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What to learn from - Commonalities in the Bills 3 losses


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4 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Any commonality on TO's?

in the game summaries, and passing specific in the stats area.

 

in short, 5 INTs over the 3 games for Allen, but overall not a huge delta vs the opponents.

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23 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

in the game summaries, and passing specific in the stats area.

 

in short, 5 INTs over the 3 games for Allen, but overall not a huge delta vs the opponents.

Need to be balanced,  force a couple turn overs and not turnover the ball

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41 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

Tangentially related:

 

Colts are 10-2 this year when forcing at least 1 turnover.

 

I think that will be a key to this game. 

That's what I have been thinking and sayin...........

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42 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

Tangentially related:

I grew up in the Willamette Valley of Oregon. There is a small town of "Tangent" where.....I kid you not......there is a sign post outside of town where there is an intersection between Tangent Lane, and Tangent Loop. I looked out my car window one day and stared at the sign post with the names juxtaposed. I think it was a self-actualizing moment. 

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2 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I grew up in the Willamette Valley of Oregon. There is a small town of "Tangent" where.....I kid you not......there is a sign post outside of town where there is an intersection between Tangent Lane, and Tangent Loop. I looked out my car window one day and stared at the sign post with the names juxtaposed. I think it was a self-actualizing moment. 

I am in Pa and we have towns named both “Intercourse” and “Blue Ball.”

 

I would assume growing up a young man in one is FAR more fun than the other, tho i can’t speak from experience as they are both about 2 hours away.

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3 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

I am in Pa and we have towns named both “Intercourse” and “Blue Ball.”

 

I would assume growing up a young man in one is FAR more fun than the other, tho i can’t speak from experience as they are both about 2 hours away.


How far from Intercourse is Paradise?  (Do you have to pass Bird-in-Hand, PA?)

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1 hour ago, Smonroe said:


How far from Intercourse is Paradise?  (Do you have to pass Bird-in-Hand, PA?)

Yup.  They’re all in the same “neck of the woods.”  

Lancaster area.  Amish country.

 

on a side note ... i was getting a real kick out of listening to the electoral college confirmations the other night.  It literally had me laughing out loud.  Some of the names of the representatives...... hilarious.

I swear there was a Cameltoe in there.

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10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Mr Obvious TLDR
1. Balance, and don't be stubborn - Run well if they focus on Rivers. Pass well if they focus on JT.
2. Keep Allen under 300


In short, on D, keeping Allen to under 300 was key to all 3 games. On O, each opponent exploited what Buffalo's D keyed on, and had pretty good balance. Vs TN, the Bills severely limited Henry, but Tannehill made them pay. Vs KC, they limited Mahomes to one of his lowest yardage games, but Edwards made them pay. Vs AZ, they made it difficult for Murray, but Drake had one of his best games. 

 

Common to all games
-Allen under 285 passing
-Allen under 45 rushing
-Buffalo RBs under 80
-Opponent total O 330+
-Opponent passing O 195+
-Opponent RB rushing O 95+
-Opponent total rushing O 139+

 

Game notes
Bills 16 at Titans 42 - Bills keyed on, and limited Henry to 57 yards. Henry still had 2 TDs. Selling out on Henry led to Tannehill being highly efficient with 195 yards and 3 TDs. TN limited Allen to 263 yards and 2 TDs, while INTing him twice. Buffalo won the time of possession battle 32:24/27:36, and Buffalo had 3 TOs. 

 

KC 26 at Bills 17 - Bills keyed in on, and limited Mahomes to only 225 yards. Mahomes was still efficient with 2 TDs and zero INTs. Edwards got off running for 161 yards. KC limited Allen to only 122 passing yards, and only 42 RB rushing yards. Both Diggs and Beasley were limited to sub 50 yards. KC won the time of possession battle 37:45/22:15, and TOs were even at one.

 

Bills 30 at AZ 32 - Bills keyed in on, and attempted to limit Murray. They did a decent job, but Drake had one of his best games rushing. Murray also rushed for 2 TDs, throwing for only 1. While Allen had 284 yards passing, he was INT'd twice, and the RBs only 53 yards. Time of possession was pretty even, and TOs were even at 2.


Allen Passing (yards/TDs/INTs/sacks)
@TN    263/2/2/1
KC        122/2/1/0
@AZ    284/2/2/0

 

Buff RBs Rushing
@TN    77
KC        42
@AZ    35

 

Allen Rushing
@TN    18
KC        42*
@AZ    38*

 

Diggs
@TN    106
KC        46
@AZ    93

 

Beasley
@TN    53
KC        45
@AZ    109

 

Total O Buf D allowed (yards/TDs)
@TN   334/6
KC       466/3
@AZ   462/3

 

Passing O Buf D allowed
@TN   195/3
KC       221/2
@AZ    236/1

 

Rushing O Buf D allowed (total rushing yards/RB yards/TDs)
@TN    139/97/3
KC        245/209/1
@AZ    217/156/2

 


 

Unfortunately, I think containing QBs is our biggest weakness.  

