Colts pushed Rivers out the door?

[IinD]

I think we're overthinking this one. He had a one year deal and just played it. Played for 17 years, his jersey number. I think he wanted to get to 17 and that was it.

 

No reason to play anymore for him. Plus he knew he's probably looking at foot surgery and figured I'm good, I'm done.

[jvan1973]

48 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I don't agree. There is no way Rivers would have turned down another $25 million. He will never have the chance to make that kind of money again. I think moving on from him and giving him the chance to just retire is exactly what happened. They were never going anywhere farther with Rivers. They may drop down for a year or two without him while they sort it out. I doubt they will draft a QB (that is a shot in the dark) nor will they used draft picks or trade to obtain someone like Stafford. I look for them to pick up a free agent or someone that would take a low draft pick. This could mean that they are going to Eason to see what they  have in which case they may keep JB. Or they might have another option but I can't see Ballard giving away those draft picks.

 

Tony Romo is making 18 million a year as a color commentator.    Phillip could do the same.     He is already very wealthy.   Money isn't an issue at this point in his life. 

 

Also,   the Colts will certainly trade for a qb one way or the other.    

[Four2itus]

Why is this current era of humans have to make everything so dramatic? You know who pushed Rivers out the door? The same entity that pushed Manning out the door.

 

Events in life. 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

If they are anticipating the cap going back up it is not a bad idea to give him a new deal at all. It could be a incentive for him to go to a team that does that.  The cap going back up would line up with Nelson needing a new deal. Maybe it’s only the 3rd and 4th year for Stafford where his contact goes up. That goes along with the cap going back up.

If Stafford re-does his contract so that we absorb all the $33 million this year instead of the $20 million, the Lions might be willing to do a trade with just a 2nd and 3rd rounder???Win-win to me

 

Cap experts, could we do that to save our first rounder? Would it be worth it?

 

@w87r @Superman

[CurBeatElite]

5 hours ago, The Fish said:

Listen to the link..

 

I figured this might have been the case- the brass noticing Rivers is good, but not going to get the team in this iteration to a Super Bowl and was kind of lucky to be a postseason participant this year.

 

I don't think we were 'lucky' to be a postseason participant by any means.  We won 11 games and we beat ourselves in at least 3 of our 5 losses.  We also beat ourselves in the 1st round of the playoffs.

 

Ballard has assembled a very good team here.  IMO, we're more unlucky that we didn't go 13-3, 14-2, or 15-1 than we are 'lucky' to have made the playoffs.  We essentially beat ourselves against the Jags week 1 and Pittsburgh week 16.  Arguably we beat ourselves against the Browns and the Ravens as well... the only game we lost where I felt like we had no shot was the 2nd go round with the Titans and that was a game where we were missing DeFo, Oke and several others.

 

5 hours ago, Lancer1 said:

I agree, right after the Wild Card loss, Ballard stated that both sides would take about a month and address the situation then - it would be pretty lousy to give Philip the impression that he was being given space to clear his head and make this important decision, only to kick him to the curb about a week later.

 

Philip has long stated that he wanted to coach his sons in high school football, just as his father had coached him & his brother Stephen. He had the job lined up before signing with the Colts, and when he did it was likely only for a season, or 2 at the most.

 

I think he made the decision to go out on his own terms, a liberty the Chargers never afforded him and once he decided to walk, he let the team know so they would have ample opportunity to effectively replace him.

 

We'll probably never know.  My guess is there was some mutual stuff going on... maybe Ballard told Rivers "hey we'd love to have you back, but we are looking to upgrade or find a long term solution... if that falls through, you're our next best option" and Rivers said "hey, thanks, I don't think we'd beat the Bills or KC with me at QB anyway and I don't really feel like dealing with the rigors of rehabbing my broken foot all off season to get ready for another year of playing... thanks for the opportunity."

 

5 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

HMM If that is true what a huge miss on a QB he drafted

 

Not a huge miss at all.  @GoColts8818 summed it up pretty good - very rarely do 4th round QBs become stud/franchise QBs.  Eason came out of college early, he's still very young... many experts said before last year's draft that Eason has as good of physical skills as all the other QBs in the draft,  but would have done himself good to stay for his senior year.  

