danlhart87 7,392 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 3 hours ago, CR91 said: Depends what Golladay wants. 15-17 mil possible. 18-20 mil no Even at 15 no 1 Link to post Share on other sites
edindetroit 2 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 18 hours ago, Orioles22 said: I'm not putting my faith in any rookie quarterback not named Lawrence. That's why we need Stafford and let Eason develop for a few years. I was wishing the Lions would have done that with Stafford here in Detroit. Get a young guy in and develop him. It worked for Green Bay. Now we are heading into typical Lions territory where we have to throw the rookie in and wish him luck. Hopefully this new brain trust they have will do a better job. Link to post Share on other sites
OffensivelyPC 1,111 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Say what you will about the Texans or Jets being amongst the most undesirable head coach jobs to land, but for a player, it's gotta be most undesirable for players, right? Barry Sanders, Megatron and now Stafford wanting out. At least for once Detroit is open to the idea of trading a player. Link to post Share on other sites
edindetroit 2 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 16 hours ago, CR91 said: Elite? Elite is top 3 in the league which Stafford has never been in his whole career. Just stop. Link to post Share on other sites
Valpo2004 1,572 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 I like Stafford but the trade could get pricey with this many teams in the mix to trade for him. A lot of teams with a lot higher draft picks than ours. The only thing that could be said was that if Stafford was given some say in where he wanted to go, Indy might be a place that he would consider more than the other teams. But if the team just trades him based on who provides the best deal. . . I'm not sure we could compete. Link to post Share on other sites
Nesjan3 674 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 23 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said: Say what you will about the Texans or Jets being amongst the most undesirable head coach jobs to land, but for a player, it's gotta be most undesirable for players, right? Barry Sanders, Megatron and now Stafford wanting out. At least for once Detroit is open to the idea of trading a player. I think its widely knows around the league in front office circles that the Ford family is completely incompetent when it comes to running a "Football Operation". Their in it for the money. I think Houston and Cincy are starting to slowly drop into those categories as well. Lombardi talks about it all the time on his podcast. Mcnair over in Houston has a religious figure in his ear giving him football advice lol. Not trying to offend anyone and this isnt my take but the word brainwash has been thrown around. As far as the Jets at least it seems like they are willing to do what it takes to try and win. Link to post Share on other sites
throwing BBZ 1,147 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 17 hours ago, rockywoj said: I have a looser definition of elite, than you. Top 10 talent, for sure. Plus methinks you are wrongly equating team success, or lack thereof, as being reflective of Stafford being meh. I was listening recently (a few weeks ago) to Aaron Rodgers on the Patty Mac show and Rodgers was saying that the public just has no clue as to just how special Stafford is. That he can make throws that blows Rodgers mind. That there’s maybe one guy with the arm talent of Stafford, and we know who that is. Mahomes Brady Rogers Wilson Watson All Elite Rothlesburger was through 11 games. Link to post Share on other sites
lollygagger8 3,331 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Even though I think he should step up to the plate on this one, I just don't see Ballard getting into a bidding war with other teams for Stafford Who are the other teams? If I had to guess: Washington Broncos Steelers Pats Link to post Share on other sites
MikeCurtis 2,245 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 IMHO.... Stafford is worth a 22nd 1st round pick and MAYBE a conditional 2nd rd NEXT year, to balance a bit against an offer from other teams If its much more than that..... time to look elsewhere. At his age, he just isnt worth 2 1's (At least in my view) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
chad72 7,134 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 14 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said: Even though I think he should step up to the plate on this one, I just don't see Ballard getting into a bidding war with other teams for Stafford Who are the other teams? If I had to guess: Washington Broncos Steelers Pats Steelers in cap hell that need to sort out their OL, Broncos not a team I see Stafford going to because of their OL and Mahomes in the division, Patriots I doubt Stafford wants to be reunited with Patricia. AFC South is most winnable, so is NFC East. Lions would prefer him out of the NFC unless WFT blows them away with 2 first rounders. So, I think it boils down to WFT and Indy. Ballard would not give up 2 first rounders, I am certain, neither will WFT. I think it will end up being a 1st and a 2nd from Indy because we pick later but WFT's 1st and 2nd would trump that and Lions would play him every 3 years or every other year depending on where each other finish in their division. They will play Indy every 4 years and we just played them last year. We will see. Stafford would prefer us over WFT, IMO. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