 

I think they should pretty much give up the run, and see if that can beat them with it..  Maybe even play a nickel package as the base defense, zone up and be aggessive in tackling the receiver in front.

 

 

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This could be a place for Blackmon to shine.  From what I'm reading the Bills tend to focus on short and intermediate passing.  

I think Blackmon has been nothing special for several games now, even a lability, but this might be the kind of team that can maximize his skillset.

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6 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

I am in Pa and we have towns named both “Intercourse” and “Blue Ball.”

 

I would assume growing up a young man in one is FAR more fun than the other, tho i can’t speak from experience as they are both about 2 hours away.

In NC ... towns of “Erect” and “Climax.”

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If there's one thing this Offensive coaching staff has done, it's creating a balanced team. If they sell out to stop the run, Rivers will feast. If they sell out against the pass, the rookie will run all over them.

As long as Frank Reich doesn't overthink things, I don't see why the Colts can't move the ball against that defense.

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@EastStreet - the NFL has been a "what have you done for me lately" league. The last 6 games, that OL of the Bills has been a wall of a defense for Josh Allen and they have gotten key defensive players back in their line up after the Hopkins Hail Mary game before their bye week. I don't think they have lost a game since then. They have given up 18-19 points per game on defense since their bye week and their scheme has been pretty stingy vs the pass.

 

Ultimately, we have to play to our strengths of the run setting up the pass and not overdo anything and end up going out of character. In the playoffs, games are not lost before they are won, like Dungy used to say. Play disciplined football, don't turn it over by attempting risky throws, and play complementary football to keep the D's legs fresh and the D and ST doing their part with gaining field position. As long as we don't have huge lulls on offense or defense and play for 60 minutes, we will have a chance.

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1 hour ago, Dingus McGirt said:

In NC ... towns of “Erect” and “Climax.”

 

7 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

I am in Pa and we have towns named both “Intercourse” and “Blue Ball.”

 

I would assume growing up a young man in one is FAR more fun than the other, tho i can’t speak from experience as they are both about 2 hours away.

Man, pioneers must have been all loved out by the time they got to Oregon. 5 miles from me is the town of Boring....not kidding.

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2 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

 

Man, pioneers must have been all loved out by the time they got to Oregon. 5 miles from me is the town of Boring....not kidding.

Boring, Oregon  That's something.  I'm from Boring.  Are you going to Boring today?  Have you ever been to Boring?

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5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Boring, Oregon  That's something.  I'm from Boring.  Are you going to Boring today?  Have you ever been to Boring?

 

It is so boring that I am going to just spend my time boring in Boring. Oh well!!! :) 

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2 hours ago, Nickster said:

Unfortunately, I think containing QBs is our biggest weakness.  

 

I think they should pretty much give up the run, and see if that can beat them with it..  Maybe even play a nickel package as the base defense, zone up and be aggessive in tackling the receiver in front.

Nickel is really already our base. I don't think we're as high % as Buffalo, but we're very close. Haven't looked at the numbers this year, but last year we were 60+%.

 

We're not bad at containing QBs. LJ did have about 50 yards against us, but he was only 4.5 AVG. Our biggest weakness IMO is easily our soft zone. 

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41 minutes ago, chad72 said:

@EastStreet - the NFL has been a "what have you done for me lately" league. The last 6 games, that OL of the Bills has been a wall of a defense for Josh Allen and they have gotten key defensive players back in their line up after the Hopkins Hail Mary game before their bye week. I don't think they have lost a game since then. They have given up 18-19 points per game on defense since their bye week and their scheme has been pretty stingy vs the pass.

 

Ultimately, we have to play to our strengths of the run setting up the pass and not overdo anything and end up going out of character. In the playoffs, games are not lost before they are won, like Dungy used to say. Play disciplined football, don't turn it over by attempting risky throws, and play complementary football to keep the D's legs fresh and the D and ST doing their part with gaining field position. As long as we don't have huge lulls on offense or defense and play for 60 minutes, we will have a chance.

Since AZ, they beat 4 teams with losing records, an imploded Steelers team at home who has just lost to Washington the week before, and lost to Cinci the next week, and a Fitzmagic-less Dolphins at home. Not saying they are bad, but they played some bad teams, and the good teams they played had issues at the time.

