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You don't fire a coach who has two eleven-win seasons, has endured a future HOF QB retiring in his prime, and whose team is just finishing their rebuild. Reich may have some serious issues with playcalling, but he is obviously a strong leader of men and our players respect him, two things that are not easy to find. Besides, if we were to fire Reich, who out there is an obvious upgrade? I wouldn't want to take a chance on any of those unknown coaching candidate this season, not when we have a roster ready to compete right now.

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You know...    The “Delete” function works for 30 minutes  once you make a post.    So you have about 25 left.   You’re talking about trading our coach?!?    Oh Dear God!  

I’ve been thinking about a scenario. If Philadelphia decides to fire Pederson, could we somehow facilitate a trade where we send them Reich and he could try to resurrect the career of Wentz there in P

The only way I trade Reich to Philly is if it includes unlimited Cheese Steaks for fans at Colts games. Otherwise, no deal!

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On 1/10/2021 at 1:15 PM, Smoke317 said:

I’ve been thinking about a scenario. If Philadelphia decides to fire Pederson, could we somehow facilitate a trade where we send them Reich and he could try to resurrect the career of Wentz there in Philly?  I prefer that scenario over trying to bring Wentz to Indy.  Don’t know if a coach has ever been traded but I remember talk years ago about the 49ers wanting to trade Jim Harbaugh to the Cleveland Browns.  

The move makes a lot of sense for the Eagles especially if they’re stuck with Wentz and believe Frank can fix him. In this scenario, what could we get for him?  3rd rounder?  2nd?  But if we did that, who would we turn to as a replacement for Frank?  Also, the only way we trade Reich is if Rivers retires or we let him walk. Is there any potential head coaching candidates that could step in with this team and a new QB (Stafford, Eason, or move up in the draft for one) and win next year?  
 

Any young up and comers?  I’m intrigued by the OC Brady that’s in Carolina. He turned Burrow into a college legend at LSU and his passing concepts are aggressive and dynamic. Panthers had two 1000 yard receivers this season with him as OC.  Young man could be the next Shanahan or McVey.  Better get him soon before the interest in him really ramps up.  Any others?

 

Mods feel free to merge this if there’s a better spot for it.  Since it’s not really a bash Reich or Reich/Bills game specific post, I didn’t know if it fit with the others.  Thanks. 

There's only two ways this can happen, we either trade Reich to Philly or we fire him.  We're not firing him and we're not trading him unless Philly were to offer us their entire farm. 

 

Philly can't even request to interview him per league rules. They cant even contact him or his agent about it either.  it's a lateral move. If it were a promotion to GM, then they could request it.

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From Philly's perspective it may be worth it to offer us their 1st for Reich (and we should take it).  Here's why.  If they're stuck with Wentz and can't trade him, they have to try and fix him.  Too expensive to just cut him.  Reich is the best candidate for that job because of his history with Wentz.  But there's even more reasons for Philly to want Reich. 

 

That team could very well be on the verge of fracturing if the Wentz/Hurts situation isn't handled properly next year.  Reich is a great leader and character guy.  I think he could come in and design a system where Hurts has a package (we've seen him do it with Jacoby) and they use both QB's effectively.  Rebuilding up Wentz and getting Hurts some development where they could try to get some trade value out of either in a couple years.  All while keeping some unity inside the locker room.

 

Send that 1st Eagles.  

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On 1/10/2021 at 3:41 PM, dw49 said:

 

The Miami thing was I think was for  Don Nottingham. Miami did it as the NFL was hitting them with losing a first rounder due to "tampering."

 

Yeah... agree we aren't trading Reich

 

The Human Bowling Ball.  haha

 

Did not know colts got a #1 pick for Shula..... I thought he just left Baltimore for Miami. 

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I don't hate Frank.   Someone posted on another locked thread that Frank won 28 games in 3 years with 3 different QB's (2 of which were basically HoF level).  A guy like Matt Nagy can say try winning 28 games in 3 seasons with Mitchell Trubisky and Nick Foles at QB...  Should he be automatically retained as well?  I think there are other coaches that could have also won with this roster Ballard and staff have put together.  We had 6 All Pros this year and only (yes only with 6 all pros) went 11-5 vs the easiest schedule in the league. 

