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Without a Franchise QB - The window is Closing for the Colts


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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I could live with Stafford, I do think he is good.

He's really good.  Better than most think.  He's played behind a cruddy team and his best WR retired like 3 years ago.  Get that man some talent and a defense behind him and I believe youd see this team make a deep run.  Superbowl?  IDK but they could be knocking some teams out I believe.  Have no idea what the cost would be though.

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Sarcasm on:   Too bad we don't have a young, mobile, dynamic QB like Lamar Jackson. I mean his stats against the Bills were.......   14/24 for 162 yds, 0 TD's and 1 INT  

With the first pick, the Jacksonville Jaguars select - Trevor Lawrence... we all know that, and what he's supposed to bring to that team. We also know that Deshaun Watson will stay put in Houston

Rivers gets the blame when he doesn’t complete a comeback with zero timeouts, but he never gets credit for keeping the team in the game to begin with. It’s because of him that we even had a chance at

But Rivers did go toe to toe with the best in the AFC and let’s not forget he beat Rodgers too. We all know he isn’t the long term answer. But until we find the future we are good with him.  If we do draft the future this year even in the first round he needs to come back. I imagine they will look into the Wentz situation and talk with the eagles. I really doubt though they would go after Stafford unless rivers retires on his own. They don’t dump him for Stafford.

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

But Rivers did go toe to toe with the best in the AFC and let’s not forget he beat Rodgers too. We all know he isn’t the long term answer. But until we find the future we are good with him.  If we do draft the future this year even in the first round he needs to come back. I imagine they will look into the Wentz situation and talk with the eagles. I really doubt though they would go after Stafford unless rivers retires on his own. They don’t dump him for Stafford.

I would in a speed of light second.  Or would that be longer?  IDK.......in any case I'd dump Rivers for Stafford, like NOW.

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I don’t know if the window is closing, but I can tell you it’s very hard to win a SB without a franchise QB. The Ravens won two with Dilfer and Flacco , but how many could they have won with a franchise QB ? 
I guess you build the strongest D you can, and get a game manager in there. I think Rivers was a reasonable solution , but it ended up much like the Ravens with Steve McNair. 
You guys were very fortunate with Manning and Luck. We had to watch Vinnie Testeverde , Stoney Case, Tony Banks, Kyle Boller, and a host of other stiffs. Not an easy solution, but you never know where you find the right QB for a team with most of the ingredients. 

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1 hour ago, pacolts56 said:

No question Watson is plenty fed up with the dysfunction in Houston.
 

But do you think Houston would even fathom a trade to the Colts.... or that Ballard would ever consider the price tag for such a deal?

 

Can and will a trade happen? It’s a distinct possibility for sure.... just not to the Colts.

 

 

Oh I know 

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I think it’s obvious that you can’t win a Super Bowl with Rivers. I know people love Stafford, but is he Mahomes, Allen, Wilson, Prescott, etc...? Idk. He’s younger than Rivers and doesn’t overthrow receivers as much, but he’s also limited athletically. He’d be an upgrade, but IDK if he’s a game changer for us at the QB position.

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6 hours ago, ThorstenDenmark said:

With the first pick, the Jacksonville Jaguars select - Trevor Lawrence... we all know that, and what he's supposed to bring to that team.

We also know that Deshaun Watson will stay put in Houston, and that Tennessee is a well coached team, which bring us to our Colts.

 

Right now, as of today, we don't have any starting QB, as Rivers is a free agent and even if he returns for another year, we can't expect much better from him than what we got this season.

We also know he needs offseason surgery and that he will turn 40 in december.

Im not the biggest Rivers fan, but he's good enough to get us to the playoffs, but then it's game over like last night :( We had a fair chance, but we just fell short in so many ways, that its head scratching and you shout argh come on guys.

 

If we should have had a run with Rivers in the playoffs, THIS WAS THE YEAR.

 

The Colts have a lot of pieces in place, which we saw this season, but we are one or two players and plays away from being there, and now, instead of reaching the top of the mountain, I can see this team regress, if Ballard choose to bring back Rivers for one last dance.

 

This offseason might be the single most important since drafting Andrew Luck, as Ballard needs to choose our starting QB for the 2021 season with care. 