 

Play to our strengths? Cold hard stats say we're ranked 11th in both passing and rushing (equal), and on D, our rush D is #2 while our pass D is 20th. 

 

Balance on O, stop being so soft on D..... 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Since AZ, they beat 4 teams with losing records, an imploded Steelers team at home who has just lost to Washington the week before, and lost to Cinci the next week, and a Fitzmagic-less Dolphins at home. Not saying they are bad, but they played some bad teams, and the good teams they played had issues at the time.

 

Play to our strengths? Cold hard stats say we're ranked 11th in both passing and rushing (equal), and on D, our rush D is #2 while our pass D is 20th. 

 

Balance on O, stop being so soft on D..... 

 

 

 

True. For a team that plays Cover 2, we sure do give up plenty of 20+ yard plays on pass defense, right? If I am not mistaken, we are bottom 10 in the league the last few games. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/colts-vs-bills-preview-super-wild-card-weekend

 

Like I said in another thread, 3rd down D and O plus red zone D and O will be the key differences between winning and losing in this game, IMO.

 

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16 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Nickel is really already our base. I don't think we're as high % as Buffalo, but we're very close. Haven't looked at the numbers this year, but last year we were 60+%.

 

We're not bad at containing QBs. LJ did have about 50 yards against us, but he was only 4.5 AVG. Our biggest weakness IMO is easily our soft zone. 

I mean both in the running game and passing game, not neessarily containing them in the pocket but more like only hope to conain them thype of thing.  Good QBs tend to go off on us.  I am not really talking as much about downfield running.  Watson torched us breaking tackles with his eyes downfield both games.   Burrow, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Carr, all torched us and all performed above their averages in most categories.

 

What I mean by our post is our defensive strength is in the run game as long as Buck and Autry are not both out of the line up.  

 

Sure good QBs hurt everyone, but they are above their own averages against us.  It doesn't seem that the fact that we are very stout against the run game seems to help our defesne too much.


Matter a fact, I have come up with an unconventional theory.  I think the imbalance of our ability v. the run and pass actully hurts the D.  These QB oriented teams are simply putting the ball in the QBs hands and throwing all the time and our front 4 gets exhausted by half time.  In other words, I think it hurts us being so good v. the run.

 

Hell let's go dime base then.  I want to see them forced to run at least to see if it will work.

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2 hours ago, Nickster said:

This could be a place for Blackmon to shine.  From what I'm reading the Bills tend to focus on short and intermediate passing.  

I think Blackmon has been nothing special for several games now, even a lability, but this might be the kind of team that can maximize his skillset.

??? Allen is #6 in deep ball attempts and #3 in air yards.... 

 

Blackmon's performance on deep coverage has been shaky as a 90 year old on crack. I'm pretty worried about this area, which is why I think we need to increase the blitz %. I just hope the coaches have stressed being disciplined to him because you know Buf is watching the tape and have circled his name.

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31 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Boring, Oregon  That's something.  I'm from Boring.  Are you going to Boring today?  Have you ever been to Boring?

I always drive right past Boring.  Never get off Highway 26!

 

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4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

??? Allen is #6 in deep ball attempts and #3 in air yards.... 

 

Blackmon's performance on deep coverage has been shaky as a 90 year old on crack. I'm pretty worried about this area, which is why I think we need to increase the blitz %. I just hope the coaches have stressed being disciplined to him because you know Buf is watching the tape and have circled his name.

"Much like KC with Mahomes, they would rather put the ball in Allen's hands more often.  Against Seattle, they actually set an NFL record for lowest percentage of rushing plays in the first half when they threw 28 times and only attempted 3 rushes.  They kind of repeated this against Denver when they only ran 5 times in the first half.  Jumped out to big leads against both teams. The Bills are an aggressive attacking team on both sides of the ball, but they typically don't really attack deep all that often. Instead, Allen will repeatedly look to get big chunk plays in the intermediate areas between 15-20 yards.  Don't get it wrong, we CAN attack deep, but most teams are so afraid of that, our WR have tons of separation when they threaten deep and then run comebacks."

 

I was going by this from a Bills fan.  I've not watched an entire Bills game in decades so I wouldn't know personally, but the numbers don't seem to support this quote I guess.   Maybe there's some context.

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10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

??? Allen is #6 in deep ball attempts and #3 in air yards.... 

 

Blackmon's performance on deep coverage has been shaky as a 90 year old on crack. I'm pretty worried about this area, which is why I think we need to increase the blitz %. I just hope the coaches have stressed being disciplined to him because you know Buf is watching the tape and have circled his name.

Gosh East, I don't think blitzing this team very often is the answer.  Again, from what I've been reading about Buffalo I was under the impression that Allen is money v. the Blitz. 