 

Check out these numbers.  Our record vs teams with winning records was 2-4.  If you want to count the 8-8 bears and raiders you can stretch that to 4-4.  That's a .500 record vs good teams.  Our record vs AFC playoff teams (including the playoff game) was 1-5.  That's a winning percentage of   .167 vs most of our toughest Conference rivals. 

 

Now looking at those numbers did Frank really get the most out of a team with 6 All Pros (and that doesn't include studs like Smith, Hines, Moore, and Rhodes)?  Judging from those numbers maybe Mr Analytics Coach isn't as great as we thought???  Or at least he wasn't this year.  Haven't checked the previous 2 years.

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2 hours ago, chickenMan said:

You don't fire a coach who has two eleven-win seasons, has endured a future HOF QB retiring in his prime, and whose team is just finishing their rebuild. Reich may have some serious issues with playcalling, but he is obviously a strong leader of men and our players respect him, two things that are not easy to find. Besides, if we were to fire Reich, who out there is an obvious upgrade? I wouldn't want to take a chance on any of those unknown coaching candidate this season, not when we have a roster ready to compete right now.

 

I, like many here don't like some of the playcalling,  game management etc... that Reich does. However, I don't want him fired either, who will replace him.

 

But, there have been teams that moved on from coaches with good records.

Tampa moved on from Dungy... Broncos moved on from Shanahan...... Yankees moved on from Girardi ....Irsay was looking to move on from Pagano even though he posted a 33-15 record plus 3 playoff wins in first 3 seasons, but couldn't get a Big Name coach like he wanted.

 

It sometimes happens when teams start counting the lack of Championships over regular season wins.

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43 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

How about hiring Pederson at OC to call plays lol.. Only half joking.

That could work but Reich would never go for it.  Especially since Pederson wouldn't let him call them as OC.  Frank unwilling to relinquish play calling could be a reason to seek a separation?

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5 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

That could work but Reich would never go for it.  Especially since Pederson wouldn't let him call them as OC.  Frank unwilling to relinquish play calling could be a reason to seek a separation?

 

I honestly don't want Frank fired. I really want a different play caller though. I'd stomach another year of Reich calling plays just to see if he improves/learns, but I just don't think he will. He comes across pretty set in his ways. Even when he throws himself under the bus at pressers, he still does the same stuff next week.

 

Overall, I think play calling / scheme on both sides of the ball have limited our game more than talent.

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Pagano had a real nice looking record for a long time, but he was still Pagano, so I’m over hearing about his record. He constantly does just as much as our opponent to get in our way with his dubious play calling and decision making. 
 

It is entirely possible for a guy to earn a playoff berth and still be the biggest thing impeding his team. 
 

I’ll even leave this here for dramatic effect:

4281EDFE-0F5B-4B91-B38A-40740E8EF668.jpeg

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22 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Pagano had a real nice looking record for a long time, but he was still Pagano, so I’m over hearing about his record. He constantly does just as much as our opponent to get in our way with his dubious play calling and decision making. 
 

It is entirely possible for a guy to earn a playoff berth and still be the biggest thing impeding his team. 
 

I’ll even leave this here for dramatic effect:4281EDFE-0F5B-4B91-B38A-40740E8EF668.jpeg

Yep. Pagano benefited from Luck and Clyde Christen more than the Colts benefited from Pagano. 

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40 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Pagano had a real nice looking record for a long time, but he was still Pagano, so I’m over hearing about his record. He constantly does just as much as our opponent to get in our way with his dubious play calling and decision making. 
 

It is entirely possible for a guy to earn a playoff berth and still be the biggest thing impeding his team. 
 

I’ll even leave this here for dramatic effect:

4281EDFE-0F5B-4B91-B38A-40740E8EF668.jpeg

 

Yet Reich had a far superior OL, far superior D, far superior GM, both had JB for a year, and their records are the same, and Pagano has a better post season record. Context is king.

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On 1/10/2021 at 11:15 AM, Smoke317 said:

I’ve been thinking about a scenario. If Philadelphia decides to fire Pederson, could we somehow facilitate a trade where we send them Reich and he could try to resurrect the career of Wentz there in Philly?  I prefer that scenario over trying to bring Wentz to Indy.  Don’t know if a coach has ever been traded but I remember talk years ago about the 49ers wanting to trade Jim Harbaugh to the Cleveland Browns.  

