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Philip Rivers is retiring from the NFL


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1 hour ago, King Colt said:

All players can get better. Check Peyton Manning's first year stats.

I don’t think you have an understanding of how football works. Players do get better but they stop developing after about year 4. After that they are who they are. There is no more developing of Jacoby. We know what he is going into year 6.

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I doubt that

Hail fellow, well met.   I'm glad we had Rivers in 2020. I'm very glad he had a good season, and so did the team. I'm disappointed we couldn't get him to the SB, and I'm kind of disappointed

Much respect to Rivers He came and played very well for us last season. Exceeded most expectations.     Wish nothing but the best for him and his family. Look forward to the day he gets

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3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I'd take him as a play caller right now... lol

I actually wouldn’t because I think it was Rivers that would audible out of runs far too often this season.  We went pass happy in games vs Jags, Ravens, & Steelers.  

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2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

yep same here, i wasn't sold on Rivers, but I would have liked to seen us for the first time since Reich has been here, have the same QB starting back to back years.  I know Reich gets a LOT of flak and much of it is deserved, and I give a lot to him myself, but to be fair, he's not really had any consistency at the most critical position in the game. 

I would have preferred Reich have had consistency too. I think he gets too much of a free pass, or get out of jail free card to much because of the QB situation. I just feel Pagano all over again. Just Pagano with a much better OL and GM lol

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1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Yea but drafting  a rookie would leave us in same predicament.  Who knows if there will be preseason games

Sure it would but there's a difference between naming a 1st round QB your starter, and naming Eason starter.

 

We'll see how covid shakes out. Interesting times ahead.

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3 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I don’t think you have an understanding of how football works. Players do get better but they stop developing after about year 4. After that they are who they are. There is no more developing of Jacoby. We know what he is going into year 6.

 

I wouldn't put it that way. Especially at QB. 

 

But if a guy hasn't shown certain ability or meaningful improvement through four years, then he's probably not going to suddenly flip the switch in Year 5. 

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5 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I don’t think you have an understanding of how football works. Players do get better but they stop developing after about year 4. After that they are who they are. There is no more developing of Jacoby. We know what he is going into year 6.

 The bulb sometimes takes seven years to come on...

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3 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

I am not either. I think Darnold is very talented and makes perfect sense from an age and contract standpoint. Either he breaks out and you have your young QB (but you will have to pay him)...OR he continues to bust and you have to go all in on the draft the following year. But at least you will be in better position to do so.

 

I don't really see a downside...given the alternatives. But preferably, I would just bite the bullet and move up in the draft and get it over with.

Man he was soooo bad though.  

 

I get what you are saying.

 

Are you ready to just move on from this wave of talent if a guy like Darnold continues to bust?  

 

There would be almost no way we could keep the line intact, sign Leonard, we'd be at the end of JTs cheap contract?

 

I really hope they take a shot this next year or two.  I think we are capable of winning now with a top 3rd QB.

 

I'm not for going for a rookie now.  We can always take that shot in the future.  I say take a chance on a vet, even one with some salary for a couple years with 3rd year option, and go for it.  If this guy busts, tear it down and build it back up.

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Just now, Smoke317 said:

I actually wouldn’t because I think it was Rivers that would audible out of runs far too often this season.  We went pass happy in games vs Jags, Ravens, & Steelers.  

Dude, come on. That's pure speculation and pretty silly. And even if he did, our pass/run % was still 23rd (meaning we didn't pass alot). And if Rivers went that much off script all the time, and Reich didn't put the hammer down, that's even worse. Reich made the same boneheaded moves/game-plans last year too. So you saying JB and Hoyer were all audibling out of plays too... bahahaha

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3 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Number 17 played 17 seasons.  Damn good career.  Nothing to be ashamed about at all.  I definitely think he gets in the Hall of Fame.  We were supposed to be giving him the perfect walk off with a win over Rodgers and the Packers in the Super Bowl this season.  Despite not accomplishing that ultimate goal in the NFL, I think he’s going to do big things in coaching.  

If he does great things in coaching, it will probably be on the HS level, at least until his sons graduate.  I really think this Dude wants to follow in his Dad's footsteps and coach his own sons in football.  I think his decision to retire boils down to him wanting to get started on that phase of his life.