 

I'm concerned with Blackmon's deep cover skills.  I think we are going to need more of a Hooker type of centerfielder out their, and let Blackmon play SS which is essentially in many cases the same postion that Leonard plays.  W and FS are pretty similar in a single high set.  

 

I think Blackmon's skillset is largely nullified playing too far from the LOS.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

"Much like KC with Mahomes, they would rather put the ball in Allen's hands more often.  Against Seattle, they actually set an NFL record for lowest percentage of rushing plays in the first half when they threw 28 times and only attempted 3 rushes.  They kind of repeated this against Denver when they only ran 5 times in the first half.  Jumped out to big leads against both teams. The Bills are an aggressive attacking team on both sides of the ball, but they typically don't really attack deep all that often. Instead, Allen will repeatedly look to get big chunk plays in the intermediate areas between 15-20 yards.  Don't get it wrong, we CAN attack deep, but most teams are so afraid of that, our WR have tons of separation when they threaten deep and then run comebacks."

 

I was going by this from a Bills fan.  I've not watched an entire Bills game in decades so I wouldn't know personally, but the numbers don't seem to support this quote I guess.   Maybe there's some context.

Bills throw it short or medium  range and their receivers  have big run after catch ability. So we need sound tackling.

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Just now, Nickster said:

"Much like KC with Mahomes, they would rather put the ball in Allen's hands more often.  Against Seattle, they actually set an NFL record for lowest percentage of rushing plays in the first half when they threw 28 times and only attempted 3 rushes.  They kind of repeated this against Denver when they only ran 5 times in the first half.  Jumped out to big leads against both teams. The Bills are an aggressive attacking team on both sides of the ball, but they typically don't really attack deep all that often. Instead, Allen will repeatedly look to get big chunk plays in the intermediate areas between 15-20 yards.  Don't get it wrong, we CAN attack deep, but most teams are so afraid of that, our WR have tons of separation when they threaten deep and then run comebacks."

 

I was going by this from a Bills fan.  I've not watched an entire Bills game in decades so I wouldn't know personally, but the numbers don't seem to support this quote I guess.   Maybe there's some context.

You said short to intermediate. The article says intermediate chunk (which is partially correct). Stats say he's top 10, almost top 5 in deep balls. He's 10th in big plays (>25 yards). 

 

I've watched a few games. He's well rounded and attacks 100% of the field. Perimeter and seam, short, intermediate, and deep. If you look at his WRs and their individual stats, you can see who gets what as the norm. 

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15 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I mean both in the running game and passing game, not neessarily containing them in the pocket but more like only hope to conain them thype of thing.  Good QBs tend to go off on us.  I am not really talking as much about downfield running.  Watson torched us breaking tackles with his eyes downfield both games.   Burrow, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Carr, all torched us and all performed above their averages in most categories.

 

What I mean by our post is our defensive strength is in the run game as long as Buck and Autry are not both out of the line up.  

 

Sure good QBs hurt everyone, but they are above their own averages against us.  It doesn't seem that the fact that we are very stout against the run game seems to help our defesne too much.


Matter a fact, I have come up with an unconventional theory.  I think the imbalance of our ability v. the run and pass actully hurts the D.  These QB oriented teams are simply putting the ball in the QBs hands and throwing all the time and our front 4 gets exhausted by half time.  In other words, I think it hurts us being so good v. the run.

 

Hell let's go dime base then.  I want to see them forced to run at least to see if it will work.

I'm sure we'll see a decent amount of Dime. Even if they do chose to run, their RBs are not world beaters, and they aren't fast. Productive to an extent, but not scary or capable of taking it to the house. So nothing a DB can't handle.

 

I'm bummed RYS is out. This is a game I think he'd play very well in. And it's likely that Moore moves to CB2, with Carrie to NB. Carrie is fine at NB, but Moore struggles at CB2. I just hope they allow him to play tight.

 

I think we'll definitely see more of Wilson, and perhaps Odum as well.

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17 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Gosh East, I don't think blitzing this team very often is the answer.  Again, from what I've been reading about Buffalo I was under the impression that Allen is money v. the Blitz. 

 

I'm concerned with Blackmon's deep cover skills.  I think we are going to need more of a Hooker type of centerfielder out their, and let Blackmon play SS which is essentially in many cases the same postion that Leonard plays.  W and FS are pretty similar in a single high set.  

 

I think Blackmon's skillset is largely nullified playing too far from the LOS.

Allen's completion % is great, but drops biggly to very average when under pressure. 

 

If we are playing C1 or C3 with single high, I'd agree Hooker is a much better option. I've said for a while, Blackmon could likely be PB/AP at SS. 

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11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Allen's completion % is great, but drops biggly to very average when under pressure. 