The move makes a lot of sense for the Eagles especially if they’re stuck with Wentz and believe Frank can fix him. In this scenario, what could we get for him?  3rd rounder?  2nd?  But if we did that, who would we turn to as a replacement for Frank?  Also, the only way we trade Reich is if Rivers retires or we let him walk. Is there any potential head coaching candidates that could step in with this team and a new QB (Stafford, Eason, or move up in the draft for one) and win next year?  
 

Any young up and comers?  I’m intrigued by the OC Brady that’s in Carolina. He turned Burrow into a college legend at LSU and his passing concepts are aggressive and dynamic. Panthers had two 1000 yard receivers this season with him as OC.  Young man could be the next Shanahan or McVey.  Better get him soon before the interest in him really ramps up.  Any others?

 

Mods feel free to merge this if there’s a better spot for it.  Since it’s not really a bash Reich or Reich/Bills game specific post, I didn’t know if it fit with the others.  Thanks. 

This topic doesn't have anything to do with your handle, does it?

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1 hour ago, HectorRoberts said:

Could we just trade your fan hood to philly instead? That way we don’t have to see these thoughtless threads pop up?

I’d put my Indy Colts fan hood up against yours any day of the week.   And twice, in the building       :colts:  :lombardi::rock:       :colts::lombardi::Cry:, on Super Bowl Sundays.  I was a fan before Frank Reich became Colts head coach and God willing I’ll be one after he’s hopefully retired with a couple more world championship banners hanging up in the rafters.  My fan hood can’t be traded. I’ll never cheer for another NFL team over the Colts. Frank could one day work for another franchise. Would you cheer for Frank and that team over the Colts?  Check my post 4 or 5 posts up and explain those numbers I listed that show maybe this thread isn’t as thoughtless as you believe it to be...

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5 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

I honestly don't want Frank fired. I really want a different play caller though. I'd stomach another year of Reich calling plays just to see if he improves/learns, but I just don't think he will. He comes across pretty set in his ways. Even when he throws himself under the bus at pressers, he still does the same stuff next week.

 

Overall, I think play calling / scheme on both sides of the ball have limited our game more than talent.

I think Frank is a good coach, I want him back. He has his bad moments but also has some great moments like with any coach. Hard to complain about an 11-5 season and going toe to toe with a Bills team that was on fire.

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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think Frank is a good coach, I want him back. He has his bad moments but also has some great moments like with any coach. Hard to complain about an 11-5 season and going toe to toe with a Bills team that was on fire.

I'm not a Ws and Ls guy. If you're happy with 11-5, then you should be happy with ever single player and coach coming back. I look at players and coaches the same. If they're not cutting it, change their position or cut them loose. Frank needs a change. He's not a rookie. 

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11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'm not a Ws and Ls guy. If you're happy with 11-5, then you should be happy with ever single player and coach coming back. I look at players and coaches the same. If they're not cutting it, change their position or cut them loose. Frank needs a change. He's not a rookie. 

I am happy with an 11-5 season but we do need to improve if we want to win the SB.

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People keep making jokes about this topic. As if Frank has been Bill Belichick or something and he doesn’t deserve to be looked at with a little more skepticism.  Laugh now. Cry later. I’ve got some numbers I want you guys to mull over and you tell me if these numbers are a joke?  Maybe you can explain them to me because I may be overlooking some context.  Here are Frank’s career winning numbers:

 

2018 (Luck as QB):  Record vs teams with winning records (8-8 or better):  4-3 (2 of those 4 wins came against Mariota & Gabbert’s 9-7 Titans). 6-3 vs teams with losing records.  10-6  overall record.  Record vs playoff teams including any playoff games:  3-4 (2-3 vs AFC playoff teams). 

I say all were underachievements because we were ultimately forced to go on the road in the playoffs to the  12-4 Chiefs.  It’s always risky to go back and say what if with individual games but I will in this case because Frank’s decisions had direct impact on the outcome of two games. Those were the Texans and Jags games where Frank went for it and basically gifted the Texans a win and against the Jags where he refused to take the points multiple times in a 6-0 SHUTOUT  loss. 1 win and 1 tie and we’re the 2 seed at 11-4-1. That’s not even factoring the bad losses to the 4-12 Jets and 6-10 Bengals. Did that team really reach max potential?  

 

2019 (Jacoby as QB):  Record vs teams with winning records (8-8 or better):  3-4 (1 of those 3 against Mariota’s 9-7 Titans). 4-5 vs teams with losing records.  7-9 overall record.  Record vs playoff teams including any playoff games:  3-3 (3-2 vs AFC Playoff teams).  Win over a “hobbled” Mahomes (we’ll take it) and that Mariota win (not really that impressive since Tannehill lead Titans resurgence). 

