Poll - QB Preference (now that PR has officially retired) (merge)

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Wow, just saw a stat (PFF) that listed the 4 QB’s with the lowest % of accurate passes when throwing from a clean pocket (we tout our offensive line as one of the best) and I was shocked to see the names of ALL the guys everyone around here are clamoring for at the bottom of the list.  Below are their rankings and percentages:

 

29.  Matt Stafford  —  58%

30.  Sam Darnold  —  56%

31.  Mitch Trubisky  —  54%

32.  Carson Wentz  —  51%

 

So when conditions are perfect these guys can’t even throw an accurate pass 3 outta 5 times.  Are those names the best we can do?  To add a little reference:  Drew Lock was at 60% followed by Nick Mullens and Gardner Minshew at 59%.

 

Yes.  This is the reason these guys do not win.  I have said before, decisions making and ACCURACY are the two most important things in a QB.  I'll bet Chad Pennington had a better winning percentage than Stafford.  

 

And Mahomes is deadly accurate from many angles, and he wins.  But Brady is probably more accurate. Rivers was accurate.

 

I don't follow other QBs, but I have not heard anything about Wentz' or Darnolds', or Trubiskys accuracy.  If this is true, I don't want any of them.  I'll accept them and root accordingly, but we should be concerned about them making bad passes.

 

In their defense, it could also reflect the offense or the need to play hero ball with chunk plays.  Longer passes are inherently less accurate than short passes.  Frank's offense and our running game would probably improve their short pass attempt volume and improve their accuracy percentage.

[krunk]

And like I said I want bro. They are pursuing him even after having talked to Peyton Manning. So that means to me that Peyton probably gave the thumbs up as well.

[Colt Overseas]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

It means some of the smoke you are hearing about the Bears is not all real. There is a bit more to this thing.

Oh I agree I think there is interest there, but I’d say Howie and Chris started from miles apart.

 

I don’t think they’ll be able to find a meeting point, but that’s just my inclination 

[krunk]

It wouldnt even surprise me if Frank sat down in a film session with Peyton to identify what was the cause of his problems.

[luv_pony_express]

10 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I believe he had less then ten every other season. He does need to work on his fumble issues.

He had 14 in his first season and 7 for each of the 3 seasons preceding this one.  But that’s a bit misleading.  Because he only played in 11 games in one of those and 13 in another.

 

Anyway, his INT% accounts for all of that and it was sky-high this past season.  He threw a pick on 3.4% of his attempts.  I believe that was highest in the league.

[krunk]

8 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

He had 14 in his first season and 7 for each of the 3 seasons preceding this one.  But that’s a bit misleading.  Because he only played in 11 games in one of those and 13 in another.

 

Anyway, his INT% accounts for all of that and it was sky-high this past season.  He threw a pick on 3.4% of his attempts.  I believe that was highest in the league.

Did he ever throw 28 or 30 like Peyton and Jameis? The man threw for 15 on the high end. At his worse and you guys keep screaming like hes the worse thing since Ryan Leaf.

[krunk]

He threw for 20 or more TD during those short injury years as well. So if we are to assume he might of thrown for more picks if he played more games during those years we also have to assume hed of thrown for more TD.

[The Fish]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

Did he ever throw 28 or 30 like Peyton and Jameis? The man threw for 15 on the high end. At his worse and you guys keep screaming like hes the worse thing since Ryan Leaf.

He's not the worst thing since Ryan Leaf, but go watch some film from last year and tell me you don't see a guy who can't read the field, chucks crappy balls and runs like had cinder blocks on his feet. 

 

I'm not saying he looked bad to make myself feel better. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Getting him behind our oline would do wonders for him.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, The Fish said:

He's not the worst thing since Ryan Leaf, but go watch some film from last year and tell me you don't see a guy who can't read the field, chucks crappy balls and runs like had cinder blocks on his feet. 

 

I'm not saying he looked bad to make myself feel better. 

With everything coming out of Phili I kind of toss last year out. No oline and no weapons. Lockerroom was a mess. His mobility could really open up the offense.

