.   I thought most GM's had to approve the coaches brought in.

 

Sure...but GMs are going to let their HCs build their own staffs. A GM isn't going to force assistants upon a HC. Ballard didn't force Reich to keep Flus. And then when Reich wanted to replace Gugs...Ballard didn't fight him on it.

 

There was once a rumor that Grigs forced Pagano to hire Pep to be OC in 2013 (when Pagano actually wanted Chud). But that never made sense because Chud was actually hired to be the HC in CLE before BA even left for the AZ HC position.

 

But who knows what type of internal power struggle was going on after 2015. The way I understood it was that Pagano was given more control over time. And you could see this play out in the draft a bit too...with picks like TJ Green and D'Joun Smith. 

 

I just think a HC owns an assistant hire...much like the GM owns a draft pick. If that coach/player is a bust...it's not really on the other guy. 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, w87r said:

@NewColtsFan

 

Nice thread, went over better than anticipated I would say.

 

Yes....    so far, so good.   I’m very pleased.  The responses have exceeded my expectations.   Your recommendations really polished things up.   
 

The community has really stepped up and the day is still young!

[csmopar]

I never faulted the reason, I faulted the handling, mostly by Luck but by Ballard and even the reporter who broke it during the game as well, and I'm gonna leave it at that. 

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I never faulted the reason, I faulted the handling, mostly by Luck but by Ballard and even Rapport as well, and I'm gonna leave it at that. 

For what it’s worth...   I’m not sure it was Rappaport who broke the story.  I think it was Shefter at ESPN.    Perhaps someone else can confirm?

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

For what it’s worth...   I’m mot sure it was Rappaport who broke the story.  I think it was Shefter at ESPN.    Perhaps someone else can confirm?

crap, you're right, i think it was Shefter. 

[superrep1967]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Apologies in advance, this will be long.   Can't be helped.

 

Since he retired, I have publicly stated I thought Andrew Luck mishandled his own retirement about as badly as possible.  His need for privacy led to him mishandle the end of his career.   So any hate that has boiled up I figure he brought upon himself.   When there are anti-Luck threads,  I mostly stay out of them.   And when I do join in, it's to make one post to set the record straight on some issue,  and then I leave the discussion.  

 

But in the past week or so, a new school of thought has surfaced that has caught my attention.   That Andrew Luck is soft, weak, lacked toughness, was privileged,  didn't work hard enough,  wasn't a good teammate,  and that he was a millionaire before he became a Colt so he had little incentive to stay in the game.   One of the things you learn as you get older is all people see the same thing differently.  What's obvious to one person is a mystery to another.   That's life.

 

But these new views that have surfaced, are, IMO,  so false,  so misinformed,  so 180 degrees opposite of reality,  that I thought I'd come here and nip them in the bud before they have a chance to grow and become accepted wisdom.

 

For starters:   About Luck's so-called lack of toughness....    anyone remember that for the first 4-5 years of his career,  Andrew Luck was the most hit quarterback in the entire NFL?   We used to talk about it here all the time.   The combination of sacks and hits was the highest for Luck, and I don't think there was a close second in that time.   There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing Luck getting blasted.   He typically got right back up and congratulated the defender on a good hit.

 

Anyone remember Luck being on the sidelines of the game in Tennessee in 2015, when he got patted on the chest by a teammate and Luck winced badly in pain?  Shoulder injury.   Later, the same year Luck suffered a torn abdominal muscle and kidney on a tough hit vs. Denver.   He was peeing blood.   He missed half the season.   The hits were beginning to take a toll.   

 

Anyone remember in 2016 when he played a good portion of that year with a sleeve on his left wrist?    More playing in pain.   He underwent surgery after that season for the shoulder injury from the previous season.    The guy played in bad pain for his team for years.

