Chris Ballard end of season presser tomorrow 1 pm

[shasta519 2,961]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think Pitt can be a very good #2, who knows maybe a good #1. As the year went on I liked what I seen out of him better. Some in here don't have patience, most rookies struggle at times. Reggie Wayne did, JT did until the 2nd half of the season. If Pitt doesn't show improvement next year than we will have an idea what kind of player he is. I give rookies a break.

 

Lack of patience with WRs (for this fanbase) is to be somewhat expected. Through two regimes, the Colts haven't really procured a good WR since 2012 (outside of maybe Pascal). 

 

I agree that rookies struggle...but several rookie WRs have adjusted to the NFL very quickly. Would just be more encouraging if Pitt was one of those (as far as seeing him become a WR1). But I still think he's going to be a solid WR2. I just think they still need to add a good WR.

[Wentzszn 10,036]

With the cap going down I think any player who signs for a year should expect a percentage decrease in salary. 

[2006Coltsbestever 22,347]

Just now, richard pallo said:

I would too.  Just wishful thinking I guess. 

Rivers played good this year so he may think 20 is an insult is why it may take 25 again but other than a miracle trade for Watson or trading for Stafford, he is the best option IMO. I want no part of Wentz or Darnold.

[2006Coltsbestever 22,347]

6 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Lack of patience with WRs (for this fanbase) is to be somewhat expected. Through two regimes, the Colts haven't really procured a good WR since 2012 (outside of maybe Pascal). 

 

I agree that rookies struggle...but several rookie WRs have adjusted to the NFL very quickly. Would just be more encouraging if Pitt was one of those (as far as seeing him become a WR1). But I still think he's going to be a solid WR2. I just think they still need to add a good WR.

Yeah I see the anxiety with some because really since TY got drafted in 2012, we haven't had a very good #1 other than TY. I would classify TY's overall career as good, he was very good from 2012-2014. Not great like a Reggie or Marvin but the point I guess is we haven't drafted anyone of TY's caliber in 8 years.

[AustexColt 115]

Solve the REDZONE 2020 problem!!!  

 

The Colts will do Mack right. If there is a good deal for him they will let him go. Ballard is true to his word. Intuitively, I think people will be worried in giving Mack a big contract so he will stay a Colt. 

 

The Colts will go after a Veteran FA LT and RT for depth. He will draft more OL/DL for depth.

 

He will resign Xavier and TY (?).  Justin Houston and Denico Autry.

 

High draft pick will be on defense: CB or Pass Rusher

 

He will go after a veteran WR that will stretch the field.

 

QB:  He will sign a vet QB:  Darnold, Foles. I think Rivers is done. Darnold is 23years old while Foles is 31

[2006Coltsbestever 22,347]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I see the anxiety with some because really since TY got drafted in 2012, we haven't had a very good #1 other than TY. I would classify TY's overall career as good, he was very good from 2012-2014. Not great like a Reggie or Marvin but the point I guess is we haven't drafted anyone of TY's caliber in 8 years.

To follow this up. Moncrief comes to mind as a huge disappointment. I thought he could be a great #2 at least. He was a dud  . Campbell I was so excited about but he gets injured too much.

[richard pallo 2,819]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Rivers played good this year so he may think 20 is an insult is why it may take 25 again but other than a miracle trade for Watson or trading for Stafford, he is the best option IMO. I want no part of Wentz or Darnold.

I would be open to Darnold over Wentz.  Considering he was a high pick and only 23 with a lot of playing experience on a very bad team I would not have a problem with bringing him over.  No reason to think he couldn't succeed in the right circumstances like Tannehill did.  He would be my option 3. 

[pgt_rob 737]

I think the Jets are keeping Darnold as their QB. 

 

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I would be open to Darnold over Wentz.  Considering he was a high pick and only 23 with a lot of playing experience on a very bad team I would not have a problem with bringing him over.  No reason to think he couldn't succeed in the right circumstances like Tannehill did.  He would be my option 3. 

