Poll - QB Preference (now that PR has officially retired) (merge)

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, John Waylon said:

March 17. The legal tampering window opens a few days before, but even agreed to deals can still fall through before the 17th. 

1 day after this 

 

 

Same day as this 

 

 

Thanks 

Just now, krunk said:

Based on Franks commentary he thinks Wentz skill level is elite.

He has the credentials to be. The key is will his horrible attitude change and will he work hard enough to improve. 

[Smoke317]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

Like i said i hope we get the trade done. I cant go with the majority of these haters. Bro has a few issues, but hes a baller.

You don’t give up major draft capital for a QB with a few issues and his price tag.  Especially if we’re basing everything off of his peak performance 4 years ago.  He’s regressed every year since then.  Poor decision making. Atrocious mechanics.  Sub par accuracy (very tight end dependent).  Maybe the league has just figured him out now and know how to defend him?

[danlhart87]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

Like i said i hope we get the trade done. I cant go with the majority of these haters. Bro has a few issues, but hes a baller.

It might happen but supposedly the Colts are married to idea of keeping him more than two years. If we are trading draft capital for a guy I hope they decide hes the guy for many years. 

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, Smoke317 said:

You don’t give up major draft capital for a QB with a few issues and his price tag.  Especially if we’re basing everything off of his peak performance 4 years ago.  He’s regressed every year since then.  Poor decision making. Atrocious mechanics.  Sub par accuracy (very tight end dependent).  Maybe the league has just figured him out now and know how to defend him?

The price tag is big for me. If Ballard got him without sacrificing 21 then go for it. 

[w87r]

55 minutes ago, csmopar said:

The offers are probably very close in value and the eagles are simply leaking all this stuff trying like hell to drive the price up.

So you're saying Vin Fosh is actually posting info he has received, or nah?

[Smoke317]

Just now, danlhart87 said:

The price tag is big for me. If Ballard got him without sacrificing 21 then go for it. 

I wouldn’t give up more than a 3rd for him.

[danlhart87]

Just now, Smoke317 said:

I wouldn’t give up more than a 3rd for him.

That would be highway robbery 

[The Fish]

I want Wilson, but Seattle is going to want a price that's simply not realistic.

Ryan is more possible than some think, but he only has a few years left where you can foresee quality play.

Wentz is Wentz- could be the circumstances around him or he got hurt, lost his mojo, doesn't move as well as he did at first and as going to need lot's of protection and scheming to keep him schedule. That's the kind of game you don't wana pay a premium to aquire via trade.

[Smoke317]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

That would be highway robbery 

Which is exactly what the Eagles deserve for playing games & trying to drive up his price.  Stall them out.  They’ll come begging us to take him off their hands later or they can keep him or trade him elsewhere.  Choice is theirs.  They have no leverage.  If they want some serious draft capital and young talent in a trade, then it’s the 6th pick we should be after not Wentz.

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, Smoke317 said:

Which is exactly what the Eagles deserve for playing games & trying to drive up his price.  Stall them out.  They’ll come begging us to take him off their hands later or they can keep him or trade him elsewhere.  Choice is theirs.  They have no leverage.  If they want some serious draft capital and young talent in a trade, then it’s the 6th pick we should be after not Wentz.

it would take quite a lot to get 6

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

1 day after this 

 

 

Same day as this 

 

 

Thanks 

He has the credentials to be. The key is will his horrible attitude change and will he work hard enough to improve. 

Honest question.

 

What has Wentz actually said or done that makes you think his attitude is bad?

 

Do you think Wilson's attitude is bad?

 

Do you think Watson's attitude is bad?

 

I have never heard or seen statements Wentz has made about the Eagles, but I have read things Wilson has said about his team, and of course Watson.

 

AFAIK, they are all from teams that have bad olines, where they have to run for their lives.  Some level of dysfunction.

 

What's the difference?  Watson and Wilson are better, did not get benched, so they have enough cred to ask for changes, but Wentz cannot because he had a bad season?

 

I think its just piling on one, and avoiding criticizing others.  But maybe not.

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

It might happen but supposedly the Colts are married to idea of keeping him more than two years. If we are trading draft capital for a guy I hope they decide hes the guy for many years. 

They do believe hes a franchise guy but you can tell they are taking the proper adjustments for the risk in the deal by trying to make things easy to get out if need be in 2 years. Im all for keeping him long term if it works. Hes an elite athlete. 4 yrs ago wasnt the last time weve seen him put up good numbers.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

it would take quite a lot to get 6

Too much

[danlhart87]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Honest question.

 

What has Wentz actually said or done that makes you think his attitude is bad?

 

Do you think Wilson's attitude is bad?