 

And I am not BSing about this, this literally brings tears to my eyes right now.  What a beautiful friggin idea.  (Got two Middle School sons BTW)

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17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I would have preferred Reich have had consistency too. I think he gets too much of a free pass, or get out of jail free card to much because of the QB situation. I just feel Pagano all over again. Just Pagano with a much better OL and GM lol

you had me agreeing right up to the Pagano part. Pagano went 8-8 with Andrew Luck... Pagano ranked last in nearly every D category. Sure the GM is better, OL definitely is, but the coaching is BETTER.  Now, there's a reason Pagano is out of the league is what has been less than a 10 year rise for him. From DC to HC back to DC, he's failed everywhere. He's a nice guy, but as a prime play caller, is not. Reich has issues, dont get me wrong. But I'd take Reich of Pagano 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. 

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17 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Man he was soooo bad though.  

 

I get what you are saying.

 

Are you ready to just move on from this wave of talent if a guy like Darnold continues to bust?  

 

There would be almost no way we could keep the line intact, sign Leonard, we'd be at the end of JTs cheap contract?

 

I really hope they take a shot this next year or two.  I think we are capable of winning now with a top 3rd QB.

 

I'm not for going for a rookie now.  We can always take that shot in the future.  I say take a chance on a vet, even one with some salary for a couple years with 3rd year option, and go for it.  If this guy busts, tear it down and build it back up.

um... where are you gonna get a "top 3" QB?  Right now, the top 3 are Mahomes, Rodgers and Josh Allen.  Hands down, no debate.  And you're not getting any of them.  

 

There's a tiny, tiny tiny tiny tiny, like .0000000000000000000000001% chance we could get Deshawn Watson, but its not likely in any aspect of the word to happen. Watson would be the ONLY QB that "MAY" be available to trade/sign this season that could get you anywhere close to you top 3. Watson with our D and our OL and our rushing attack would be the Chiefs 2.0. If I'm Ballard/Reich, I'd sell the next 3 years of 1s for it. Hands down without batting an eye

 

Wentz sure in the hell aint gonna do it, neither would Darnold, Stafford, RGIII or Fitzpatrick, or any other QBs that performed WORSE than Rivers that people keeping clamoring over. 

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Just now, csmopar said:

um... where are you gonna get a "top 3" QB?  Right now, the top 3 are Mahomes, Rodgers and Josh Allen.  Hands down, no debate.  And you're not getting any of them.  

 

There's a tiny, tiny tiny tiny tiny, like .0000000000000000000000001% chance we could get Deshawn Watson, but its not likely in any aspect of the word to happen. Watson would be the ONLY QB that "MAY" be available to trade/sign this season that could get you anywhere close to you top 3. Watson with our D and our OL and our rushing attack would be the Chiefs 2.0. If I'm Ballard/Reich, I'd sell the next 3 years of 1s for it. Hands down without batting an eye

 

Wentz sure in the hell aint gonna do it, neither would Darnold, Stafford, RGIII or Fitzpatrick, or any other QBs that performed WORSE than Rivers that people keeping clamoring over. 

 

i said top 3rd, not top 3 R E L A X bud.

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2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

you had me agreeing right up to the Pagano part. Pagano went 8-8 with Andrew Luck... Pagano ranked last in nearly every D category. Sure the GM is better, OL definitely is, but the coaching is BETTER.  Now, there's a reason Pagano is out of the league is what has been less than a 10 year rise for him. From DC to HC back to DC, he's failed everywhere. He's a nice guy, but as a prime play caller, is not. Reich has issues, dont get me wrong. But I'd take Reich of Pagano 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. 

Both had JB for one year, and both have near the same regular season win %. Pagano had 3 healthy years of Luck and won the AFCS two straight years after Luck's rook year and was only derailed when Luck missed half the season the next year. Pagano has a better post season record IIRC. Reich isn't coaching the D, so I give credit to Eberflus, and Ballard for drafting players and hiring Eberflus. IMO, if Pagano had Ballard, Pagano would still be here. Grigson pretty much laid an egg all over Pagano with bad draft after bad draft, and silly FA moves etc.. 

