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Would you make another first round pick trade?


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1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

I said Smith is an exception. He wasn't even supposed to play RT and now he's one of the best.

And I’ve said two things you continue to ignore....

 

1.   Success at right tackle does not mean success at left tackle.

 

2.   Left tackle is not a position you want to gamble on.  
 

I’m done with this.  We’ve said what we have to say.    Maybe you’ll get your wish, but I wouldn’t count on it. 

 

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6 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

You don't think Lattimore is a top 5 corner?

He's definitely not a top 5 cornerback at all..

 

Alexander, Ramsey, White, Howard, Humphrey, and tons of others have been way better than him this year

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10 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

Stafford trade is contingent on 2 things:

 

. Rivers retires 

. Lions plan on drafting QB

 

Both are possible

I doubt it happens

Whelp....

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The scenario that brought Buckner to the Colts is one you must deploy very infrequently when constructing a sustainable winning roster.  You can’t load up on big contracts and trade away your first round picks repeatedly.  

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On 1/19/2021 at 7:44 PM, CR91 said:

 

 

 

An amazing offseason for Indy that could easily make them SB contenders for at least a few seasons would include dealing their 1st round pick to New Orleans for CB Marshon Lattimore and their 2022 3rd.

 

Then deal Indy's 3rd rounder, plus 2022 4th to Detroit for QB Matthew Stafford, to man the QB position for 2-3 years until Eason is fully ready.

 

In free agency, sign a somewhat prominent DE like Bud Dupree or Carl Lawson to replace either Autry or Houston, whoever Ballard lets walk.

 

Then in the draft, get your longterm LT in the 2nd or trading down into the 3rd round (Jackson Carman, Liam Eichenberg are options)

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Just now, BProland85 said:

 

An amazing offseason for Indy that could easily make them SB contenders for at least a few seasons would include dealing their 1st round pick to New Orleans for CB Marshon Lattimore and their 2022 3rd.

 

Then deal Indy's 3rd rounder, plus 2022 4th to Detroit for QB Matthew Stafford, to man the QB position for 2-3 years until Eason is fully ready.

 

In free agency, sign a somewhat prominent DE like Bud Dupree or Carl Lawson to replace either Autry or Houston, whoever Ballard lets walk.

 

Then in the draft, get your longterm LT in the 2nd or trading down into the 3rd round (Jackson Carman, Liam Eichenberg are options)

 

How do you expect to pay Lattimore, Stafford, and Dupree? 

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I wouldn’t hate making a trade with our 1st. I would hate making THAT trade with our 1st. We have larger and more pressing concerns than CB.

 

Especially not a CB that is about to get PAID

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11 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

I wouldn’t hate making a trade with our 1st. I would hate making THAT trade with our 1st. We have larger and more pressing concerns than CB.

 

Especially not a CB that is about to get PAID

I think we are in need of more talent at CB but not trading a first for one. I'd try signing Rhodes and one more vet to throw into the mix. I dont know how much Mike Hilton would cost but I like him.

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3 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

An amazing offseason for Indy that could easily make them SB contenders for at least a few seasons would include dealing their 1st round pick to New Orleans for CB Marshon Lattimore and their 2022 3rd.

 

Then deal Indy's 3rd rounder, plus 2022 4th to Detroit for QB Matthew Stafford, to man the QB position for 2-3 years until Eason is fully ready.

 

In free agency, sign a somewhat prominent DE like Bud Dupree or Carl Lawson to replace either Autry or Houston, whoever Ballard lets walk.

 

Then in the draft, get your longterm LT in the 2nd or trading down into the 3rd round (Jackson Carman, Liam Eichenberg are options)

Do you understand salary caps? No chance of that happening from a money stance. Now again another ridiculously low trade offer for a good QB. This just makes no sense to me at all. The Lions would not entertain this trade at all. 

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Ballard traded our 1st pick twice since his arrival.  To the Jets and to San Francisco last year.  Both trades were made at the start of FA.  March 16th and 17th of those years.  Not during the draft but well before.  Other picks were traded during the draft.  It certainly looks like this is done by design with the 1st pick.  So given his prior history I would think it's reasonable to expect he will do it again this year with the target being our new QB.  So the good news is I think there is a good chance we will know the plan for our future QB by the start of FA this year.  

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10 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

An amazing offseason for Indy that could easily make them SB contenders for at least a few seasons would include dealing their 1st round pick to New Orleans for CB Marshon Lattimore and their 2022 3rd.

 

Then deal Indy's 3rd rounder, plus 2022 4th to Detroit for QB Matthew Stafford, to man the QB position for 2-3 years until Eason is fully ready.