 

I see three possible scenarios for us this offseason, that have very different outcome going forward for this team.

 

1.

They bring back Rivers, and due to a much tougher schedule next season compared to this year, we are stuck in the middle with a record in the range of 6-10 / 8-8 and no playoff. 

Which give us a draft pick just outside the top 10 in 2022, based on this years record and draft order.

 

2. 

We let Rivers walk and Ballard / Colts sign either Dak Prescott, Carson Wentz or Sam Darnold. All three QB´s with upside compared to Rivers as they are younger and in the right circumstances can be successful behind our O-line and take this team to the next level going forward. I know Dak might be franchised tagged once again by Dallas and Darnold have yet to show how good he can be, but behind our O-line and in Reichs system, I see him develop and become better. Wentz will likely cost some draft picks, but Reich know how to get the best out of him.

 

With one of these QB´s I see us having a much better chance next season and going forward, than by keeping Rivers, and though we next season might fall short of the playoffs, we could compete in the AFC South for years to come.

 

3.

We draft a young QB in the first round, possibly by trading up in the draft for Mac Jones, Kyle Trask or Trey Lance, and we are settled for the future and bring in some complementary pieces to help this young QB succeed. 

We would have cap enough to sign big Q and Leonard come 2022, and still have room to sign free agents that could elevate this team and give us a fair chance for success going forward in a QB heavy AFC South.

 

So, this offseason is darn important for Ballard and he needs to get it right, as we are so close to getting there, but Rivers ain't the answer, at least I don't think he is the one that can take this team to the next level.

 

 

I think there’s the additional scenario that we roll with Eason and look for a better draft pick in 2022. I don’t think Ballard does this.
 

I think we re-sign Rivers and go 8-8 next year. I think it will be telling what we do in regards to the level of trust Ballard has in Reich. Reich obviously is all in on Rivers train. 

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9 minutes ago, Dasteez said:

I think there’s the additional scenario that we roll with Eason and look for a better draft pick in 2022. I don’t think Ballard does this.
 

I think we re-sign Rivers and go 8-8 next year. I think it will be telling what we do in regards to the level of trust Ballard has in Reich. Reich obviously is all in on Rivers train. 

I agree except we’ll be better than 8-8.  We were supposed to be 7-9 or 8-8 this year, but were a couple brain farts from being 13-3 or even 14-2.  Another year of maturity for both the roster and coaches....I think Rivers/Eason can get us at least another 11 wins.

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The only pathway I see to being a true SB contender with Rivers at this stage in his career is to field a truly elite defense similar to what the Broncos had with Manning in his last season.  Obviously, Rivers has more left than Peyton had at that time, but I feel that would allow us to play more to our strengths offensively.   

 

The problem is that it is easier said than done to build an elite defense and, frankly, with the way pass interference, holding, QB protection is called these days, I don't know if it really possible anymore.  

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Ballard has a very delicate balance he has to negotiate here. You don’t want to take a step back from this year. You want to get better. So whatever decision they make is crucial. Starting a rookie or Eason would most likely mean a step back for at least a year. 

 

I dont want Wentz because I think he is broken. They would be silly though not to look into it. He is 28 with a history with Reich. If they feel they can fix him or our team is just much better then the eagles they have to look at that as a option.  Is he a leader. I am going to go watch some video from him in 2018 today. See if I change my opinion on him.

 

Stafford only makes sense if rivers retires on his own. 

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5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Ballard has a very delicate balance he has to negotiate here. You don’t want to take a step back from this year. You want to get better. So whatever decision they make is crucial. Starting a rookie or Eason would most likely mean a step back for at least a year. 

 

I dont want Wentz because I think he is broken. They would be silly though not to look into it. He is 28 with a history with Reich. If they feel they can fix him or our team is just much better then the eagles they have to look at that as a option.  Is he a leader. I am going to go watch some video from him in 2018 today. See if I change my opinion on him.

 

Stafford only makes sense if rivers retires on his own. 

If the go for Wentz, they need to restructure his contract, because its massive and we cant afford to pay him that much. 