[chad72]

31 minutes ago, DougDew said:

And Mahomes is deadly accurate from many angles, and he wins.  But Brady is probably more accurate. Rivers was accurate.

 

I don't follow other QBs, but I have not heard anything about Wentz' or Darnolds', or Trubiskys accuracy.  If this is true, I don't want any of them.  I'll accept them and root accordingly, but we should be concerned about them making bad passes.

 

 

 

There is completion percentage and then there is the on-target percentage for QBs.

 

Here are completion percentage stats: for 2020 (will have to account for drops, remember Trubisky had his WR drop an easy TD in the end zone, those unfortunately dock the QB):

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/completion-percentage

 

 

Here are on-target percentage stats for 2020:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing_advanced.htm

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Wentz was number three on the nfl top 100 in 2018.

 

 

[krunk]

26 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

With everything coming out of Phili I kind of toss last year out. No oline and no weapons. Lockerroom was a mess. His mobility could really open up the offense.

He makes some amazing throws on the run at times

[shasta519]

19 hours ago, w87r said:

Still trying to push these bogus narratives?

 

-Round picked doesn't matter. Irrelevant, more 1st round QBs bust than succeed. Was rumored late 1st early 2nd on talent, dropped because of questions on work ethic. Which has been said not to be an issue and again team is happy with everything they saw from Eason this year.

 

-How could he suit up on a team with 2 QBs counting $20m+ on the cap, while we are trying to win a SB, outside of injuries?

 

- Ballard isn't committing to anything right now, those comments do not mean anything

A bogus narrative that is rooted in statistical probability?

 

I would argue the other side of that narrative is “bogus.” It is purely anecdotal...and saying the round pick is irrelevant for a QB just ignores a good amount of empirical data regarding the QB position. If your argument includes Tom Brady...that should be a good clue that you are arguing an exception.
 

Eason isn’t the first player that was told he had a higher draft grade than he truly did. I am sure if you pulled together scouting reports...you would have as many (if not more) that had him as a Day 3 pick. The reports were very

mixed...loved the arm but not sure about the rest. So while I could see work ethic being a red flag...there was much more to him sliding down the draft board.

 

The fact is that he got picked in the 4th round. That means that the entire NFL (which is full of desperate, QB needy teams) didn’t think his talent was worth the risk of a pick in the first 3 rounds. And for all we know...the Colts stopped a slide that would have extended into even later rounds.

 

And between advanced scouting and sheer desperation...teams have gotten pretty damn good about not letting good starting QBs slide in the draft. There have been only a handful in the past 20 years and only a few in the past decade.

So while it’s not impossible that he is a starting NFL QB, Eason should have no bearing on whether they draft a QB...just like Nathan Peterman, Kevin Hogan, Ryan Finley didn’t have when their teams drafted QBs. 

[John Waylon]

 

Not today. Please. Or even this week. Last night was all the nonesense I think I can stand this week. 

[DougDew]

55 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

There is completion percentage and then there is the on-target percentage for QBs.

 

Here are completion percentage stats: for 2020 (will have to account for drops, remember Trubisky had his WR drop an easy TD in the end zone, those unfortunately dock the QB):

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/completion-percentage

 

 

Here are on-target percentage stats for 2020:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing_advanced.htm

 

 

I think your target percentage link is for 2019 not 2020.  But it shows Wentz at 5, right below Brady, Goff. Winston, and Ryan.  Pretty good company.  Ahead of Rivers and Rogers.

 

Trubisky was 12.  Not bad.

 

Stafford and Darnold were 25th and 27th in the NFL.  Bad on-target percentage.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[chad72]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I think your target percentage link is for 2019 not 2020.  But it shows Wentz at 5, right below Brady, Goff. Winston, and Ryan.  Pretty good company.  Ahead of Rivers and Rogers.

 

Trubisky was 12.  Not bad.

 

Stafford and Darnold were 25th and 27th in the NFL.  Bad on-target percentage.

