Vinatieri

[Fx Stryker]

Also I think there is a reason we started having having Pat Mac take over the kickoffs. We wanted to save Adam's legs for those clutch field goals.

[GoColts8818]

Also I think there is a reason we started having having Pat Mac take over the kickoffs. We wanted to save Adam's legs for those clutch field goals.

That and McAfee has a better leg for kickoffs

[Susie Q]

Looks like if we cut him after 6/1 he would save us more money this year because his cap hit wouldn't be as bad this year because we would spread it out to next year (when we aren't so close to the cap) We would get savings this year allowing us to get closer to the cap. If we aren't restructuring or trading Freeney I see this as a likely alternative. Either way this won't happen til after 6/1 it looks.

Your right it won't happen.

[Fx Stryker]

What is the urge to get rid of Adam? He makes four million. I think a lot of you are buying into the "we got no money" skit. We have like $60+ million next year.

[Susie Q]

What is the urge to get rid of Adam? He makes four million. I think a lot of you are buying into the "we got no money" skit. We have like $60+ million next year.

Makes no sense to me to keep Freeney with the large cap hit and cut Vinny with the small hit. :hmm: Oh well what do I know.

[bahhummbug]

Makes no sense to me to keep Freeney with the large cap hit and cut Vinny with the small hit. :hmm: Oh well what do I know.

Agree.Who has more postseason clutch kicks or points kicker?

[Fx Stryker]

Makes no sense to me to keep Freeney with the large cap hit and cut Vinny with the small hit. :hmm: Oh well what do I know.

And a one Jerry Hughes. The amount of money we have next year is making me thing we cut some of the wrong players. Looks like Bill knew more about cap then some credit him.

[BrentMc11]

Is he a good kicker? No doubt.

Will he be utilized any time soon for it to matter? not very likely.

You know deep down he was wanting to be a member of "The Castaways". So he could go to a team where his kicks have playoff implications.

You are much more emotional than the real Jim Caldwell....love it!

[BrentMc11]

And a one Jerry Hughes. The amount of money we have next year is making me thing we cut some of the wrong players.

Hughes has his chance in the 3-4...if not he is gone...simple!!

[BrentMc11]

That and McAfee has a better leg for kickoffs

He kicks 60 yard FGs too...youtube.

[Fx Stryker]

Hughes has his chance in the 3-4...if not he is gone...simple!!

He better be.

He kicks 60 yard FGs too...youtube.

75 yarders too.

[GoColts8818]

He kicks 60 yard FGs too...youtube.

I don't think anyone would question that McAfee has the stronger leg. With that said there does seem to be a little concern about how accurate he is. He had a very good 2008 season where he was 6 of 7 on 40 plus yard field goals but before that he was just 11-25 from beyond 40 yards. He also missed a couple of kicks that would have beaten Pitt and sent WVU to the National Title game in 2008 so there might be a little concern about him in the clutch. There is also the fact that if you have him doing field goals, punts, and kick offs you are going to kill his leg real fast and the smaller problem but still a problem none the less that he is the holder.

With that said if the Colts needed a 55 yarder or longer at the end of the game to win it or send it to over time it wouldn't shock me at all to see Pat sent out there to kick it. I just think it would need to be the right situation. Either way largely because of how quickly we would kill his leg if we asked him to do everything I don't think the Colts are really going to explore dumping Adam for McAfee as the kicker at least not right now. Adam has proven he is still a good player and he's a player we can afford. No reason to dump him. The money we would save from cutting Adam isn't that much it's not like cutting the other players where you are going to get major cap space as a result over the contract or where that player no longer fit the system that was being brought in. Adam still fits and he's fairly cheap by NFL player standards. When you have as many holes as the Colts do as a team no need to make more by cutting someone like Adam who can still play and who is fairly cheap.

[Superman]

And a one Jerry Hughes. The amount of money we have next year is making me thing we cut some of the wrong players. Looks like Bill knew more about cap then some credit him.

Jerry Hughes cap hit is even less than Vinatieri's.

And yes, I think Polian was highly involved with the institution of the salary cap in the first place. The dead hit we'll have this year was likely anticipated, at least to some extent. But the good thing about non-guaranteed contracts in the NFL is that you can get out of bad decisions in relatively little time, especially in comparison with other leagues. Like the NBA, where the money is much more, and if you do a bad contract, you're stuck with it.