 

Do you think Watson's attitude is bad?

 

I have never heard or seen statements Wentz has made about the Eagles, but I have read things Wilson has said about his team, and of course Watson.

 

AFAIK, they are all from teams that have bad olines, where they have to run for their lives.  Some level of dysfunction.

 

What's the difference?  Watson and Wilson are better, did not get benched, so they have enough cred to ask for changes, but Wentz cannot because he had a bad season?

 

I think its just piling on one, and avoiding criticizing others.  But maybe not.

One of the reasons he was benched supposedly besides his awful play was his poor attitude . Obviously the media lies so I dont want to believe.

 

Wentz gave the impression of a poor teammate even when he was the backup. That could stem from wanting out possibly. 

 

I'm not 100% on the issue but I do know when JB got the backup role he handled it very well.

 

I'm not advocating we make JB starter BTW 

[The Fish]

Anyone think that perhaps Andrew Luck's retirement/perception that he wasn't provided for properly is influencing this wave of QB's expressing dissatisfaction with the direction of their respective teams?

 

I've thought for awhile now that perhaps (and I dunno) that Luck would have done better to express some concerns publicly. They certainly had to exist.. I see guys doing it now, for better or worse.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

One of the reasons he was benched supposedly besides his awful play was his poor attitude . Obviously the media lies so I dont want to believe.

 

Wentz gave the impression of a poor teammate even when he was the backup. 

That could stem from wanting out possibly. 

 

I'm not 100% on the issue but I do know when JB got the backup role he handled it very well.

 

I'm not advocating we make JB starter BTW 

Here is the difference 

  JB lost the starting QB job multiple Times

  CW had always been the man

3 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Anyone think that perhaps Andrew Luck's retirement/perception that he wasn't provided for properly is influencing this wave of QB's expressing dissatisfaction with the direction of their respective teams?

 

I've thought for awhile now that perhaps (and I dunno) that Luck would have done better to express some concerns publicly. They certainly had to exist.. I see guys doing it now, for better or worse.

No

[The Fish]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

 

No

Ok

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

One of the reasons he was benched supposedly besides his awful play was his poor attitude . Obviously the media lies so I dont want to believe.

 

Wentz gave the impression of a poor teammate even when he was the backup. That could stem from wanting out possibly. 

 

I'm not 100% on the issue but I do know when JB got the backup role he handled it very well.

 

I'm not advocating we make JB starter BTW 

I'm not saying its not true, of course.  I have no idea.

 

Just asking that if you listed all of the tweets and public statements made by these guys and judged for ourselves, I'd think we'd think that Wentz had the best attitude of the three, not the worst.

 

It why I said upstream, maybe someone like JosiaAnderson spread an offhand comment made by a Philly player.

[csmopar]

21 minutes ago, w87r said:

So you're saying Vin Fosh is actually posting info he has received, or nah?

No, I’m talking about the other articles that are scattered here or there. I’m not taking anything Fosh has said as remotely credible. 

[danlhart87]

Just now, DougDew said:

I'm not saying its not true, of course.  I have no idea.

 

Just asking that if you listed all of the tweets and public statements made by these guys and judged for ourselves, I'd think we'd think that Wentz had the best attitude of the three, not the worst.

 

It why I said upstream, maybe someone like JosiaAnderson spread an offhand comment made by a Philly player.

I don't care much for the attitudes of players in general who have multi million dollar contracts. Some have such poor attitudes.

 

I don't talk about Russ or Deshaun much cause there's no possible way they come here 

[w87r]

12 minutes ago, csmopar said:

No, I’m talking about the other articles that are scattered here or there. I’m not taking anything Fosh has said as remotely credible. 

The other articles that Fosh beat them to the punch on?

 

 

For the record Im not saying Fosh is credible. Just saying everything is rumor until it is fact.

[aaron11]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

I wouldn’t pull any offer made, but I would definitely stop listening and put a time limit on it. Here’s the thing, Ballard is not the type to get in a bidding war. My guess is he made what he feels is a solid, fair offer, bears probably did the same. The offers are probably very close in value and the eagles are simply leaking all this stuff trying like hell to drive the price up. I’d bet that he’s not raised his offer at all. 

I could see a bidding war for someone like Wilson or Watson, but not for Wentz

 

I could take or leave Wentz, so that means a take it or leave it offer. 

[danlhart87]

3 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

I could see a bidding war for someone like Wilson or Watson, but not for Wentz

 

I could take or leave Wentz, so that means a take it or leave it offer. 