 

As a 4th rounder, if Eason becomes a solid backup, that's a great pick.  If we get Stafford and Eason has several years of learning from Rivers and then Stafford and his mental game and preparation match up to his physical skills and he becomes a quality starter for us.. that's cherries on top.

 

 

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Which was the point of what Bowen said. Ballard must feel confident about something. Or it just very well might be Rivers wasn’t going to wait around.

 

Or, it may be that Rivers talked to his wife and family and said "Hey, I'm looking at getting foot surgery, I played the last chunk of the season with a broken bone in my foot.  If I want to play at a high level next year, I will need to go into a pretty extensive/high intensity rehab program soon after surgery soon thereafter, which means I'll be in the training facility like a full time job... or I can hang up my cleats and take the rehab a bit slower and get to hang out with you all...  what do you think?"  and they said "You're a HOFer and a millionaire whether or not you go back for another year, why don't you just hang up the cleats and spend more time with us."

 

[CR91]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

If Stafford re-does his contract so that we absorb all the $33 million this year instead of the $20 million, the Lions might be willing to do a trade with just a 2nd and 3rd rounder???Win-win to me

 

Cap experts, could we do that to save our first rounder? Would it be worth it?

 

That would eat half our cap. We really couldn't re-sign or make many moves. Just small ones.

[IinD]

4 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Why is this current era of humans have to make everything so dramatic? You know who pushed Rivers out the door? The same entity that pushed Manning out the door.

 

Events in life. 

So true.. Lol.

 

That was what my post said a couple up from yours. He played 17, got one last shot, it didn't work and he walked away with 25M extra. I'm sure he can see he was getting old. He wasn't going to be faster and more fit in 9 months.. Lol

[Bolts2Colts]

50 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I don't agree. There is no way Rivers would have turned down another $25 million. He will never have the chance to make that kind of money again. I think moving on from him and giving him the chance to just retire is exactly what happened. They were never going anywhere farther with Rivers. They may drop down for a year or two without him while they sort it out. I doubt they will draft a QB (that is a shot in the dark) nor will they used draft picks or trade to obtain someone like Stafford. I look for them to pick up a free agent or someone that would take a low draft pick. This could mean that they are going to Eason to see what they  have in which case they may keep JB. Or they might have another option but I can't see Ballard giving away those draft picks.

 

Rivers has made over $250M in his career. Last I heard, he was driving a pickup truck and his wife a minivan. I doubt money is what motivates him, but if he was interested in a broadcasting career, could easily make $17M like Tony Romo. 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

If Stafford re-does his contract so that we absorb all the $33 million this year instead of the $20 million, the Lions might be willing to do a trade with just a 2nd and 3rd rounder???Win-win to me

 

Cap experts, could we do that to save our first rounder?

 

Nope. The bonus was paid by the Lions when they extended and restructured his contract. Once traded, it's stuck with them as a cap penalty/dead money.

 

And I assume that if they had to choose between $13m in cap space and another first rounder, they'd prefer the first rounder.

[Bolts2Colts]

5 minutes ago, IinD said:

So true.. Lol.

 

That was what my post said a couple up from yours. He played 17, got one last shot, it didn't work and he walked away with 25M extra. I'm sure he can see he was getting old. He wasn't going to be faster and more fit in 9 months.. Lol

Agree.  I think Rivers realized they’re not winning a SB in 2021 with him at QB. Maybe if the defense was as good as 2019 49ers.  Only reason he would come back is for a shot to win a ring finally. 
 

Also he worried about hanging on and being embarrassed in his final season. His friends like Nick Hardwick may have convinced him it was time. 

[Jackie Daytona]

1 hour ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

I'm betting 49ers. They can offer a better draft pick and have better trade options than the Colts.

They also can't pay him very easily

[CamMo]

Irsay is talking to the media right now for those who don’t know.

 

sounds like Stafford and Rodgers would meet Mr Irsay’s criteria. Also commented that he wasn’t surprised Phil decided to retire but wishes they could have run it back with him again since he loved watching the team this year and loves Phil...

