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4 hours ago, James said:

Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. wins his 7th Super Bowl.


Cementing his GOAT status.

How so?   If super bowl victories are the primary criteria for being a goat he already has that and if they are not then another team win does nothing to improve that status. 
 

it all depends on what criteria is necessary and what each person thinks the greatest is.  Until that is settled or known it is pointless to argue who fits those criteria.  

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Brady's reputation as the best playoff QB in the history of the NFL is pretty much already set in stone.  There are ootner QB who can compete in terms of regular season performance -- Manning, Rodgers, Mahomes-- but in terms of doing what is necessary to get to the playoffs and then perform at a high level once there, the only guy who comes close at the moment is #18 and even Mr Manning is a clear second place finisher.

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If you'd told me as a jerk kid, drinking some nasty booze, playing cards with friends while the Tuck game was on, that Brady was going to drive me as a Colts fan bonkers for the whole of the Manning run and then years later in to 2021... 

Unreal. He's clearly the Goat now.. Groan.

 

 

That said. The Chiefs are winning that game. They have a gear no one else has and if they get into it, they'll win handedly. 

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3 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

How so?   If super bowl victories are the primary criteria for being a goat he already has that and if they are not then another team win does nothing to improve that status. 
 

it all depends on what criteria is necessary and what each person thinks the greatest is.  Until that is settled or known it is pointless to argue who fits those criteria.  

 

To me, he is already the GOAT w.r.t football. To do what he has done for however long he has done it puts him on par with Wayne Gretzky, Michael Jordan and Babe Ruth in other sports, IMO. He has clearly separated himself in terms of playoff record and SB victories and has the regular season stats to go with it.

 

One more ring is not going to change it, one more SB defeat is not going to change it, IMO. His biggest stain might be Belichick that he got associated with and all the doubts/clouds over those early SBs while as a Patriot. That gives people the biggest pause to crown him.

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3 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

How so?   If super bowl victories are the primary criteria for being a goat he already has that and if they are not then another team win does nothing to improve that status. 
 

it all depends on what criteria is necessary and what each person thinks the greatest is.  Until that is settled or known it is pointless to argue who fits those criteria.  


Stop it. Brady not only has the rings but the stats to back it up. 

 

Consensus is Brady = GOAT. 
 

As a Colts fan I have come to accept and realize that Brady has the most convincing argument for GOAT.

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My Takeaways from the 2020 playoffs:

 

-Brady is the goat.

-Refs play a big part in the outcomes of games. Dont care what anyone says ive thought so for many years yesterday was just more proof. 

-NFL got its dream matchup Brady vs Mahomes. Brady and the Bucs first team ever to play on home turf..the story lines go on and on congrats to them

-The Chiefs of 20/21 could be a couple of the best teams in NFL history

 

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18 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

To me, he is already the GOAT w.r.t football. To do what he has done for however long he has done it puts him on par with Wayne Gretzky, Michael Jordan and Babe Ruth in other sports, IMO. He has clearly separated himself in terms of playoff record and SB victories and has the regular season stats to go with it.

 

One more ring is not going to change it, one more SB defeat is not going to change it, IMO. His biggest stain might be Belichick that he got associated with and all the doubts/clouds over those early SBs while as a Patriot. That gives people the biggest pause to crown him.

As far as I know there's exactly zero credible or substantiated rumors about those first 3 rings.  a few insane people refuse to let go of a long-since walked back rumor by bitter Rams players about some kind of locker room bugging incident, that's pretty much the extent of it.  As far as I know Marshall Faulk is literally the only man in the world that actually believes them.

 

The two big cheating scandals with any legs to them are the 2007 Spygate thing, which obviously has no net effect on Brady's legacy because it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Brady, Belichick got smacked down for a technical violation for exactly how he was taping a walkthrough that everyone else was taping too.  It was a front office gaffe almost exclusively.

 

And then there's Deflategate, which frankly in my experience turned into more and more and more of an absolute nothing the more I learned about it. 

 

Best case scenario?  Footballs were deflated, a crime so egregious it happens or is accused of happening nearly every year (IIRC since Deflategate, all of the Steelers, Jets, Giants, Seahawks, Broncos and Bears have had either minor PSI irregularities in their footballs or been accused of having them)

 

Worst case scenario?  The PSI were actually irregular due to the unusually cold weather in the game, and the league bungled the measurements and then tried so hard to refuse to admit it that they dragged one of their stars through the mud for years over what's ultimately an extremely minor violation of the rules.