 

Do people remember the effort that Luck put in to trying to re-learn how to throw with his newly constructed shoulder?   In 2017,  he tried every approach, conventional and unconventional, including going to California to work with a baseball throwing coach, and to Europe to work with a shoulder specialist.   And for good measure, that was when the rumors started here about Luck and drugs which never turned into anything.   If you knew Luck at all,  you'd know how funny that idea really is.  He really is a Boy Scout.

 

Do people remember Luck playing the 2018 season, where at the start he clearly wasn't close to 100 percent.   He played and risked humiliating himself for the good of the team.   He played his way into better throwing condition.   He couldn't throw a Hail Mary early in the season on the last play vs. Philly in wk3,  but his arm got stronger during the course of the season and we went to the playoffs in Frank's first year.   Turned into Luck's best year.   Again, he's not even close to 100 percent,  but he plays for the good of the team.

 

And the idea that Luck was a millionaire before he was a Colt is supported by nothing.   His father was a career backup during the years when those guys weren't making millions.  Where did this money come from?   He wound earning roughly $100 Million in his career.   I don't think Daddy's money was ever an issue.  The moment Luck signed his rookie contract, he was financially set for Life.   When he signed his second contract, he was set for several lifetimes.   Luck earned his own money, he doesn't need anyone else's.

 

As for his retirement,  did it ever occur to anyone that Luck might've been ready to retire long before he did?  The first 6-7 months of 2019?   That perhaps the team encouraged him to take his time and see if his latest injury -- a mysterious lower leg injury, would get better?   People complain that Luck quit on the team right before the season started and how unforgivable that is.   Luck as a QB and a person, is driven to do the right thing.   He did few commercial endorsements in his career, turning most of them down.   He formed his own book club  for adults AND kids.   This is the guy who still has a flip-phone.  A guy who drives a Honda Accord.   A guy who bikes around Indy and lives in a downtown condo.   He gladly signs autographs to all who ask.   He's not a guy who's living the millionaire lifestyle. 

 

Luck not only doesn't throw teammates under the bus,  he takes the hits, the bullets, the bad publicity when the team does poorly.  He was a model teammate.  He's still friendly with all his teammates.   Luck was a first in, last out type of guy.   Never criticized by teammates or coaches or front office.    So, it strikes me as not inconceivable that the team knew all year long what was going on with Luck, encouraged him to take his time knowing that if Luck retired,  they were going to go with Brissett.  That doesn't seem unreasonable to consider.   A model teammate does not quit on his team just before the season.   Unless there's more to the story. 

 

The idea that Luck is soft, lacked toughness,  wasn't devoted to the game,  or was privileged is just wildly off base and has no actual evidence to support it.   At his retirement announcement, Luck said he had been in pain for four straight years.  Four.  Straight.  Years.  And more than just the normal football wear and tear.  Terrible debilitating pain.   That's why a Future Hall of Famer walks away early.   Not because of some wrongly perceived lack of any quality.

 

Apologies this post is so long.   But there's a great deal of misinformation out there to correct.   Thanks for reading.

 

Great post and very well said. Thanks so much!

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

Isn't that on Grigson.   I thought most GM's had to approve the coaches brought in.

 

To an extent, there is a trust level that is extended to Reich from Ballard when Reich wants a certain coach. The same was extended to Pagano by Grigson. So, it goes both ways, is my point. 

[chad72]

47 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Definitely. Hate to play the "what if" game...but this is a situation that is much more complex than the GM failing to build a top tier OL. Grigs' draft record was crap...but a different coaching staff could have gotten more out of the players he brought in...we just will never know.

 

Also back then, Irsay didn't want "Stars Wars" numbers...he wanted to build a balanced "monster." A team that plays in a dome that is set to draft the best QB since Manning...and he doesn't want offense to be the identity of the team. I sort of understood where he was coming from...but Polian's shortcomings on defense were his own...and being a top tier offense should always be the goal for the Colts.

 

Regardless, that was his mindset at the time. Not that Pagano was a bad hire...but it's crazy to think how good Luck could have been with a legit offensive mind at the helm (like Andy Reid). Actually, as fate would have it, that opportunity actually presented itself to Irsay...but how do you Wally-Pipp Pagano for getting cancer? 