chad72 7,134 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 12 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said: IMHO.... Stafford is worth a 22nd 1st round pick and MAYBE a conditional 2nd rd NEXT year, to balance a bit against an offer from other teams If its much more than that..... time to look elsewhere. At his age, he just isnt worth 2 1's (At least in my view) Agree. That is the most they will get for him (1st and future 2nd) and they won't get more for him if they hold on to him longer. Once the team came out and made it public he wants to leave, I don't think the ball is in their court whatsoever for 2 first rounders, they can forget that pipe dream. I would even be open to giving up Darius Leonard and a 2nd rounder for Stafford if that preserves a lot of picks for us but I don't think Ballard would. Link to post Share on other sites
rockywoj 992 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 33 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said: Mahomes Brady Rogers Wilson Watson All Elite Rothlesburger was through 11 games. Indeed, buuuuut ... Matthew Stafford 2020 stat line: 528 339 4,084 7.7 64.2% 26 10 96.3 For being on a crap team, once again he is really impressive. As I said in an earlier post, if you are to believe what one of the league’s best QBs has to say about Stafford’s talent level, Stafford just might be a good “team” away from having his game elevated to the “elite” status and recognition you speak of. Hence, I will go with the idea that he is an elite talent that’s been wallowing away in the obscurity of an atrocious franchise. To me, he is DEFINITELY worth giving up the Colts’s first round pick for. Frank Reich on Stafford from this past season (as reported by 1075TheFan.com) ... “He has elite arm talent,” Reich said of Stafford back in November, when the Colts were preparing to face the Lions. “He’s one of those handful of guys, that you say, ‘There’s guys that have a really good arm and then there’s guys that have elite arm strength and arm talent.’ He’s one of those guys. He’s fun to watch. He makes big plays.” As for this thought that the Colts should give up a current player like Darius Leonard, imho, absolutely not! You don’t gut one aspect of your team to add at another. That’s just spinning wheels. You want to ADD to the existing so as to be able to take the next step. Giving up a 1st rounder to add a ready to go QB that possesses elite talent, that would be as easy a trade to make as the Buckner trade was last year. My fingers are crossed hoping that the acquisition of Stafford happens. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
richard pallo 2,572 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 56 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said: IMHO.... Stafford is worth a 22nd 1st round pick and MAYBE a conditional 2nd rd NEXT year, to balance a bit against an offer from other teams If its much more than that..... time to look elsewhere. At his age, he just isnt worth 2 1's (At least in my view) I think Stafford is worth a 1st round pick and more. You keep working it until the trade is done. This is not the time to split hairs. The teams interested will have similar offers. If there picks are lower than ours then we have to give up a little more. This is a gift horse in the mouth. I think Ballard will get it done. This is a no brainer for us. Link to post Share on other sites
danlhart87 7,392 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 minute ago, richard pallo said: I think Stafford is worth a 1st round pick and more. You keep working it until the trade is done. This is not the time to split hairs. The teams interested will have similar offers. If there picks are lower than ours then we have to give up a little more. This is a gift horse in the mouth. I think Ballard will get it done. This is a no brainer for us. Id offer 21 1 and 22 3 If they want more than no deal Link to post Share on other sites
richard pallo 2,572 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 16 minutes ago, danlhart87 said: Id offer 21 1 and 22 3 If they want more than no deal I think it will take more than that. Since they only have five picks this year I think they would want two from this year. Our 1st and 4th and then our 2nd in 22. I think that would have a great chance of getting it done. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
danlhart87 7,392 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 minute ago, richard pallo said: I think it will take more than that. Since they only have five picks this year I think they would want two from this year. Our 1st and 4th and then our 2nd in 22. I think that would have a great chance of getting it done. I'd offer an incentive like make it a 2nd in 22 if Colts win South Link to post Share on other sites