 

I mentioned wentz in my post, due to the rumors about him and the colts, but I really don't hope they go for him. Since his injury he hasn't been as good as pre injury and did Ballard and the Colts sign him, they'd better be sure he can play like he's paid. 

 

I look forward to Ballards presser tomorrow morning, or when it will be held, as there will be some questions answered, that a lot of colts fans have right now.

 

I know he wont go into details that much, but he always give us a little bone or hint about the direction after the season.

 

Dream scenario would be that Luck returned... ;)

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6 hours ago, DoubleE Colt said:

I don't overly get this worry about our schedule next season yet....a lot can happen to all teams but even if we take things as equal for this season then the Jags are more away than Trevor Lawrence from competing, the Texans are a mess at the moment with loads of holes to fill and the Titans are the same level as us but have also to play the Steelers, the Chiefs and probably the Saints next season that we don't. As the NFC East shows you only have to beat 3 others teams by season end to reach the play offs. I understand getting to the play offs is a long way from competing for a Superbowl but look at it this way even if you believe Rivers is just average we've shown we can compete with the best with an average QB.  Personally I'm not sold on Darnold and Wentz and Wentz will cost an arm and a leg unless something is worked out with his contract. Dax will just get tagged again I assume. The only QB I'd go all in for is Stafford if I'm honest, he could be awesome behind our online. 


I don’t really think Rivers played average.  I think a lot of people jump to that because of stats.  His TD weren’t that high, but we also had a well balanced team and a D that wasn’t giving up an insane amount of points.  I think had the D been garbage this year and Colts had to rely on Rivers, we’d see a lot more TD.
 

I think COVID also really stunted the offense early on.  With the injuries, we had JT and Pittman out there with no camp or preseason.  I feel the Cincy game is when things started clicking.  And if you avg Rivers stats since the Cincy game you’re looking at 29 TD and 9 INT for a full 16 games of the offense playing how it did. 
 

I think if the team can somehow miraculously get Dak or Watson(highly unlikely), then move on.  But I think the team is still capable of winning a SB under Rivers.   The biggest hole in the team this year was play calling.  That can be easily fixed.  

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The players are doing exit interviews with the press today. It’s clear they love rivers. All they are talking about is his leadership. 

 

This is why Ballard says you always have to do detail work with every QB even when your not in the market for one. They will be able to go back and look at their scouting reports on guys like Darnold if he becomes available. Reich clearly has a good history with Wentz so that wouldn’t be hard. But can Reich have clear vision on him.

 

We have anywhere from 60 to 65 million in cap space. Maybe this has to be a season where you take the lumps with a rookie because that space will be gone quick by bringing rivers back or going after Wentz.

 

Anyone know what Wentz completion percentage was in 2018. Also Pederson might get fired. Rumors are he might not be brought back.

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heres what we need to do to be a contender next year.   bring rivers back on a discount bring back all our players except walker hilton .  get a veteran wr and put ej speed in the starting lineup .   then draft a corner pass rusher tackle and a wr in the first 4 rounds .   If we have a good draft and get a upgrade over ty  with cambell and mack back next year we are a better team .

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43 minutes ago, SpanosSucks said:


I don’t really think Rivers played average.  I think a lot of people jump to that because of stats.  His TD weren’t that high, but we also had a well balanced team and a D that wasn’t giving up an insane amount of points.  I think had the D been garbage this year and Colts had to rely on Rivers, we’d see a lot more TD.
 

I think COVID also really stunted the offense early on.  With the injuries, we had JT and Pittman out there with no camp or preseason.  I feel the Cincy game is when things started clicking.  And if you avg Rivers stats since the Cincy game you’re looking at 29 TD and 9 INT for a full 16 games of the offense playing how it did. 
 

I think if the team can somehow miraculously get Dak or Watson(highly unlikely), then move on.  But I think the team is still capable of winning a SB under Rivers.   The biggest hole in the team this year was play calling.  That can be easily fixed.  

Leadership is great but if that’s all it took then Watt would have a championship too. This offense is limited at QB and speed at TE

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3 hours ago, coming on strong said:

darnold and wentz value is super low right now , colts could get either of them for a late pick

Says you.   
 

That’s not what I’m reading anywhere as of today. 

