Taylor Was Bad Today

[EastStreet]

12 hours ago, Nickster said:

Part of the inability to make them pay is a diminished TY.  Hes pro enough to be a guy but certainly isn’t good enough to be the guy.

 

His catch radius is minuscule.  The pass from PR downfield was masterful, and you need a guy to go up and high point that catch, not wait to cradle it over the shoulder.

 

TY has never been this type of WR, but he no longer gets as open as he used to.

 

I think a flaw in your analysis of Indy is not recognizing that we have no red zone type of guy. Almost   Every other team left does.  KC Kielce.  Bills Diggs.  NO Thomas.  TB everyone in the WR corps.  GB Adams.  LAR Krupp.

 

Cle had OBJ and are fringy IMo.  They were fortuneate Ben decided to play catch with them.

 

only exception is Balt and they have Jackson.  
 

we are weak at red zone receiving types with PRs immobility, it’s a challenge.

 

I think Reich does amazing things scheming guys open, but you are going to need someone who can just make a play.

Zero red zone guys? Sorry man, Pittman, MAC, and Doyle are, or I should say, should be, RZ guys. The problem was Frank not calling RZ plays to them.

 

Frank has deprioritized TE almost all year. We saw MAC have HUGE success in a few games, biggest being MN. We never saw those sail routes again. Why? And just in general, why no first read plays to TEs in the RZ (almost ever lol)... Luck in 2018 abused red zone Ds with Ebron all year. We saw what the TEs could do yesterday, but sadly, only calls to them between the 20s. 

 

Sorry man, Reich was simply bad Saturday. Very bad. "Amazing" is the farthest things he was. 10x worse than JT, 10x worse than Turay's OFs. Players always make mistakes. Frank made several egregious errors that coaches aren't supposed to make.

[King Colt]

5 hours ago, Nickster said:

Did he drop passes and miss blocks too?  If so, then he had a bad day.

 

 

Can't argue that but holster that pistol and save it for a more deserving target. The Colts are frequent participants in the playoffs so I and happy with it so afar and the future looks bright if the GM continues to smoothen the ride.

[Nickster]

15 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Zero red zone guys? Sorry man, Pittman, MAC, and Doyle are, or I should say, should be, RZ guys. The problem was Frank not calling RZ plays to them.

 

Frank has deprioritized TE almost all year. We saw MAC have HUGE success in a few games, biggest being MN. We never saw those sail routes again. Why? And just in general, why no first read plays to TEs in the RZ (almost ever lol)... Luck in 2018 abused red zone Ds with Ebron all year. We saw what the TEs could do yesterday, but sadly, only calls to them between the 20s. 

 

Sorry man, Reich was simply bad Saturday. Very bad. "Amazing" is the farthest things he was. 10x worse than JT, 10x worse than Turay's OFs. Players always make mistakes. Frank made several egregious errors that coaches aren't supposed to make.

 

Man East, if  you think we have any receiving talent comparable to Adams, Diggs, the TB All Star Team, Kelce, Kupp and Woods, then I really don't have anything else to say about that.  I mean I have no response to that.  I don't think that is what you are saying beccause I'd have to question your sanity, and you seem perfectly stable to me.

 

You say we underutilize our TEs but the numbers don't suggest this. Our tight ends caught 8TDs on 85 receptions for over 900 yds.  There are only a handful of teams with more production than the Colts for TEs.  Jack Doyle East?  He has 21 TDs in 8 seasons the first several of which were with Andrew Luck.  Red zone talent?  uhh OK.  Trey Burton?  He has 1500 yds total in a 7  year career with 15 Tds total.  Mo Cox is a very clunky route runner.  He really can't get himself open.  He can run past people sometimes on play action or those sail, post corner type or routes when he gets his big * moving, but this does not translate to red zone routes.  Ebron is far more talented as a receiver than these three dudes.  

 

TY even when he was a star/borderline superstarwas never a consistent RZ player.  His highest TD total is 7 for a season the beginning of which had the Colts throwing for prodigious TD numbers.

 

Pitt is a rookie.  I like him, but he is not remarkable at anything athletically.  He's big and might learn to shield in the RZ, but I don't  think he is ever expected to be on par with the guys I cited above as a TD maker in the RZ.  Average speed, vertical, quickness for WR.   Maybe, but certainly not his rookie year.  He should have caught that ball from Rivers.  He stayed too flat, but that is a rookie mistake.  Regardless, you'd like to have a player that can jump up and get that ball IMO.  And I really like this kid.

 

The ONLY player we have that creates mismatches consistently in the passing game is Hines, and he's an RB.  Plus, if we move on from Rivers, you can bank that the passing game to backs will diminish.  PR is great at it.