 

Not actually sure which I prefer, but neither looks particularly good, and starting the whole mess doesn't look good on the Colts either (if you can't win, whine?  That's how we want to be seen?)

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48 minutes ago, James said:


Stop it. Brady not only has the rings but the stats to back it up. 

 

Consensus is Brady = GOAT. 
 

As a Colts fan I have come to accept and realize that Brady has the most convincing argument for GOAT.

Well IMO Sammy Baugh is the GOAT.

Brady has never lead the league in passing, punting and making defensive interceptions in a season.

He is still 2nd all time leader in punting. 

He had one game where he threw for 4 TDs and had 4 defensive interceptions. 

You see, it all can be debated with no one being wrong. 

 

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5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Well IMO Sammy Baugh is the GOAT.

Brady has never lead the league in passing, punting and making defensive interceptions in a season.

He is still 2nd all time leader in punting. 

He had one game where he threw for 4 TDs and had 4 defensive interceptions. 

You see, it all can be debated with no one being wrong. 

 

That's some crazy stuff in your post. Exactly why Greatest of All Time should never be used. Greatest of His Time, is a lot more accurate, in pretty much every Greatest argument.

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12 minutes ago, coltsva said:

That's some crazy stuff in your post. Exactly why Greatest of All Time should never be used. Greatest of His Time, is a lot more accurate, in pretty much every Greatest argument.

What Sammy Baugh did transcends any and every era. 

 

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1 hour ago, Imgrandojji said:

As far as I know there's exactly zero credible or substantiated rumors about those first 3 rings.  a few insane people refuse to let go of a long-since walked back rumor by bitter Rams players about some kind of locker room bugging incident, that's pretty much the extent of it.  As far as I know Marshall Faulk is literally the only man in the world that actually believes them.

 

The two big cheating scandals with any legs to them are the 2007 Spygate thing, which obviously has no net effect on Brady's legacy because it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Brady, Belichick got smacked down for a technical violation for exactly how he was taping a walkthrough that everyone else was taping too.  It was a front office gaffe almost exclusively.

 

 

Spygate's impact was before Spygate was revealed, IMO, that is why it goes back to those first 3 rings. Then articles about Doug Flutie, who was a backup Patriots QB hearing instructions from the sidelines well after the 15 second cutoff for QBs, were also released that created pause for a few folks. The fact that Charlie Weis and Brady, who was not nearly the QB he was now, then, being able to know what was coming from Blitzburgh D in 2001 and 2004. For Hines Ward to suggest the Patriots were calling their defensive plays before it happened, you can view it as sour grapes or believe there is some merit to it. As recently, the filming on the Bengals sidelines they were docked for which does not reflect well on the organization that was already caught for SpyGate. The hiring of a guy Ernie Adams, who had a photographic memory, hired by Belichick, to radio down signals based on their filming, there were articles about it too. He was not an OC or DC but had Belichick's ear. There was way too much smoke to not suspect fire. Whether you believe it or not, it is purely up to you.

 

We won't truly know because Goodell destroyed the tapes of the sideline filming when he was a fledgling commissioner and at that point, the integrity of the league was something he was trying to protect and later, over compensated with excessive punishment towards Patriots for Deflategate, IMO. So, unless Belichick or someone in their staff comes out and admits it, you will never see more proof of it. It has been hashed and re-hashed, so again, I don't wish to participate in too much back and forth on this front, people will believe what they want to believe.  I will leave it at that.

 

But as far as Brady is concerned, what he has done so far reduces that impact, IMO, to cement himself as the GOAT.  That is undeniable to me. First QB to come back from a 10 point deficit in 4th qtr. of SB, first QB come back from 25 points down in a SB, first guy to take a SB to OT and win it, first guy to take a team to a SB in their home team, enough said. The accolades are well deserved. Everyone else in football is a distant second, IMO, in terms of accomplishments.

 

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1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Well IMO Sammy Baugh is the GOAT.

Brady has never lead the league in passing, punting and making defensive interceptions in a season.

He is still 2nd all time leader in punting. 

He had one game where he threw for 4 TDs and had 4 defensive interceptions. 

You see, it all can be debated with no one being wrong. 

 

The thing about being the greatest QB ever and being the greatest all-around player ever are 2 different things. He was a great QB don't get me wrong but you can't factor in that he punted and played defense when ranking just QB play. You are probably right regarding greatest all-around player, greatest QB ever, I would disagree with that.