 

If we are playing C1 or C3 with single high, I'd agree Hooker is a much better option. I've said for a while, Blackmon could likely be PB/AP at SS. 

What is PB/AP?

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I noticed in the Bills 3 losses they've scored less points than the opposition...

 

Seriously, good post @EastStreet. Strange to be having the conversations that I'm sure fans of previous opponents in the Manning era must have had. Keep the ball out his hands etc etc.

 

Saying that, didn't work too well for Miami that one time.

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32 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'm sure we'll see a decent amount of Dime. Even if they do chose to run, their RBs are not world beaters, and they aren't fast. Productive to an extent, but not scary or capable of taking it to the house. So nothing a DB can't handle.

 

I'm bummed RYS is out. This is a game I think he'd play very well in. And it's likely that Moore moves to CB2, with Carrie to NB. Carrie is fine at NB, but Moore struggles at CB2. I just hope they allow him to play tight.

 

I think we'll definitely see more of Wilson, and perhaps Odum as well.

I agree about Rock, and I think he is salvagable as a slot corner if in fact his lack of speed prohibits him from being an effective outside corner. 


I'm totally biased because I've been involved with wrestling for decades, and I want him to be good because he is part of our wrestling cult.

 

But I really want to see him in a position to get legal  hands on people and beat the dog * out of them.

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58 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

True. For a team that plays Cover 2, we sure do give up plenty of 20+ yard plays on pass defense, right? If I am not mistaken, we are bottom 10 in the league the last few games. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/colts-vs-bills-preview-super-wild-card-weekend

 

Like I said in another thread, 3rd down D and O plus red zone D and O will be the key differences between winning and losing in this game, IMO.

 

Alot of those plays are when we switch to man.  We are not good in man.

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20 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Allen's completion % is great, but drops biggly to very average when under pressure. 

 

If we are playing C1 or C3 with single high, I'd agree Hooker is a much better option. I've said for a while, Blackmon could likely be PB/AP at SS. 

 (Insert any QBs name here)  completion % is great, but drops biggly to very average when under pressure.

 

It's not so much completion % that is concerning to me, it's big plays v. Blitz.      It takes 10 Tua Tagavaialo passes to equal one 50 yd chunk. 

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12 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

I noticed in the Bills 3 losses they've scored less points than the opposition...

 

Seriously, good post @EastStreet. Strange to be having the conversations that I'm sure fans of previous opponents in the Manning era must have had. Keep the ball out his hands etc etc.

 

Saying that, didn't work too well for Miami that one time.

yeah, depending on the year, Peyton had some RB help though. 

i'm still a bit surprised how one dimensional, yet successful the Bills have been.