 

In free agency, sign a somewhat prominent DE like Bud Dupree or Carl Lawson to replace either Autry or Houston, whoever Ballard lets walk.

 

Then in the draft, get your longterm LT in the 2nd or trading down into the 3rd round (Jackson Carman, Liam Eichenberg are options)

Lions aren't gonna trade Stafford for a 3rd no matter how much you fight the issue. 

 

Colts don't have the cap space for Stafford Lattimore and Dupree no matter how much that you want it.

 

Explain It Season 5 GIF by The Office

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2 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

In another situation that wouldn't be a bad trade.  But we have no QB other than Easton and no left tackle.  

 

I think we need our draft assets to fix those issues. 

 

That is why we need to sign a WR like Allen Robinson or Nelson Agholor or JuJu in free agency. That should give us more freedom with our draft capital.

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14 hours ago, richard pallo said:

 So the good news is I think there is a good chance we will know the plan for our future QB by the start of FA this year.  

 

^^^This.

 

If you are going after a WR like Allen Robinson or JuJu, guess what the second question after the contract amount will be? Who is your starting QB? Have to have the trigger man to make it enticing for offensive free agents at least. 

 

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I've enjoyed reading through the back and forth in this thread and feel there's merits on many topics on both sides.

 

A few of my thoughts that are purely my opinion but are rooted in experience in some cases:

 

1) I never understand the logic of "fixing" one position by moving guys who are studs at their position around in hopes that they can be good elsewhere. For a game or two I get it (like when AC goes out and Nelson slides over). But right now we have a Center , LG and RT who are all top-5 at their position. Keep them there and fix the other areas.

 

2) I played OL in college and semi-pro ball. I started as a LG, was moved to LT and then my last couple years played Center. I personally found Center to be by far the most challenging. I got moved to RT for one game in an all-star game when there was another Center who was older and only played C. RT was a new world when going up against All-Star talent and that wasn't even close to NFL ball. So I would not be trying to shift Smith around when he was going to be a RG and settled into a stellar RT. Then if he doesn't succeed at LT and we drafted someone to play RT, we now have two RTs and no LT. Just does not make a ton of sense.

 

3) There are players out there who can be good LTs who don't have elite measureables but just plain get it. I badly wanted Orlando Brown Jr. He played like a beast in college. He looked the part. His measureables were atrocious and he fell to the third round. Bmore stole him. He is now an All-Pro caliber RT and played LT when Ronnie Stanley was out. Some guys can do that and they just look the part despite their measureables. Some guys don't measure well and it is a precursor for failure. identifying which it is is the key and why personnel guys have such a challenging job.

 

4) I think we can possibly piece-part together the offense if we get a good LT and a placeholder QB. I think we can piece-part it with a better QB and an average LT....we probably cannot piece-part it with a avg or below LT and and avg or below  QB......so something has to give and we are going to need to make some moves to probably get a QB worth anything. If we aren't willing to make that move up in the draft or out of the first in a trade, then we need to sign an avg or above LT and go bargain hunting at QB for a year. That just wastes another year of our best financial years of some of our studs (Nelson, Leonard, Smith, etc).

 

I am actually excited for this off-season because there are a lot of directions we can go in in terms of building up the team. The future is bright, but this is a pretty critical off-season.

 

The teams in the AFC with the brightest future have addressed their QB with young rising players (Chiefs, Bills, Ravens). If we are not going to go young and try to win with a QB on his rookie contract (i.e. Eagles superbowl on Wentz rookie deal, Rams Superbowl w Goff, Chiefs w Mahomes, etc) then we are just on borrowed time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm beginning to think that the OTs worth taking in Round One will be gone before #21, so maybe Ballard should try to sign one of the FA guys like Williams, Robinson, or Villanueva, then use #21 on one of the edge guys or one of the WRs if one slides

 

and maybe sign Fitzpatrick to mentor Eason for a year, unless CB could somehow swing a trade for Stafford--if I'm the Lions GM I'm not sure it's worth it to keep Stafford (and his contract) around during what will be, no matter how you slice it, a serious rebuild.

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You know what... screw it. I'm in. lol

 

Here we go:

 

Trade 1st round pick for Lattimore

49ers part ways with Trent Williams and Colts pounce on that.

Colts sign T. Taylor or Fitzmagic to start 2021 and let Eason be groomed fully in a backup role.

Draft a DE, or LB in round 2.