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I think one mistake often made is assuming picking a QB in the first round immediately gives us a franchise QB and we are set.  I would say look over the last ten years of QBs drafted in the first round and you will see at least half of them are busts or underachieving.  I still remember last year hearing so many people on here screaming for Jordan Love.  Last I heard, he was the scout team QB on the Packers and terrible inaccurate.  I am not suggesting we won't try to pick a QB in the first, but I think we have about as much chance of that QB working out as Jacob Eason.  I like Wilson and Trask.  Certainly, Lawrence would be preferred but no way to get him.

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29 minutes ago, lennymoore24 said:

I think one mistake often made is assuming picking a QB in the first round immediately gives us a franchise QB and we are set.  I would say look over the last ten years of QBs drafted in the first round and you will see at least half of them are busts or underachieving.  I still remember last year hearing so many people on here screaming for Jordan Love.  Last I heard, he was the scout team QB on the Packers and terrible inaccurate.  I am not suggesting we won't try to pick a QB in the first, but I think we have about as much chance of that QB working out as Jacob Eason.  I like Wilson and Trask.  Certainly, Lawrence would be preferred but no way to get him.

Easons study habits are garbage and have been since college. I wont bet on a young QB who do not put in the effort to learn a playbook. 

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27 minutes ago, lennymoore24 said:

I think one mistake often made is assuming picking a QB in the first round immediately gives us a franchise QB and we are set.  I would say look over the last ten years of QBs drafted in the first round and you will see at least half of them are busts or underachieving.  I still remember last year hearing so many people on here screaming for Jordan Love.  Last I heard, he was the scout team QB on the Packers and terrible inaccurate.  I am not suggesting we won't try to pick a QB in the first, but I think we have about as much chance of that QB working out as Jacob Eason.  I like Wilson and Trask.  Certainly, Lawrence would be preferred but no way to get him.

That's kind of why I'm always miffed reading about getting that franchise QB in the first round every year. If it was that easy every team would have one. That franchise QB has to actually be in the draft, he doesn't become one just because he's drafted high.

I'd love someone to bet their job/livelihood on a QB pick because that's what an entire regime has to do.

 

And just a side note, on what planet would a divisional rival give you their franchise qb for 2/3/4 1st rd picks in the 20's? Makes no logical sense. That argument is fantasy talk.

 

 

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8 hours ago, IanColts22 said:

We have to put in a Franchise QB next season.  I’m not sure how many 1st round picks and 3 round picks we need to trade to get in position to get Justin Fields.  I want us to have a duel threat QB.   I don’t like Colts trying to bring Rivers back he can get us into playoff again and maybe even advance to 2 round of playoffs but that’s it.  I’m not a big fan of Darnold, Stafford, Wentz etc....  I doubt this will happen but maybe Ballard reaches out to the Packers?  Aaron Rodgers is still crazy elite good so he will still be playing for a lot longer then what people are speculating.  So just maybe we get Jordan Love?  But yeah this is a pipe dream but I wouldn’t mind getting Aaron Rodgers since he didn’t like the Packers for drafting Love and already looking for his replacement.

Honestly after u look at all the qbs u listed and considered how they impact every teams salaries and cap hit. I c Stafford as the only logical choice.

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12 minutes ago, ThorstenDenmark said:

Easons study habits are garbage and have been since college. I wont bet on a young QB who do not put in the effort to learn a playbook. 

Do you have a source for this? I seriously have not heard this before and have been real curious about his progress.

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4 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I agree with much of your post.

Depending on how Ballard addresses the most important and most difficult position in sports to hit on, our 2020 season might have been the best season we'll see in a while.

As we seen yesterday,  we were at a major disadvantage on the field when came to Rivers vs Allen. That's the way it will be going forward if we dont get a top QB. 

 

The 2 most important people on the field are the QB and the HC. And going forward,  we're lacking in both.

Actually Rivers out playes Allen. It came down to drops.

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5 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I could live with Stafford, I do think he is good.

I agree.  Stafford probably tops the list of who I think could be available and keep us in legitimate contention.

 

Watson is never going to be traded in the division no matter how disgruntled he is.

 

I dont see Ballard selling the farm to move up given our other needs but I think he HAS to bring stability to the position this year.  His legacy depends on it.

