Reich’s offensive rankings in 3 seasons with 3 different QBs (impressive) (Merge)

[Moosejawcolt]

A

12 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

My take on Frank going to Brisset on that 2nd & 11 play is similar to some posts early but a little different as well.  I think Frank went to Jacoby because he REALLY WANTED to run the ball right then.  He said exactly that in his post game press conference.  I also took note that he didn't seem too ecstatic about winning and going to the playoffs (I'm sure he was but I'll get to why he wasn't outwardly showing it later). 

 

So, if you read between the lines, Frank was basically saying he went to Jacoby because he knew Jacoby would give the ball to Taylor whereas Phillip would have likely audibled to a pass.  He knew that we were in a position to put the game away with Taylor right then and he that's what he wanted the team to do.  Put the game away with Taylor.  I commend Frank for finally realizing that it is through Taylor that this team can achieve the ultimate goal this season.  Seems like Rivers sees things differently and is the reason Frank wasn't coming across as very happy to be in the dance in his press conference.  Frank feels he has to put in Jacoby in order to ensure that Taylor gets the ball when he wants him to.

 

Here is where the problem came in though.  Brisset (listening to Frank's orders to Run the Damn Ball) overthinks the plays.  First he forces it to Taylor when he probably could have kept it and ran for a BIG gain.  Taylor still almost broke it for a BIG gain himself but it was a missed opportunity.  So the next play Jacoby realizes he just missed an opportunity, so he overthinks it again and keeps it this time instead of actually giving it to Taylor regardless of the look because we were in 4 down mode anyway.  Jacoby got stuffed for a loss and we had to settle for the long field goal attempt.

 

So I don't blame Frank for going to Jacoby.  I put more of the blame on Jacoby for his lack of execution.  Same goes for when we went back to Jacoby on the 3rd and short.  This time Brisset is really over thinking things.  He screwed up the last series by not getting it to Taylor so he forces it to him when the sneak would have been the better choice...

 

Now, I'm not absolving Frank of all blame but I understand him reading the game and realizing Taylor has become the focal point of our offense.  The problem is his inability to get Rivers to see it as well.  You can't be trying to implement the change to Taylor being our focal point on game day.  You've gotta hammer that stuff down during the week so that everyone is on the same page which clearly Frank and Rivers are not completely in sync right now.

 

In fact, I think Rivers and Frank now have serious problems.  I think Frank finally realizes the importance of Taylor as our focal point and I think Rivers still feels that he should make the calls at the line and Frank should defer to his judgment and experience.  Rivers is an old school guy.  I can definitely see Phillip saying if the next game (like this last one) could be his last then he's gonna "do it his way"...   

 

This potential drama behind the scenes could make for an interesting Bills game this Saturday.  

TIME TO MOVE ON FROM RIVERS WIN OR LOSE SATURDAY. Capitalization to emphasize my point lol

[Smoke317]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

A

TIME TO MOVE ON FROM RIVERS WIN OR LOSE SATURDAY. Capitalization to emphasize my point lol

I think so too. His lack of mobility seriously limits Frank’s play calling.  Can’t use roll outs. Can’t use the read option and the passes that can be thrown off of it.  
 

Rivers may just surprise us & lean more on Taylor to carry the load this post season. All he has to do is be efficient and make timely throws when needed.  
 

Hopefully the 253 on 30 carries Taylor just put up has made Phillip a believer.  We’ll likely have all our answers come Saturday. 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

I think so too. His lack of mobility seriously limits Frank’s play calling.  Can’t use roll outs. Can’t use the read option and the passes that can be thrown off of it.  
 

Rivers may just surprise us & lean more on Taylor to carry the load this post season. All he has to do is be efficient and make timely throws when needed.  
 

Hopefully the 253 on 30 carries Taylor just put up has made Phillip a believer.  We’ll likely have all our answers come 

Luck had his best under Luck

I believe Frank got the most out of Brissett

Rivers had a bounce back year.

I guess you can question Frank as a play caller. No OC is perfect.

I really do trust him with a qbs development. That is why I'm ready to move on from Rivers. I would like to see Frank with a say Stafford, Wentz, Darnold or a move up to get their franchise qb. I have no idea how high they r on Eason. We will find out this off season.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Why wouldn’t reich just say they had to fix rivers shoe in the presser after instead of trying to justifying what he did. That makes no sense.

[chad72]

Well, after seeing the Eagles' offensive issues and QB issues post SB, I am more inclined to say Frank Reich was a bigger part of their success than we were giving him credit for with the Eagles. 

 

I get mad at him for his head scratching play calling at times too but no OC is perfect. Josh McDaniels could not make chicken salad with Cam Newton, could he? Quality of QB is everything and I do think while Rivers might be our best option now, IF, a big IF, an upgrade is possible, we should pursue it and Frank's playbook will become that much bigger.