Overall another underachieving year.  Why?  Missed the playoffs.  How many games did sticking with Vinny cost us?  Bad call starting Hoyer and letting him spray it all over the yard. Can’t even remember if there were more Frank bad judgment plays this particular season but the record speaks for itself. Bad losses to 5-11 Chargers & Dolphins. Also 6-10 Jags. Watched 9-7 Titans (not truly a better team than us imo) reach the AFC title game with Tannehill putting up pedestrian passing numbers along the way (72, 88, & 209 yards) basically using our Chiefs game blueprint. We couldn’t have done that with our OLine & Jacoby?  Did that team reach max potential?

 

2020 (Rivers as QB):  Record vs teams with winning records (8-8 or better):  4-4 (2 wins against 8-8 Bears & Raiders). 7-1 record vs teams with losing records (finally winning the games we should. But... We’ll come back to this later.). 11-5 overall record. Record vs playoff teams including any playoff games:  3-5 (1-5 vs AFC Playoff teams).  Great win over Rodgers and Packers. Win over Foles lead Bears not really impressive as Trubisky lead their resurgence). 

Overall another underachieving year.  Why?  Failure to beat any other AFC playoff participant on our schedule besides Titans once and being the only team to lose to the 1-15 Jags ultimately cost us the AFC South crown.  Only expanded playoffs got us in the dance.  Abandoning the running game in close games or games where we held 2nd half leads (Jags, Ravens, Steelers) had us settling for an 11-5 record and a road wild card game when this team easily had 14-2 or 13-3 potential vs the easiest schedule in the league.  In both our first and last games of the season (Jags loss just like in 2018 & Bills playoff loss), Frank doesn’t take the points and we ultimately end up getting stopped, ceding momentum, and losing close games at the end.  We became the first team in playoff history to get 450 plus yards, no turnovers, and lose.  We had 6 All Pros and that doesn’t include Smith, Moore, Hines, Houston, & Rhodes.  Did this team reach max potential?

 

Frank’s overall record vs winning teams (8-8 or better) is 11-11 in his 3 years.  17-9 vs teams with losing records.  9-12 vs all playoff teams. 6-10 vs AFC playoff teams.  These numbers say Frank is a .500 coach vs winning teams (includes two 8-8 teams) over his tenure. Numbers say Frank’s teams haven’t quite taken care of business vs teams that we should beat judging by our only .654 winning percentage vs teams with losing records. That number should be higher.  I just showed above that a game or 2 have cost us division titles, home field advantage, playoff berths and whatever other successes we potentially missed out on by not maximizing our chances. His .429 winning percentage vs all playoff teams is under .500 and his percentage vs only AFC playoff teams is even worse at .375.  
 

What about these numbers say Frank should be untouchable and we shouldn’t be looking deeper into whether we can upgrade at Head Coach?  Matt Nagy has the same overall record 28-20 (.583) as Frank over the past 3 years.  He didn’t have Luck & Rivers (2 HoF caliber QB’s). He had Trubisky & Foles.  Is Frank really a much better coach than Nagy if he’s better at all?  
 

And to tie this back in to the original topic of this thread.  Frank is 9-3 vs the NFC in his 3 years as our coach.  That’s a .750 overall winning percentage. 3-2 vs NFC teams with winning records (.600) and 6-1 vs NFC teams with losing records (.857).  Clearly better than any of his overall winning percentages with us or vs just vs AFC teams in similar circumstances. So why wouldn’t he be a great fit for the Eagles and why shouldn’t we be trying to get some draft capital from them as compensation for Frank’s services?  His game plans seem to work better vs NFC teams. I think it’s a win/win for both organizations. 

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16 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

From Philly's perspective it may be worth it to offer us their 1st for Reich (and we should take it).  Here's why.  If they're stuck with Wentz and can't trade him, they have to try and fix him.  Too expensive to just cut him.  Reich is the best candidate for that job because of his history with Wentz.  But there's even more reasons for Philly to want Reich. 