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Just now, csmopar said:

rivers was top 3rd

He was pretty close to that, and we were pretty close too.  He was 19th in QBR. 

 

I rate him slightly higher than that.  In QBR he was slightly below bottom half though.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Both had JB for one year, and both have near the same regular season win %. Pagano had 3 healthy years of Luck and won the AFCS two straight years after Luck's rook year and was only derailed when Luck missed half the season the next year. Pagano has a better post season record IIRC. Reich isn't coaching the D, so I give credit to Eberflus, and Ballard for drafting players and hiring Eberflus. IMO, if Pagano had Ballard, Pagano would still be here. Grigson pretty much laid an egg all over Pagano with bad draft after bad draft, and silly FA moves etc.. 

Man you really hate Reich if you are rating Pagano above him.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Man he was soooo bad though.  

 

I get what you are saying.

 

Are you ready to just move on from this wave of talent if a guy like Darnold continues to bust?  

 

There would be almost no way we could keep the line intact, sign Leonard, we'd be at the end of JTs cheap contract?

 

I really hope they take a shot this next year or two.  I think we are capable of winning now with a top 3rd QB.

 

I'm not for going for a rookie now.  We can always take that shot in the future.  I say take a chance on a vet, even one with some salary for a couple years with 3rd year option, and go for it.  If this guy busts, tear it down and build it back up.


For me...the competitive window is relative to the QB position...both in talent and cost. Darnold helps with the cost and the upside could be there to take this team to the next level...like Tannehill did in TEN.

 

How likely is that? Probably not very likely...which is why I want a rookie now...but it’s at least a shot at a young franchise QB. 
 
And if it doesn’t work out...at least you will be better positioned to get your franchise QB. Yes, it would suck to waste a year of this roster...but that’s the reality all teams face when trying to address QB. 

 

I just don’t see how they would be able to carry an expensive vet QB right now and have flexibility to do much else. And they will still need a QB when that vet leaves...so they will still have to draft one at some point (unless Eason is really their guy).
 

But if you go for your rookie now...he will be ascending as the core is peaking. But more importantly, you get 3-4 years of cheap QB play...which allows you maximize the roster (and window) around him. If you have to sacrifice one season of this roster’s competitive window to develop the rookie...years 2-4 are more than worth that cost. But who’s to say that QB doesn’t hit the ground running (like Luck or Herbert). 

And look at how well this strategy has worked for teams like KC, BAL and BUF. It has backfired on other teams...but we just have to trust that Ballard gets it right. 
 

And then once that QB needs to get paid...you will have had time to replace some of those non-QB players with cheaper younger talent...and the window stays open.

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1 minute ago, shasta519 said:


For me...the competitive window is relative to the QB position...both in talent and cost. Darnold helps with the cost and the upside could be there to take this team to the next level...like Tannehill did in TEN.

 

How likely is that? Probably not very likely...which is why I want a rookie now...but it’s at least a shot at a young franchise QB. 
 
And if it doesn’t work out...at least you will be better positioned to get your franchise QB. Yes, it would suck to waste a year of this roster...but that’s the reality all teams face when trying to address QB. 

 

I just don’t see how they would be able to carry an expensive vet QB right now and have flexibility to do much else. And they will still need a QB when that vet leaves...so they will still have to draft one at some point (unless Eason is really their guy).
 

But if you go for your rookie now...he will be ascending as the core is peaking. But more importantly, you get 3-4 years of cheap QB play...which allows you maximize the roster (and window) around him. If you have to sacrifice one season of this roster’s competitive window to develop the rookie...years 2-4 are more than worth that cost. But who’s to say that QB doesn’t hit the ground running (like Luck or Herbert). 

And look at how well this strategy has worked for teams like KC, BAL and BUF. It has backfired on other teams...but we just have to trust that Ballard gets it right. 
 

And then once that QB needs to get paid...you will have had time to replace some of those non-QB players with cheaper younger talent...and the window stays open.

 

But I see part of it differently.  We have money to pay a vet for the next two years no matter what we do.  We have upwards of 70 mill in space now. 