 

Dont forget we probably need a stud LT this year as well as an edge rusher and maybe a corner......2021 is a tall order.

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I respect what Rivers has done. However, he is extremely limited in what he can do when the play breaks down. He cannot move in the pocket, feet set in concrete, and limited arm strength. I think that is why the team struggles in thr red zone. The way the team is currently constructed, I dont see them winning a superbowl. They need to address the qb situation for the next 5 years. They need a #1 receiver. They need a man corner. I think they can get bye one more year with their current crop of Dlinemen. Sign Vandeer as he has looked good.

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7 minutes ago, Sumo63 said:

I agree.  Stafford probably tops the list of who I think could be available and keep us in legitimate contention.

 

Watson is never going to be traded in the division no matter how disgruntled he is.

 

I dont see Ballard selling the farm to move up given our other needs but I think he HAS to bring stability to the position this year.  His legacy depends on it.

 

Dont forget we probably need a stud LT this year as well as an edge rusher and maybe a corner......2021 is a tall order.

I know I will get hammered. We have some guys coming due such as Nelson, Leonard and Smith. Would u use them as capital in a trade for a veteran or college qb?

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4 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I know I will get hammered. We have some guys coming due such as Nelson, Leonard and Smith. Would u use them as capital in a trade for a veteran or college qb?

Probably not.  If we have an identity it starts with the o line, and Leonard is just special, beyond his physical abilities.

 

We lost a franchise QB and a decade or more of sb contention bc we couldnt protect him.  I'd hate to be in that position again.....

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

The players are doing exit interviews with the press today. It’s clear they love rivers. All they are talking about is his leadership. 

 

This is why Ballard says you always have to do detail work with every QB even when your not in the market for one. They will be able to go back and look at their scouting reports on guys like Darnold if he becomes available. Reich clearly has a good history with Wentz so that wouldn’t be hard. But can Reich have clear vision on him.

 

We have anywhere from 60 to 65 million in cap space. Maybe this has to be a season where you take the lumps with a rookie because that space will be gone quick by bringing rivers back or going after Wentz.

 

Anyone know what Wentz completion percentage was in 2018. Also Pederson might get fired. Rumors are he might not be brought back.

Which probably means they are choosing Wentz over Pederson.

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The only veteran that might be available that makes perfect sense is Stafford.  You can forget about the Dak's and Watsons of the world.  And this franchise is too strong to risk putting it in the hands of a rookie or Eason.  If Rivers wants to come back there is a strong chance they will do it. Not my 1st choice.  If so I would hope he might take less money to help Ballard with FA.  If he does come back then I think we should trade for Darnold and secure the QB position with an affordable veteran with big upside that could take over if Rivers should struggle next year and still keep us as a contender.  He would hopefully be ready to take over the following year. This way the window still stays open with a veteran who still has big upside.  For me the 1st choice is still Stafford. 

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7 hours ago, Patrick Miller said:

What is Jacob Eason? chopped liver? I wonder if this guy has a chance to start?


Look at how they handled him this season. Couldn’t make a game day roster. Frank loves to get cute, why not play 3 QBs in a game? Send Eason in to run a running play, or even try a safe little bootleg play with him... something to dip his toes in the water and get him his first looks at live game action in a low-pressure setting where he can really learn from the experience. 
 

I believe they want Eason as the long-term backup. A guy who builds his value by knowing the system at least nearly as good if not just as good as the starter so that if something ever goes wrong and we need him we don’t feel like we’re putting a guy out there who just shouldn’t be. Make him a fresh set of eyes for the starter to go over the coverages with on the sidelines between drives, he’ll help out by being able to play well enough in practice that it should help make the defense better in turn. I don’t think Ballard wants to keep signing vets and former starters as the backup every couple years. He wants to build a well oiled machine made with parts built specifically to fit at every position. 

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2 hours ago, coltsfansince65 said:

Do you have a source for this? I seriously have not heard this before and have been real curious about his progress.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-football/jacob-eason-is-still-waiting-for-his-name-to-be-called-in-the-nfl-draft-did-he-make-a-mistake-by-leaving-uw-early/

 

Read this article about his study habits or lack thereof.