 

That team could very well be on the verge of fracturing if the Wentz/Hurts situation isn't handled properly next year.  Reich is a great leader and character guy.  I think he could come in and design a system where Hurts has a package (we've seen him do it with Jacoby) and they use both QB's effectively.  Rebuilding up Wentz and getting Hurts some development where they could try to get some trade value out of either in a couple years.  All while keeping some unity inside the locker room.

 

Send that 1st Eagles.  

If Frank isn't a good coach,   why would the eagles trade for him?

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8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I'm not a Ws and Ls guy. If you're happy with 11-5, then you should be happy with ever single player and coach coming back. I look at players and coaches the same. If they're not cutting it, change their position or cut them loose. Frank needs a change. He's not a rookie. 


I’d be willing to try another year with someone else in charge of the offense and calling plays. The team seems to love Frank, and Frank is a genuinely good guy that every organization benefits from having in its culture. So if we can structure things differently and make it work great. 
 

But we’ve seen it before, literally to a painful level: being a great human being that the players love to play for doesn’t equal being a good coach. I’m afraid that’s what we’ve got with Frank. 
 

Lots of people will try to balk at that, but go watch those same people’s reactions out in the wild when you bring up a name like Marty Schottenheimer. They’ll immediately peg him as a coach who couldn’t cut it in the playoffs. 
 

It’s ok to acknowledge someone’s weaknesses and limits. It really is. 

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1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

If Frank isn't a good coach,   why would the eagles trade for him?


Why did the Jets bring in Gase after the results in Miami? Why did we bring in Rhodes after it looked like he was washed up with the Vikings?

 

Teams take chances on guys they think can help them win. 
 

If Jeff Laurie sat down with Wentz yesterday morning and said “what do we need to do to get your career back on track?” And Wentz answered “the only thing that can fix me is Frank” would Laurie have laughed in his face and told him to have a good day?

 

Absolutely not. Which is why this scenario is at least possible, even though highly unlikely. Laurie would likely at least put some effort into following up on the idea for his high paid QB that he’s in bed with for the foreseeable future regardless of his own, or anyone else’s personal opinion on Frank. 
 

That’s why the whole notion that this is just a ridiculous idea is just being too quick on the draw. Unlikely? Absolutely. Ridiculous? Absolutely not. 

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15 minutes ago, John Waylon said:


Why did the Jets bring in Gase after the results in Miami? Why did we bring in Rhodes after it looked like he was washed up with the Vikings?

 

Teams take chances on guys they think can help them win. 
 

If Jeff Laurie sat down with Wentz yesterday morning and said “what do we need to do to get your career back on track?” And Wentz answered “the only thing that can fix me is Frank” would Laurie have laughed in his face and told him to have a good day?

 

Absolutely not. Which is why this scenario is at least possible, even though highly unlikely. Laurie would likely at least put some effort into following up on the idea for his high paid QB that he’s in bed with for the foreseeable future regardless of his own, or anyone else’s personal opinion on Frank. 
 

That’s why the whole notion that this is just a ridiculous idea is just being too quick on the draw. Unlikely? Absolutely. Ridiculous? Absolutely not. 

Yes,   it's ridiculous.   Has 0 percent chance of happening.     Even if the c eagles were willing to do some kind of trade,   Ballard would want more than they would be willing to offer. 

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2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

If Frank isn't a good coach,   why would the eagles trade for him?

He is a good coach. Maybe just not good enough to get us over the top?  But he’d be perfect for the Eagles right now.  They have a young QB that they’ve committed a critical amount of the cap too.  They have to fix him.  But they may also have to mend some cracks in their locker room.  Frank is the perfect guy and he’ll still get Hurts development by creating a package for him ala Jacoby.  Frank has done a decent to good job of beating the easy teams on our schedule considering our good rosters.  He’s a .500 coach vs winning teams.  But he’s 6-10 (.375) vs AFC playoff teams (our closest peers again considering our roster).   So where do the rest of his wins come from?  NFC teams.  
 

I showed in another post where his winning percentage vs NFC teams is significantly better than his winning percentage vs AFC teams.  The sample size is smaller but his play calling seems to work better in that conference.  We just can’t beat the best AFC teams with Frank.  Over half of those 6 wins are where we eeked out splits vs our division rivals but we never actually “win” the division because we find ways to lose 2-3 games a year to teams with losing records.  This year we finally crush the cans on our schedule (7-1) we can still only beat 1 AFC playoff team outta the 6 matchups (1-5).  
 