 

  We have NO ONE AT ALL that neccesitates a double team on a consistent basis.  We have a lot of guys who are decent, but no one who makes a D coordinator * down his leg.  

 

 

Well, just saw my Taylor jersey is in NY just coming over from China.  Should have it by the weekend and will be proudly wearing it and look forward to the future.

 

That being said JT was not good Sunday in any facet of the game and was a contributor to the loss with drops, missed blocking assignments, and unremarkable running.  Hines had as many yds on a less than third of his carries.

 

On Frank, I can't stand his decision making.  He reminds me of Belechik when he went for the forth and one against Peyton losing homefield that year.  It was an arrogant, bad play.

I think Frank does stuff like that.  He likes being unconventional. The going for it on 4th down and 4 was dumb.  I hated the move.  The XP didn't end up hurting us becasue of the 2 but I didn't like that either.  The TO situ was also mishandled IMO.

 

But I seperate this what I call DECISION MAKING from PLAY CALLING.

 

I think he's a masterful play caller, as far as getting alot out of what he's got out there.  To me there is a difference. 

[Nickster]

14 hours ago, King Colt said:

Can't argue that but holster that pistol and save it for a more deserving target. The Colts are frequent participants in the playoffs so I and happy with it so afar and the future looks bright if the GM continues to smoothen the ride.

Future looks bright only if we get the QB situation fixed.    I hope Rivers comes back next year.  If so, I really like our chances next year.

 

After that, if we don't hit at QB, the org is likely going to go the way of Houston.  We have a lot of talent that will be getting paid in couple of years. 

 

We are in win now mode with an old QB, who has never gotten it done in the post.  I think he's good enough for next year, and I think Sunday's game is really strong evidence of that.

[Breeze]

3 hours ago, Nickster said:

..............being said JT was not good Sunday in any facet of the game and was a contributor to the loss with drops, missed blocking assignments, and unremarkable running.  Hines had as many yds on a less than third of his carries.

 

On Frank, I can't stand his decision making.  He reminds me of Belechik when he went for the forth and one against Peyton losing homefield that year.  It was an arrogant, bad play.

I think Frank does stuff like that.  He likes being unconventional. The going for it on 4th down and 4 was dumb.  I hated the move.  The XP didn't end up hurting us becasue of the 2 but I didn't like that either.  The TO situ was also mishandled IMO.

 

But I seperate this what I call DECISION MAKING from PLAY CALLING.

 

I think he's a masterful play caller, as far as getting alot out of what he's got out there.  To me there is a difference. 

About JT, yep not his best effort, but still admirable, and certainly a bright future considering he was still very productive with it not being his best effort.  I had to laugh when I saw this thread as I’m suspicious that this was more about an annoying little brother trying to get a reaction from the forum....and it worked!

As for Frank, I’ve seen the word arrogance thrown around here a lot.  I don’t see that at all.  Taking those risks is certainly his MO, but I think it’s about trusting his team and knowing what they’re capable of.  In hindsight, I also say take the points, but I’m a very good hindsight coach.  I always call the right play after the fact!  No way of knowing the alternative...for all we know, Buffalo might have gone all ‘Bama on us had we kicked the FG.  TBH, the play call was great, would’ve worked if executed better, and we’d all be calling Frank a genius decision maker.  He’ll continue to learn, but as is, I think he already wins way more reps than he loses. 

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, Breeze said:

About JT, yep not his best effort, but still admirable, and certainly a bright future considering he was still very productive with it not being his best effort.  I had to laugh when I saw this thread as I’m suspicious that this was more about an annoying little brother trying to get a reaction from the forum....and it worked!

As for Frank, I’ve seen the word arrogance thrown around here a lot.  I don’t see that at all.  Taking those risks is certainly his MO, but I think it’s about trusting his team and knowing what they’re capable of.  In hindsight, I also say take the points, but I’m a very good hindsight coach.  I always call the right play after the fact!  No way of knowing the alternative...for all we know, Buffalo might have gone all ‘Bama on us had we kicked the FG.  TBH, the play call was great, would’ve worked if executed better, and we’d all be calling Frank a genius decision maker.  He’ll continue to learn, but as is, I think he already wins way more reps than he loses. 

Well sortof little brother yeah.  But there is a lot of blame going around the forum with Frank, PR, TY, Rodrigo,

and I was a big sceptic, and I wanted to see what the reaction would be.  I think it's pretty evident that JT had a subpar game and was a contirbutor to the loss and wanted to see what others thought.

 

I think Frank is very stubborn with some of his decisions.  I think he's a masterful playcaller. 