 

4 minutes ago, AustexColt said:

Solve the REDZONE 2020 problem!!!  

 

The Colts will do Mack right. If there is a good deal for him they will let him go. Ballard is true to his word. Intuitively, I think people will be worried in giving Mack a big contract so he will stay a Colt. 

 

The Colts will go after a Veteran FA LT and RT for depth. He will draft more OL/DL for depth.

 

He will resign Xavier and TY (?).  Justin Houston and Denico Autry.

 

High draft pick will be on defense: CB or Pass Rusher

 

He will go after a veteran WR that will stretch the field.

 

QB:  He will sign a vet QB:  Darnold, Foles. I think Rivers is done. Darnold is 23years old while Foles is 31

 

[2006Coltsbestever 22,347]

Just now, richard pallo said:

I would be open to Darnold over Wentz.  Considering he was a high pick and only 23 with a lot of playing experience on a very bad team I would not have a problem with bringing him over.  No reason to think he couldn't succeed in the right circumstances like Tannehill did.  He would be my option 3. 

I am iffy with Darnold but the Jets haven't put anything around him so good point. Wentz just looks shot to me, since his injury he hasn't been right and his contract is outrageous. Cowboys will franchise Dak again IMO.

[AustexColt 115]

I just think Ballard has an inside track with the Jets organization.

[#12. 1,095]

After listening to Frank and now Ballard, I don't think Rivers is returning.  That's my reading of it.  I saw a few tells.  

 

Wentz makes the most sense to me, if available.  We'll see what happens.

[2006Coltsbestever 22,347]

Just now, #12. said:

After listening to Frank and now Ballard, I don't think Rivers is returning.  That's my reading of it.  I saw a few tells.  

 

Wentz makes the most sense to me, if available.  We'll see what happens.

Wentz 

[#12. 1,095]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Wentz 

 

About 99% of the forum had the same opinion of Rivers last offseason. 

 

I'm not going by popular fan choices.  I'm predicting what I think will happen.

[2006Coltsbestever 22,347]

Just now, #12. said:

 

About 99% of the forum had the same opinion of Rivers last offseason. 

 

I'm not going by popular fan choices.  I'm predicting what I think will happen.

I loved the Rivers signing, Wentz is shot and his contract is outrageous so I don't see that.

[throwing BBZ 1,189]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

WE don't have a Keenan Allen  type of receiver.

 

 Allen is a nice talent. And Only 6'2". Rivers has enough arm to throw quicker, shorter passes on a line.
I was impressed the last half of the season or so with the Zip and ball placement Rivers had on so many of these types of passes. Extremely catchable stuff that you could run with.
 TE's are receivers too, and i will take a stronger arm QB that can create more time to pass ASAP.

[Nickster 881]

4 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Allen is a nice talent. And Only 6'2". Rivers has enough arm to throw quicker, shorter passes on a line.
I was impressed the last half of the season or so with the Zip and ball placement Rivers had on so many of these types of passes. Extremely catchable stuff that you could run with.
 TE's are receivers too, and i will take a stronger arm QB that can create more time to pass ASAP.

We just need one receiver TE or WR that defenses need to double in most situations.  I think it would be nice if this guy was an outside receiver.

[TimetobringDfence! 429]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

Lack of patience with WRs (for this fanbase) is to be somewhat expected. Through two regimes, the Colts haven't really procured a good WR since 2012 (outside of maybe Pascal). 

 

I agree that rookies struggle...but several rookie WRs have adjusted to the NFL very quickly. Would just be more encouraging if Pitt was one of those (as far as seeing him become a WR1). But I still think he's going to be a solid WR2. I just think they still need to add a good WR.

Pittman has the highest ceiling I've seen here in a long time. He even showed up big in his first playoff game. But I agree when another solid guy in the mix. Zach Pascal is good and consistent, but I dont see being more than a 3rd or 2nd WR.