Ballard should explore getting a 1st or 2nd from Philly for Frank.  Move Flus up to HC or go find his guy.  Frank was never an initial CB candidate.  Frank has gotten us as far as he’s gonna get us.  We’ll be playing a tougher schedule next year. And I think his numbers will show to be the same.  We’ll be somewhere in the 7-10 win range.  Around .500 or less vs all winning teams and less than that vs AFC winning teams.  Probably go 3-1 vs NFC West but have a losing record vs the other AFC playoff contenders.  And have a loss or 2 vs a team with a losing record that season.  

 

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36 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Yes,   it's ridiculous.   Has 0 percent chance of happening.     Even if the c eagles were willing to do some kind of trade,   Ballard would want more than they would be willing to offer. 

What’s more than they would be willing to offer?  Their 1st?  Top 6 pick. Or Their 2nd?  Top 40 pick?  I think it would be worth it for them to offer us either. Maybe we swap firsts and we get their 2nd?

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Historically speaking Frank is one of the best coaches the Colts have had in the past 48 years. Only Dungy and Caldwell have fared better(maybe that was because of a guy named Peyton Manning?) Marchibroda, when he had Bert Jones had a good record, remember how he did after Jones got hurt in '78? Ron Meyer did okay. Show me where the Colt franchise has had spectacular coaches over the years. Some of you act like there are many better options out there. News break, there aren't. Ballards biggest and really only gaffe thus far was when he tried to hire Mcsuckles. How did that genius look this past season running the offense with Newton at the helm???? We got lucky we could hire Frank. The players love playing for Frank and that is half the battle. Three seasons, 28-20 overall record with 3 different starting qb's. Frank should get a contract extension, not shown the door.

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1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

What’s more than they would be willing to offer?  Their 1st?  Top 6 pick. Or Their 2nd?  Top 40 pick?  I think it would be worth it for them to offer us either. Maybe we swap firsts and we get their 2nd?

 

What's your Plan B?  Just in case this Frank Reich trade falls through.

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31 minutes ago, Two_pound said:

Historically speaking Frank is one of the best coaches the Colts have had in the past 48 years. Only Dungy and Caldwell have fared better(maybe that was because of a guy named Peyton Manning?) Marchibroda, when he had Bert Jones had a good record, remember how he did after Jones got hurt in '78? Ron Meyer did okay. Show me where the Colt franchise has had spectacular coaches over the years. Some of you act like there are many better options out there. News break, there aren't. Ballards biggest and really only gaffe thus far was when he tried to hire Mcsuckles. How did that genius look this past season running the offense with Newton at the helm???? We got lucky we could hire Frank. The players love playing for Frank and that is half the battle. Three seasons, 28-20 overall record with 3 different starting qb's. Frank should get a contract extension, not shown the door.

Frank is 6-10 vs AFC playoff teams over his 3 years.  That’s a .375 winning percentage.  We come up short vs the better teams regardless of who’s the QB under Frank.  Is there another reason we’re 6-10?  Bad luck?  Lack of preparedness?  Refs/ League cheating us?  Poor in game management/adjustments?  Just asking.  Because I don’t know if Frank is one of the best coaches we’ve ever had.  Could be.  But I do know that Ballard has provided him with one of the most complete rosters we’ve had as far back as I can remember.  There’s no reason a team with 6 All Pros finishes 1-5 vs AFC Playoff teams this year.  We simply go .500 and we’re 13-3 and the 2nd or 3rd seed and division champs.  Why were we the only team to lose to the 1 loss Jags?  We underachieved not reached this team’s max potential. 

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14 minutes ago, ThePowerslave said:

 

What's your Plan B?  Just in case this Frank Reich trade falls through.

I fear we keep Reich & bring back Rivers. Hoping to scrape back into the dance next year and seeing what we have in Eason for 2022.  If we do keep Reich, I’d rather go get Stafford and see if Frank can get something more outta him.  Rivers lack of mobility and off schedule ability forced Reich to be perfect with his play calling. Stafford could also be a good mentor for Eason.  And he always gets hurt so Eason would end up getting live action next season. 
 

Bringing in a broken Wentz or fellow turnover machine Darnold, and pairing them with Frank who can’t win vs the better AFC teams but still manages to lose 1-3 games vs losing teams will watch this team sink into mediocrity.  That’s unacceptable with this roster. Is the goal to maintain a level of mediocrity or are we shooting for Super Bowl or Bust with this super talented roster?  
 