 

It is easier to evaluate things once the dust settles than while in the thick of things. Hopefully our consistency and floor improves from 2 quarters to 4 quarters across the board.

[Nickster]

12 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Well, after seeing the Eagles' offensive issues and QB issues post SB, I am more inclined to say Frank Reich was a bigger part of their success than we were giving him credit for with the Eagles. 

 

I get mad at him for his head scratching play calling at times too but no OC is perfect. Josh McDaniels could not make chicken salad with Cam Newton, could he? Quality of QB is everything and I do think while Rivers might be our best option now, IF, a big IF, an upgrade is possible, we should pursue it and Frank's playbook will become that much bigger.

 

It is easier to evaluate things once the dust settles than while in the thick of things. Hopefully our consistency and floor improves from 2 quarters to 4 quarters across the board.

I couldn't agree more than I do with every aspect of this post.

 

I really hope they bring PR back unless we can wrest Rodgers from GB;)  He's gotta be * out there.  BUT, PR has to want to come back.  Who knows what he's thinking?

 

Other than that, I really don't see the possibility of improving the position next year.

 

I don't know enough about Wentz and what's going on out there.  He was a stud, and now he's not this year.  They seem pretty dysfunctional.  He takes a % ton of sacks.  He's enticing though.  I wouldn't be * if they picked him up.  But I still think that people underappreciate PRs brilliance this year.  He's really led this team through some messes.

[Smash Mouth]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

I couldn't agree more than I do with every aspect of this post.

 

I really hope they bring PR back unless we can wrest Rodgers from GB;)  He's gotta be * out there.  BUT, PR has to want to come back.  Who knows what he's thinking?

 

Other than that, I really don't see the possibility of improving the position next year.

 

I don't know enough about Wentz and what's going on out there.  He was a stud, and now he's not this year.  They seem pretty dysfunctional.  He takes a % ton of sacks.  He's enticing though.  I wouldn't be * if they picked him up.  But I still think that people underappreciate PRs brilliance this year.  He's really led this team through some messes.

Wentz played well for Frank.  People are really down on him but Philly and Doug Petersen are a complete dumpster fire.  I have always liked PR but getting 2-3 1st downs per game by the QB extends drives.  We really could use that dynamic

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, Smash Mouth said:

Wentz played well for Frank.  People are really down on him but Philly and Doug Petersen are a complete dumpster fire.  I have always liked PR but getting 2-3 1st downs per game by the QB extends drives.  We really could use that dynamic

I agree.  It would be an awfully big gamble though man.  If we sunk money into Wentz and he was bad, we'd really be screwed.  We'd have enough other talent NOT to get a high draft pick and it would really doom the next 5 years IMO.

 

On the other hand, if he isn't ruined, he'd be exactly what will could get this club back to contention level.  

 

What kind of deal would have to be done for Wentz?  They'd have to eat a lot of salary to make it possbile.  We do have 50 mill coming off the books in our QB room after our SB victory  next month though.  

[Stephen]

14 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I agree.  It would be an awfully big gamble though man.  If we sunk money into Wentz and he was bad, we'd really be screwed.  We'd have enough other talent NOT to get a high draft pick and it would really doom the next 5 years IMO.

 

On the other hand, if he isn't ruined, he'd be exactly what will could get this club back to contention level.  

 

What kind of deal would have to be done for Wentz?  They'd have to eat a lot of salary to make it possbile.  We do have 50 mill coming off the books in our QB room after our SB victory  next month though.  

Hope we don't  go with wentz. He is terrible.  Saw him throwing  short on deep  passes  and failing  to see the whole field

[Smash Mouth]

24 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I agree.  It would be an awfully big gamble though man.  If we sunk money into Wentz and he was bad, we'd really be screwed.  We'd have enough other talent NOT to get a high draft pick and it would really doom the next 5 years IMO.

 

On the other hand, if he isn't ruined, he'd be exactly what will could get this club back to contention level.  

 

What kind of deal would have to be done for Wentz?  They'd have to eat a lot of salary to make it possbile.  We do have 50 mill coming off the books in our QB room after our SB victory  next month though.  

I was listening to NFL Radio this morning and the relationship with Wentz and Petersen is beyond repair.  Wentz had already lost the locker room and Petersen has too. Philly would have to eat much of the contract but they would look to get  significant draft choices.  I'm not convinced Wentz is worth the draft capital.  We still have an incomplete team.  I don't like our QB situation at all

[shasta519]

22 hours ago, zibby43 said:

Not bad for a terrible play-caller (sarcasm intended).