 

I thought there was an option to change the year, sorry.

 

That is why I feel Trubisky can be coached up. He was a Top 10 talent in that draft, drafted behind Wentz, but has been overshadowed by Mahomes and Watson, which many have been lately.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This podcaster guy still thinks it’s the Bears.

 

 

[richard pallo]

Given the choice I think they would rather trade him out of conference if the offers are pretty close.  They will not want to take the chance of facing him frequently especially if he rebounds.  Reich believes he can "fix" him and he wants him just like last year with Rivers and he got his man.   I think Ballard acquires him for Reich and he comes here.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Carson has 3 Golden Retrievers. He is ok in my book. LMAO

[w87r]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

A bogus narrative that is rooted in statistical probability?

 

I would argue the other side of that narrative is “bogus.” It is purely anecdotal...and saying the round pick is irrelevant for a QB just ignores a good amount of empirical data regarding the QB position. If your argument includes Tom Brady...that should be a good clue that you are arguing an exception.
 

Eason isn’t the first player that was told he had a higher draft grade than he truly did. I am sure if you pulled together scouting reports...you would have as many (if not more) that had him as a Day 3 pick. The reports were very

mixed...loved the arm but not sure about the rest. So while I could see work ethic being a red flag...there was much more to him sliding down the draft board.

 

The fact is that he got picked in the 4th round. That means that the entire NFL (which is full of desperate, QB needy teams) didn’t think his talent was worth the risk of a pick in the first 3 rounds. And for all we know...the Colts stopped a slide that would have extended into even later rounds.

 

And between advanced scouting and sheer desperation...teams have gotten pretty damn good about not letting good starting QBs slide in the draft. There have been only a handful in the past 20 years and only a few in the past decade.

So while it’s not impossible that he is a starting NFL QB, Eason should have no bearing on whether they draft a QB...just like Nathan Peterman, Kevin Hogan, Ryan Finley didn’t have when their teams drafted QBs. 

1. I never said to not draft a QB, probably should get your facts straight.

 

2. It is Bogus to assume a guy can't have a future because he was a 4th round pick. Round doesn't matter, what matters is going to the right system, right coaching and putting in the work necessary to succeed. Eason has all 3 of those at his disposal(system, Reich and all reports is the team is happy with his work).

 

Few QB's draft 4th round or later since 1990:

Tom Brady - 6th

Trent Green - 8th

Matt Hasselbeck - 6th

Mark Brunell - 5th

Dak Prescott - 4th

Brad Johnson - 9th

Kirk Cousins - 4th

Aaron Brooks - 4th

Kurt Warner Undrafted

 

3 of the top 10 QBs in the league currently.

 

So again, it doesn't matter where you are drafted. 

 

I assume since you didn't even mention the other 2 "bogus narratives" things I listed, that those are good?

[luv_pony_express]

14 minutes ago, w87r said:

3 of the top 10 QBs in the league currently.

 

So again, it doesn't matter where you are drafted. 

 

But only two of the QBs you listed ever hoisted a trophy.  Granted, one of them has hoisted 7 of them now -- which is just beyond belief.  But, however good Dak and Cousins have been, they've never gotten their teams over the hump.  Not even close, really.  Dallas won 13 games in Dak's rookie season.  Since then, they've had limited success.

 

So I wouldn't say that "it doesn't matter where you are drafted."  There absolutely is a correlation between where a QB (or any other position) is drafted and how well they -- and, by extension, their teams -- do.

 

What I would say is that being drafted in lower rounds doesn't necessarily preclude you from having a successful career.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 hours ago, Colt Overseas said:

From following Colts media, Stephen Holder is someone that doesn’t usually have any inside breaking news.

 

So make of this at what you will.

 

And what ‘in on’ implies..

 

 

I think basically it means, Ballard rang, Howie asked for 2 1sts and Ballard said no.

 

 

[luv_pony_express]

52 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

This podcaster guy still thinks it’s the Bears.

 

 

 

I hope he's right -- or, at least, I hope Ballard doesn't try to outbid Chicago.  Wentz ain't worth anywhere near what's been bandied about.