[Four2itus 5,045]

11 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Pittman has the highest ceiling I've seen here in a long time. He even showed up big in his first playoff game. But I agree when another solid guy in the mix. Zach Pascal is good and consistent, but I dont see being more than a 3rd or 2nd WR.

I agree with this, but I would add that I see Pascal as a solid #2 to play alongside another #2 that matches dictate who is the guy that game. Not trying to mince words, I just think he is better than a 3rd WR, which is often considered the after thought. 

[shasta519 2,961]

17 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Pittman has the highest ceiling I've seen here in a long time. He even showed up big in his first playoff game. But I agree when another solid guy in the mix. Zach Pascal is good and consistent, but I dont see being more than a 3rd or 2nd WR.

 

Moncrief had a higher ceiling imo. But I actually like Pittman because of his floor. Colts need good WRs...I just think they need more of them. An alpha WR1 would be ideal...but that's easier said than done. Just looking at the FA group...there are going to be options...and I also think there will be WRs available via trade. 

 

Originally, I wanted to draft another WR this year...but I don't think they will be able to do that now...so getting a proven option will be imperative. If they don't address WR with an outside option...I will be very surprised. 

[shasta519 2,961]

1 hour ago, AustexColt said:

I just think Ballard has an inside track with the Jets organization.

 

I think you are right. And if the NYJ decide to keep Darnold...I think Ballard could pull off a trade up to #2 to get Zach Wilson. It's a crazy prediction...but so was the thought of acquiring DeFo this time last year.

[gspdx 625]

11 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

He didn’t rule out getting a vet, signing Rivers, or making a move in the draft or otherwise to get a younger QB IF they feel he’s the guy.  He just ruled out forcing the QB pick just to force it.  I think Ballard is wide open to a lot directions at QB right now as he should be and anyone reading too much into what he’s going to do (which you aren’t) is just looking for signs to support what they want him to do.  

 

Exactly.

 

If Ballard already had his mind made up I would say he isn't a very good GM.  He and his team will be very busy looking at what is possible and what it will cost.  Nothing is written in stone yet and shouldn't be.  I think Ballard told us exactly what is on his mind right now and he knows nothing is decided yet.

 

I know people want answers but the reality is there is no answer yet.

[gspdx 625]

44 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

About 99% of the forum had the same opinion of Rivers last offseason. 

 

I'm not going by popular fan choices.  I'm predicting what I think will happen.

 

I think a lot of this would hinge on the cost/benefit analysis.  I don't think Ballard makes lots of emotional decisions and the cost of a Wentz deal might be too risky. 

 

Not saying it won't happen but since Pedersen was fired and looks like Lurie preferred Wentz over Hurts as the starter this could be a meaningless discussion anyway.

 

It's going to be an interesting off-season for sure.

[shasta519 2,961]

2 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I think you are right. And if the NYJ decide to keep Darnold...I think Ballard could pull off a trade up to #2 to get Zach Wilson. It's a crazy prediction...but so was the thought of acquiring DeFo this time last year.

 

To add...I think the Saleh hire indicates that the NYJ will NOT draft a QB right now. They want to give Darnold another season or two with a new OC before they get rid of him.

 

This would be huge...because #2 would be in play. And with Ballard's relationship with the NYJ...he could put together a package that would entice them (especially given their affinity toward Colts players). 

[RollerColt 2,676]

1 hour ago, pgt_rob said:

I think the Jets are keeping Darnold as their QB. 

 

 

 

Honestly, that might be the best option they have. They know what they have in Sam, and there's a chance they can save him. Not to mention, they can walk into the 2021 draft and start asking how much other GMs want for the #2. 

[TimetobringDfence! 429]

55 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Moncrief had a higher ceiling imo. But I actually like Pittman because of his floor. Colts need good WRs...I just think they need more of them. An alpha WR1 would be ideal...but that's easier said than done. Just looking at the FA group...there are going to be options...and I also think there will be WRs available via trade. 

