No Combine Like were used to - Does Indy got a bit of an edge compared to other teams?

[ThorstenDenmark]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/01/16/nfl-scouting-combine-2021-drastically-altered-covid-19

 

The NFL Combine won't be like were used to, due to the Covid-19 pandemic, which limit the possibilities for teams to evaluate the players and their talent.

 

In the 4 years Ballard has been in Indianapolis, he have really nailed some of his draft picks and the scouting staff he has gathered in that period, have really been praised and mentioned time and time again, for their talent evaluation skills and success rate in the draft picks.

 

I know, every team have a huge setup and that the pandemic has limited the possibility for gathering as much information on every player in 2020 compared to other years, so it might be status Q.

But the colts have been one of the better drafting teams the last couple of years, and with players like Big Q, Leonard, Taylor, Blackmon and Pittmann, Ballard and his team has really nailed some picks.

 

So, due to the major impact it will have for the entire league, that their won't be any scouting combine like were used to, does the Colts then have a slightly advantage over other teams, due to the setup Ballard and Ed Dodds have built?

 

I am especially thinking about an edge over teams with new GM´s, HC's and so on.

[John Hammonds]

2021 combine is definitely going to be interesting, having bits and parts of it spread out here and there.
I think that the Colts have a great scouting organization.  Better than most teams.  So, yeah, they have an advantage in that respect.

 

(It still doesn't keep them from drafting people like Quincy Wilson, Ben Banogu, and Kemoko Turay.)

[Zoltan]

I'm more excited to have 4 of our coaches taking part in the east-west shrine game. That will give us a great look at some of the players.

[Fluke_33]

combine numbers via zoom are going to be ridiculous.  Hmmm zoom says he ran a 4.12 40, lifted 225 50 times and jumped 23 feet.  Let’s pick him.  

[csmopar]

Teams probably aren’t and haven’t been making their choices solely off combine scores so I doubt it really hurts much. 
 

the thing that hurts more is the abbreviated college season

[chad72]

It would have to spread out over a week or 2 weeks instead of just 4 or 5 days because one position group might require extra spacing than usual and there should be plenty of seats at LOS to accommodate coaches. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

It would have to spread out over a week or 2 weeks instead of just 4 or 5 days because one position group might require extra spacing than usual and there should be plenty of seats at LOS to accommodate coaches. 

The problem spreading it out longer us that Indy is the home of the March Madness.  The whole month right after the combine.    So I don’t think it’s possible. 

[chad72]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

The problem spreading it out longer us that Indy is the home of the March Madness.  The whole month right after the combine.    So I don’t think it’s possible. 

 

They could start it earlier though to spread out the groups. There is typically 3 weeks from end of SB to beginning of combine. Maybe they cut it to 2 weeks and have the combine earlier. All the scouting and prep work of the scouts would be mostly done. They would still have their Pro days, the combine won't be the "be all and end all" for seasoned GMs and scouts anyways.

 

Indy would already be in the mood for the "all teams in the same dome" environment that would be March Madness. So I don't think anyone would be caught less prepared, seems a reasonable thing to ask for, IMO.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

They will probably have smaller area combines so there isn’t so many in one place.  Like 5 or 6 in different parts of the country. I think teams will still get the information they usually get at the combine.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

So players will hold their own pro days on campus. If teams can’t be there then video will be provided. This seems like it could of been done better.

[aReggie7]

I think the part of the combine that will hurt teams is the information gathering. With the entire league in one place for a week that's where a lot of information shared. It can not only impact the draft but free agency and trades as well.

 

The Colts have emphasized in-person interviews and that's what Brian Decker was brought in for. IMO, having virtual interviews is not nearly as desirable but the Colts will just have to work with what they can get.

 

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 1/16/2021 at 9:39 AM, John Hammonds said:

2021 combine is definitely going to be interesting, having bits and parts of it spread out here and there.
I think that the Colts have a great scouting organization.  Better than most teams.  So, yeah, they have an advantage in that respect.

 

(It still doesn't keep them from drafting people like Quincy Wilson, Ben Banogu, and Kemoko Turay.)

If your going to mention Quincy, why not include few of his fellow draftmates like Hooker, Banner, Bashaam.... 

[John Hammonds]

9 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

If your going to mention Quincy, why not include few of his fellow draftmates like Hooker, Banner, Bashaam.... 

Yup.  Them too.  I was just too lazy.

[John Hammonds]

9 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

If your going to mention Quincy, why not include few of his fellow draftmates like Hooker, Banner, Bashaam.... 