 

But, I have to say, something still seems fishy about all of this.  If Chicago has already offered what the Eagles have said they wanted, what are the Eagles waiting for?  Why are the Colts still in this at all?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Could this be happening. Are bears really not involved and they are messing with the colts.

 

 

[w87r]

10 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

But only two of the QBs you listed ever hoisted a trophy

That's not true.

 

 

 

 

How many QBs haven't won a SB? That is not the prerequisite. Definitely the goal, but doesn't mean Eason can't lead us to SB.

 

Hasselbeck led team to SB as well.

 

Others on list led teams to deep playoff runs.

 

 

Another thing is this only goes back to 1990.

 

Few other Super Bowl winner names for you.

Steve Young - supplemental draft

Russell Wilson -3rd round(not 4th but with this logic it Doesnt fly)

Mark Rypien - 6th round

Jeff Hostetler - 3rd(see Russell Wilson)

Joe Montana - 3rd(see Russ + Jeff)

Joe Theisman 4th round pick

Roger Staunach - 10th round pick

Johnny Unitas 9th round pick

Bart Starr - 17th round pick

 

 

 

Sorry to list (3) 3rd round picks,  but not much difference.

[luv_pony_express]

1 minute ago, w87r said:

That's not true.

 

 

 

 

How many QBs haven't won a SB? That is not the prerequisite. Definitely the goal, but doesn't mean Eason can't lead us to SB.

 

Hasselbeck led team to SB as well.

 

Others on list led teams to deep playoff runs.

 

 

Another thing is this only goes back to 1990.

 

Few other Super Bowl winner names for you.

Steve Young - supplemental draft

Russell Wilson -3rd round(not 4th but with this logic it Doesnt fly)

Mark Rypien - 6th round

Jeff Hostetler - 3rd(see Russell Wilson)

Joe Montana - 3rd(see Russ + Jeff)

Joe Theisman 4th round pick

Roger Staunach - 10th round pick

Johnny Unitas 9th round pick

Bart Starr - 17th round pick

 

 

 

Sorry to list (3) 3rd round picks,  but not much difference.

 

So you don't think there's any correlation between where somebody's drafted and how successful their career is?

 

[luv_pony_express]

9 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Could this be happening. Are bears really not involved and they are messing with the colts.

 

 

 

It would make perfect sense, actually.  Different parties leak things (whether true or untrue) that are in their best interest to leak.  Maybe the Eagles were leaking false info about Bears offers.  Maybe Wentz's agent was.  But, either way, somebody put it out there that the Bears had made a stout offer for Wentz.  Roquan Smith's name was even put out there to go along with the draft picks!

 

So, again, if the Eagles got that offer -- which seemed to be right around the Eagles' asking price -- why is this thing not done and in the books?  I have no idea.  But one logical explanation is that the Eagles are hoping it would panic the Colts into upping their offer.  "Shill Bidding" has happened on eBay since about their first day in operation.

 

Then you read what Stephen Holder put out there.  That seems likely to have come from the Colts FO....as if to signal through the media "We know what you're up to Howie, and it isn't going to work."

[w87r]

16 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

So you don't think there's any correlation between where somebody's drafted and how successful their career is?

 

1st off, you should probably acknowledge that what I quoted you on in last post, that you were unequivocally wrong.

 

2nd off, no I don't think where you are drafted at, has any correlation with how successful someone's career is.

 

Go check the numbers(1st Rd QB bust rates/overall 1st Rd bust rates). I would give them to you, but since you wanted to interject in the conversation without facts, then fail to acknowledge you were wrong, I don't feel the need to get them for you.

 

Good day.

[danlhart87]

22 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Could this be happening. Are bears really not involved and they are messing with the colts.

 

 

Ballard isn't that dumb.

He will set his price and not change it 

[Smoke317]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

There is completion percentage and then there is the on-target percentage for QBs.

