Colts pushed Rivers out the door?

[Fisticuffs111 1,989]

Wouldn’t be surprised if we did.

 

I would be surprised if Stafford’s even close to a done deal though. Too many suitors and I don’t see Ballard already having made such a good offer that the Lions have closed the market.

[Chloe6124 9,824]

31 minutes ago, Duke_Of_NY_A_Number_1 said:

Forcing Rivers out before negotiating a Trade with Detroit would not be a smart move, as it now lets the other team know that your good fallback option is gone, thus allowing Detroit to ask for even more via a trade. 

Which was the point of what Bowen said. Ballard must feel confident about something. Or it just very well might be Rivers wasn’t going to wait around.

[CR91 6,392]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm over 20 minutes in and barely a word about Rivers.

 

Not even a tease that Bowen has inside info about how and why Rivers resigned so soon.     Nothing.

 

 

Sorry. It's about 36 mins in. The slider tells you certain segments their talking about.

Edited January 27 by Superman

[Fluke_33 2,616]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

Not really I mean Eason was a fourth round pick.  Most QBs taken there or later don’t become starters overnight or even at all.  I’ve never really understood why so many here think he’s going to be the guy.  

The backup qb is always the most popular player to NFL fans.  lol.  To many on here its been the 3rd string (Eason) or practice squad qb (Swag Kelly) that's the most favorite!

[Bolts2Colts 303]

18 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Which was the point of what Bowen said. Ballard must feel confident about something. Or it just very well might be Rivers wasn’t going to wait around.

Only way Bowen’s speculation makes sense is if Ballard has a clear upgrade locked up. 
 

Otherwise, what is the point in getting rid of your fallback option, who has already said he won’t play for another team? 
 

It’s more plausible that this was Rivers’ decision after talking to his family and friends, and realizing Colts were lukewarm about him. 

[Fluke_33 2,616]

43 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Kind of explains why he broke the new of his retirement thru the San Diego press too. 
 

although I might actually vomit if we go get Stanford or wentz

 

 

[Chloe6124 9,824]

13 minutes ago, Bolts2Colts said:

Only way Bowen’s speculation makes sense is if Ballard has a clear upgrade locked up. 
 

Otherwise, what is the point in getting rid of your fallback option, who has already said he won’t play for another team? 
 

It’s more plausible that this was Rivers’ decision after talking to his family and friends, and realizing Colts were lukewarm about him. 

To me it does seem more plausible that Rivers wasn’t going to wait around. Probably wanted to get his kids settled in Alabama if there was any chance that he wasn’t going to be back.  

[w87r 5,034]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Good find!!!

 

Like with Buckner, assuming it is a revamped 4 yr. extension (including the 2 years with Lions) with possibly the big hits mainly in years 3 and 4, something like 4 years $120 mil. (with $80 mil. guaranteed), which would still be a fair contract for both parties.

 

@Superman @w87r - do you guys think that would be a fair contract considering how QBs are paid now?

Tbh, not sure what you are asking?

 

Stafford already was under contract for $33m in 2021. Detroit already paid $13m out in bonuses that is why his cap hit would only be $20m for us if traded here.

 

So he isn't under paid for what QBs make by any means. He had $26m salary next year(2022), which Detroit has to pay $3m of.

 

So he would essentially be double dipping money for this year.

 

I would say of an extension is agreed upon, the $20m cap hit for this season probably stays in place. Maybe adjust base and turn it into SB or RB. Guarantee money next year(2022)

 

I would think maybe something like this:

2021:$20m

2022:$28m($5m more than he is owed now)

2023:$25m

2024:$25m

2025:$25m

 

So new 5yr deal worth $123m with $73m guaranteed(2021-2023 monies)? He currently has no guarantees although $10m guarantees on March 22nd.

 

That's my thoughts?

[GoColts8818 4,571]

1 hour ago, gspdx said:

 

Right - not sure I agree with the "huge miss" on a forth round QB when he hasn't had a real training camp.  Last year was like a "red shirt" year for him.  

 

Will he be any good?  We have no idea.  Odds aren't great - look at all the 1st round picks that end up being ineffective.  But I would at least like to give him some time to learn the game at that NFL level.

Yeah which is why the Colts are doing the right thing and taking it slow with him.

[chad72 7,158]

8 minutes ago, w87r said:

Tbh, not sure what you are asking?

 

Stafford already was under contract for $33m in 2021. Detroit already paid $13m out in bonuses that is why his cap hit would only be $20m for us if traded here.