 

 

If anything, Polian was a few years ahead of the current times with his investment in offensive skill players. Once Arians left the Colts, I don't think we truly had a good offensive identity till Reich became HC. Even, Arians, for all his "no risk it, no biscuit" philosophy, would have realized when not to put Luck in harm's way as time went on, IMO.

[superrep1967]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Apologies in advance, this will be long.   Can't be helped.

 

Since he retired, I have publicly stated I thought Andrew Luck mishandled his own retirement about as badly as possible.  His need for privacy led to him mishandle the end of his career.   So any hate that has boiled up I figure he brought upon himself.   When there are anti-Luck threads,  I mostly stay out of them.   And when I do join in, it's to make one post to set the record straight on some issue,  and then I leave the discussion.  

 

But in the past week or so, a new school of thought has surfaced that has caught my attention.   That Andrew Luck is soft, weak, lacked toughness, was privileged,  didn't work hard enough,  wasn't a good teammate,  and that he was a millionaire before he became a Colt so he had little incentive to stay in the game.   One of the things you learn as you get older is all people see the same thing differently.  What's obvious to one person is a mystery to another.   That's life.

 

But these new views that have surfaced, are, IMO,  so false,  so misinformed,  so 180 degrees opposite of reality,  that I thought I'd come here and nip them in the bud before they have a chance to grow and become accepted wisdom.

 

For starters:   About Luck's so-called lack of toughness....    anyone remember that for the first 4-5 years of his career,  Andrew Luck was the most hit quarterback in the entire NFL?   We used to talk about it here all the time.   The combination of sacks and hits was the highest for Luck, and I don't think there was a close second in that time.   There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing Luck getting blasted.   He typically got right back up and congratulated the defender on a good hit.

 

Anyone remember Luck being on the sidelines of the game in Tennessee in 2015, when he got patted on the chest by a teammate and Luck winced badly in pain?  Shoulder injury.   Later, the same year Luck suffered a torn abdominal muscle and kidney on a tough hit vs. Denver.   He was peeing blood.   He missed half the season.   The hits were beginning to take a toll.   

 

Anyone remember in 2016 when he played a good portion of that year with a sleeve on his left wrist?    More playing in pain.   He underwent surgery after that season for the shoulder injury from the previous season.    The guy played in bad pain for his team for years.

 

Do people remember the effort that Luck put in to trying to re-learn how to throw with his newly constructed shoulder?   In 2017,  he tried every approach, conventional and unconventional, including going to California to work with a baseball throwing coach, and to Europe to work with a shoulder specialist.   And for good measure, that was when the rumors started here about Luck and drugs which never turned into anything.   If you knew Luck at all,  you'd know how funny that idea really is.  He really is a Boy Scout.

 

Do people remember Luck playing the 2018 season, where at the start he clearly wasn't close to 100 percent.   He played and risked humiliating himself for the good of the team.   He played his way into better throwing condition.   He couldn't throw a Hail Mary early in the season on the last play vs. Philly in wk3,  but his arm got stronger during the course of the season and we went to the playoffs in Frank's first year.   Turned into Luck's best year.   Again, he's not even close to 100 percent,  but he plays for the good of the team.

 

And the idea that Luck was a millionaire before he was a Colt is supported by nothing.   His father was a career backup during the years when those guys weren't making millions.  Where did this money come from?   He wound earning roughly $100 Million in his career.   I don't think Daddy's money was ever an issue.  The moment Luck signed his rookie contract, he was financially set for Life.   When he signed his second contract, he was set for several lifetimes.   Luck earned his own money, he doesn't need anyone else's.