 

 

 

Those are counting stats though. Here is DVOA:

 

Total Offense: #10, #19, #12

Pass Offense: #11, #28, #16

Run Offense: #13, #8, #12

Offense Strength of Schedule: #13, #32, #32

 

Colts need a franchise QB if they want to get back to being a top 10 offense with Reich. Ideally, the goal should be top 5.

[chad72]

12 minutes ago, Smash Mouth said:

I was listening to NFL Radio this morning and the relationship with Wentz and Petersen is beyond repair.  Wentz had already lost the locker room and Petersen has too. Philly would have to eat much of the contract but they would look to get  significant draft choices.  I'm not convinced Wentz is worth the draft capital.  We still have an incomplete team.  I don't like our QB situation at all

 

Obviously Reich and Ballard saw what they had in JB, so they went for the obvious upgrade in Philip Rivers. So, they will know what they have in Eason, and I trust them.

 

This paragraph ASSUMES we are not going with Eason and PR is not brought back. Now, there are only 2 QBs that come close enough to Rivers in experience that can read Ds well and could be available, IMO - Matt Ryan and Matthew Stafford. Matt Ryan's cap hit nearly doubles to close to $40 mil. but Stafford's becomes manageable for the Lions if he is traded. Stafford is more beat up than Ryan, however he will enjoy the O-line we can give him, 100% and has the arm to gun it between a trailing safety and corner, unlike PR. Logically, with a new HC and GM, a Stafford trade makes sense for the Lions and Colts, IMO if PR does not come back. 

 

 

[shasta519]

10 minutes ago, Smash Mouth said:

I was listening to NFL Radio this morning and the relationship with Wentz and Petersen is beyond repair.  Wentz had already lost the locker room and Petersen has too. Philly would have to eat much of the contract but they would look to get  significant draft choices.  I'm not convinced Wentz is worth the draft capital.  We still have an incomplete team.  I don't like our QB situation at all

 

Pederson has to be gone after that. That Week 17 game was an embarrassment...and seemed like a HC who knew he was coaching his last game was DGAFing out there.

[shasta519]

17 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

I think so too. His lack of mobility seriously limits Frank’s play calling.  Can’t use roll outs. Can’t use the read option and the passes that can be thrown off of it.  
 

Rivers may just surprise us & lean more on Taylor to carry the load this post season. All he has to do is be efficient and make timely throws when needed.  
 

Hopefully the 253 on 30 carries Taylor just put up has made Phillip a believer.  We’ll likely have all our answers come Saturday. 

 

They also have to run so many plays out of shotgun too...so I don't think we have seen the best of Taylor yet.

[TimetobringDfence!]

2 hours ago, Smash Mouth said:

I was listening to NFL Radio this morning and the relationship with Wentz and Petersen is beyond repair.  Wentz had already lost the locker room and Petersen has too. Philly would have to eat much of the contract but they would look to get  significant draft choices.  I'm not convinced Wentz is worth the draft capital.  We still have an incomplete team.  I don't like our QB situation at all

Only way I would like to see a vet QB taken is on a cheap prove it contract. Ballard is too good with draft picks to be handing them out.

[TimetobringDfence!]

Just now, TimetobringDfence! said:

Only way I would like to see a vet QB taken is on a cheap prove it contract. Ballard is too good with draft picks to be handing them out.

Unless we're getting another Buckner deal lol.

[cbear]

We knew we were in for a wild ride when he went for the win against Houston. You take the good with the bad I guess.  

[Colts1324]

16 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Unless we're getting another Buckner deal lol.

I have been saying no way, but with the amount of teams in cap hell right now. It's very possible that some Buckner level players become available. 

[TimetobringDfence!]

Just now, Colts1324 said:

I have been saying no way, but with the amount of teams in cap hell right now. It's very possible that some Buckner level players become available. 

A game changing DE or CB would be awesome.

[Virtuoso80]

On 1/4/2021 at 3:10 PM, Superman said:

You make a lot of threads man.

I guess its winter and its cold.  Needs more threads.

[PrideOfAthens17]

As the saying goes, I have no skin in this game. If Philip comes back for one more year, great for me. If he retires, it's been great for me to get to watch him all this time, especially this 2020 season. So I can offer a completely unbiased and objective opinion here. To me, assuming the two guys below become available this offseason, here's my take on them.

 

Wentz

To me the most important question to ask with him has been missed by everyone on this board so far. And that is this. Do you want him as your guy if he's primarily a pocket passer going forward. Does his skill set in that area make you go "WOW! I want him as that guy"? To me the answer is no. What has made Wentz such an effective quarterback in his time so far has been his ability to make plays down the field off his mobility. Big problem with that, though. If a guy is going to play that way for a career in this league, then he's got to be able to take a bunch of hits, get up from all of them, and keep right on slinging it. Wentz hasn't EVER shown the ability to do that, though. And I believe it's been a big enough problem that whoever his team(s) will be going forward will be looking to do what the Steelers eventually had to do with Roethlisberger - make him primarily a pocket passer to keep him on the field for entire seasons. Yet unlike with Ben, I just don't see Wentz being able to be just as effective playing that way. Now obviously, I could be wrong. But if that's the kind of guy we're talking about, which with Wentz I believe it will be soon enough, then I think the next guy is the obvious choice...