 

Originally, I wanted to draft another WR this year...but I don't think they will be able to do that now...so getting a proven option will be imperative. If they don't address WR with an outside option...I will be very surprised. 

I think Moncreif had more sure hands than Pittman, but Pittman can get open better.

[Wentzszn 10,036]

Ballard is going to let Rhodes test FA. I hope we can bring him back but if not I hope he has a plan.

[Wentzszn 10,036]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

Moncrief had a higher ceiling imo. But I actually like Pittman because of his floor. Colts need good WRs...I just think they need more of them. An alpha WR1 would be ideal...but that's easier said than done. Just looking at the FA group...there are going to be options...and I also think there will be WRs available via trade. 

 

Originally, I wanted to draft another WR this year...but I don't think they will be able to do that now...so getting a proven option will be imperative. If they don't address WR with an outside option...I will be very surprised. 

I would be shocked if we pay a WR in FA or give assets away for a WR.

[shasta519 2,961]

6 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I would be shocked if we pay a WR in FA or give assets away for a WR.

 

What would be shocking about that?

 

Both TY and Pascal are FAs...Campbell ended up on IR. Fountain is probably gone.

 

The WR group isn't in much better shape than it was last offseason. But this time there is actually going to be a really good market for WRs. 

[richard pallo 2,819]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

To add...I think the Saleh hire indicates that the NYJ will NOT draft a QB right now. They want to give Darnold another season or two with a new OC before they get rid of him.

 

This would be huge...because #2 would be in play. And with Ballard's relationship with the NYJ...he could put together a package that would entice them (especially given their affinity toward Colts players). 

I think we are in a great position either way with the Jets.  If they want to trade the pick I think we are in a great position to get first dibs and the same goes for Darnold if they want to move on.   Trading up for the QB and then let him sit behind Rivers for a year is not a bad idea.   Use FA to get at least a ER and WR and see what happens and go for it.  

[Wentzszn 10,036]

5 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

What would be shocking about that?

 

Both TY and Pascal are FAs...Campbell ended up on IR. Fountain is probably gone.

 

The WR group isn't in much better shape than it was last offseason. But this time there is actually going to be a really good market for WRs. 

Pascal is restricted he will be back. Matter of fact I expect a actual extension rather then rendering him. You don’t give assets away for a WR. That is to expensive. Plus WR that are available in FA are going to be way to expensive.

[shasta519 2,961]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think we are in a great position either way with the Jets.  If they want to trade the pick I think we are in a great position to get first dibs and the same goes for Darnold if they want to move on.   Trading up for the QB and then let him sit behind Rivers for a year is not a bad idea.   Use FA to get at least a ER and WR and see what happens and go for it.  

Yeah...the Darnold trade is an easy one to see happening. 
 

But it would require a massive trade up to get to #2...and people would hate it. For reference...LAR traded up to #1 from #15 in 2016...they gave (2) 2nds and a 3rd that year PLUS next year’s 1st and 3rd. So basically an extra 1st, (2) 2nds and (2) 3rds. But that was to get to #1 in a QB class that had two top QBs and little else. In the Colts case, they would be trading up to have their pick of three QBs that aren’t quite as highly rated.

 

So I think it would be slightly less...but still a massive amount. The question I have is...do the Colts have any young players that could offset draft capital? Of course they do...but any that they would be willing to deal? Can’t trade Nelson or Leonard...and probably not Smith...so who else could replace Day Two picks in a trade? I really don’t know. 
 

What I do know is that if you run it back with Rivers (and don’t acquire a potential long-term option)...they will be in the same situation in a weaker QB class. That is not a position I want to be in.

[stitches 8,437]

7 hours ago, csmopar said:

Would you call Reggie Wayne an X receiver?