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I've been conditioned to not like Brady for so long, so I can't root for Bucs. 

 

KC fans are a bunch of bandwagon jumpers and love to talk smack (my neighbor is obnoxious and hails from KC so that helps me hate on KC fans lol) Plus I'm sick and tired of State farm commercials with Mahomes and Rodgers lol. 

 

Plus, Weeknd is going to be the halftime show? puke

 

I probably won't even watch it tbh

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40 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The thing about being the greatest QB ever and being the greatest all-around player ever are 2 different things. He was a great QB don't get me wrong but you can't factor in that he punted and played defense when ranking just QB play. You are probably right regarding greatest all-around player, greatest QB ever, I would disagree with that.

You see when a person breaks down what their opinions of who is what it is on a individual bases.

If its rings then Brady is the best. But it also can be said rings are won by teams, not individuals.

Brady wouldn't have done anything special without great teams around him and that can be said about every QB in the league. 

Talent wise is Brady any better than Marino? better than Manning? better than Montana? better than Mahomes? 

No, not really, just had the better teams he played on in is career. 

The old saying is the QB gets too much credit and too much blame is as true today as it ever was. 

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1 hour ago, coltsva said:

That's some crazy stuff in your post. Exactly why Greatest of All Time should never be used. Greatest of His Time, is a lot more accurate, in pretty much every Greatest argument.

Yes this, when we had the debates of who was better.. Manning and Brady were both playing. And I always thought Manning was better.. than the narrative started changed to this whole GOAT thing... My lord, how can one be the greatest of all time, when not even the best playing today? :dunno:. If you wanna crow him.. then crown him. He was the worst QB out of 4 in the conference championships but lets continue to go back 10 hell 20 years for him.

 

The Chiefs are far superior, just smacked.. I mean smacked the snot out of the "hottest team in the NFL" The whole league drank from the kool aid of Allen, and Brady the last month of the season and playoffs. And overlooked the defending champs. Because they we're blowing out teams or something... Bucs should be happy they made it

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1 hour ago, chad72 said:

The hiring of a guy Ernie Adams, who had a photographic memory, hired by Belichick, to radio down signals based on their filming, there were articles about it too. He was not an OC or DC but had Belichick's ear.

 

See, this is one of the things I don't understand.  No he's not the OC or DC but he's the Patriots' analytics mastermind.  Of course he had Belichick's ear!

 

Belichick found a talented person who could give him a legal edge over his opponents, put him in charge of the film room as the Head of Research and used his insight on the field and this is somehow nefarious?  you can argue about some of the other stuff, but the Ernie Adams conspiracy theories never made sense for me.  There's other people with perfect memories, if you don't like what Belichick is doing with Adams, find your own analytics guy and compete with him.

 

And bluntly, most teams did.  These days it's a rarity for a team to not have an analytics guy in the head coach's ear.

 

If you're going to list every time the Patriots innovated and the league was forced to change how they did things to catch up, as cheating, then you're just bitter IMHO.  Frankly I wish the Colts had been more innovative themselves over the same time frame.  There was no reason to wait for the Patriots to push the tempo, we should have been pushing it ourselves.

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27 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

See, this is one of the things I don't understand.  No he's not the OC or DC but he's the Patriots' analytics mastermind.  Of course he had Belichick's ear!

 

Belichick found a talented person who could give him a legal edge over his opponents, put him in charge of the film room as the Head of Research and used his insight on the field and this is somehow nefarious?  you can argue about some of the other stuff, but the Ernie Adams conspiracy theories never made sense for me.  There's other people with perfect memories, if you don't like what Belichick is doing with Adams, find your own analytics guy and compete with him.

 

And bluntly, most teams did.  These days it's a rarity for a team to not have an analytics guy in the head coach's ear.

 

If you're going to list every time the Patriots innovated and the league was forced to change how they did things to catch up, as cheating, then you're just bitter IMHO.  Frankly I wish the Colts had been more innovative themselves over the same time frame.  There was no reason to wait for the Patriots to push the tempo, we should have been pushing it ourselves.

 

The perfect memory is not my issue, having an analytics guy is not the issue, how the source of data he was provided from the sidelines is the issue of contention. 

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4 hours ago, chad72 said:

One more ring is not going to change it

 

4 hours ago, James said:

Brady not only has the rings but the stats to back it up. 

That's my point.  This game doesn't change anyone's position.  

 

James, you said that if he gets his 7th sb victory it cements his position.  It shouldn't change that position for anyone.  Either way it is argued the 7th one does nothing.  6 are enough or don't matter.  