 

As for his retirement,  did it ever occur to anyone that Luck might've been ready to retire long before he did?  The first 6-7 months of 2019?   That perhaps the team encouraged him to take his time and see if his latest injury -- a mysterious lower leg injury, would get better?   People complain that Luck quit on the team right before the season started and how unforgivable that is.   Luck as a QB and a person, is driven to do the right thing.   He did few commercial endorsements in his career, turning most of them down.   He formed his own book club  for adults AND kids.   This is the guy who still has a flip-phone.  A guy who drives a Honda Accord.   A guy who bikes around Indy and lives in a downtown condo.   He gladly signs autographs to all who ask.   He's not a guy who's living the millionaire lifestyle. 

 

Luck not only doesn't throw teammates under the bus,  he takes the hits, the bullets, the bad publicity when the team does poorly.  He was a model teammate.  He's still friendly with all his teammates.   Luck was a first in, last out type of guy.   Never criticized by teammates or coaches or front office.    So, it strikes me as not inconceivable that the team knew all year long what was going on with Luck, encouraged him to take his time knowing that if Luck retired,  they were going to go with Brissett.  That doesn't seem unreasonable to consider.   A model teammate does not quit on his team just before the season.   Unless there's more to the story. 

 

The idea that Luck is soft, lacked toughness,  wasn't devoted to the game,  or was privileged is just wildly off base and has no actual evidence to support it.   At his retirement announcement, Luck said he had been in pain for four straight years.  Four.  Straight.  Years.  And more than just the normal football wear and tear.  Terrible debilitating pain.   That's why a Future Hall of Famer walks away early.   Not because of some wrongly perceived lack of any quality.

 

Apologies this post is so long.   But there's a great deal of misinformation out there to correct.   Thanks for reading.

 

By the way your a great writer and I respect that. I'm no writer myself I just make comments sometimes but you are a writer keep the writing coming and you always do and that's a good thing for all of us.  

[rockywoj]

Read a Q&A on by TY Twitter the other day. TY called Luck his favorite teammate. 
 

NCF, from an OCF, nice thread and well said. Kudos. 

[shasta519]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

If anything, Polian was a few years ahead of the current times with his investment in offensive skill players. Once Arians left the Colts, I don't think we truly had a good offensive identity till Reich became HC. Even, Arians, for all his "no risk it, no biscuit" philosophy, would have realized when not to put Luck in harm's way as time went on, IMO.

 

Irsay was definitely ahead of his time. I think he saw the inevitable rule changes that would favor the offense (especially QBs and skill position players). In fact, I recall him lobbying for them in the mid 2000s. 

BA would have made a big difference. The offense would have likely been better. I mean...Carson Palmer was 29-9 in his first 3 seasons with BA...until he fell off in his late 30s...right around the time Luck was entering his prime.

 

But the real difference would have been on defense. Whether it was Bowles...or Bettcher (Colts OLB coach in 2012)...ARI was constantly top 5 in defense during BA's tenure.

 

Even when Bowles left for the NYJ HC position...here is how Bettcher finished from 2015-2017: #2, #2 and #3. 

 

Again...hate the "what if"...but keeping BA was definitely the right play. And some people even said it at the time...despite how insensitive it appeared. But I am not even sure how Irsay could have managed it. Not only was he Wally-Pipping a cancer survivor...he was doing so with that HC's good friend...who had just come out of retirement because that HC asked him to. Difficult situation...but I think it would have had a huge impact on last decade.

[NewColtsFan]

25 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

By the way your a great writer and I respect that. I'm no writer myself I just make comments sometimes but you are a writer keep the writing coming and you always do and that's a good thing for all of us.  

Wow....    that’s incredibly kind and generous. I’m a little caught off guard.   OK...   a LOT caught off guard!  
 

I’m fortunate that I love writing in this community and @Nadine and the Mods put up with me, flaws and all!

 

Thanks again....    

[Thebrashandthebold]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

The people calling him soft?   They're usually the Dan Dakich types who can't connect with a Stanford educated person like Luck.  If you're not overcompensating and spending 24 hours a day trying to prove what an alpha male you are, you're not a real dude.