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Rashawn Slater         Northwestern   OT          6'4''        314 15.   Wyatt Davis Ohio State           OG         6'4"        315 16.   Gregory Rousseau   Miami (FL)           EDGE     6'5"        260 17.   Trevon Moehrig        TCU        S              6'2"        202 18.   Christian Darrisaw    Virginia Tech      OT          6'5''        314 19.   Christian Barmore    Alabama              DL3T      6'5"        310 20.   Rondale Moore         Purdue WRS       5'9"        175 21.   Kwity Paye  Michigan              EDGE     6'4"        277 22.   Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah Notre Dame       OLB        6'1''        216 23.   Asante Samuel Jr.     Florida State       CB           5'10"      180 24.   Samuel Cosmi            Texas    OT          6'7"        309 25.   Rashod Bateman      Minnesota          WR         6'1"        210 26.   Travis Etienne            Clemson              RB           5'10"      210 27.   Mac Jones   Alabama              QB          6'2''        214 28.   Daviyon Nixon           Iowa      DL3T      6'3"        305 29.   Richie Grant               UCF        S              6'0"        194 30.   Azeez Ojulari              Georgia EDGE     6'3"        240 31.   Nick Bolton Missouri               ILB          6'0"        235 32.   Alijah Vera-Tucker   USC        OG         6'4"        315 33.   Najee Harris               Alabama              RB           6'2"        230 34.   Kyle Trask    Florida  QB          6'4''        240 35.   Terrace Marshall      LSU        WR         6'3"        200 36.   Zaven Collins              Tulsa      OLB        6'4''        260 37.   Joseph Ossai              Texas    EDGE     6'4"        253 38.   Alex Leatherwood   Alabama              OT          6'6"        312 39.   Trey Smith  Tennessee          OG         6'6"        330 40.   Creed Humphrey     Oklahoma           OC          6'5"        320 41.   Tyson Campbell        Georgia CB           6'2"        180 42.   Jay Tufele    USC        DL3T      6'2"        310 43.   Andre Cisco Syracuse              S              6'0"        203 44.   Jalen Mayfield           Michigan              OT          6'5"        320 45.   Marvin Wilson           Florida State       DL1T      6'3"        319 46.   Dylan Moses              Alabama              OLB        6'3"        235 47.   Pat Freiermuth         Penn State          TE           6'5"        250 48.   Jayson Oweh             Penn State          EDGE     6'5"        257 49.   Greg Newsome II     Northwestern   CB           6'1"        190 50.   Tylan Wallace             Oklahoma State WR         6'0"        185 51.   Carlos Basham Jr.     Wake Forest       DL5T      6'5"        285 52.   Jabril Cox     LSU        OLB        6'2"        233 53.   Tyler Shelvin              LSU        DL1T      6'3"        346 54.   Kadarius Toney         Florida  WR         5'11''      190 55.   Elijah Molden            Washington        CB           5'10"      186 56.   Elijah Moore              Ole Miss               WRS       5'9"        184 57.   Ben Cleveland           Georgia OG         6'6"        335 58.   Jevon Holland            Oregon S              6'1"        196 59.   Landon Dickerson    Alabama              OC          6'6''        325 60.   Jaylen Twyman         Pitt         DL5T      6'2"        290 61.   Shakur Brown            Michigan State  CB           5'11"      190 62.   Alim McNeill               North Carolina State       DL3T      6'2"        320 63.   Hamsah Nasirildeen Florida State       S              6'4"        215 64.   Jaelan Phillips             Miami (FL)           EDGE     6'5"        255 65.   Shaun Wade               Ohio State           CB           6'1"        194 66.   Kenneth Gainwell    Memphis             RB           5'11"      191 67.   Patrick Jones II          Pitt         EDGE     6'5"        260 68.   Amon-Ra St. Brown USC        WR         6'1"        195 69.   Cameron McGrone Michigan              OLB        6'1''        232 70.   Darius Stills West Virginia      DL5T      6'1"        285 71.   Jackson Carman        Clemson              OT          6'5"        335 72.   Joe Tryon     Washington        EDGE     6'5"        262 73.   Ifeatu Melifonwu     Syracuse              CB           6'3"        212 74.   Talanoa Hufanga      USC        S              6'1"        215 75.   Chazz Surratt              North Carolina   OLB        6'3"        230 76.   Josh Myers Ohio State           OC          6'5''        312 77.   Liam Eichenberg       Notre Dame       OT          6'6"        302 78.   Trey Sermon              Ohio State           RB           6'0"        224 79.   Javonte Williams       North Carolina   RB           5'10"      220 80.   Marlon Williams        UCF        WR         6'0"        215 81.   Michael Carter          North Carolina   RBC        5'9"        195 82.   Paris Ford    Pittsburgh           S              6'0"        190 83.   Levi Onwuzurike      Washington        DL3T      6'3"        293 84.   Dillon Radunz            North Dakota State         OT          6'6''        299 85.   Brevin Jordan            Miami (FL)           TE           6'3"        245 86.   Deonte Brown           Alabama              OG         6'4''        350 87.   Walker Little               Stanford              OT          6'7"        313 88.   Hamilcar Rashed      Oregon State     EDGE     6'3''        248 89.   Chuba Hubbard         Oklahoma State RB           6'1"        207 90.   