 

Here are completion percentage stats: for 2020 (will have to account for drops, remember Trubisky had his WR drop an easy TD in the end zone, those unfortunately dock the QB):

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/completion-percentage

 

 

Here are on-target percentage stats for 2020:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing_advanced.htm

 

 

Your link takes us to 2019.  Not hard to just go up to next season & pull up 2020 though.  In 2020 Wentz ranked #33rd out of 35 listed QB’s at 70.4% on target percentage. Only ahead of Haskins & Lock.

[danlhart87]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Carson has 3 Golden Retrievers. He is ok in my book. LMAO

Hes my new hero 

[luv_pony_express]

1 minute ago, w87r said:

1st off, you should probably acknowledge that what I quoted you on in last post, that you were unequivocally wrong.

 

2nd off, no I don't think where you are drafted at, has any correlation with how successful someone's career is.

 

Go check the numbers(1st Rd QB bust rates/overall 1st Rd bust rates). I would give them to you, but since you wanted to interject in the conversation without facts, I don't feel the need to get them for you.

 

Good day.

 

Settle down there, tiger.  I'm not looking to joust with you.

 

First of all, how was I wrong in saying that only two of the QBs you had listed (Brady and Warner) had ever won SBs?  That wasn't wrong -- or was I missing QBs on your list who had won?  I didn't say that there was no such thing as any other quarterback in history drafted in lower rounds who had won.  I simply said that only 2 on your list had.

 

Second, if you go back and look at draft classes and the distribution of Pro Bowls, All-Pros, HoFs, etc., there is absolutely no question those accolades are more heavily distributed to the higher rounds.   I'm not going to run any kind of thorough statistical analysis on it, because (a) it's easy enough to spot without having to do that, and (b) I don't really care that much.

 

But I will pick one at random to glance through, though.  I just chose 2010, which is far back enough to give those guys a long enough sample size.  We'll look at the number of players from that class, by round, who have made at least one Pro Bowl in their careers.

 

1st Round - 17

2nd Round - 9

3rd Round - 4

4th Round - 4

5th Round - 2

6th Round - 2

7th Round - 1

 

Now, it's possible that that year's class was a statistical anomaly.  But I seriously doubt it.  That's about as clear as a trend can be.

[Superman]

Two things on Wentz:

 

 

https://www.phillyvoice.com/carson-wentz-eagles-locker-room-trade-rumors-doug-pederson-jeffrey-lurie-nick-sirianni/ 

 

[luv_pony_express]

14 minutes ago, w87r said:

1st off, you should probably acknowledge that what I quoted you on in last post, that you were unequivocally wrong.

 

2nd off, no I don't think where you are drafted at, has any correlation with how successful someone's career is.

 

Go check the numbers(1st Rd QB bust rates/overall 1st Rd bust rates). I would give them to you, but since you wanted to interject in the conversation without facts, then fail to acknowledge you were wrong, I don't feel the need to get them for you.

 

Good day.

 

Ah, OK.  Brad Johnson did win one.  So, you're right, I should've said 3 rather than 2.  He's an easy one to forget.

 

Still, I disagree with you pretty strongly that where somebody's drafted doesn't correlate with the successes of their career.

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Ballard isn't that dumb.

He will set his price and not change it 

But he may not have offered up his final price yet. 

 

I still say that if the Eagles are going to cut Ertz for cap reasons, offer them a mid round pick.  He'd be worth it to our offense.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

We are getting close.

 

 

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

We are getting close.

 

 

Could it end up being a rare 3 team trade

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

But he may not have offered up his final price yet. 

 

I still say that if the Eagles are going to cut Ertz for cap reasons, offer them a mid round pick.  He'd be worth it to our offense.

I could deal with losing a 4th for him 

[Smoke317]

I would rather trade for Foles (4th rd pick) just to calm people’s fears and go into the draft with the opportunity to still move up for a dynamic QB to be our franchise. Say we miss out on one of those, we could still add a Jones, Trask, or Mond.  Regardless have a wide open QB competition.  That’s a worst case scenario though.  We could possibly hit on something big in the draft.