 

Flat out, straight up - this organization failed Luck. The guy should have been a multiple time Super Bowl winner and hall of famer.  

I don't see where you get all of that about Luck winning multiple Super Bowls and being a Hall of Famer. I would have bet big time against than when I saw him play as a rookie. Yes, he was from Stanford but that doesn't mean he was football smart. He kept taking beatings because he held the ball too long and ran too much and recklessly. The only thing he did was get to one ECF and got blown out big time there. I was predicting that first year that his career would be short and he would be beat up. Some of that is on management but a great deal of it is on Luck. He wasn't nearly as good as some of you think and he was the most over hyped player in NFL history. I am sad but not surprised that he is gone.

 

 

[Myles]

19 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I don't see where you get all of that about Luck winning multiple Super Bowls and being a Hall of Famer. I would have bet big time against than when I saw him play as a rookie. Yes, he was from Stanford but that doesn't mean he was football smart. He kept taking beatings because he held the ball too long and ran too much and recklessly. The only thing he did was get to one ECF and got blown out big time there. I was predicting that first year that his career would be short and he would be beat up. Some of that is on management but a great deal of it is on Luck. He wasn't nearly as good as some of you think and he was the most over hyped player in NFL history. I am sad but not surprised that he is gone.

 

 

He was a winner.  53 wins 33 losses. 

I agree that he may have been a bit over-rated, but he was very good.  Top 5 QB in the league.   Not top 3 though.  

2018 he showed what he could do on a decent team.   67+ completion %.   4600 yards, 39 TD's 15 INT's.

[Thebrashandthebold]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

He was a winner.  53 wins 33 losses. 

I agree that he may have been a bit over-rated, but he was very good.  Top 5 QB in the league.   Not top 3 though.  

2018 he showed what he could do on a decent team.   67+ completion %.   4600 yards, 39 TD's 15 INT's.

I never say him as being in the top five but I won't argue the point. He had so many flaws. When the pocket broke down he ran the ball and never learned to slide so he got walloped over and over again. When a sack was just about inevitable he would either scramble or get a pass off and take another big hit. Great QBs just cover up and get on the ground when that happens to live for another day. Luck was absolutely not able to do this and that is why he caused a lot of his own damage. I do agree that he should never have been turned loose on the first two teams and be allowed to take all of that punishment. His body broke down and he quit. Who couldn't see that coming. He did well in the regular season but playoffs just gave him more beatings. I never found him pleasant to watch and when I did I kept wondering if that latest hit would be his last. It finally happened. I don't doubt his courage or consider him soft. I do think that even as a Stanford grad he was not a smart football player when it came to protecting himself and being able to play.

 

[Tsarquise]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

Andrew never got the respect he deserved and what he sacrificed for this organization. All people want to remember about Andrew is retiring before the season started instead of 3 consecutive 11 win seasons and a trip to the AFC championship game with imo the worst talented roster. Pre-injury Andrew, he was a surefire HOFer, but no one wants to give Andrew the respect he deserves and it's truly sad.

What world do you live in? Andrew Luck gets tons of respect. Most hold him as one of the best Colts QB's of all time and one of the greatest "what if" stories in the NFL. The general consensus among Colts fans and NFL fans in general (At least the ones I have talked to in person and online such as forums, twitter and reddit) is complete absolvement for most of his failings and short comings; most blame the Colts and more specifically, Ryan Grigson. You will get straight downvoted for spewing almost any Andrew Luck criticism on reddit, for what it is worth; don't believe me? Try it. 

 

What is the appropriate amount of respect that he deserves? To be held as the greatest Colts QB of all time? To be labeled the biggest "what if" story (Which he already is.) Or to be labeled as on of the great Colts QB's, which he is. He played for only 5 and half seasons in the NFL when he was being depended on as a franchise QB that  many expected would play, maybe, at least 15 years or so, but definitely more than 5 years. 