 

 

Reggie looked putrid for 2, almost 3 seasons before he finally exploded. I say give Pitman time, because it’s too early to judge one way or the other. He could just be another guy, or he could explode into a force. Plus with the way Rivers plays, spreading it out and such, we may not truly know what we have in any of our WRs until Rivers is gone. Not saying rivers is bad or anything, he just spreads it around, ALOT

This is not about his production. His production was actually good for a rookie receiver. I'm talking about the ways he was getting his production and whether thos bodes well for his prospects as an X receiver for us. I thought he would be X for us before the draft. But he's done nothing of what X receivers need to do well in his rookie year. He doesn't beat anyone one on one, he can't catch a contested ball, he has very little production downfield. 

 

There was an insane split of his production and usage before and after his injury. Before his injury he took only 6-7% of his snaps from the slot ... and was bad in those games. After he returned from his injury he took 65%+ of his snaps from the slot and he started to produce. This was mainly on schemed throws... crossing routes, mesh concepts, slants... where he would get the ball short against a confused defense or a defensive breakdown and he would gain a lot of his yards after the catch. This is useful too. You can always use YAC receivers... but what I imagined him being able to do pre-draft, he's not been able to do. My worry is more about his role in this offense than about his production. What happens if Parris gets healthy and stays healthy? IMO he has better traits for that slot role than Pittman and will likely get most of those snaps. So where do we use Pittman so he can be productive? This is my concern... 

[Wentzszn 10,036]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

This is not about his production. His production was actually good for a rookie receiver. I'm talking about the ways he was getting his production and whether thos bodes well for his prospects as an X receiver for us. I thought he would be X for us before the draft. But he's done nothing of what X receivers need to do well in his rookie year. He doesn't beat anyone one on one, he can't catch a contested ball, he has very little production downfield. 

 

There was an insane split of his production and usage before and after his injury. Before his injury he took only 6-7% of his snaps from the slot ... and was bad in those games. After he returned from his injury he took 65%+ of his snaps from the slot and he started to produce. This was mainly on schemed throws... crossing routes, mesh concepts, slants... where he would get the ball short against a confused defense or a defensive breakdown and he would gain a lot of his yards after the catch. This is useful too. You can always use YAC receivers... but what I imagined him being able to do pre-draft, he's not been able to do. My worry is more about his role in this offense than about his production. What happens if Parris gets healthy and stays healthy? IMO he has better traits for that slot role than Pittman and will likely get most of those snaps. So where do we use Pittman so he can be productive? This is my concern... 

Can’t or hasn’t been asked to catch contested balls yet? He has a lot more I think he will show as he develops.

[shasta519 2,961]

20 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Pascal is restricted he will be back. Matter of fact I expect a actual extension rather then rendering him. You don’t give assets away for a WR. That is to expensive. Plus WR that are available in FA are going to be way to expensive.

Pascal will likely get a tender...but it won’t keep another team from signing him. If the Colts put a 2nd round tender on him...he will cost ~$3.5M (I don’t see a team giving up a 2nd round pick to sign Pascal). But I don’t think they will do that to him. So if they put an original round tender on him...I could definitely see a team giving him a two-year offer the Colts won’t want to match.

 

But Pascal or no Pascal...it doesn’t really change the WR outlook. Either he’s back at a much higher rate or he’s gone.

 

Then you also have TY who could leave in FA or be re-signed to a much reduced role. If he’s back...it’s in a reduced role...which means you have to replace his production as the WR1.

 

My point is that brining back the same WR room doesn’t move the needle...so the Colts should definitely be addressing it via FA/trade or the draft. And it just so happens that there will be several available. Of course it will cost something...but that’s because WRs are valuable. 
 

TE won’t be nearly as costly though. 

[Superman 9,409]

10 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

But I don’t think they will do that to him. So if they put an original round tender on him...I could definitely see a team giving him a two-year offer the Colts won’t want to match.

 

But Pascal or no Pascal...it doesn’t really change the WR outlook. Either he’s back at a much higher rate or he’s gone.

 

Agreed, and that's what I would do. But I bet they use the 2nd round tender.