- Let Rhodes walk obviously

- Probably have to let Hilton, and/or Houston walk along with the others we expect to walk like Walker, Hooker, and Mack

 

 

In all seriousness I am not for this, but I'm surprised that I was able to come up with a quick offseason plan I'd be okay with, but that would take some big ole IFs. 

 

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I don't want to see the Colts trade their first for another veteran unless it's for a QB.

 

It might sound crazy given the Colts have cap space but some guys on rookie deals will be signing some big extensions soon. If the Colts are going to have Nelson, Kelly, and Smith on bigger contracts then it would sure be nice to have a LT on a rookie contract. 

 

Players on rookie contracts is going to soon become really important to balance out the salary. Given the need/importance of QB that's really the only position i'm in favor of trading a pick for a veteran or trading multiple picks to make a significant move up.

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On 1/19/2021 at 10:11 PM, NewColtsFan said:

If you try to compile a list of left tackles with 32 inch arms, the list might not be one deep.  In other words, zero. 

 

Left tackle is not a place you want to gamble on.   

Joe Thomas had 32 inch arms... There were several other decent players too.

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46 minutes ago, life long said:

Joe Thomas had 32 inch arms... There were several other decent players too.

I’m not saying there aren’t exceptions to the rule...    but they are exceptions.   Not the rule. 

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28 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m not saying there aren’t exceptions to the rule...    but they are exceptions.   Not the rule. 

Well yes no one is denying having longer arms helps.  Just like height in the NBA helps, but you had made it sound like not one LT in the NFL has ever had 32 inch arms. That is why I feel your response seems to be back tracking your original quip. Truth be told one of the best LTs of the modern era had very short arms. 

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4 minutes ago, life long said:

Well yes no one is denying having longer arms helps.  Just like height in the NBA helps, but you had made it sound like not one LT in the NFL has ever had 32 inch arms. That is why I feel your response seems to be back tracking your original quip. Truth be told one of the best LTs of the modern era had very short arms. 

I just went back and looked again at my comment.   No where did I say the word ever. I was not dealing with the entire history of the NFL.  I was inferring today — currently.  There may indeed be a current left tackle with sub-33 inch arms.  If there is, I’m not aware of him, and no one has come forward with a name.  
 

If you want to point to Joe Thomas — great.  But that doesn’t change anything I said, or my view of what we’d like to acquire.  
 

If you want to say I’m not 100 percent right, I’m only 99.8 percent right, so be it.   Otherwise, not sure what else I can say....

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9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I just went back and looked again at my comment.   No where did I say the word ever. I was not dealing with the entire history of the NFL.  I was inferring today — currently.  There may indeed be a current left tackle with sub-33 inch arms.  If there is, I’m not aware of him, and no one has come forward with a name.  
 

If you want to point to Joe Thomas — great.  But that doesn’t change anything I said, or my view of what we’d like to acquire.  
 

If you want to say I’m not 100 percent right, I’m only 99.8 percent right, so be it.   Otherwise, not sure what else I can say....

Fair enough I just thought you implied that no nfl team would gamble playing a LT with 32 inch arms. I was merely trying to inform you that is not accurate. 

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

I just went back and looked again at my comment.   No where did I say the word ever. I was not dealing with the entire history of the NFL.  I was inferring today — currently.  There may indeed be a current left tackle with sub-33 inch arms.  If there is, I’m not aware of him, and no one has come forward with a name.  
 

If you want to point to Joe Thomas — great.  But that doesn’t change anything I said, or my view of what we’d like to acquire.  
 

If you want to say I’m not 100 percent right, I’m only 99.8 percent right, so be it.   Otherwise, not sure what else I can say....

Animated GIF

 

:spit:

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2 hours ago, life long said:

Fair enough I just thought you implied that no nfl team would gamble playing a LT with 32 inch arms. I was merely trying to inform you that is not accurate. 

I’ve spent my adult life in the word business.   Either writing them or speaking them.   Words matter.

 

While I wouldn’t rule out a left tackle with sub-33 inch arms, I’d simply say it’s very rare.  Joe Thomas, who I looked up to confirm, had 32 1/2 inch arms.   He was a Hall of Fame talent.   He had exceptional talent and skills.  I suspect he succeeded not because of his arms, but in spite of them.  He was that good. 
 

Typically, if you’re a quality OL with short arms, you’ll be moved inside to guard.  Ballard had to be convinced that Smith could play the less demanding RT because his arms were only 32 1/2.    It’s hard to see Ballard even considering trying him on the left side, but I shouldn’t say never.   I’m reminded of the old saying...  “necessity is the mother of invention”.   So it’s possible.   But I’d call it the longest of long shots.  

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