 

This is a player who's mere presence in the draft was the catalyst for the Colts -- a team, at the time, with one of the winningest records that last decade -- to jettison an entire winning regime. That is respect in and of itself, and also, why so many people are rubbed the wrong away by his abrupt retirement. The guy he replaced was pretty good, and now his legacy is shared with a other team. 

 

Some even think he was better than Manning. I would say Manning gets more criticism than Andrew Luck (maybe).

 

Andrew Luck gets TONS of respect.  

 

 

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

But in the past week or so, a new school of thought has surfaced that has caught my attention.   That Andrew Luck is soft, weak, lacked toughness, was privileged,  didn't work hard enough,  wasn't a good teammate,  and that he was a millionaire before he became a Colt so he had little incentive to stay in the game.   One of the things you learn as you get older is all people see the same thing differently.  What's obvious to one person is a mystery to another.   That's life.

 

But these new views that have surfaced, are, IMO,  so false,  so misinformed,  so 180 degrees opposite of reality,  that I thought I'd come here and nip them in the bud before they have a chance to grow and become accepted wisdom.

 

For starters:   About Luck's so-called lack of toughness....    anyone remember that for the first 4-5 years of his career,  Andrew Luck was the most hit quarterback in the entire NFL?   We used to talk about it here all the time.   The combination of sacks and hits was the highest for Luck, and I don't think there was a close second in that time.   There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing Luck getting blasted.   He typically got right back up and congratulated the defender on a good hit.

 

Anyone remember Luck being on the sidelines of the game in Tennessee in 2015, when he got patted on the chest by a teammate and Luck winced badly in pain?  Shoulder injury.   Later, the same year Luck suffered a torn abdominal muscle and kidney on a tough hit vs. Denver.   He was peeing blood.   He missed half the season.   The hits were beginning to take a toll.   

 

Anyone remember in 2016 when he played a good portion of that year with a sleeve on his left wrist?    More playing in pain.   He underwent surgery after that season for the shoulder injury from the previous season.    The guy played in bad pain for his team for years.

 

Do people remember the effort that Luck put in to trying to re-learn how to throw with his newly constructed shoulder?   In 2017,  he tried every approach, conventional and unconventional, including going to California to work with a baseball throwing coach, and to Europe to work with a shoulder specialist.   And for good measure, that was when the rumors started here about Luck and drugs which never turned into anything.   If you knew Luck at all,  you'd know how funny that idea really is.  He really is a Boy Scout.

 

Do people remember Luck playing the 2018 season, where at the start he clearly wasn't close to 100 percent.   He played and risked humiliating himself for the good of the team.   He played his way into better throwing condition.   He couldn't throw a Hail Mary early in the season on the last play vs. Philly in wk3,  but his arm got stronger during the course of the season and we went to the playoffs in Frank's first year.   Turned into Luck's best year.   Again, he's not even close to 100 percent,  but he plays for the good of the team.

 

And the idea that Luck was a millionaire before he was a Colt is supported by nothing.   His father was a career backup during the years when those guys weren't making millions.  Where did this money come from?   He wound earning roughly $100 Million in his career.   I don't think Daddy's money was ever an issue.  The moment Luck signed his rookie contract, he was financially set for Life.   When he signed his second contract, he was set for several lifetimes.   Luck earned his own money, he doesn't need anyone else's.

 

As for his retirement,  did it ever occur to anyone that Luck might've been ready to retire long before he did?  The first 6-7 months of 2019?   That perhaps the team encouraged him to take his time and see if his latest injury -- a mysterious lower leg injury, would get better?   People complain that Luck quit on the team right before the season started and how unforgivable that is.   Luck as a QB and a person, is driven to do the right thing.   He did few commercial endorsements in his career, turning most of them down.   He formed his own book club  for adults AND kids.   This is the guy who still has a flip-phone.  A guy who drives a Honda Accord.   A guy who bikes around Indy and lives in a downtown condo.   He gladly signs autographs to all who ask.   He's not a guy who's living the millionaire lifestyle. 