I’d say that pretty much confirms he wasn’t forced out.

 

 

[IinD]

1 minute ago, Bolts2Colts said:

Agree.  I think Rivers realized they’re not winning a SB in 2021 with him at QB. Maybe if the defense was as good as 2019 49ers.  Only reason he would come back is for a shot to win a ring finally. 
 

Also he worried about hanging on and being embarrassed in his final season. His friends like Nick Hardwick may have convinced him it was time. 

Yup...

 

Now if we were a dominant D like you said I could've maybe seen it, but he's aware of what this team needs and figured I'm too old to play lights out an entire season at my age. Throw in a foot surgery on top of it that would keep him immobile for probably 4-6 weeks and then rehab, then training camp and he thought '# this I've got enough money, no need to beat myself up anymore'

 

Nothing wrong with that.

[Superman]

@chad72

 

If the Colts traded for Stafford, it would be my preference to wait until next year to extend him. His 2021 cap hit would be $20m, which would be fine for our cap purposes.

 

But if an extension is a sticking point, then I suppose we could bump up his Year 1 compensation and still keep his cap number close to what it is now. Go four years total, $16m signing bonus, reduce his 2021 salary from $20m to $16m, and his cap number would still be $20m for the Colts, but his total comp in 2021 would go up to $32m. 

 

[Superman]

Locked, pending moderator review.

 

A personal, off topic argument was removed from this thread. I'm opening it back up now. Please promote civil discourse moving forward.

[Thebrashandthebold]

2 hours ago, CamMo said:

Irsay is talking to the media right now for those who don’t know.

 

sounds like Stafford and Rodgers would meet Mr Irsay’s criteria. Also commented that he wasn’t surprised Phil decided to retire but wishes they could have run it back with him again since he loved watching the team this year and loves Phil...

I’d say that pretty much confirms he wasn’t forced out.

 

 

And you believe anything Irsay says? I don't. I think they might offered to let him comeback if he would do it for $10 million knowing he wouldn't do that. Someday he will open up and tell the truth about what happened. I still believe the Colts closed the door.

 

[Tsarquise]

2 hours ago, CamMo said:

Irsay is talking to the media right now for those who don’t know.

 

sounds like Stafford and Rodgers would meet Mr Irsay’s criteria. Also commented that he wasn’t surprised Phil decided to retire but wishes they could have run it back with him again since he loved watching the team this year and loves Phil...

I’d say that pretty much confirms he wasn’t forced out.

 

 

He said a " part" of him wishes be could.

 

It doesn't confirm anything. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

2 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

He said a " part" of him wishes be could.

 

It doesn't confirm anything. 

He also hinted they would prefer a younger QB and that the roster us in win now mode. I'm thinking we will end up with Darnold. 

Watson to the Jets for the #2 pick and a plethora of other draft pics

Darnold to the Colts for #21 and next year's #2

That's my guess

[w87r]

1 minute ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Darnold to the Colts for #21 and next year's #2

That's my guess

He isnt bringing in that kind of return.

 

Maybe a 2nd this year and 3rd next year( with conditions to turn into a 2nd)

[cdgacoltsfan]

2 minutes ago, w87r said:

He isnt bringing in that kind of return.

 

Maybe a 2nd this year and 3rd next year( with conditions to turn into a 2nd)

That might work

[rockywoj]

7 minutes ago, w87r said:

He isnt bringing in that kind of return.

 

Maybe a 2nd this year and 3rd next year( with conditions to turn into a 2nd)

Or how about maybe a 3rd this year OR a 2nd next year.  I wouldn’t want to pay more than that.

[Tsarquise]

6 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

He also hinted they would prefer a younger QB and that the roster us in win now mode. I'm thinking we will end up with Darnold. 

Watson to the Jets for the #2 pick and a plethora of other draft pics

Darnold to the Colts for #21 and next year's #2

That's my guess

"Ideally" we would be in position to get Trevor Lawrence. Ideals have nothing to do with reality, and assessing a QB's age in a vacuum -- for the sake of being younger with out assessing talent and ability -- is a huge no. You get the youngest AND best talent that can get you to the promised lands now, and that is not Sam Darnold, imo. 