D'Wayne Eskridge    W Michigan        WRS       5'9"        188 91.   Quincy Roche            Miami (FL)           EDGE     6'4"        235 92.   Anthony Schwartz   Auburn WR         6'0"        197 93.   Jamie Newman         Georgia QB          6'4"        230 94.   Jaelon Darden           North Texas        WRS       5'9"        174 95.   Dyami Brown             North Carolina   WR         6'1"        185 96.   Teven Jenkins            Oklahoma State OT          6'6''        320 97.   Seth Williams             Auburn WR         6'2"        224 98.   Tutu Atwell Louisville              WRS       5'9"        156 99.   Baron Browning        Ohio State           ILB          6'3"        248 100.           Ronnie Perkins  Oklahoma           OLB        6'4'         230 101.           Dazz Newsome North Carolina   WR         5'11"      175 102.           Paulson Adebo  Stanford              CB           6'1"        190 103.           Richard LeCounte III        Georgia S              5'11"      190 104.           Damonte Coxie Memphis             WR         6'3''        197 105.           Aaron Robinson UCF        CB           5'11''      193 106.           Jaret Patterson Buffalo RB           5'9"        195 107.           Drake Jackson    Kentucky             OC          6'2''        292 108.           Sage Surratt        Wake Forest       WR         6'2"        215 109.           Dayo Odeyingbo              Vanderbilt           DL5T      6'5''        279 110.           Israel Mukuamu               South Carolina   CB           6'3"        205 111.           Hunter Long       Boston College  TE           6'5"        253 112.           Kenny Yeboah   Ole Miss               TE           6'4''        240 113.           Marlon Tuipulotu             USC        DL3T      6'1"        308 114.           Divine Deablo    Virginia Tech      S              6'3''        226 115.           Khalil Herbert    Virginia Tech      RBC        5'9"        205 116.           Rashad Weaver Pitt         EDGE     6'5"        270 117.           Eric Stokes          Georgia CB           6'1"        185 118.           Ar'Darius Washington    TCU        S              5'8"        175 119.           Aaron Banks       Notre Dame       OG         6'5"        330 120.           Pete Werner      Ohio State           ILB          6'3''        239 121.           Chris Rumph II   Duke     EDGE     6'3"        225 122.           Tony Poljan        Virginia TE           6'7"        265 123.           Trey Hill                Georgia OC          6'4"        330 124.           Cary Angeline    North Carolina State       TE           6'7"        250 125.           Ihmir Smith-Marsette    Iowa      WR         6'2"        175 126.           Kylin Hill               Mississippi State               RB           5'11"      215 127.           Charles Snowden             Virginia OLB        6'6"        232 128.           Caden Sterns     Texas    S              6'0"        210 129.           Rodarius Williams             Oklahoma State CB           6'0"        193 130.           Quinn Meinerz  UW-Whitewater              OC          6'3"        320 131.           Keith Taylor        Washington        CB           6'3"        191 132.           Elijah Mitchell    Louisiana             RB           5'11"      221 133.           Tedarrell Slaton Florida  DL1T      6'5"        358 134.           Pooka Williams  Kansas  RBC        5'10"      170 135.           Olaijah Griffin    USC        CB           6'0''        170 136.           Torrance Marable            Coastal Carolina                RBC        5'10"      200 137.           Damon Hazelton              Missouri               WR         6'2"        215 138.           Tariq Thompson               San Diego State S              6'0"        200 139.           Ta'Quon Graham              Texas    DL3T      6'4"        294 140.           K.J. Britt                Auburn ILB          6'0"        236 141.           Monty Rice         Georgia OLB        6'1"        235 142.           Kylen Granson   SMU      TE           6'2''        235 143.           Kellen Mond      Texas A&M         QB          6'3"        217 144.           Paddy Fisher      Northwestern   ILB          6'4"        246 145.           Amari Rodgers  Clemson              WR         5'9"        210 146.           Jamien Sherwood            Auburn S              6'2''        220 147.           Max Duffy           Kentucky             P             6'1"        185 148.           Spencer K. Brown             Northern Iowa  OT          6'9''        321 149.           Nico Collins         Michigan              WR         6'4"        222 150.           Tommy Togiai    Ohio State           DL3T      6'2"        300 151.           JaCoby Stevens LSU        S              6'1''        228 152.           Jordan Smith      UAB       EDGE     6'7"        255 153.           Tyler Vaughns   USC        WR         6'2"        190 154.           Jack Anderson   Texas Tech          OG         6'5"        315 155.           Bobby Brown III Texas A&M         DL1T      6'3"        325 156.           Darren Hall          San Diego State CB           6'0"        190 157.           Donovan Stiner Florida  S              6'1"        203 158.           Wyatt Hubert    Kansas State       EDGE     6'3"        270 159.           Thomas Graham Jr.         Oregon CB           5'10"      193 160.           Shemar Jean-Charles      Appalachian State            CB           5'11"      190 161.           Malik Herring     Georgia DL5T      6'3"        283 162.           