Chances of getting the top 2 are

 

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

Chances of getting the top 2 are

 

I think it’s slightly higher than that but will be cost prohibitive 

[danlhart87]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I think it’s slightly higher than that but will be cost prohibitive 

It will be way too expensive for either 

[richard pallo]

Thinking out loud and about Reich in particular.  We know he got his man Rivers last year.  We think we kicked the tires on Stafford but that got too pricey.  And we know Wentz is now Reich's number one target this year.  Assuming the Wentz trade does not go down who do you think would be Reich's second choice for this year?  No pie in the sky Watson or Wilson stuff.  But a QB that Ballard would be willing to trade for if Reich thought he could be the catalyst for another SB run.  The team is ready to make a run now who would be the next man up on Reich's list? Ballard got him Rivers and tried for Wentz.  Who's next?  

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Thinking out loud and about Reich in particular.  We know he got his man Rivers last year.  We think we kicked the tires on Stafford but that got too pricey.  And we know Wentz is now Reich's number one target this year.  Assuming the Wentz trade does not go down who do you think would be Reich's second choice for this year?  No pie in the sky Watson or Wilson stuff.  But a QB that Ballard would be willing to trade for if Reich thought he could be the catalyst for another SB run.  The team is ready to make a run now who would be the next man up on Reich's list? Ballard got him Rivers and tried for Wentz.  Who's next?  

I think Trubisky would do well here 

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I'm not saying its not true, of course.  I have no idea.

 

Just asking that if you listed all of the tweets and public statements made by these guys and judged for ourselves, I'd think we'd think that Wentz had the best attitude of the three, not the worst.

 

It why I said upstream, maybe someone like JosiaAnderson spread an offhand comment made by a Philly player.

You are really hung up on Josina Anderson.    

[Smoke317]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Honest question.

 

What has Wentz actually said or done that makes you think his attitude is bad?

 

Do you think Wilson's attitude is bad?

 

Do you think Watson's attitude is bad?

 

I have never heard or seen statements Wentz has made about the Eagles, but I have read things Wilson has said about his team, and of course Watson.

 

AFAIK, they are all from teams that have bad olines, where they have to run for their lives.  Some level of dysfunction.

 

What's the difference?  Watson and Wilson are better, did not get benched, so they have enough cred to ask for changes, but Wentz cannot because he had a bad season?

 

I think its just piling on one, and avoiding criticizing others.  But maybe not.

The differences I see between them is that Watson & Wilson are airing their grievances after the season.  Wentz got benched for poor play (which I don’t remember him taking full ownership of) and instead of being a good teammate and looking to get out of there after the season, it leaked that he wanted out of Philly within a week.  Why do that while the team was still in the playoff hunt?  
 

It became all about him.  Yet we haven’t heard anything from him directly but we keep getting leaks that are clearly driven by him & his agent.  I don’t trust that passive aggressive approach to getting what he wants.  Seems disingenuous.  At least Watson is being upfront & direct.  Wilson has always had a chameleon personality to me.  We’ll see how this new more outspoken Russ plays out.  I’m a little wary of Russ.  Always have been. 

 

Back to Wentz.  Yes his line was bad but when you looked at the numbers he was lower mid pack in time he had to throw in the pocket.  He either just didn’t trust his eyes or the play calling and thus would hold the ball too long or try to exit the pocket too early causing sacks & poor throws & interceptions.  Then Ertz not being there as a security blanket helped things completely fall apart.  Rookie like mistakes.  But Wentz is no rookie.  
 

He’s a highly paid, near mvp level performing QB who’s had 4 years of NFL starting experience right?  He isn’t supposed to be regressing.  He’s supposed to be ascending. Taking players (besides just Ertz) and making them better.  And if the team fails you can honestly assess the team and say that guy did everything he could every Sunday to succeed.  That guy may not have been perfect but he clearly doesn’t deserve a huge chunk of the blame.  We as a fan base should know what that guy looks like because we’ve seen him over the past 25 years in QB’s like Manning & Luck.  From what we’ve seen and heard, from the outside looking in, can we say the same about Wentz?  I personally don’t think we can.  
 

But let’s say we do end up getting him, I think we’d have to change up the offense.  I posted elsewhere how Eagles receivers Ward & Fulgham had very comparable numbers (more TD’s & similar yards) to Pascal & Pittman but they were forced to play with Wentz & not Rivers.  So are our receivers really better where we expect them to lift Wentz up?  It could happen but Wentz has seemed to favor his tight ends more than receivers anyway.
 

If we bring in Wentz, I think we’d run more 2 tight end sets.  It’d be nice to have a dynamic one at that position because he’s gonna get a lot of targets.  That could make our running game with Taylor and Hines more effective.  I think it could limit our big play explosiveness on the outside though.  I’m gonna take a peek at the tight ends in this years draft.  If we can get Wentz for a 3rd, it might be beneficial to grab a beastly tight end in round 2.  Or maybe target Henry in free agency?  The key to this looooong post is don’t give up more than a 3rd for Wentz.