 

I think Matt Stafford is the best fit. 

[Lancer1]

8 hours ago, Nesjan3 said:

I also heard on a different show that RIver may have been given the option of a "gentleman retirement" as opposed to being let go on the FA market. I think Ballard fully believes he can upgrade, as do I. Phil was alright, it was fun. I dont think anyone realistically thought we had a chance at beating the Bills and Chiefs though. I had hope, but from the start i didnt think Phil was a good enough upgrade to make it to the SB.  Was choked we didnt sign Brady, look wheres he is at.

I realistically thought that, because we did have a chance and actually should’ve beaten the Bills. We lost by 3, with a missed field goal and at least 4 points unattained due to coaching decisions.

 

Kansas City is far from invincible, they lost to 2 bad teams this season, in Week 5 when they were trying to win and in Week 17 when they didn’t appear to be.

 

If you took our entire team and simply replaced Rivers with Brady, not only are we still not in Superbowl LV (especially from the AFC) I can’t think of 1 game we lost with Philip that we definitely would’ve won with Tom under center.

[AwesomeAustin]

These are all QBs who could be available next year. Some more realistic than others.  Supports the theory Ballard feels he has options and was best to move on from Rivers.  

Rogers

Darnold

Stafford

Smith

Carr

Watson

Dak

Trubisky

Foles

Ryan

Garrapolo

Goff

 

Personally, I don’t think there was any behind the scenes trickery.  Rivers retired to be with his family. Anything else would have leaked by now. 

 

 

[Thebrashandthebold]

24 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

These are all QBs who could be available next year. Some more realistic than others.  Supports the theory Ballard feels he has options and was best to move on from Rivers.  

Rogers

Darnold

Stafford

Smith

Carr

Watson

Dak

Trubisky

Foles

Ryan

Garrapolo

Goff

 

Personally, I don’t think there was any behind the scenes trickery.  Rivers retired to be with his family. Anything else would have leaked by now. 

 

 

What about Cam Newton? Isn't he a free agent?

 

[Stephen]

6 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

What about Cam Newton? Isn't he a free agent?

 

Sure if you want to pick top 10 2022

[Stephen]

3 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

He also hinted they would prefer a younger QB and that the roster us in win now mode. I'm thinking we will end up with Darnold. 

Watson to the Jets for the #2 pick and a plethora of other draft pics

Darnold to the Colts for #21 and next year's #2

That's my guess

I would never give up 21st and next years second for darnold.  That's  a terrible  deal

[GoColts8818]

17 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

What about Cam Newton? Isn't he a free agent?

 

He is and was last year when the Colts showed no interest in him.  Since then he had a very poor year in New England so I don’t expect the Colts to show interest in him this off-season.

[jvan1973]

26 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

What about Cam Newton? Isn't he a free agent?

 

That's not happening

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I would never give up 21st and next years second for darnold.  That's  a terrible  deal

Yup. Darnold isn't going to get that much draft capital. If it happens, it's a reach. I can see a mid to late first, but not multiple picks. Given what's available in the draft, and some of the other potential guys coming available, and early second, or maybe a 2nd and 3rd seem more realistic.

 

NO to me would be a good match. He could battle it out with Hill. 

[John Waylon]

So I’ve thought about it, and I’m at least willing to consider it as an option.
 

I’ve said all along that Phil knew that next year was it no matter what. So his plans for 2021 hinged on our plans because he wasn’t going to go somewhere else and go through the process of learning a new playbook, new coaches, new guys, all of that for just one season. Unless it was an unprecedented situation like the Chiefs trading us Mahomes for a 7th because Andy needs some Uncle Phil in his life. 
 

And to his credit, Phil beat Father Time this year. But that just meant it was more likely that he didn’t next year. It’s a reasonable bet that Phil returning in 2021 wouldn’t be quite as good as Phil was in 2020. At his age that is the expectancy. 
 