Although Basham and Banner weren't top-50 / 1st and 2nd round picks, so we can exclude them from the list.

 

I guess my point was, picking well in the top 50 isn't based upon whether the combine is being held in your stadium or not.  It's based upon the quality of your scouting department.  We have a good one.  And have picked some good players.  And yet, we've picked some stinkers, too.  Gotta eliminate the stinker picks.

[csmopar]

13 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

we've picked some stinkers, too.  Gotta eliminate the stinker picks.

I agree with you, but no team ever hits on 100%.  There was an article last year, the Ballard led Colts had hit on one of  the highest percentage of picks of any team over the same period. 

[indykmj]

On 1/16/2021 at 6:54 AM, ThorstenDenmark said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/01/16/nfl-scouting-combine-2021-drastically-altered-covid-19

 

The NFL Combine won't be like were used to, due to the Covid-19 pandemic, which limit the possibilities for teams to evaluate the players and their talent.

 

In the 4 years Ballard has been in Indianapolis, he have really nailed some of his draft picks and the scouting staff he has gathered in that period, have really been praised and mentioned time and time again, for their talent evaluation skills and success rate in the draft picks.

 

I know, every team have a huge setup and that the pandemic has limited the possibility for gathering as much information on every player in 2020 compared to other years, so it might be status Q.

But the colts have been one of the better drafting teams the last couple of years, and with players like Big Q, Leonard, Taylor, Blackmon and Pittmann, Ballard and his team has really nailed some picks.

 

So, due to the major impact it will have for the entire league, that their won't be any scouting combine like were used to, does the Colts then have a slightly advantage over other teams, due to the setup Ballard and Ed Dodds have built?

 

I am especially thinking about an edge over teams with new GM´s, HC's and so on.

 

   Kind of early to say that Pittman was a 'nailed' pick. His game never really evolved 

   much over the course of the season. He's got a long way to go. 

[crazycolt1]

7 hours ago, indykmj said:

 

   Kind of early to say that Pittman was a 'nailed' pick. His game never really evolved 

   much over the course of the season. He's got a long way to go. 

I disagree. For a rookie receiver that was with a QB that passed the ball to 9-10 receivers a game, he did great. His YAC was very good too. 

[aReggie7]

John Middlekauf is a former NFL scout but in media. I think he gave a really good overview here and perspective on what gets lost by not having the combine. Well worth the watch.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 1/19/2021 at 4:59 AM, John Hammonds said:

Although Basham and Banner weren't top-50 / 1st and 2nd round picks, so we can exclude them from the list.

 

I guess my point was, picking well in the top 50 isn't based upon whether the combine is being held in your stadium or not.  It's based upon the quality of your scouting department.  We have a good one.  And have picked some good players.  And yet, we've picked some stinkers, too.  Gotta eliminate the stinker picks.

Find me one team that has no stinkers?   Just one.     There aren’t any.  Not in football or any other sport.  Cant be done. 
 

Within the scouting community the view the goal is to get at least three, maybe four starters each year.   The anticipation is that 3-4 picks are not going to work out.   Some due to injury, some because they’re not mature enough to be a pro, some perhaps due to coaching and/or scheme.  
 

There are all sorts of reasons why a pick doesn’t work out.   But it’s impossible to eliminate the stinkers. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Find me one team that has no stinkers?   Just one.     There aren’t any.  Not in football or any other sport.  Cant be done. 
 

Within the scouting community the view the goal is to get at least three, maybe four starters each year.   The anticipation is that 3-4 picks are not going to work out.   Some due to injury, some because they’re not mature enough to be a pro, some perhaps due to coaching and/or scheme.  
 

There are all sorts of reasons why a pick doesn’t work out.   But it’s impossible to eliminate the stinkers. 

I should amend my own post...  I meant to say this, but somehow didn’t.

 

I shouldn’t have said just 3-4 starters.   I should have said starters or important contributors...  guys who play a lot, even if they don’t start.   A 2nd RB like Hines.  A nickel corner like Moore.   A third WR like Pascal.  

[John Hammonds]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Find me one team that has no stinkers?   Just one.     There aren’t any.  Not in football or any other sport.  Cant be done. 
 

Within the scouting community the view the goal is to get at least three, maybe four starters each year.   The anticipation is that 3-4 picks are not going to work out.   Some due to injury, some because they’re not mature enough to be a pro, some perhaps due to coaching and/or scheme.  
 

There are all sorts of reasons why a pick doesn’t work out.   But it’s impossible to eliminate the stinkers. 