 

So he isn't under paid for what QBs make by any means. He had $26m salary next year(2022), which Detroit has to pay $3m of.

 

So he would essentially be double dipping money for this year.

 

I would say of an extension is agreed upon, the $20m cap hit for this season probably stays in place. Maybe adjust base and turn it into SB or RB. Guarantee money next year(2022)

 

I would think maybe something like this:

2021:$20m

2022:$28m($5m more than he is owed now)

2023:$25m

2024:$25m

2025:$25m

 

So new 5yr deal worth $123m with $73m guaranteed(2021-2023 monies)? He currently has no guarantees although $10m guarantees on March 22nd.

 

That's my thoughts?

 

So, you don't think (say based on your example) $20 mil., $28 mil., $36 mil., $36 mil. for $120 mil. over 4 years (Colts portion) would be a fair market value with increasing QB contracts?? You still think we should be paying him the Rivers rate of $25 mil. even when the cap gets back to what it was after 2021, if I am reading your post right??

 

[w87r 5,034]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

So, you don't think (say based on your example) $20 mil., $28 mil., $36 mil., $36 mil. for $120 mil. over 4 years would be a fair market value with increasing QB contracts?? You still think we should be paying him the Rivers rate of $25 mil., if I am reading this right??

Well by those 3rd and 4th year he will be 35 and 36yrs old not sure I would be wanting to pay that much at that time. $25m sounds about right, maybe closer to $30m but wouldn't approach $36m, IMO.

 

$36m would be a top 3 QB contract right now. Might not be in 3yrs but still would be high IMO.

[chad72 7,158]

4 minutes ago, w87r said:

Well by those 3rd and 4th year he will be 35 and 36yrs old not sure I would be wanting to pay that much at that time. $25m sounds about right, maybe closer to $30m but wouldn't approach $36m, IMO.

 

$36m would be a top 3 QB contract right now. Might not be in 3yrs but still would be high IMO.

 

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks. 

[crazycolt1 7,405]

3 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

HMM If that is true what a huge miss on a QB he drafted

A 4th round QB gamble that may or may not work out is far from a huge miss. 

[ColtStrong2013 1,904]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Lets say we play Eason and we don't know much about him so I am not bashing the guy. What do you think our record would be? I said 7-9 which is probably pretty accurate unless he is just stunningly good. At this point Ballard isn't even sure if he would be a great backup.

which pretty much indicates Ballard has a plan to ensure he is nothing more than just a backup, if that. We aren’t going to be lucky to win 7 games... we are going to bring in a talented qb, likely Stafford, and compete now and for the next few years. I had a feeling Rivers didn’t retire on his own. He was here for a year to compete and give us a chance to continue evaluating options. Ballard won’t force the issue. But he will trade a first and likely more to bring an upgrade in. He proved that with Buckner. I’d say Matt Stafford is coming to Indianapolis. 

[shasta519 2,830]

33 minutes ago, w87r said:

Tbh, not sure what you are asking?

 

Stafford already was under contract for $33m in 2021. Detroit already paid $13m out in bonuses that is why his cap hit would only be $20m for us if traded here.

 

So he isn't under paid for what QBs make by any means. He had $26m salary next year(2022), which Detroit has to pay $3m of.

 

So he would essentially be double dipping money for this year.

 

I would say of an extension is agreed upon, the $20m cap hit for this season probably stays in place. Maybe adjust base and turn it into SB or RB. Guarantee money next year(2022)

 

I would think maybe something like this:

2021:$20m

2022:$28m($5m more than he is owed now)

2023:$25m

2024:$25m

2025:$25m

 

So new 5yr deal worth $123m with $73m guaranteed(2021-2023 monies)? He currently has no guarantees although $10m guarantees on March 22nd.

 

That's my thoughts?

 

I am thinking more of a 4-year deal...adding two years to his current contract. But they will essentially tear up his current deal...and replace it with a new one. I think any team trading for him will do this. That team will want to have control beyond two years AND control over the AAV and cap hits.

 

So if Ballard paid Rivers $25M...I am guessing he would pay Stafford around $30M. So a 4/$120M would work. Some of that cap will go into this season and next as well...but it will backload because they are expecting the cap to go up after the move further from COVID.

[gspdx 603]

44 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

You still think we should be paying him the Rivers rate of $25 mil. 

 

 

So there's a Rivers rate too?  I need to call Jake from State Farm!