 

 

[Smoke317]

54 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Thinking out loud and about Reich in particular.  We know he got his man Rivers last year.  We think we kicked the tires on Stafford but that got too pricey.  And we know Wentz is now Reich's number one target this year.  Assuming the Wentz trade does not go down who do you think would be Reich's second choice for this year?  No pie in the sky Watson or Wilson stuff.  But a QB that Ballard would be willing to trade for if Reich thought he could be the catalyst for another SB run.  The team is ready to make a run now who would be the next man up on Reich's list? Ballard got him Rivers and tried for Wentz.  Who's next?  

I’d hate to leave it solely up to Reich and what he wants.  But I think he’d want Ryan and then Carr as top 2 choices.  Cousins could slide up into that group.  Trubisky & Darnold would be his project choices.  Foles would be his fallback option.  I think Foles could be the guy we get as a bridge to a drafted QB or Eason.  
 

Worst case scenario would be that if Eason (or drafted QB) can’t beat out Foles then you know we have to keep looking. Best case scenario is that Eason (or drafted QB) takes the spot from Foles and balls out.  But if the young ace begins to falter we’d have the perfect relief pitcher to come in and make a playoff run and close the show in Foles.

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I’d hate to leave it solely up to Reich and what he wants.  But I think he’d want Ryan and then Carr as top 2 choices.  Cousins could slide up into that group.  Trubisky & Darnold would be his project choices.  Foles would be his fallback option.  I think Foles could be the guy we get as a bridge to a drafted QB or Eason.  
 

Worst case scenario would be that if Eason (or drafted QB) can’t beat out Foles then you know we have to keep looking. Best case scenario is that Eason (or drafted QB) takes the spot from Foles and balls out.  But if the young ace begins to falter we’d have the perfect relief pitcher to come in and make a playoff run and close the show in Foles.

Carr isn't available unfortunately 

[chickenMan]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

Chances of getting the top 2 are

 

I don’t know about that, things are moving much quicker than anticipated with Wilson and the Seahawks. Apparently neither side is happy

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I’d hate to leave it solely up to Reich and what he wants.  But I think he’d want Ryan and then Carr as top 2 choices.  Cousins could slide up into that group.  Trubisky & Darnold would be his project choices.  Foles would be his fallback option.  I think Foles could be the guy we get as a bridge to a drafted QB or Eason.  
 

Worst case scenario would be that if Eason (or drafted QB) can’t beat out Foles then you know we have to keep looking. Best case scenario is that Eason (or drafted QB) takes the spot from Foles and balls out.  But if the young ace begins to falter we’d have the perfect relief pitcher to come in and make a playoff run and close the show in Foles.

I  agree.  That is where I am.  I think Reich knows he can win with a veteran and Ryan fits the MO just like Rivers and Brady.  Atlanta is in the perfect position to start a rebuild with a QB so I would think they would be open to garnering more picks.  Stafford is like four years younger so I don't think Ryan's cost would be prohibitive for us.  I hope we make this happen.  If we get him we are right away contenders again.  

[TheMose]

Why do people feel the need to tell us they wouldn't give more than an absurdly low amount of draft capital to get Wentz? We get it, you aren't a GM and have no idea how to value a player. If somebody could acquire a former 2nd overall pick with a recent MVP level season and 1 bad year for any less than a 3rd, several teams would be throwing their hat in the ring. 

[danlhart87]

Isn't it odd how many 1 2 and 3 picks could trade teams this year

 

Goff and Stafford already did 

Trubisky 

Wentz 

Winston 

Mariota 

Darnold 

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Isn't it odd how many 1 2 and 3 picks could trade teams this year

 

Goff and Stafford already did 

Trubisky 

Wentz 

Winston 

Mariota 

Darnold 

Kinda shows how risky it is to anchor your team around a QB drafted in the first round.  At least super high.

[Dingus McGirt]

[PrincetonTiger]

8 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Isn't it odd how many 1 2 and 3 picks could trade teams this year

 

Goff and Stafford already did 

Trubisky 

Wentz 

Winston 

Mariota 

Darnold 

Look how many of these guys were the guy in college for short periods of time

[danlhart87]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Kinda shows how risky it is to anchor your team around a QB drafted in the first round.  At least super high.

Just goes to show success could be found even at 21

 

Wouldn't it be hilarious if Colts drafted someone at 21 and they had a better overall career than Lawrence 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

Just goes to show success could be found even at 21

 

Wouldn't it be hilarious if Colts drafted someone at 21 and they had a better overall career than Lawrence 

It has happened before see 1983