I agree with you.  Even the best GM's still swing and miss.  Maybe I should have said, "And strive to eliminate the stinkers."

 

CB has done a good job finding jewels in the later rounds.  Grover Stewart, Anthony Walker, Nyhiem Hines, Khari Willis, Marvell Tell.

But I also tend to think that the better GM's throw more strikes in their top 50 picks.

CB's list of top-50 picks?  Malik Hooker, Quincy Wilson, Quenton Nelson, Darius Leonard, Braden Smith, Rock Ya-Sin, Ben Banogu, Michael Pittman, Johnathan Tayor.  I think he threw strikes on 5 out of 9.  That's not terrible.  It's not pristine either.

Polian's top-50 picks in his first four years?  Peyton Manning, Jerome Pathon, Edgerrin James, Mike Peterson, Rob Morris, Reggie Wayne, Idrees Bashir.  Probably 5 strikes out of 7, if you count Peterson's success with the Jags and Morris' longevity with the team.

But it doesn't always work.  He also drafted Anthony Gonzalez and Tony Ugoh.  (Unless you want to blame Chris Polian for that!)

 

To restate my opinion -- I think we have a good front office, and a good scouting department.  They throw strikes more often then not.  And the idea is to strive to eliminate the non-strikes as much as possible.  I think we do that most of the time.  But we can also get a lot better at it, too.

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

I agree with you.  Even the best GM's still swing and miss.  Maybe I should have said, "And strive to eliminate the stinkers."

 

CB has done a good job finding jewels in the later rounds.  Grover Stewart, Anthony Walker, Nyhiem Hines, Khari Willis, Marvell Tell.

But I also tend to think that the better GM's throw more strikes in their top 50 picks.

CB's list of top-50 picks?  Malik Hooker, Quincy Wilson, Quenton Nelson, Darius Leonard, Braden Smith, Rock Ya-Sin, Ben Banogu, Michael Pittman, Johnathan Tayor.  I think he threw strikes on 5 out of 9.  That's not terrible.  It's not pristine either.

Polian's top-50 picks in his first four years?  Peyton Manning, Jerome Pathon, Edgerrin James, Mike Peterson, Rob Morris, Reggie Wayne, Idrees Bashir.  Probably 5 strikes out of 7, if you count Peterson's success with the Jags and Morris' longevity with the team.

But it doesn't always work.  He also drafted Anthony Gonzalez and Tony Ugoh.  (Unless you want to blame Chris Polian for that!)

 

To restate my opinion -- I think we have a good front office, and a good scouting department.  They throw strikes more often then not.  And the idea is to strive to eliminate the non-strikes as much as possible.  I think we do that most of the time.  But we can also get a lot better at it, too.

Fair enough.  
 

Regarding some of the top-50...   I point to Ballard’s comments from about 10-days ago....   that young DL often need 2-3 years to figure things out, sometimes more.   And he pointed to Jerry Hughes, who the Colts gave up on too early only to see him become a star in Buffalo. 
 

I haven’t given up on guys like Turay, Lewis, Benagu or Rock.  I don’t even view Hooker as a bust, because I don’t call anyone a bust who has been as seriously injured as he was.   All five of these guys not delivering more by now is frustrating and unfortunate.  But if Ballard remains optimistic about them, then I do too.  
 

Life as a fan becomes easier that way, at least for me! 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 1/18/2021 at 2:17 PM, chad72 said:

 

They could start it earlier though to spread out the groups. There is typically 3 weeks from end of SB to beginning of combine. Maybe they cut it to 2 weeks and have the combine earlier. All the scouting and prep work of the scouts would be mostly done. They would still have their Pro days, the combine won't be the "be all and end all" for seasoned GMs and scouts anyways.

 

Indy would already be in the mood for the "all teams in the same dome" environment that would be March Madness. So I don't think anyone would be caught less prepared, seems a reasonable thing to ask for, IMO.

 

They actually could have some drills During March Madness!

At halftime,  they could roll a artificial turf on the court and run some drills like the 40 yard Dash.... the snow cone drill.... etc... 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Only 5 players at each schools pro day? That seems extreme. A lot of players are going to get the shaft. This very well might be why the colts don’t take a QB. The NFL could do better then this.

 

 

[crazycolt1]

The teams with the best drafting crews will have the advantage. 

All the teams have the same disadvantage so it boils down to who has the best connections with the college level coaches and trainers.

The players brought it will have to have their face to face interviews done during what little training camp there will be. 

I think we have a pretty good system and has excelled so far so I'm not to concerned about it.