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22 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

 

That's my point.  This game doesn't change anyone's position.  

 

James, you said that if he gets his 7th sb victory it cements his position.  It shouldn't change that position for anyone.  Either way it is argued the 7th one does nothing.  6 are enough or don't matter.  

 

Agreed 100%

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3 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

The perfect memory is not my issue, having an analytics guy is not the issue, how the source of data he was provided from the sidelines is the issue of contention. 

So it's your contention that no other coaches do their homework, master the film room and make use of scouting tapes?

 

Sorry, still struggling to understand.  I think I might be missing your point but I can't put my figure on exactly what it is.

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5 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

I've been conditioned to not like Brady for so long, so I can't root for Bucs. 

 

KC fans are a bunch of bandwagon jumpers and love to talk smack (my neighbor is obnoxious and hails from KC so that helps me hate on KC fans lol) Plus I'm sick and tired of State farm commercials with Mahomes and Rodgers lol. 

 

Plus, Weekend is going to be the halftime show? puke

 

I probably won't even watch it tbh

 

Comes with winning. I am 100% certain we gained a whole bunch of bandwagon fans once Peyton started winning in Indy. :) 

 

There are certain musical groups that are studio creations that do not translate well to a live concert or audience. I have always wondered why they have never had Metallica but that is the way NFL is.

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16 hours ago, James said:

Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. wins his 7th Super Bowl.


Cementing his GOAT status.

He’s already considered the GOAT.

Universally, with some Colt fans as holdouts .

 

No QB playing has been called the GOAT by everyone except Brady.

NFL players today refer to him as the GOAT.  Never done before. 
 

He is the GOAT, and this game won’t change it.

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6 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Spygate's impact was before Spygate was revealed, IMO, that is why it goes back to those first 3 rings. Then articles about Doug Flutie, who was a backup Patriots QB hearing instructions from the sidelines well after the 15 second cutoff for QBs, were also released that created pause for a few folks. The fact that Charlie Weis and Brady, who was not nearly the QB he was now, then, being able to know what was coming from Blitzburgh D in 2001 and 2004. For Hines Ward to suggest the Patriots were calling their defensive plays before it happened, you can view it as sour grapes or believe there is some merit to it. As recently, the filming on the Bengals sidelines they were docked for which does not reflect well on the organization that was already caught for SpyGate. The hiring of a guy Ernie Adams, who had a photographic memory, hired by Belichick, to radio down signals based on their filming, there were articles about it too. He was not an OC or DC but had Belichick's ear. There was way too much smoke to not suspect fire. Whether you believe it or not, it is purely up to you.

 

We won't truly know because Goodell destroyed the tapes of the sideline filming when he was a fledgling commissioner and at that point, the integrity of the league was something he was trying to protect and later, over compensated with excessive punishment towards Patriots for Deflategate, IMO. So, unless Belichick or someone in their staff comes out and admits it, you will never see more proof of it. It has been hashed and re-hashed, so again, I don't wish to participate in too much back and forth on this front, people will believe what they want to believe.  I will leave it at that.

 

But as far as Brady is concerned, what he has done so far reduces that impact, IMO, to cement himself as the GOAT.  That is undeniable to me. First QB to come back from a 10 point deficit in 4th qtr. of SB, first QB come back from 25 points down in a SB, first guy to take a SB to OT and win it, first guy to take a team to a SB in their home team, enough said. The accolades are well deserved. Everyone else in football is a distant second, IMO, in terms of accomplishments.

 

That first entire paragraph is a great bunch of lies and misinformation.

Well done.

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6 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

You see when a person breaks down what their opinions of who is what it is on a individual bases.

If its rings then Brady is the best. But it also can be said rings are won by teams, not individuals.

Brady wouldn't have done anything special without great teams around him and that can be said about every QB in the league. 

Talent wise is Brady any better than Marino? better than Manning? better than Montana? better than Mahomes? 

No, not really, just had the better teams he played on in is career. 

The old saying is the QB gets too much credit and too much blame is as true today as it ever was. 

Of course it is all opinion. I just think it is a combination of things when ranking QB's. It isn't about 1 thing or another, it is a combination like Stats, MVP's, being a game changer, and IMO if you are considered one of the greatest QB's ever than he should win a Ring or 2 to complete the resume. One reason why almost nobody considers Marino the GOAT is because he has 0 Rings. Fair or not fair that is just how most people think.

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