 

In a couple of years, we are going to owe big time money and proabably will need a cheaper option.


Were you for keeping PR if he hadn't retired?  

 

I agree in principle that you are what your QB is.  I'd just like to see us take a run at this thing this year and next.

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Just now, Nickster said:

Man you really hate Reich if you are rating Pagano above him.

If you look at the Ws and Ls, the talent level of the OL and RBs both had, etc. it's very debatable. Add in the context of how bad Grigson was, and what an upgrade Ballard is, and it's not far fetched at all. 

 

If you look at both coaches with Luck for instance. When Luck was healthy for Pagano, the worst he did was 11-5. Reich had a healthy Luck and a far better OL and rushing attack, and went 10-6. 

 

I don't hate Reich at all. I'm just looking at the factual side of things in context. I don't think either coach is all that great. Reich was Ballards plan D or so, after he got left at the alter and all the others were already locked up. Reich had already been passed over several times by other team, but was the best of what was left.

 

I might respect a coach (and I do respect Reich), but it's hard for me see him as a winner until he's bringing home at least division championships. Reich's only claim to fame is not calling plays while working under Pederson. It's just reality.

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36 minutes ago, csmopar said:

you had me agreeing right up to the Pagano part. Pagano went 8-8 with Andrew Luck... Pagano ranked last in nearly every D category. Sure the GM is better, OL definitely is, but the coaching is BETTER.  Now, there's a reason Pagano is out of the league is what has been less than a 10 year rise for him. From DC to HC back to DC, he's failed everywhere. He's a nice guy, but as a prime play caller, is not. Reich has issues, dont get me wrong. But I'd take Reich of Pagano 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. 

 

I would not characterize his runs as failures. That is a bit harsh, IMO.

 

As DC of Ravens, went to 2011 AFCCG, and as HC of Colts, went to playoffs in all of his first 3 years with an AFCCG appearance in 2014. The Bears D, when it had its pieces intact without injuries, did real well with him.

 

He has not knocked it out of the park but he has been a good coach but the issue was, he hired bad supporting staff and as HC, did not coach the D like he did with the Ravens and Bears, thus the D took steps backwards under him. Eberflus on the other hand has done better statistically on several fronts.

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Thank you for coming and playing for us in Indy. What a great career, HOF player imo. Hopefully the last few years does not make it too easy for everyone to forget how you could beat anyone. Including Manning at the top of his game. Thanks 17.

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46 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

If you look at the Ws and Ls, the talent level of the OL and RBs both had, etc. it's very debatable. Add in the context of how bad Grigson was, and what an upgrade Ballard is, and it's not far fetched at all. 

 

If you look at both coaches with Luck for instance. When Luck was healthy for Pagano, the worst he did was 11-5. Reich had a healthy Luck and a far better OL and rushing attack, and went 10-6. 

 

I don't hate Reich at all. I'm just looking at the factual side of things in context. I don't think either coach is all that great. Reich was Ballards plan D or so, after he got left at the alter and all the others were already locked up. Reich had already been passed over several times by other team, but was the best of what was left.

 

I might respect a coach (and I do respect Reich), but it's hard for me see him as a winner until he's bringing home at least division championships. Reich's only claim to fame is not calling plays while working under Pederson. It's just reality.

Healthy Luck? The player who was obviously limited through the 1st 5 weeks or so? The guy who was rusty from a year plus away from the game?

 

If you were picking a coach for your club, you'd pick Pagano over Reich? 

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Just now, Colt.45 said:

Healthy Luck? The player who was obviously limited through the 1st 5 weeks or so? The guy who was rusty from a year plus away from the game?

 

If you were picking a coach for your club, you'd pick Pagano over Reich? 

At some point you gotta agree to disagree. 

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3 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Healthy Luck? The player who was obviously limited through the 1st 5 weeks or so? The guy who was rusty from a year plus away from the game?

 

If you were picking a coach for your club, you'd pick Pagano over Reich? 

Rusty 1st 5 weeks? So rusty in 3 games (including his first) he put up 319, 464, and 365 yards. And he had like 7 TDs those 3 games.. 

