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(4) Colts make All-Pro 1st team (2) Colts make All-Pro 2nd team


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15 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

I think Braden Smith deserved it as well. Good for Odom as well. 

I thought Braden would be the 4th guy instead of Odum before clicking on the thread. Got the other three right. Odum was a sneaky all-pro. Congrats to all of these guys though!

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6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I thought Braden would be the 4th guy instead of Odum before clicking on the thread. Got the other three right. Odum was a sneaky all-pro. Congrats to all of these guys though!

Yeah same here. 

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2 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Our ST's rock!

Isn’t that funny after everyone wanted Bubba fired after last season. One thing I like about this organization is they don’t make knee jerk moves.

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  • w87r changed the title to (4) Colts make All-Pro 1st team (2) Colts make All-Pro 2nd team

Congrats to all of them. Few of us can appreciate what these dudes have put their bodies and minds through to reach this level. I know I certainly can't. They deserve every honor they get.

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49 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

@Moosejawcolt I thought you said Nelson was having only an average year and leonard was having a down season

 

Compared to the standards those two set for themselves, @Moosejawcoltis probably right.  

 

Nelson and the whole OL looked a bit off early in the season.  The last quarter of the season, they turned things around -- some of that could have been on JT's progress, as well.  Nelson was also battling a few nagging injuries early in the year, I think.  He had a great season, but I think he was better last year.

 

Leonard led the league with 163 tackles as a rookie to go along with 7 sacks, 8 PD, 2 INT, 4 FF (in 15 games).  In 2019 he had 121 tackles, with 5 sacks, 7 PD, 5 INT and 2 FF (in 13 games).  In 2020, he had 132 tackles, 3 sacks, 7PD, 0 INT, 3 FF (in 14 games).  So, Leonard also had a great year, but stats wise it was sort of a 'down year' for the standards he set for himself in years 1 and 2.  (Aside - Leonard led the league in tackles as a rookie, he was 9th this year with less turnovers created than either of his previous 2 years).  Personally, I think Leonard's name this year helped him to the probowl and to first team all pro... and just statistic-wise there are several guys who could easily have had a case to be above him... https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/view/defense/season/2020/seasontype/2/table/defensive/sort/totalTackles/dir/desc

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Compared to the standards those two set for themselves, @Moosejawcoltis probably right.  

 

Nelson and the whole OL looked a bit off early in the season.  The last quarter of the season, they turned things around -- some of that could have been on JT's progress, as well.  Nelson was also battling a few nagging injuries early in the year, I think.  He had a great season, but I think he was better last year.

 

Leonard led the league with 163 tackles as a rookie to go along with 7 sacks, 8 PD, 2 INT, 4 FF (in 15 games).  In 2019 he had 121 tackles, with 5 sacks, 7 PD, 5 INT and 2 FF (in 13 games).  In 2020, he had 132 tackles, 3 sacks, 7PD, 0 INT, 3 FF (in 14 games).  So, Leonard also had a great year, but stats wise it was sort of a 'down year' for the standards he set for himself in years 1 and 2.  (Aside - Leonard led the league in tackles as a rookie, he was 9th this year with less turnovers created than either of his previous 2 years).  Personally, I think Leonard's name this year helped him to the probowl and to first team all pro... and just statistic-wise there are several guys who could easily have had a case to be above him... https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/view/defense/season/2020/seasontype/2/table/defensive/sort/totalTackles/dir/desc

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't feel like DL has had a All-Pro type of season.  But I don't focus on any other Wills, so maybe so.

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2 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Compared to the standards those two set for themselves, @Moosejawcoltis probably right.  

 

Nelson and the whole OL looked a bit off early in the season.  The last quarter of the season, they turned things around -- some of that could have been on JT's progress, as well.  Nelson was also battling a few nagging injuries early in the year, I think.  He had a great season, but I think he was better last year.