 

 

[King Colt]

Strong rookie RBs typically get stronger after their first year. If that holds true with Taylor look out world!

[Nickster]

3 hours ago, King Colt said:

Strong rookie RBs typically get stronger after their first year. If that holds true with Taylor look out world!

Oh I’m all in on the kids future.

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

Man East, if  you think we have any receiving talent comparable to Adams, Diggs, the TB All Star Team, Kelce, Kupp and Woods, then I really don't have anything else to say about that.  I mean I have no response to that.  I don't think that is what you are saying beccause I'd have to question your sanity, and you seem perfectly stable to me.

 

You say we underutilize our TEs but the numbers don't suggest this. Our tight ends caught 8TDs on 85 receptions for over 900 yds.  There are only a handful of teams with more production than the Colts for TEs.  Jack Doyle East?  He has 21 TDs in 8 seasons the first several of which were with Andrew Luck.  Red zone talent?  uhh OK.  Trey Burton?  He has 1500 yds total in a 7  year career with 15 Tds total.  Mo Cox is a very clunky route runner.  He really can't get himself open.  He can run past people sometimes on play action or those sail, post corner type or routes when he gets his big * moving, but this does not translate to red zone routes.  Ebron is far more talented as a receiver than these three dudes.  

 

TY even when he was a star/borderline superstarwas never a consistent RZ player.  His highest TD total is 7 for a season the beginning of which had the Colts throwing for prodigious TD numbers.

 

Pitt is a rookie.  I like him, but he is not remarkable at anything athletically.  He's big and might learn to shield in the RZ, but I don't  think he is ever expected to be on par with the guys I cited above as a TD maker in the RZ.  Average speed, vertical, quickness for WR.   Maybe, but certainly not his rookie year.  He should have caught that ball from Rivers.  He stayed too flat, but that is a rookie mistake.  Regardless, you'd like to have a player that can jump up and get that ball IMO.  And I really like this kid.

 

The ONLY player we have that creates mismatches consistently in the passing game is Hines, and he's an RB.  Plus, if we move on from Rivers, you can bank that the passing game to backs will diminish.  PR is great at it.

 

  We have NO ONE AT ALL that neccesitates a double team on a consistent basis.  We have a lot of guys who are decent, but no one who makes a D coordinator * down his leg.  

 

 

Well, just saw my Taylor jersey is in NY just coming over from China.  Should have it by the weekend and will be proudly wearing it and look forward to the future.

 

That being said JT was not good Sunday in any facet of the game and was a contributor to the loss with drops, missed blocking assignments, and unremarkable running.  Hines had as many yds on a less than third of his carries.

 

On Frank, I can't stand his decision making.  He reminds me of Belechik when he went for the forth and one against Peyton losing homefield that year.  It was an arrogant, bad play.

I think Frank does stuff like that.  He likes being unconventional. The going for it on 4th down and 4 was dumb.  I hated the move.  The XP didn't end up hurting us becasue of the 2 but I didn't like that either.  The TO situ was also mishandled IMO.

 

But I seperate this what I call DECISION MAKING from PLAY CALLING.

 

I think he's a masterful play caller, as far as getting alot out of what he's got out there.  To me there is a difference. 

 

First of all, why are you deflecting and suggesting I'm saying we have comparable WR talent? My points were we deprioritized TE this year, and Frank was bad...

 

So, if you can keep on topic, here's data about Colts TEs this year. 

• We had zero TEs in the top 25 of TE targets this year.
• Burton, who is really a hybrid HB/Slot, and not near a prototypical TE at 6-2 (if he's even 6-2) got the most targets and ranked 27th among TEs in targets.
• MAC, who graded out most of the year as one of the top TEs in the NFL, was 35th in TE targets.
• Doyle, who has been Mr. Reliable, was resigned to a multi year deal, and is 41st in TE targets.....
• As far as RZ targets, which is one of my primary points, in 2018, Ebron led all IND pass catchers with 22 RZ targets.
• In 2019, we had 2 TEs in the top 3 (for IND) in RZ targets. Doyle was 1st, and Ebron was 2nd. Pascal, who was playing X (semi-big, and playing X only out of necessity ) was 2nd. So 3 bigs were top 3 in RZ targets....
• In 2020, our top 3 in RZ targets were Pascal (not even playing an X or true big), Hines who is 5-9, and and TY at 5-10. 4th was Burton at 6-2, who's not even a prototypical TE.... NOT ONE SINGLE true TE in the top 4 in RZ targets.

 

So there's the data on de-prioritization of TE this you in general, and in the RZ... 

 

Crystal clear...