 

The problem we had the first 5 weeks was musical chairs with the OL, AC out, and Mack out..... It wasn't Luck.

 

We should have won the Houston game (way too much short passing, and not near enough running), and the Philly game. And we should have never ever lost the Cinci game. I won't digress into some of the silly reasons we lost.

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2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

OK, if the Eagles said, like the Osweiler deal the Texans made with the Browns and said, I will give you a current 2nd and future 3rd if you take Wentz and his entire contract, would you do it?

 

I would definitely think about it, personally in that scenario. 

 

I think you're looking in the right direction. 

 

Rivers probably wanted to play one more, but knew they were moving in another direction.  After listening to Frank and Ballard, it was pretty clear to me they weren't bringing him back.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Rusty 1st 5 weeks? So rusty in 3 games (including his first) he put up 319, 464, and 365 yards. And he had like 7 TDs those 3 games.. 

 

The problem we had the first 5 weeks was musical chairs with the OL, AC out, and Mack out..... It wasn't Luck.

 

We should have won the Houston game (way too much short passing, and not near enough running), and the Philly game. And we should have never ever lost the Cinci game. I won't digress into some of the silly reasons we lost.

 

There were factors but Luck was clearly rusty.

 

You would pick Chuck Pagano over Frank Reich?

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3 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

There were factors but Luck was clearly rusty.

 

You would pick Chuck Pagano over Frank Reich?

I don't view either as being better than the other at this point. 

 

Luck might have been rusty in a few of those first 5 games, but he was also very good in a few of those first five games. I'd say there's more of case to be made that the OL was bad (sacks) until week 6, and we had zero rushing game until Mack got back around the same time. Feel free to look at the OL situation. We had 5 different starting 5s IIRC the first 5 weeks, and AC was out most of that time. Our YPCarry without Mack was also abysmal during that time, likely also impacted by the OL. 

 

If Chuck can go 11-5 in Luck's rook year with a horrible OL and Vic Ballard as a RB, I'd think Frank could do that well with a rusty Luck. 

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I wasn’t a huge fan of signing Phil in the off-season. 
 

And I certainly didn’t expect to feel sad when he eventually decided to retire. 
 

I think that says a lot about the man, and the season he had. He proved the doubters wrong, put up some seriously impressive numbers and has retired on his own terms. 
 

Nothing but respect and admiration for him and wish him best of luck coaching high school football down in Alabama
 

Once a pro. Always a pro. 

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Maybe just maybe it is time for the Colts to develop their own? They went from Manning #1 overall to Luck #1 overall to 1 year with Brissett. Then they sign a future hall of fame qb for 1 year. Colts have actually been quite spoiled when it comes to their qb situation over the last 25 years.  Get ready Colt fans. You may be going to find out what it has been like for organizations such as the Bills, before Allan, and the Phins and other teams who went without a qb for 20 years. Could be a long road. Now we are going to find out how valuable our GM truly is.

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3 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Maybe just maybe it is time for the Colts to develop their own? They went from Manning #1 overall to Luck #1 overall to 1 year with Brissett. Then they sign a future hall of fame qb for 1 year. Colts have actually been quite spoiled when it comes to their qb situation over the last 25 years.  Get ready Colt fans. You may be going to find out what it has been like for organizations such as the Bills, before Allan, and the Phins and other teams who went without a qb for 20 years. Could be a long road. Now we are going to find out how valuable our GM truly is.

Plenty of fans here from the 80s that know all about that.   

 

The current gm is better than any gm we had before or since polian.  I'm sure he has a plan.   

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Hopefully we get more of a off season this year.  EVen with Stafford it won’t be as easy of a transition that it was for Rivers.

Reich's O isn't that complicated. He stresses "multiples" and a lot of the same looks with just different personnel. Detroit uses a lot of 11 personnel just like us. Only big difference is that they take more downfield shots IIRC. They wanted to be more of a running team going into last season, but just didn't work out that way. And since their D is literally the worst in the league, they simply had to throw more. Their OL is decent, but not to our level. His pass catchers got hit with injury this year as well, so IIRC, he was cycling a lot of guys in and out at WR.

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