 

Luck not only doesn't throw teammates under the bus,  he takes the hits, the bullets, the bad publicity when the team does poorly.  He was a model teammate.  He's still friendly with all his teammates.   Luck was a first in, last out type of guy.   Never criticized by teammates or coaches or front office.    So, it strikes me as not inconceivable that the team knew all year long what was going on with Luck, encouraged him to take his time knowing that if Luck retired,  they were going to go with Brissett.  That doesn't seem unreasonable to consider.   A model teammate does not quit on his team just before the season.   Unless there's more to the story. 

 

The idea that Luck is soft, lacked toughness,  wasn't devoted to the game,  or was privileged is just wildly off base and has no actual evidence to support it.   At his retirement announcement, Luck said he had been in pain for four straight years.  Four.  Straight.  Years.  And more than just the normal football wear and tear.  Terrible debilitating pain.   That's why a Future Hall of Famer walks away early.   Not because of some wrongly perceived lack of any quality.

 

Apologies this post is so long.   But there's a great deal of misinformation out there to correct. 

 

A MINORITY of people call him soft because he ultimately decided that he could not deal with the possibility of injury and the possible rehabilitation it takes to recover; a possible outcome that every NFL player faces. The injuries are a part of football. Injuries are not unique to Andrew Luck. And, yet after dealing with his injuries and rehabilitation, he decided to quit. It is that simple. That is why some may call him soft. It is not ridiculous. You are ignoring his ultimate decision to quit due to not wanting to deal with injuries and rehabilitation. 

 

I do not really think his socioeconomic background is of any importance or pertinence in regards to the discussion about his decision to retire, but it was mentioned in your post and I know what and who's post prompted you to mention this, so I will address it. Andrew Luck definitely did not come from a working class family -- once again, not that it matters -- and was definitely rich when retired, so it makes sense for one to take the financial stability he currently had at the time of retirement, and the relatively well off family that he came from. Being set for life, definitely adds less motivation to "work". And you citing that Luck is seemingly not interested in the greatest of material things adds to that point. If you already have so much money, money is not much of a motivation, especially when you don't need, relative to people who live sybaritic lifestyles, much money. 

Then there are the people talking about him sacrificing his body for the team and his fans, as if he is some selfless diety akin to dying for others sins. It is his job. He is a football player. It is the career path he chose. He signed a contract. He made a commitment.

He was being greatly compensated with millions of dollars. He wasn't sacrificing his health for his team or for me or for you. Whatever he sacrificed, it was for himself, his pride, and his legacy. And ultimately he chose not to make that sacrifice.

 

Andrew Luck was a great player who held the ball too long and played with no sense of self preservation. His style of play had a role in his injuries, and his abrupt and relatively early retirement was disappointing to every passionate Colts fan (and Luck fan) and has had a huge impact on the Colts organization. It sucked. 

 

Good for Luck and his personal life, but bad luck for the Colts and every Colts fan. 

 

I was never a Luck fan, per se, I rooted for him cause he was the Colts' guy, just like I rooted for Rivers, but Manning and that era is what got me to be the diehard Colts fan that I am today. And after passionately watching that era for over a decade and witnessing how that era ended (partly due to Luck), then recently seeing how the Luck era ended (once again, partly due to Luck) I can't help but feel peeved by the outcome and partially at Luck. But, more importantly, when I hear the narrative that completely absolves Luck from the outcome and exclusively blames the Colts to the point where the Colts incompetence exclusively killed the career of Luck as if he did not make a volitional decision to quit playing, it really irks me, because that narrative is not accurate; it is far more nuanced, and I am willing to bet others feel the same. 

 

I am sure we can all agree, as Colts fans, that we wish Luck continued to play or would come back. 

 

Luck was a great QB. 

 

 

[Myles]

6 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

 

 

Some even think he was better than Manning.

 

 

Those are not true football fans.