Daelin Hayes      Notre Dame       EDGE     6'4"        268 163.           Tommy Kraemer              Notre Dame       OG         6'6"        317 164.           Marco Wilson    Florida  CB           6'0"        190 165.           Trill Williams       Syracuse              CB           6'2'         198 166.           Shaka Toney       Penn State          EDGE     6'3"        243 167.           Jimmy Morrissey              Pitt         OC          6'3"        305 168.           Sam Ehlinger      Texas    QB          6'3"        225 169.           Sadarius Hutcherson      South Carolina   OG         6'4"        320 170.           D.J. Daniel           Georgia CB           6'0''        183 171.           Camryn Bynum Cal          CB           6'0''        198 172.           Jermar Jefferson              Oregon State     RBC        5'9"        215 173.           Jose Borregales Miami (FL)           PK           5'10"      205 174.           Alaric Jackson    Iowa      OT          6'6"        315 175.           Brennan Eagles Texas    WR         6'2"        225 176.           Tommy Doyle    Miami (OH)         OT          6'8''        326 177.           Jonathan Marshall           Arkansas              DL1T      6'3"        317 178.           Shane Buechele SMU      QB          6'1"        207 179.           Joshua Kaindoh Florida State       EDGE     6'7"        261 180.           James Hudson   Cincinnati            OT          6'5"        310 181.           Benjamin St-Juste            Minnesota          CB           6'3"        200 182.           Demetric Felton                UCLA     RBC        5'9"        189 183.           Victor Dimukeje Duke     EDGE     6'2"        265 184.           Xavier Kelly         Arkansas              DL3T      6'4"        305 185.           Kary Vincent Jr. LSU        CB           5'10"      182 186.           Noah Gray           Duke     TE           6'4"        240 187.           Adrian Ealy          Oklahoma           OT          6'6"        327 188.           Michal Menet   Penn State          OC          6'4''        305 189.           Pressley Harvin III            Georgia Tech      P             6'0"        255 190.           Amen Ogbongbemiga    Oklahoma State OLB        6'1"        231 191.           T.J. Vasher          Texas Tech          WR         6'6"        210 192.           Josh Imatorbhebhe         Illinois   WR         6'2"        215 193.           Matt Bushman  BYU        TE           6'5"        245 194.           Stevie Scott        Indiana RB           6'2"        231 195.           Brady Christensen           BYU        OT          6'6''        300 196.           Quintin Morris   Bowling Green  TE           6'4"        248 197.           Riley Patterson Memphis             PK           6'0"        190 198.           Malcolm Koonce              Buffalo EDGE     6'3"        250 199.           Robert Rochell   Central Arkansas              CB           6'0''        195 200.           Ben Mason         Michigan              FB           6'3"        254
    • It's kind of like comparing what I did in the bathroom to what you did in the bathroom, but Collins played worse than Painter in 2011, on the same team, with the same staff. I didn't say Painter played better, because that word doesn't seem appropriate here. But I thought Collins was clearly worse, and a bad fit for our offense at the time.   It was always weird to bring Collins in as the starter the way they did. I get signing him. Making him the starter wasn't a good idea. Of course, the alternative was Curtis Painter, so it probably wouldn't have mattered.
    • Round 4 97.   Jacksonville (1-15) - Javonte Williams, RB, North Carolina 98.   NY Jets (2-14) - Chubba Hubbard, RB, Oklahoma State 99.   Atlanta (4-12) - Paris Ford, S, Pittsburgh 100.  New Orleans from Houston (4-12) - Dyami Brown, WR, North Carolina 101.  Cleveland - from Philadelphia (4-11-1) - Hamilcar Rashed, EDGE, Oregon 102.  Cincinnati (4-11-1) - Tutu Atwell, WR, Louisville 103.  Detroit (5-11) 104.  New Orleans from Houston from Carolina (5-11) 105.  Denver (5-11) 106.  Dallas (6-10) 107.  NY Giants (6-10) 108.  San Francisco (6-10) 109.  LA Chargers (7-9) 110.  Minnesota (7-9) 111.  LA Chargers from New England (7-9) 112.  Las Vegas from Miami - from Las Vegas (8-8) 113.  Eagles from Carolina from Houston - from Arizona (8-8) 114.  Miami (10-6) 115.  WFT* (7-9) 116.  Minnesota - from Chicago* (8-8) 117.  Tennessee* (11-5) 118.  Las Vegas from Indianapolis* (11-5) 119.  Pittsburgh* (12-4) 120.  Seattle* (12-4) 121.  Jacksonville - from LA Rams* (10-6) 122.  Baltimore* (11-5) 123.  Chicago from Cleveland* (11-5) 124.  New Orleans* (12-4) 125.  Minnesota - from Buffalo* (13-3) 126.  Green Bay* (13-3) 127.  Kansas City* (14-2) 128.  Tampa Bay* (11-5)     Arizona -> Houston: De'Andre Hopkins Buffalo -> Minnesota: Stefon Diggs Chicago -> Minnesota: 2020 picks LA Rams -> Jacksonville: Jalen Ramsey Philadelphia -> Cleveland: Genard Avery Las Vegas -> Miami: Raekwon McMillan Miami -> Las Vegas: Lynn Bowden Jr. Carolina -> Houston: Tua trade Houston -> Carolina: Tua trade Carolina -> Eagles: Zach Ertz trade Indianapolis -> Las Vegas: Carr trade New England -> LA Chargers: Patrick Surtain Cleveland -> Chicago: Jarvis Landry trade Houston -> New Orleans: Lattimore trade
    • Since the Manning era started...I think so. At least his stats as a starting QB for the Colts would seem to indicate that. But overall, Painter and Tolzien were worse QBs.    
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