Maybe Ballard decided to build forward instead because of that. There’s plenty of people around here who say we’re still a couple of years away from being ready to compete for a SB. If Ballard agrees then I can definitely see him deciding to let Phil walk and get the new guy in here and get him comfortable. See what happens in 2021 so that in 2022 we feel like we’re truly ready to compete. Or at least on the very edge of being ready to by that point. 
 

And Phil is a competitive guy. He wouldn’t have come here if he didn’t feel like we weren’t a playoff team. I just find it a bit surprising that he chose to walk away from a team that is ready to contend for the playoffs and could realistically get hot and go on a real run in the playoffs. 
 

So yeah, I’m willing to believe it’s at least plausible that Ballard made the difficult decision to Ol’ Yeller Uncle Phil which forced Phil’s hand because it was us or nobody. 
 

And as has been pointed out, Phil may even come out better for it. The discovery of his charisma in 2020 got noticed. And think about the market for a minute... Star QBs make the needles move the most. We’ve got a generation of QBs retiring and Phil is in a good spot. Manning won’t go into the booth. Brees probably won’t. Brady won’t. No one wants Ben. Eli wouldn’t be good. Rodgers is still too many years away. So Phil is the right guy for the right time in a way. He’s gonna wind up making damn good money in the announce booth working a whole lot less. Good for him. 

[EastStreet]

33 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

So I’ve thought about it, and I’m at least willing to consider it as an option.
 

I’ve said all along that Phil knew that next year was it no matter what. So his plans for 2021 hinged on our plans because he wasn’t going to go somewhere else and go through the process of learning a new playbook, new coaches, new guys, all of that for just one season. Unless it was an unprecedented situation like the Chiefs trading us Mahomes for a 7th because Andy needs some Uncle Phil in his life. 
 

And to his credit, Phil beat Father Time this year. But that just meant it was more likely that he didn’t next year. It’s a reasonable bet that Phil returning in 2021 wouldn’t be quite as good as Phil was in 2020. At his age that is the expectancy. 
 

Maybe Ballard decided to build forward instead because of that. There’s plenty of people around here who say we’re still a couple of years away from being ready to compete for a SB. If Ballard agrees then I can definitely see him deciding to let Phil walk and get the new guy in here and get him comfortable. See what happens in 2021 so that in 2022 we feel like we’re truly ready to compete. Or at least on the very edge of being ready to by that point. 
 

And Phil is a competitive guy. He wouldn’t have come here if he didn’t feel like we weren’t a playoff team. I just find it a bit surprising that he chose to walk away from a team that is ready to contend for the playoffs and could realistically get hot and go on a real run in the playoffs. 
 

So yeah, I’m willing to believe it’s at least plausible that Ballard made the difficult decision to Ol’ Yeller Uncle Phil which forced Phil’s hand because it was us or nobody. 
 

And as has been pointed out, Phil may even come out better for it. The discovery of his charisma in 2020 got noticed. And think about the market for a minute... Star QBs make the needles move the most. We’ve got a generation of QBs retiring and Phil is in a good spot. Manning won’t go into the booth. Brees probably won’t. Brady won’t. No one wants Ben. Eli wouldn’t be good. Rodgers is still too many years away. So Phil is the right guy for the right time in a way. He’s gonna wind up making damn good money in the announce booth working a whole lot less. Good for him. 

He's not going to the booth anytime soon IMO. He's going to go coach...  It's been the plan all along.

[John Waylon]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

He's not going to the booth anytime soon IMO. He's going to go coach...  It's been the plan all along.

Possibly.

 

I think he might wear a little thinner over the course of a game than you’d expect, too. Like it’ll be really fun the first quarter and a half and then it gets old and tiresome, kinda like Madden there at the end, just not as sad. 

[EastStreet]

24 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Possibly.

 

I think he might wear a little thinner over the course of a game than you’d expect, too. Like it’ll be really fun the first quarter and a half and then it gets old and tiresome, kinda like Madden there at the end, just not as sad. 

He'll be a HS coach....