[BrentMc11]

I don't think anyone would question that McAfee has the stronger leg. With that said there does seem to be a little concern about how accurate he is. He had a very good 2008 season where he was 6 of 7 on 40 plus yard field goals but before that he was just 11-25 from beyond 40 yards. He also missed a couple of kicks that would have beaten Pitt and sent WVU to the National Title game in 2008 so there might be a little concern about him in the clutch. There is also the fact that if you have him doing field goals, punts, and kick offs you are going to kill his leg real fast and the smaller problem but still a problem none the less that he is the holder.

With that said if the Colts needed a 55 yarder or longer at the end of the game to win it or send it to over time it wouldn't shock me at all to see Pat sent out there to kick it. I just think it would need to be the right situation. Either way largely because of how quickly we would kill his leg if we asked him to do everything I don't think the Colts are really going to explore dumping Adam for McAfee as the kicker at least not right now. Adam has proven he is still a good player and he's a player we can afford. No reason to dump him. The money we would save from cutting Adam isn't that much it's not like cutting the other players where you are going to get major cap space as a result over the contract or where that player no longer fit the system that was being brought in. Adam still fits and he's fairly cheap by NFL player standards. When you have as many holes as the Colts do as a team no need to make more by cutting someone like Adam who can still play and who is fairly cheap.

I agree with you on the long field goals....we may need that some this year. I am not ready to kick Adam V to the curb. I just knew our famous canal swimmer could kick field goals as well. Thanks for the quote!!

[GoColts8818]

I agree with you on the long field goals....we may need that some this year. I am not ready to kick Adam V to the curb. I just knew our famous canal swimmer could kick field goals as well. Thanks for the quote!!

Oh I know I was more or less just building on your point. Not all of that was directed at you so sorry if it came across like that.

[BrentMc11]

Oh I know I was more or less just building on your point. Not all of that was directed at you so sorry if it came across like that.

No...not a problem. I thought your points were valid. Pat Mac....is a punter, a kicker (kickoffs) and needs a shot at long field goals. We were both correct, and I loved you point on accuracy. This is why I love this stuff!!!

[21isSuperman]

The money argument is valid. We'd save $2.7 million on the cap this season and next by releasing him. But that's not an exorbitant price tag for a good kicker. And he's still a good kicker. So if you're getting rid of him, it's not because of production, or even age. It's because of money. He represents 2% of the salary cap. If you want that $2.7 million for another player, who are you replacing him with that's going to have the impact that a good kicker can have?

And as I said earlier, the argument that we're years away from contending isn't really a good reason to get rid of a player who can help us win games. The kicker plays a small role, but it's very important. Again, the Broncos don't make the playoffs last season without Matt Prater's leg. There's always a need for a good kicker, whether you think your team is a contender or not.

By the way, I need to go bleach my brain after that Rosie O'Donnell comment. Some of us think in pictures, man.

Well said...even the Rosie part :barf:

[dgambill]

I've got to agree with absolutely everything Superman has said regarding this issue. There is no sound, solid reason to let him go. Keep him. He can win us games this year. And the subtle underlying tone of a kicker is just a kicker and isn't that important other than playoffs is just ridiculous. Just like free throws win basketball games, so do field goals. 3 point is 3 points. Vinitari hasn't showed any sign of slowing down to me, so IMO we keep him.

I understand your opinion. I just don't agree. To me we can get someone else to get us those 3 points at almost the same amount of the time. Your analogy is like the Charlotte Bobcats signing a basketball player a big salary and then sitting him on the bench for 47 minutes only to bring him in the game to hit free throws at the end. All the while your team is in last place and getting blown out and have few quality skill players that affect 98% of the game. Sure Vinny's contract is a small portion of our cap...however...so is mostly everyone elses. The better comparision is that his contract is in the 6th highest salary on the team followed by Punter Pat Mcaffee. Seriously, two of our top 10 paid players currently on our team are the Kicker followed by the Punter. To me having that kinda kicker is a luxury we don't need. We can get a much cheaper alternative that is almost as effective and get position players that affect a much higher percentage of the plays on the field. If we don't get better at those positions how many of Adams kicks are going to really affect the outcome of the game?? We were blown out in over half our games. That money would be better spent elsewhere IMO. Great kicker...great teammate...just not worth his cost.