[Chloe6124 9,824]

If they are anticipating the cap going back up it is not a bad idea to give him a new deal at all. It could be a incentive for him to go to a team that does that.  The cap going back up would line up with Nelson needing a new deal. Maybe it’s only the 3rd and 4th year for Stafford where his contact goes up. That goes along with the cap going back up.

[cdgacoltsfan 578]

15 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

which pretty much indicates Ballard has a plan to ensure he is nothing more than just a backup, if that. We aren’t going to be lucky to win 7 games... we are going to bring in a talented qb, likely Stafford, and compete now and for the next few years. I had a feeling Rivers didn’t retire on his own. He was here for a year to compete and give us a chance to continue evaluating options. Ballard won’t force the issue. But he will trade a first and likely more to bring an upgrade in. He proved that with Buckner. I’d say Matt Stafford is coming to Indianapolis. 

I'm betting 49ers. They can offer a better draft pick and have better trade options than the Colts.

[cdgacoltsfan 578]

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

It all makes sense. The timing is weird. Rivers might of just hell with this I am not waiting a month for them to look around and decided but it all makes perfect sense. Saw this on twitter. Just a random tweet. Someone could just be blowing smoke but if it’s true Ballard has been working on Stafford awhile. 

 

 

Who is j.griner and how do you know he's talking about the Colts?

[jvan1973 5,351]

1 minute ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Who is j.griner and how do you know he's talking about the Colts?

Pretty easy,   he was responding to the tweet above his.   

[w87r 5,034]

3 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Who is j.griner and how do you know he's talking about the Colts?

An admitted nobody that says he has a friend of Stafford's representation?

 

Take with grain of salt, but hopefully he is right.

 

[w87r 5,034]

16 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

If they are anticipating the cap going back up it is not a bad idea to give him a new deal at all. It could be a incentive for him to go to a team that does that.  The cap going back up would line up with Nelson needing a new deal. Maybe it’s only the 3rd and 4th year for Stafford where his contact goes up. That goes along with the cap going back up.

The problem with that is Stafford will be 35 and 36yrs old for those 2 seasons. Not old, old but also not the age you want to be paying a guy top positional money either.

[shasta519 2,830]

12 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

If they are anticipating the cap going back up it is not a bad idea to give him a new deal at all. It could be a incentive for him to go to a team that does that.  The cap going back up would line up with Nelson needing a new deal. Maybe it’s only the 3rd and 4th year for Stafford where his contact goes up. That goes along with the cap going back up.

 

Stafford's new contract will be negotiated before the trade is done. This will be the case with any team that he is traded to...because a team that doesn't want to commit to Stafford for several years won't give up the requisite draft capital to get him. If a team wants to just rent him for two seasons...they will get outbid.

 

From what I have read...the organization has a great relationship with Stafford...and will look to find a trade that is good for the organization and that Stafford agrees to. And money will certainly be part of that.

 

Think of it like the DeFo trade. That contract was already agreed upon before the trade was official. DeFo only had one year left on his deal...but it's different when we are talking about the QB position.

[shasta519 2,830]

2 minutes ago, w87r said:

The problem with that is Stafford will be 35 and 36yrs old for those 2 seasons. Not old, old but also not the age you want to be paying a guy top positional money either.

 

Right...it's not ideal. But that's what it will take imo. Stafford is a great two-year great stopgap for 1/3 of the NFL...which is why we have heard so many teams check in. But some team is going to be willing to commit to him and willing to gamble on those two years...which will weed out those other teams just looking for a great two-year rental. One team says this...and then another team or two join the fray and the bidding process really starts...including draft capital and contractual discussions. Just my take.

[CanuckColtsFan 355]

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

It all makes sense. The timing is weird. Rivers might of just hell with this I am not waiting a month for them to look around and decided but it all makes perfect sense. Saw this on twitter. Just a random tweet. Someone could just be blowing smoke but if it’s true Ballard has been working on Stafford awhile. 

 

 

This is crazy exciting

 

[lollygagger8 3,334]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

Kind of explains why he broke the new of his retirement thru the San Diego press too. 
 

although I might actually vomit if we go get Stanford or wentz

 

The entire college or just part of it? lol

[NewColtsFan 8,386]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

Kind of explains why he broke the new of his retirement thru the San Diego press too. 
 

although I might actually vomit if we go get Stanford or wentz

Well...    we’re going to get someone!   Who you got in mind?

[NewColtsFan 8,386]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Sorry. It's about 36 mins in. The slider tells you certain segments their talking about.