 

Stafford

Now I know, the first thing people will say is, "But wait, you just eliminated Wentz because of his injury issues, and now you're propping up Stafford, who's missed time to injury himself? What gives"? Hey, I get it. But here's the difference, and it's a big one. Similar to Rivers, Stafford has never had the kind of protection that he'll get in Indy. Not even close. And if you mostly liked what you saw Philip do this year with that protection, at the end of his career, I can only imagine what a passer with the arm talent Stafford has could do with it in the prime of his career (which I'll always wish I could have seen with Philip in his prime, but that's a different topic). And it's not just us fans who see it, either, but the pros who know it inside and out. Just earlier this year none other than Aaron Rodgers himself picked out of all the quarterbacks on the planet one Matt Stafford to mention the kind of throws he's seen him make that he's not sure any of the rest of them could make. And with the ground game this team will have moving forward, as well? Seriously, people, I can't believe all of you aren't jumping all over these possibilities.

 

So yeah, of the two options above, then short of a blockbuster trade for a Mahomes, Watson or drafting Lawrence, none of which is going to happen, if Stafford were to become available, then man, Ballard would have to go all in after that. I just don't see any reason AT ALL why you wouldn't.

[EastStreet]

To the OP, I think the 3 years of rankings are fluff and lack context.

 

Who doesn't expect to have a top 16 passing attack with Luck or Rivers?

 

Who doesn't expect to have a top 16 rushing attack with our OL regardless of RB?

 

We can also look at both years where JB started in 2017 and 2019. With the OL improvement and upgrades at TE, we should have expected a lot more improvement from JB in 2019, but the performance was similar and improvements were modest at best. 

 

Aside from the scripted stuff, play calling lacks rhythm and adjustments are poor. I'm perfectly fine with JB in short yardage situations, and IMO, is not part of the problem at all. 

 

 

[Dogg63]

9 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

Those are counting stats though. Here is DVOA:

 

Total Offense: #10, #19, #12

Pass Offense: #11, #28, #16

Run Offense: #13, #8, #12

Offense Strength of Schedule: #13, #32, #32

 

Colts need a franchise QB if they want to get back to being a top 10 offense with Reich. Ideally, the goal should be top 5.

 

Seems to be some confusion about where we ended up?

 

 

[pacolts56]

9 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Obviously Reich and Ballard saw what they had in JB, so they went for the obvious upgrade in Philip Rivers. So, they will know what they have in Eason, and I trust them.

 

This paragraph ASSUMES we are not going with Eason and PR is not brought back. Now, there are only 2 QBs that come close enough to Rivers in experience that can read Ds well and could be available, IMO - Matt Ryan and Matthew Stafford. Matt Ryan's cap hit nearly doubles to close to $40 mil. but Stafford's becomes manageable for the Lions if he is traded. Stafford is more beat up than Ryan, however he will enjoy the O-line we can give him, 100% and has the arm to gun it between a trailing safety and corner, unlike PR. Logically, with a new HC and GM, a Stafford trade makes sense for the Lions and Colts, IMO if PR does not come back. 

 

 

If Rivers is not under center next year and we do decide to delve into the market for an experienced QB, I’d prefer Stafford as well.

 

At 32 he should have a good solid 4-5 years left before we’d have to go looking for another QB.

 

[shasta519]

16 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

 

Seems to be some confusion about where we ended up?

 

 

 

I don't think so...I was just pulling total offense, pass offense and rush offense over the past three years...and #12 is the number I have for total offense this year.

 

They played by far the easiest schedule of any offense (the average on defense would have ranked #24 in the NFL)...but they also had the lowest variance...which means they were the most consistent (and that matters).

 

This offense is on the cusp...with the run game and OL in place. A couple more weapons and most importantly, a franchise QB. This is what they are going to get to where they need to be imo...which is top 5-7. 

 

Those top 7 teams are on a different tier than everyone else...and it's no surprise when you look at the QBs (Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Tannehill, Allen, Wilson and Brees). Two have the bye...and the rest are favored except for TEN...and that's because the #11 rank for BAL is not indicative of their ceiling on offense. But if I had to...I would probably wager those 5 teams (TEN, SEA, NO, TB and BUF) will still be playing next weekend (though I hope not in BUF's case).

 

I think the Colts have the luxury of being aggressive this offseason. Rivers show the floor is pretty high...so that should be a plan B of sorts...with plan A being a huge move to acquire a top tier QB.