 

Quote

"It's a special day for me and my family, really," Rivers said in a news conference, his voice breaking. "I know I'm going to get a little emotional. I had two childhood dreams. One was to play in the NFL, and I've been able to do that now going into my 17th season and I still love that. The other is to be a high school football coach as my dad did. ... How blessed am I to be able to live both of those out, one on the tail end and one in the beginning stages."

 

[AwesomeAustin]

8 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

What about Cam Newton? Isn't he a free agent?

 

Sure.  He can backup Eason on the practice squad 

[smittywerb]

Pushed out the door = "Hey Phillip, we believe you did a good job but we're going to move on from you."

 

This is being blown out of proportion.  The reality is that Phil isn't going to get it done.  Good team and heart guy but a noodle arm, bad toe, and statue like pocket presence isn't going to get us far in the playoffs.

[John Waylon]

7 hours ago, EastStreet said:

He'll be a HS coach....

 

 

Doesn’t that just make it seem more likely that we made the decision though? Is Phil the kind of guy that would walk away from a team that could conceivably go on a deep playoff run to coach a high school team? I have a hard time believing he’d make this decision with that specifically in mind. That job is going to be there for him in 2022. Or whenever he wants to take it full time. It’s not Saban ready to hand over the reigns at Alabama to him. 
 

I just find it strange that Phil made the choice to walk away still having a legitimate chance to make one last postseason run. 

[Beardog]

17 hours ago, Lancer1 said:

I realistically thought that, because we did have a chance and actually should’ve beaten the Bills. We lost by 3, with a missed field goal and at least 4 points unattained due to coaching decisions.

 

Kansas City is far from invincible, they lost to 2 bad teams this season, in Week 5 when they were trying to win and in Week 17 when they didn’t appear to be.

 

If you took our entire team and simply replaced Rivers with Brady, not only are we still not in Superbowl LV (especially from the AFC) I can’t think of 1 game we lost with Philip that we definitely would’ve won with Tom under center.

I have to agree with this.  Tons of Rivers haters here and I sincerely think they wanted him back.  Rivers wasn’t the reason they lost and I’d say so if he was.  Hoping we get a great qb but I think we’ll appreciate Rivers next year 
 

 

[Beardog]

3 hours ago, John Waylon said:

Doesn’t that just make it seem more likely that we made the decision though? Is Phil the kind of guy that would walk away from a team that could conceivably go on a deep playoff run to coach a high school team? I have a hard time believing he’d make this decision with that specifically in mind. That job is going to be there for him in 2022. Or whenever he wants to take it full time. It’s not Saban ready to hand over the reigns at Alabama to him. 
 

I just find it strange that Phil made the choice to walk away still having a legitimate chance to make one last postseason run. 

As a Rivers fan I wondered the same but he’s been consistent about giving it thought after the season.  I also think the foot had something to do with it as I understood he played through a lot of pain at the end.  Teammates said this but he’s not the kind of guy that would talk about it.   I’m kinda happy it was him that quickly made the decision and not team.  
 

I’m a little torn as I’d love to see him continue playing and this is a good team.  They beat the Titans and should have beaten the Bills.  But the Super Bowl goes through KC.

 

 

 

[John Waylon]

6 minutes ago, Beardog said:

As a Rivers fan I wondered the same but he’s been consistent about giving it thought after the season.  I also think the foot had something to do with it as I understood he played through a lot of pain at the end.  Teammates said this but he’s not the kind of guy that would talk about it.   I’m kinda happy it was him that quickly made the decision and not team.  
 

I’m a little torn as I’d love to see him continue playing and this is a good team.  They beat the Titans and should have beaten the Bills.  But the Super Bowl goes through KC.

 

 

 

I think there’s still a chance he could pop up somewhere next year in an emergency situation. Say Mahomes or Wilson goes down injured early in the season. I think a team like that would be jumping the shark not to at least consider Phil based on this past season. But it would have to be one of those teams that are a shoo-in to compete. He’s not gonna go out and take over the Raiders for an injured Carr, or some kind of similar situation where he doesn’t have a chance to go on one last run. As long as it would be a job with the security that “you’re the guy” and it’s early enough in the season I could see him decidi to throw caution to the wind and be an emergency replacement. Unlikely, but definitely possible.