 

Leonard led the league with 163 tackles as a rookie to go along with 7 sacks, 8 PD, 2 INT, 4 FF (in 15 games).  In 2019 he had 121 tackles, with 5 sacks, 7 PD, 5 INT and 2 FF (in 13 games).  In 2020, he had 132 tackles, 3 sacks, 7PD, 0 INT, 3 FF (in 14 games).  So, Leonard also had a great year, but stats wise it was sort of a 'down year' for the standards he set for himself in years 1 and 2.  (Aside - Leonard led the league in tackles as a rookie, he was 9th this year with less turnovers created than either of his previous 2 years).  Personally, I think Leonard's name this year helped him to the probowl and to first team all pro... and just statistic-wise there are several guys who could easily have had a case to be above him... https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/view/defense/season/2020/seasontype/2/table/defensive/sort/totalTackles/dir/desc

 

 

 

 

Fact is,  they are both All Pro and far from average 

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Super happy Buckner and Odom got the recognition they deserved. I just wish Kenny Moore was more appreciated as well league wide. 

 

I do feel Big Q and Leonard will be All Pro regulars for the most part. Ryan Kelly was well deserved as well. 

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7 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

I just wish Kenny Moore was more appreciated as well league wide. 

And slot corners, in general. They play a much bigger role in today's NFL than in the past.

 

 

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1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

I think Braden Smith deserved it as well. Good for Odom as well. 

 

I believe and hope Braden's time will come being recognized as an All Pro RT in this league. He is one of the better ones out there and just keeps getting better each year 

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I like to look at the numbers per team, so here's the breakdown, by team, of total number of All Pro players, split into number of 1st teamers and number of 2nd teamers. Interesting to me that Colts and Packers had the most overall (6). Colts/Packers/Chiefs all had the most 1st teamers (4). I also highlighted all of the playoff teams in bold.

 

#All Pros/Team/#Firsts/#Seconds

     (6)      Packers 4 First / 2 Second

               Colts 4 First / 2 Second

      (5)     Chiefs 4 First / 1 Second

               Bills 1 First / 4 Second

      (4)     Browns 2 First / 2 Second

      (3)     Dolphins 2 First / 1 Second

               Patriots 2 First / 1 Second

               Steelers 2 First / 1 Second

               Bears 1 First / 2 Second

               Seahawks 1 First / 2 Second

               Saints 0 First / 3 Second

      (2)     Rams 2 First / 0 Second

               Ravens 1 First / 1 Second

               Cards 1 First / 1 Second

               Bucs 0 First / 2 Second

               Lions 0 First / 2 Second

      (1)     49ers 1 First

               Titans 1 First

               Skins 1 First

               Bengals 1 Second

               Broncos 1 Second

               Falcons 1 Second

               Vikings 1 Second

       (0)    chargers, cowboys, eagles, giants, jaguars, jets, panthers, raiders, texans 

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42 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

I like to look at the numbers per team, so here's the breakdown, by team, of total number of All Pro players, split into number of 1st teamers and number of 2nd teamers. Interesting to me that Colts and Packers had the most overall (6). Colts/Packers/Chiefs all had the most 1st teamers (4). I also highlighted all of the playoff teams in bold.

 

#All Pros/Team/#Firsts/#Seconds

     (6)      Packers 4 First / 2 Second

               Colts 4 First / 2 Second

      (5)     Chiefs 4 First / 1 Second

               Bills 1 First / 4 Second

      (4)     Browns 2 First / 2 Second

      (3)     Dolphins 2 First / 1 Second

               Patriots 2 First / 1 Second

               Steelers 2 First / 1 Second

               Bears 1 First / 2 Second

               Seahawks 1 First / 2 Second

               Saints 0 First / 3 Second

      (2)     Rams 2 First / 0 Second

               Ravens 1 First / 1 Second

               Cards 1 First / 1 Second

               Bucs 0 First / 2 Second

               Lions 0 First / 2 Second

      (1)     49ers 1 First

               Titans 1 First

               Skins 1 First

               Bengals 1 Second

               Broncos 1 Second

               Falcons 1 Second

               Vikings 1 Second

       (0)    chargers, cowboys, eagles, giants, jaguars, jets, panthers, raiders, texans 

I wonder if number of all pros has a direct correlation or is usually a predictor of past Super Bowl participants?  I ask because I thought at mid season that we would end up facing the Packers in the Super Bowl if we got there.  Interesting that our 2 teams each had the most all pros. And wasn’t our game vs the Packers one of the most watched games this season?  If so, league should have no problem running that game back in the big game.  Maybe we get another OT Colts victory???