w87r 5,017 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 5 minutes ago, richard pallo said: I think it will take more than that. Since they only have five picks this year I think they would want two from this year. Our 1st and 4th and then our 2nd in 22. I think that would have a great chance of getting it done. You been reading my Stafford mock? That's what I have listed, well a 2022 3rd that can turn into a 2nd, with 2021 1st and 4th. Probably will be what it takes. Hopefully less but seems adequate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NFLfan 8,297 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 5 hours ago, edindetroit said: I was wishing the Lions would have done that with Stafford here in Detroit. Get a young guy in and develop him. It worked for Green Bay. Now we are heading into typical Lions territory where we have to throw the rookie in and wish him luck. Hopefully this new brain trust they have will do a better job. May I interest you in a trade for a Michigan native, Kirk Cousins? ;) Welcome to the forum! What do you think of the front office and coaching moves by your team so far? Getting John Dorsey is a very good move. The guy has a great eye for talent. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Fluke_33 2,608 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, tvturner said: @Chloe6124 called that one Link to post Share on other sites
Fluke_33 2,608 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 I have a friend who is a lions fan. I offered a 1st round pick and a pint of beer for stafford and he accepted so we’re set. My only question is do I send the bill for the beer to irsay or Ballard? Pete ward? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
IndyD4U 714 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 The question is how long does this take to shake out? This week? 2-3 weeks? April? I say 2-3 weeks 1 Link to post Share on other sites
w87r 5,017 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 3 minutes ago, IndyD4U said: The question is how long does this take to shake out? This week? 2-3 weeks? April? I say 2-3 weeks Has to be done by March 22nd or Detroit owes Stafford $10m more dollars. Cant officially happen until March 17th. Can be agreed on unofficially at anytime prior though. Link to post Share on other sites
richard pallo 2,572 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 minutes ago, w87r said: Has to be done by March 22nd or Detroit owes Stafford $10m more dollars. Cant officially happen until March 17th. Can be agreed on unofficially at anytime prior though. Prediction. This trade will be in place by the Friday before the SB. 49 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said: @Chloe6124 called that one So did I. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
danlhart87 7,392 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 I will say if it does happen will on this great day 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Orioles22 283 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 No one is talking about other players being included, but my guess is Ballard doesn't want to give up multiple picks. I could see a player or two included. Link to post Share on other sites
danlhart87 7,392 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 minute ago, Orioles22 said: No one is talking about other players being included, but my guess is Ballard doesn't want to give up multiple picks. I could see a player or two included. Who would that include Link to post Share on other sites
Orioles22 283 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 it would just be a guess, but I think that could help finalize a deal with another starter, or maybe two. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky Wolf 48 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 54 minutes ago, danlhart87 said: Who would that include Since they are probably going to lose Golladay my guess is they would want Pittman or Campbell. Then we turn around and sign Golladay Link to post Share on other sites
BProland85 1,388 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 I'm still under the belief Ballard could snatch Stafford for a 2nd, possibly with adding another mid round pick in the mix. If he plays his cards right and doesn't panic, he could catch Detroit just before Stafford is due his $10 mil roster bonus, and when they are trying to unload him for a package they want, but aren't getting. So many teams now are trying to find their young franchise guy at QB, and this draft has probably 4-5 of them in round 1. If you read the article below, it shows what I have believed. That Detroit has lost leverage since Stafford said he wants to be traded. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2021/01/26/matthew-stafford-detroit-lions-trade-request/4252707001/ 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TomDiggs 395 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 4 minutes ago, BProland85 said: I'm still under the belief Ballard could snatch Stafford for a 2nd, possibly with adding another mid round pick in the mix. If he plays his cards right and doesn't panic, he could catch Detroit just before Stafford is due his $10 mil roster bonus, and when they are trying to unload him for a package they want, but aren't getting. So many teams now are trying to find their young franchise guy at QB, and this draft has probably 4-5 of them in round 1. If you read the article below, it shows what I have believed. That Detroit has lost leverage since Stafford said he wants to be traded. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2021/01/26/matthew-stafford-detroit-lions-trade-request/4252707001/ I would personally love if this were true, so I really hope you are right on this. That would be fantastic. However, in a QB driven league, I think that at the absolute bare minimum the Lions are getting at least a 1st rounder for Stafford and I truly believe it is going to end up being a minimum of two picks in the first 2 rounds. The challenge for the Colts is that the teams who might also want him if they play hard ball on a 1st rounder likely will have better second rounders than us as well. Denver, SF, NE, Wash, Chi.....if they played hard ball and only offered a 2nd then the Colts would need to offer a 2nd and more to sweeten the deal. Then you have teams picking later in the first like New Orleans or even Pitt (if Ben retires or is let go w his massive $40+M cap figure) who are still built to win now and could easily decide they'd given up a 1st rounder for a 33 year old QB who has 5+ years left. At the end of the day, age is not a factor here for me. We are starting to see QBs play successfully all the way into their late 30s and some early 40s, which used to be unheard of. If you figure QBs in the modern era are showing the ability to play well without dropping off until age 38 and beyond that is still a 5 year window. In this day and age 5 years is a huge window. Things change so much in 5 years time that to look beyond those 5 years is crazy. Entire staffs turn over in that time. Heck a few years ago the Jags were spending money hand over first. When it didn't work, they tore it down and now are going to rebuild w tons of cap space and a top pick and it has all happened in less than 5 years. So if we look at just the next 5 years, Stafford to me is worth a bare minimum of a 1st and a 2nd. Will we spend it? I don't know. But I think somebody will. If it is not us, we will likely have to give up much, much more to move up from pick 21 towards the top-10 in order to get a young and unproven guy. I would rather give up 21 and another pick for Stafford if that is the case. Link to post Share on other sites
NorthernColt 142 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 22 hours ago, chad72 said: Agree. That is the most they will get for him (1st and future 2nd) and they won't get more for him if they hold on to him longer. Once the team came out and made it public he wants to leave, I don't think the ball is in their court whatsoever for 2 first rounders, they can forget that pipe dream. I would even be open to giving up Darius Leonard and a 2nd rounder for Stafford if that preserves a lot of picks for us but I don't think Ballard would. What an insane statement. You'd rather keep drafts and trade Leonard, to HOPE one of those draft picks become Leonard. I love draft picks as much as the next guy, but some people over value draft picks like crazy. Its like the family guy episode, where he has to pick between the Yacht or the mystery box and he goes, "yeah but the mystery box could be anything, it could even be a Yacht!" 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Orioles22 283 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 How about Hines, Ya-Sin, a third and a sixth. Link to post Share on other sites
BProland85 1,388 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 14 hours ago, Lucky Wolf said: Since they are probably going to lose Golladay my guess is they would want Pittman or Campbell. Then we turn around and sign Golladay No chance we give up a young starting piece I would hope. Pittman is too important to give up. Link to post Share on other sites
shasta519 2,825 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 21 minutes ago, NorthernColt said: What an insane statement. You'd rather keep drafts and trade Leonard, to HOPE one of those draft picks become Leonard. I love draft picks as much as the next guy, but some people over value draft picks like crazy. Its like the family guy episode, where he has to pick between the Yacht or the mystery box and he goes, "yeah but the mystery box could be anything, it could even be a Yacht!" To play devil's advocate...it's not that simple. Leonard is about to get a monster second contract. We don't know what that will be...but I am going to assume it will reset the LB market. Whether a LB is worth the contract he will get...is probably worth a separate discussion. But back to the trade...using Leonard (in place of draft capital) allows you shed that contract obligation AND save your 1st round pick (that would have went in the Stafford deal) to use on a talented replacement (or another position). The difference between a rookie deal and Leonard's second contract will save a lot of cap space (that can be used to offset Stafford's contract or be used to supplement the team elsewhere). Of course, in this hypothetical, you have to be able to replace Leonard's production. That will be tough...especially his leadership. However, there seems to be talented WILLS entering the NFL every year...so perhaps you could find one that is a tier below. So the drop down from Leonard to whomever is more than balanced out by the step up Stafford...and you save some cap space and keep your pick. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
danlhart87 7,392 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 3 minutes ago, BProland85 said: No chance we give up a young starting piece I would hope. Pittman is too important to give up. Yes just keep MPJ Link to post Share on other sites
shasta519 2,825 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 52 minutes ago, Orioles22 said: How about Hines, Ya-Sin, a third and a sixth. For Darnold? That might work. Link to post Share on other sites
shasta519 2,825 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 25 minutes ago, BProland85 said: No chance we give up a young starting piece I would hope. Pittman is too important to give up. Not MPJ...but if they somehow valued Campbell in place of a Day 2 pick...see ya. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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