[shasta519 2,961]

14 minutes ago, stitches said:

This is not about his production. His production was actually good for a rookie receiver. I'm talking about the ways he was getting his production and whether thos bodes well for his prospects as an X receiver for us. I thought he would be X for us before the draft. But he's done nothing of what X receivers need to do well in his rookie year. He doesn't beat anyone one on one, he can't catch a contested ball, he has very little production downfield. 

 

There was an insane split of his production and usage before and after his injury. Before his injury he took only 6-7% of his snaps from the slot ... and was bad in those games. After he returned from his injury he took 65%+ of his snaps from the slot and he started to produce. This was mainly on schemed throws... crossing routes, mesh concepts, slants... where he would get the ball short against a confused defense or a defensive breakdown and he would gain a lot of his yards after the catch. This is useful too. You can always use YAC receivers... but what I imagined him being able to do pre-draft, he's not been able to do. My worry is more about his role in this offense than about his production. What happens if Parris gets healthy and stays healthy? IMO he has better traits for that slot role than Pittman and will likely get most of those snaps. So where do we use Pittman so he can be productive? This is my concern... 

 

Relative to other highly-rated rookie WRs...I wouldn’t call his production really good. Recently, rookie WRs have been able to adjust pretty quickly to the NFL...probably because the NFL has really adopted the spread.

 

After the second TEN game...where he caught 2/9 for 28 yards...the passing game shifted back to Hilton and Pascal as WR1 and WR2. Kudos to them for using him in the BUF game...because it did catch BUF off guard.

 

The snap splits are interesting...and seems to signal a concerted move to create more opportunities...but it could also signal a realization that he wasn’t winning outside.

 

I am with you...there are lots of guys that can play slot WR and be schemed open. What the Colts need is a true WR who can win everywhere. Much easier said than done...but they should try.

[Wentzszn 10,036]

I will bet they sign pascal to a 2 or 3 year extension. Ballard loves him and he actually led the teams in explosive plays.  Maybe they tender him while working that out but I think he will be a a staple in this offense for awhile. Every team needs a guy like him.

[GoColts8818 4,690]

4 hours ago, #12. said:

After listening to Frank and now Ballard, I don't think Rivers is returning.  That's my reading of it.  I saw a few tells.  

 

Wentz makes the most sense to me, if available.  We'll see what happens.

Remember the Eagles made a head coaching change.  Wentz may well not be on the block.

[CoachLite 416]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think it's just post hoc confirmation bias, though. 

 

In 2018, Ballard says 'we have some cap space, but the draft is the foundation and I want more picks, and I don't know if we're ready to bring in major FAs before we've established our culture.' People spent the next two months looking at the FAs they wanted him to sign, but he traded back, made moves to diversify his draft stock, then signed Denico Autry and Eric Ebron, two second tier guys. Fans and media freaked out, because he didn't 'go all in' like they thought he would.

 

He basically did the same thing in 2019 -- Justin Houston and Devin Funchess, both second tier guys, no major commitments from the team. 

 

Then in 2020, in a noticeable shift from previous years, Ballard says 'we might be ready for some bigger moves,' and signs a FA QB, trades a first for Buckner and gives him a huge contract, etc. He also said 'we're still evaluating the QB position with JB, but he's valuable to us.' Again, signed Rivers, then despite everyone thinking they were going to get rid of JB one way or another, they kept him all season and incorporated him into the offense. He also signaled that they would trade out of the first, which they did.

 

I'm not saying Ballard is dropping codes that we need to decipher, just saying that he pretty much shoots straight, and when you connect his statements with his actions, they tend to line up pretty well. 

'Reading the tea leaves' is a poor way of predicting the future. The complexity of Ballard's job requires a lot of flexibility to deal with all the uncertainties in the NFL, and a lot of information, too.

[Superman 9,409]

44 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

'Reading the tea leaves' is a poor way of predicting the future. The complexity of Ballard's job requires a lot of flexibility to deal with all the uncertainties in the NFL, and a lot of information, too.

 

I'm not trying to predict the future, just giving my thoughts, which is what this site is for. Obviously none of us know what's going to happen this offseason.