[Fx Stryker]

I understand your opinion. I just don't agree. To me we can get someone else to get us those 3 points at almost the same amount of the time. Your analogy is like the Charlotte Bobcats signing a basketball player a big salary and then sitting him on the bench for 47 minutes only to bring him in the game to hit free throws at the end. All the while your team is in last place and getting blown out and have few quality skill players that affect 98% of the game. Sure Vinny's contract is a small portion of our cap...however...so is mostly everyone elses. The better comparision is that his contract is in the 6th highest salary on the team followed by Punter Pat Mcaffee. Seriously, two of our top 10 paid players currently on our team are the Kicker followed by the Punter. To me having that kinda kicker is a luxury we don't need. We can get a much cheaper alternative that is almost as effective and get position players that affect a much higher percentage of the plays on the field. If we don't get better at those positions how many of Adams kicks are going to really affect the outcome of the game?? We were blown out in over half our games. That money would be better spent elsewhere IMO. Great kicker...great teammate...just not worth his cost.

Ravens want to talk to you.

[Superman]

I understand your opinion. I just don't agree. To me we can get someone else to get us those 3 points at almost the same amount of the time. Your analogy is like the Charlotte Bobcats signing a basketball player a big salary and then sitting him on the bench for 47 minutes only to bring him in the game to hit free throws at the end. All the while your team is in last place and getting blown out and have few quality skill players that affect 98% of the game.

That's not analogous, at all. Not even close.

It's more like paying a closer $10 million to throw one inning three or four times a week. A bad baseball team doesn't devalue their closer just because they're not winning games, and a rebuilding team wouldn't get rid of their closer if he's still productive. The money issues in baseball are significantly different than they are in football and basketball, where you have stricter caps and more parity. But the point is that we're talking about a specialized position, where the player has one job and has a significant impact on the game. There's no designated free throw shooter in basketball.

Sure Vinny's contract is a small portion of our cap...however...so is mostly everyone elses.

Which is why it's not critical enough to warrant getting rid of a productive player for minimal savings.

The better comparision is that his contract is in the 6th highest salary on the team followed by Punter Pat Mcaffee. Seriously, two of our top 10 paid players currently on our team are the Kicker followed by the Punter. To me having that kinda kicker is a luxury we don't need

How is that relevant? That's mostly the case because we just got rid of a handful of players who were getting paid more without giving the production commensurate with their salaries. His salary is still just 2.25% of the cap. That's reasonable for a kicker. He's the 4th highest paid kicker in the league ($2.7 million), which you might think is high, but in comparison with the average salary for a kicker ($1.85 million), it's really not.

And again, getting rid of him isn't saving us a whole bunch of money that we'd then be spreading out to add depth at other positions. Getting rid of him comes with minimal savings at this point.

We can get a much cheaper alternative that is almost as effective and get position players that affect a much higher percentage of the plays on the field. If we don't get better at those positions how many of Adams kicks are going to really affect the outcome of the game?? We were blown out in over half our games. That money would be better spent elsewhere IMO. Great kicker...great teammate...just not worth his cost.

You're acting like he's making $5 million a year, and we can cut him clean and replace him for $500k. That's not the case. Cut him, and replace him with a rookie kicker at the end of the draft, and the savings are nominal. Maybe enough to add a couple cast-off free agents who wind up getting cut in camp, or maybe a special teams player. Having a good kicker is more impactful than a handful of also rans.

I'm also going to point out the fact that we were in fact NOT blown out in over half our games. Let's call a blow-out anything more than a two score game (17+ points). We only lost by 17+ in four games. That's 25% of our games. Even if you add back in the back-door cover against New England, that's not over half our games.

I'm also going to point out the fact that just because we were terrible last year doesn't mean we'll be terrible this year.

[ColtsfanMN]

But Vinny can't kick more than a 45yd FG in Madden...

This frustrates me to no end.