If we can’t get Stafford, then I wouldn’t mind moving up and getting a young stud QB in the draft this year. Maybe another dynamic talent like Luck (not battered into submission like Andrew) could lift Frank to another level. I think we’re gonna need a game breaking QB to overcome Frank’s shortcomings. 

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7 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

People keep making jokes about this topic. As if Frank has been Bill Belichick or something and he doesn’t deserve to be looked at with a little more skepticism.  Laugh now. Cry later. I’ve got some numbers I want you guys to mull over and you tell me if these numbers are a joke?  Maybe you can explain them to me because I may be overlooking some context.  Here are Frank’s career winning numbers:

 

2018 (Luck as QB):  Record vs teams with winning records (8-8 or better):  4-3 (2 of those 4 wins came against Mariota & Gabbert’s 9-7 Titans). 6-3 vs teams with losing records.  10-6  overall record.  Record vs playoff teams including any playoff games:  3-4 (2-3 vs AFC playoff teams). 

I say all were underachievements because we were ultimately forced to go on the road in the playoffs to the  12-4 Chiefs.  It’s always risky to go back and say what if with individual games but I will in this case because Frank’s decisions had direct impact on the outcome of two games. Those were the Texans and Jags games where Frank went for it and basically gifted the Texans a win and against the Jags where he refused to take the points multiple times in a 6-0 SHUTOUT  loss. 1 win and 1 tie and we’re the 2 seed at 11-4-1. That’s not even factoring the bad losses to the 4-12 Jets and 6-10 Bengals. Did that team really reach max potential?  

 

2019 (Jacoby as QB):  Record vs teams with winning records (8-8 or better):  3-4 (1 of those 3 against Mariota’s 9-7 Titans). 4-5 vs teams with losing records.  7-9 overall record.  Record vs playoff teams including any playoff games:  3-3 (3-2 vs AFC Playoff teams).  Win over a “hobbled” Mahomes (we’ll take it) and that Mariota win (not really that impressive since Tannehill lead Titans resurgence). 

Overall another underachieving year.  Why?  Missed the playoffs.  How many games did sticking with Vinny cost us?  Bad call starting Hoyer and letting him spray it all over the yard. Can’t even remember if there were more Frank bad judgment plays this particular season but the record speaks for itself. Bad losses to 5-11 Chargers & Dolphins. Also 6-10 Jags. Watched 9-7 Titans (not truly a better team than us imo) reach the AFC title game with Tannehill putting up pedestrian passing numbers along the way (72, 88, & 209 yards) basically using our Chiefs game blueprint. We couldn’t have done that with our OLine & Jacoby?  Did that team reach max potential?

 

2020 (Rivers as QB):  Record vs teams with winning records (8-8 or better):  4-4 (2 wins against 8-8 Bears & Raiders). 7-1 record vs teams with losing records (finally winning the games we should. But... We’ll come back to this later.). 11-5 overall record. Record vs playoff teams including any playoff games:  3-5 (1-5 vs AFC Playoff teams).  Great win over Rodgers and Packers. Win over Foles lead Bears not really impressive as Trubisky lead their resurgence). 

Overall another underachieving year.  Why?  Failure to beat any other AFC playoff participant on our schedule besides Titans once and being the only team to lose to the 1-15 Jags ultimately cost us the AFC South crown.  Only expanded playoffs got us in the dance.  Abandoning the running game in close games or games where we held 2nd half leads (Jags, Ravens, Steelers) had us settling for an 11-5 record and a road wild card game when this team easily had 14-2 or 13-3 potential vs the easiest schedule in the league.  In both our first and last games of the season (Jags loss just like in 2018 & Bills playoff loss), Frank doesn’t take the points and we ultimately end up getting stopped, ceding momentum, and losing close games at the end.  We became the first team in playoff history to get 450 plus yards, no turnovers, and lose.  We had 6 All Pros and that doesn’t include Smith, Moore, Hines, Houston, & Rhodes.  Did this team reach max potential?

 

Frank’s overall record vs winning teams (8-8 or better) is 11-11 in his 3 years.  17-9 vs teams with losing records.  9-12 vs all playoff teams. 6-10 vs AFC playoff teams.  These numbers say Frank is a .500 coach vs winning teams (includes two 8-8 teams) over his tenure. Numbers say Frank’s teams haven’t quite taken care of business vs teams that we should beat judging by our only .654 winning percentage vs teams with losing records. That number should be higher.  I just showed above that a game or 2 have cost us division titles, home field advantage, playoff berths and whatever other successes we potentially missed out on by not maximizing our chances. His .429 winning percentage vs all playoff teams is under .500 and his percentage vs only AFC playoff teams is even worse at .375.  
 