 :colts::lombardi::rock:

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I think the interesting thing is Colts had 2 All Pro guys in each phase of the game.

 

2 - Offense

2 - Defense

2 -SPT

 

 

And to say Nelson had a bad year is way off base. Take a look at @EastStreet post about win shares.

 

Nelson was #1/#3 , cant remember off top of head which was pass and which was rush, but nothing down about that season.

 

And DL was hampered by a hamstring injury for 3-4 weeks effecting his play and still had a good year.

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Just now, w87r said:

And DL was hampered by a hamstring injury for 3-4 weeks effecting his play and still had a good year.

Yep, and he missed 2 games...so he compiled those impressive stats during a 14-game season.

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This just shows the talent Ballard and his scouting staff has acquired for this team.

 

Indy could have easily had another 2 All-Pro players in Braden Smith and Kenny Moore as well. 

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1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Fact is,  they are both All Pro and far from average 

 

You're right, both are far from average and both are all-pros.  I didn't say anything to the contrary.

 

That said, all-pro voting is subjective.  PFF wise, Nelson did not grade out as the highest OG in the NFL like he did last year and Leonard was also not at the highest of his position.  Stats wise alone, there were multiple other LBs who had more tackles, sacks, INTs, FF, tackles for loss, or combinations of several of those than Leonard.  Leonard did make some very key plays for us, especially down the stretch and had some monster games.

 

I'm glad we have Nelson and Leonard on our team.  Both guys are solid young leaders and great NFL players (well above average at their respective positions).  However, my response which you replied to was regarding something you said @Moosejawcolt said... and technically, he isn't very wrong when he said Leonard had a down year -- he was down in INTs (5 last year, 0 this year), sacks, and was almost exactly the same in tackles per game this year compared to last year -- while it is a tremendous year for everyone else, it is technically a down year for him.

 

@Moosejawcoltwas wrong if he, like you said, said Nelson was having an 'average year', especially if by context he meant NFL-wide.  That said, Nelson's PFF grade in 2019 was a 91.2, this year was a 86.1 - down >6 points from last year.  As a rookie, he posted a 79.7, so really for Nelson's standards (with a small sample size of 2 years prior to this), his average would have been 85.5 PFF grade.  He posted an 86.1, which is just about 'average' for Nelson's standards.  Nelson also only committed 3 penalties all of 2019 after having 9 as a rookie.. in 2020, he had 7 (just worse than average for him).  He didn't commit any penalties after Dec 6, and 3 of his holds were against GB (I'm pretty sure he was fairly banged up that game).

 

Again, not saying Q and DL are not great players... they certainly are... but they set unreal standards for themselves their first two years and really, by the numbers 2020 was a down year for both of them (compared to themselves, not compared to the majority of the league).

18 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

Yep, and he missed 2 games...so he compiled those impressive stats during a 14-game season.

 

He had 7 sacks, 5 INTs, and a TD in 13 games last year.  

Again, Leonard's a great player.... my major concern with him is his health.  He hasn't played 16 games yet.  Playing 15, 13, and 14 games respectively isn't like he's missing a lot of time -- but if there is any knock I have on Leonard (or concern on him moving forward) it's that he hasn't played a full season yet.  I hope that trend doesn't continue..... still he's a great player and very glad he's a Colt.

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18 minutes ago, bestQBever said:

NICE!!! one funny little note: they left the second team TE spot vacant... does that mean nobody was good enough behind Kelce to be second team? not even Waller?

 

No, it means Kelce was unanimous at position where only one guy gets votes.  In other words, not a single other TE got a vote to be an all-pro.

 

They don't have a vote for 1st and 2nd team... they vote for first-team only.  The guy with the most votes at each position gets named first-team, other with votes are counted towards 2nd team (e.g., at QB Rodgers got 46 of 50 votes.. Allen and Mahomes each got 2, so they tied for second.. if Rodgers got all 50 votes, there would have been no 2nd team all-pro QB either).