Yes.....   I found it.   Slider?    I’m podcast illiterate, so I don’t even know what that is,  or how to access it?

 

I’m sorry I gave you such a hard time.  I just hope the next time you’ll just drop that info into your post and make it easy for your readers.  
 

Some of us dogs are slow to learn new tricks!  

 

 

[w87r 5,034]

1 minute ago, shasta519 said:

 

Right...it's not ideal. But that's what it will take imo. Stafford is a great two-year great stopgap for 1/3 of the NFL...which is why we have heard so many teams check in. But some team is going to be willing to commit to him and willing to gamble on those two years...which will weed out those other teams just looking for a great two-year rental. One team says this...and then another team or two join the fray and the bidding process really starts...including draft capital and contractual discussions. Just my take.

I agree on the extension, just the dollar amount on the 3rd/4th or 5th year is the question.

 

No doubt an extension will be agreed upon before they deal.

[NewColtsFan 8,386]

38 minutes ago, gspdx said:

 

So there's a Rivers rate too?  I need to call Jake from State Farm!

Well played, sir!   Bravo!   Nicely done!   

[CR91 6,392]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Yes.....   I found it.   Slider?    I’m podcast illiterate, so I don’t even know what that is,  or how to access it?

 

I’m sorry I gave you such a hard time.  I just hope the next time you’ll just drop that info into your post and make it easy for your readers.  
 

Some of us dogs are slow to learn new tricks!  

 

 

 

Oh sorry. The slider is just moving the timer to a certain point in the video so you don't have to watch or listen to the entire thing.

[Thebrashandthebold 49]

4 hours ago, HOZER said:

I agree with you. Or maybe they had both mutually agreed that he would be one and done...I mean he had already pretty much lined up his coaching job before ever even setting foot in Indy......

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29150960/philip-rivers-coach-alabama-high-school-nfl-days-end%3fplatform=amp

I don't agree. There is no way Rivers would have turned down another $25 million. He will never have the chance to make that kind of money again. I think moving on from him and giving him the chance to just retire is exactly what happened. They were never going anywhere farther with Rivers. They may drop down for a year or two without him while they sort it out. I doubt they will draft a QB (that is a shot in the dark) nor will they used draft picks or trade to obtain someone like Stafford. I look for them to pick up a free agent or someone that would take a low draft pick. This could mean that they are going to Eason to see what they  have in which case they may keep JB. Or they might have another option but I can't see Ballard giving away those draft picks.

 

[BillCoslosky87 1,144]

I don't see it that way at all. I feel like giving Rivers a month to decide his future was plenty of time, and with how soon he came up with the decision to retire, I think that was his intention the moment the Colts were eliminated from the playoffs.

[King Colt 942]

Rivers was signed for one year. He did well in that year and as 99% of the fans knew he is gone after his one year. He will coach high school football and will be happy. 

[Fluke_33 2,616]

1 hour ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

I'm betting 49ers. They can offer a better draft pick and have better trade options than the Colts.

What if the colts offered Johnathan Taylor instead of the 21st pick.  That would get it done i am sure.  It sounds like Dan Campbell wants them to be a running team

[cdgacoltsfan 578]

Just now, Fluke_33 said:

What if the colts offered Johnathan Taylor instead of the 21st pick.  That would get it done i am sure.  It sounds like Dan Campbell wants them to be a running team

No thanks!

[Superman 9,215]

2 hours ago, w87r said:

Tbh, not sure what you are asking?

 

Stafford already was under contract for $33m in 2021. Detroit already paid $13m out in bonuses that is why his cap hit would only be $20m for us if traded here.

 

So he isn't under paid for what QBs make by any means. He had $26m salary next year(2022), which Detroit has to pay $3m of.

 

So he would essentially be double dipping money for this year.

 

 

 

Where are some of these numbers coming from?

[w87r 5,034]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

Where are some of these numbers coming from?

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/matthew-stafford-6078/#

 

 

Those were his cap hits for Detroit for those years.

 

They have to/already did pay $13m for 2021 and $3m for 2022.

[jvan1973 5,351]

9 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

No thanks!

It will take more than that

[Superman 9,215]

7 minutes ago, w87r said:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/matthew-stafford-6078/#

 

 

Those were his cap hits for Detroit for those years.

 

They have to/already did pay $13m for 2021 and $3m for 2022.

 

Got it. That's not how I'd explain it, but now I understand what you're saying.