What about these numbers say Frank should be untouchable and we shouldn’t be looking deeper into whether we can upgrade at Head Coach?  Matt Nagy has the same overall record 28-20 (.583) as Frank over the past 3 years.  He didn’t have Luck & Rivers (2 HoF caliber QB’s). He had Trubisky & Foles.  Is Frank really a much better coach than Nagy if he’s better at all?  
 

And to tie this back in to the original topic of this thread.  Frank is 9-3 vs the NFC in his 3 years as our coach.  That’s a .750 overall winning percentage. 3-2 vs NFC teams with winning records (.600) and 6-1 vs NFC teams with losing records (.857).  Clearly better than any of his overall winning percentages with us or vs just vs AFC teams in similar circumstances. So why wouldn’t he be a great fit for the Eagles and why shouldn’t we be trying to get some draft capital from them as compensation for Frank’s services?  His game plans seem to work better vs NFC teams. I think it’s a win/win for both organizations. 

 

And to be fair...Nagy played a tougher schedule over the past 3 years. Recency bias rules in the NFL though.

 

Here are the Colts SOS by year:

 

DVOA: #32, #30, #32

ProFootballReference: #31, #25 (tied with 3 other teams), #32

 

The Colts are 28-20 (and 1-2 in the playoffs) during those three years. They were 10-6 in 2018 (Luck was the #9 QB in DVOA) and 11-5 this past season (Rivers was the #12 QB in DVOA). So it's not like the QB situation has been holding this team back...which seems to be the narrative of some tweets I have seen.

 

I don't see Reich going anywhere...but I don't know if it's crazy that they might look to make a change at some point if this team doesn't get it done. Of course who they choose to be the next QB will be a big part of that.

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

And to be fair...Nagy played a tougher schedule over the past 3 years. Recency bias rules in the NFL though.

 

Here are the Colts SOS by year:

 

DVOA: #32, #30, #32

ProFootballReference: #31, #25 (tied with 3 other teams), #32

 

The Colts are 28-20 (and 1-2 in the playoffs) during those three years. They were 10-6 in 2018 (Luck was the #9 QB in DVOA) and 11-5 this past season (Rivers was the #12 QB in DVOA). So it's not like the QB situation has been holding this team back...which seems to be the narrative of some tweets I have seen.

 

I don't see Reich going anywhere...but I don't know if it's crazy that they might look to make a change at some point if this team doesn't get it done. Of course who they choose to be the next QB will be a big part of that.

 

 

 

 

So it looks like we’re gonna need a QB capable of getting up to number 5 in DVOA or higher to overcome Frank’s coaching adjustments and decision making if we really want to win it all.  We have to look to the draft. Could Carr reach that level?  Stafford?  Ryan anymore?  Dak?  Jameis?  Darnold?  Wentz ever again?  Fields?  Wilson?  Lance?  Trask?  I list the younger guys because they can bring QB rushing yards. Making Taylor even more ferocious due to the read option ability. 

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10 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

So it looks like we’re gonna need a QB capable of getting up to number 5 in DVOA or higher to overcome Frank’s coaching adjustments and decision making if we really want to win it all.  We have to look to the draft. Could Carr reach that level?  Stafford?  Ryan anymore?  Dak?  Jameis?  Darnold?  Wentz ever again?  Fields?  Wilson?  Lance?  Trask?  I list the younger guys because they can bring QB rushing yards. Making Taylor even more ferocious due to the read option ability. 

 

Yeah...let me explain too...because I am in another thread talking about franchise QB being the most urgent need...because it is. And my comment re: Reich reads like I am saying the QB situation has been fine.

 

We just have to assume that Reich will still be here...so yes...I think he will need a consistent top 10 QB to reach this team's ceiling. But I also think that should be the goal anyways...to try to find a top 5 QB. 

 

But my point is that he hasn't really had to overcome bad QBing (outside of JB)...which is a narrative I have seen in some tweets talking about having 3 QBs in 3 years. Whether he is good enough to get a team over the hump absolutely remains to be seen.

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