 

A breakdown of votes can be found here:  https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/08/full-vote-totals-for-2020-nfl-all-pro-team/

 

 

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23 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

This just shows the talent Ballard and his scouting staff has acquired for this team.

 

Indy could have easily had another 2 All-Pro players in Braden Smith and Kenny Moore as well. 

 

Until they have a 'slot CB' spot specifically (see Darius Butler's twitter arguing for this), I don't see Moore II getting votes.

 

Braden Smith did receive 5 votes: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/08/full-vote-totals-for-2020-nfl-all-pro-team/

 

I am actually shocked that D. Henry didn't get all 50 and that there was a 2nd team RB.  Henry got 47 votes and Kamara got 3 (kind of shocking, as he didn't break 1,000 yards).  Quite honestly, if anyone didn't vote for Henry, I'd think they should have voted for Dalvin Cook or maybe even JT.

 

To further Ballard's credibility -- if King Henry doesn't have another monster year next year and go unanimous, and JT gets RB #1 carries throughout the season and continues to improve, I expect he'll get some votes next year (he'll be a household name by then and should put up even more impressive numbers).

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44 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

He had 7 sacks, 5 INTs, and a TD in 13 games last year.  

If you expect numbers like this every year, you have another thing coming.

 

It was one of the best seasons ever put together by a defensive player. 

 

It is unrealistic to expect that every year and now he has a beast in front of him that has shifted his role a little bit. Not blitzing as much, dropping back more. Even his tackle numbers are down because RBs are not getting to the 2nd level as much. The DL makes a lot of tackles.

 

Just tallying players above 20tkls

2020:

Buckner 58tkls

Stewart 53 tkls

Autry 33tkls

Houston 25tkls

Lewis 24tkls

Muhammad 23tkls

Total: 216

 

2019:

Houston 44tkls

Autry 32tkls

Stewart 30tkls

Muhammad 28tkls

Sheard 25tkls

Total:159

 

 

As I was saying plays are not getting to the 2nd level as much.

 

Im not able to find Leonard's blitz percentage stats, maybe @EastStreet can find those?

 

Those numbers are down as well though. His role has changed. 

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3 hours ago, Nickster said:

Yeah, I don't feel like DL has had a All-Pro type of season.  But I don't focus on any other Wills, so maybe so.

Thank God the actual players vote...not the "experts" like yourself.

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2 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Thank God the actual players vote...not the "experts" like yourself.

Well, you're an "expert" like the rest of us on here, and an even less informed one at that. You are the pot calling the kettle black with your statement.

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8 minutes ago, w87r said:

If you expect numbers like this every year, you have another thing coming.

 

It was one of the best seasons ever put together by a defensive player. 

 

It is unrealistic to expect that every year and now he has a beast in front of him that has shifted his role a little bit. Not blitzing as much, dropping back more. Even his tackle numbers are down because RBs are not getting to the 2nd level as much. The DL makes a lot of tackles.

 

Just tallying players above 20tkls

2020:

Buckner 58tkls

Stewart 53 tkls

Autry 33tkls

Houston 25tkls

Lewis 24tkls

Muhammad 23tkls

Total: 216

 

2019:

Houston 44tkls

Autry 32tkls

Stewart 30tkls

Muhammad 28tkls

Sheard 25tkls

Total:159

 

 

As I was saying plays are not getting to the 2nd level as much.

 

Im not able to find Leonard's blitz percentage stats, maybe @EastStreet can find those?

 

Those numbers are down as well though. His role has changed. 

Colts blitzed 17.1% in 2020, ranked 31 out of 32 teams

Colts blitzed 22.9% in 2019, ranked 27 oit of 32 teams

 

 

These are team numbers, but a 5.8% drop team wide. Would like to see the individual number for Leonard.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/opp.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/opp.htm

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4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Well, you're an "expert" like the rest of us on here, and an even less informed one at that. You are the pot calling the kettle black with your statement.

-zzzzzzzzzzzz

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