 

Habits are some of the hardest things in life to change, and if you dont learn how to study and make it a part of your routines, then its a steep uphill battle if you have to learn it when going pro. 

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1 hour ago, ThorstenDenmark said:

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-football/jacob-eason-is-still-waiting-for-his-name-to-be-called-in-the-nfl-draft-did-he-make-a-mistake-by-leaving-uw-early/

 

Read this article about his study habits or lack thereof.

 

Habits are some of the hardest things in life to change, and if you dont learn how to study and make it a part of your routines, then its a steep uphill battle if you have to learn it when going pro. 

Thank you for the link. I had not heard anybody bring any of that up before. I hope this kind of scathing review motivates him to push himself to reach his projected potential. If the Colts staff finds him not maturing beyond this stage I hope they can cut bait and move on.

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Long time viewer of this forum but this is my first ever post. I appreciate all of the great content from everyone over the years! I’m a longtime time colts fan from Canada! 
 

I know it’s a pipe dream.. but if Rivers retires there would never be a better time for Luck to come back this upcoming season ;)

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27 minutes ago, coltsfansince65 said:

Thank you for the link. I had not heard anybody bring any of that up before. I hope this kind of scathing review motivates him to push himself to reach his projected potential. If the Colts staff finds him not maturing beyond this stage I hope they can cut bait and move on.

He has already talked about this. He admits he was immature young kid and has grown. With rivers he had a good mentor on what it takes and everyone in the organization has said he has done everything right. 

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42 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He has already talked about this. He admits he was immature young kid and has grown. With rivers he had a good mentor on what it takes and everyone in the organization has said he has done everything right. 

Yeah he knows he had to do things different, and its good Rivers could teach him a thing or two. 

But as we know Brissett won't be there next year, unless they give him the starting job, which he won't get, as Reich has been very strong about his trust and belief in Rivers.

Eason have no experience in the NFL at all, or he only has limited practice and have sat behind Rivers and Brissett for a year, so its a huge risk to only have him as a backup for Rivers.

 

I hope they reach out to the jets for Darnold, as he's very cheap (last year of rookie deal) and why not, if Rivers retire, give him a chance at lets see how manage things behind our O-line.

 

Another possibility could be to get Trubisky and give him a one year prove it deal, if he's let go from the Bears.

 

 

 

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The problem with Eason is that you have to wonder how much work he really got in terms of live practice reps, etc. this year with the virtual minicamps, limited training camps this past offseason.  Therefore, the coaching staff does not still have a real feel on him yet.  Gotta figure due to COVID that has probably been a throw away year for him and the traditional development starts this upcoming offseason for him which is why it is probably highly, highly unlikely the team would consider starting him in 2021.  

 

The article linked by ThorstenDenmark above seems to indicate to me that Ballard took a low risk flier on him to see if he could improve on his decencies over the course of 2-3 years and possibly realize his potential.   

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13 minutes ago, ThorstenDenmark said:

Yeah he knows he had to do things different, and its good Rivers could teach him a thing or two. 

But as we know Brissett won't be there next year, unless they give him the starting job, which he won't get, as Reich has been very strong about his trust and belief in Rivers.

Eason have no experience in the NFL at all, or he only has limited practice and have sat behind Rivers and Brissett for a year, so its a huge risk to only have him as a backup for Rivers.

 

I hope they reach out to the jets for Darnold, as he's very cheap (last year of rookie deal) and why not, if Rivers retire, give him a chance at lets see how manage things behind our O-line.

 

Another possibility could be to get Trubisky and give him a one year prove it deal, if he's let go from the Bears.

 

 

 

This is why if they think Eason can be the furure they need to bring rivers back for a year. We just don’t have enough info Eason. 

 

Hopefully there will be OTA this year so he gets more work in. 

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I have seen lots of QBs mentioned but I think one has been left out. Former MVP and Super Bowl QB Cam Newton. He has shown his arm is strong and he can still run the ball too. The Pats didn't have much in the way of receivers for him and they had a whole bunch of players sit out the season. I saw Cam play very well in some games and show rust in others but I think the great player is still there and the Colts would be fixed at QB for the next Decade and the price wouldn't be great. If Eason comes along, you can move Newton later.

 

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