[ColtsPRIDE11]

I understand your opinion. I just don't agree. To me we can get someone else to get us those 3 points at almost the same amount of the time. Your analogy is like the Charlotte Bobcats signing a basketball player a big salary and then sitting him on the bench for 47 minutes only to bring him in the game to hit free throws at the end. All the while your team is in last place and getting blown out and have few quality skill players that affect 98% of the game. Sure Vinny's contract is a small portion of our cap...however...so is mostly everyone elses. The better comparision is that his contract is in the 6th highest salary on the team followed by Punter Pat Mcaffee. Seriously, two of our top 10 paid players currently on our team are the Kicker followed by the Punter. To me having that kinda kicker is a luxury we don't need. We can get a much cheaper alternative that is almost as effective and get position players that affect a much higher percentage of the plays on the field. If we don't get better at those positions how many of Adams kicks are going to really affect the outcome of the game?? We were blown out in over half our games. That money would be better spent elsewhere IMO. Great kicker...great teammate...just not worth his cost.

We'll agree to disagree. I again agree and go back to what Superman has so eloquently said: the confidence that we, and especially Luck, can and will have with Adam as our kicker is (IMO) invaluable. Takes a little bit off of Luck, even if it is just a small amount.

To address your analogy on the basketball court, if said player comes in and makes those free throws and wins the game for you, is he not worth what you have paid him? Has he not done his job and helped provide what is important--the win? Does he not play a large role to get you where you want to be--the playoffs? (not insinuating that we are going to be in the playoffs this year, it's just an analogy, b/c let's face it Adam has played a huge part in the past.)

And don't even get me ging on the fact that most people underrate the value of a great kicker and punter. Yes, I get that these guys are not on the field for a lot of minutes during the game, but when they are they can greatly affect the outcome. Kickers and punters are important positions.

Also, Adam's leadership ability in the locker room and on the sidelines cannot be over looked. And if you ask me, having this kind of kicker is a luxary we cannot help but keep. The other positions that have been vacated will provide the space and $$ needed to fill in the holes in certain positions that we have right now (next year). Like has been stated, look at how much we have in cap space for this time next year. I believe we'll be ok as far as filling in the areas needed.

To me, the argument being made doesn't hold water when we are looking at $3 or $4 million dollars. Sometimes the things you can't put a dollar amount on out weigh the actual monetary part of an equation. To me, this is one of those times. So, to me he is worth the cost.

Again, a disclaimer here--this is my opinion, you are allowed yours and you have stated it nicely. Thank you for your insightful post.

[Creekside]

I have no interest in Dan Bailey; he's just another kicker. And I'm not putting up a fight for Vinatieri over principle. I just don't get the argument for getting rid of him, especially when we're talking about minimal cap savings.

I can't wrap my mind around the argument that money spent on a good kicker is money wasted, because the next couple of seasons don't matter since we're going to be sooo bad. I keep pointing out that, with the right moves, we don't have to be relegated to the bottom of the league. And having a good kicker who can come through in the clutch can actually help with that. Getting rid of Vinatieri could actually be counter-productive in that regard.

...........sigh...........

[funktacious2]

A kicker isn't really part of the rebuilding process. We still want to win if we can and having a good kicker is part of that. If he continues to kick well, I don't see the money being an issue.

[WSO]

I'm not complaining until Vinateri pulls a Cundiff in the playoffs. I sure as heck don't want a repeat of 2005. Stastistically he was pretty good last year right around 85%

[Ohio Colt]

Because clutch kickers are hard to find and he will be a veteran presence in the locker room.

you took the words from my mouth, my friend.

[dgambill]

Well we are currently 2.7 million over the cap after we sign our Rookies. Who else would you have us cut to get under the cap then? As it stands Freeney is the only logical choice. Everyone that we could cut that would help us have been. It seems the team is going to let Freeney play out that contract or hang on to him until his trade value goes up. It is kinda interesting that if we cut Adam after 6/1 we suddenly get very very close to making our cap. So I ask you....who do we cut?

[GoColts8818]

Well we are currently 2.7 million over the cap after we sign our Rookies. Who else would you have us cut to get under the cap then? As it stands Freeney is the only logical choice. Everyone that we could cut that would help us have been. It seems the team is going to let Freeney play out that contract or hang on to him until his trade value goes up. It is kinda interesting that if we cut Adam after 6/1 we suddenly get very very close to making our cap. So I ask you....who do we cut?

That tells me they plan to work out a long term deal with Freeney to lower his cap number or try to trade Freeney at draft time. Cutting AV alone isn't going to make up all that cap space by the time you add a new kicker to the mix which they would have to do. Cutting AV is like using a water bucket to try to bail out the Titanic yeah it'll help a little bit but it's not really going to make a difference.