Report: rivers to return to Colts or retire

[AKB]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

This is turning into Offense vs Defense winning game thread. The TEAM won! 

 

Plain and simple 

No it isn't. 

[Stephen]

4 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

I don't trash Rivers just because I think that he isn't the best option. Trashing him would to say he is terrible, and to question his humanity. I have done none of those things. I have simply stated that in the clutch, he often makes the wrong reads. I have also stated that his throwing power is questionable.

 

However, his IQ is wonderful, and his ability to change the play at the line is something Jacoby and Eason don't have. People only notice the "negative" opinions, not the ones where I engage in other conversations about neutral or positive topics. 

We would have leaned more on taylor if Eason started. The deep  passing  would be better  and he can do roll outs.

[EastStreet]

20 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

I just don't think he has enough throwing power. Most recent example was that interception where TY had both DBs beat. 

He's never had a cannon. Never ever lol.

 

His core stats (ypg, comp%) are top 10, and that's in Reich's conservative O. His stats this year were also better or at minimum  very competitive to Luck's. And that's in a no-preseason covid camp year with a ton of different pass catchers rotating in and out.

 

Not saying he's an all-pro, but he's at minimum top half of the league by almost every basic measurement. A lot of teams would be very happy with that.

[EastStreet]

13 hours ago, Indyfan4life said:

I have to agree with all of this. Hilton and Taylor didn’t come on until the last half of the season and that’s when Rivers was putting up better numbers. Most of this board seems to think if our QB isn’t putting up 5,000 yards, 40 TD and less than 5 INT, then he’s trash and we should move onto Eason. My only gripe with Rivers is his mobility being basically non-existent. I also am aware from time to time he can move out of the pocket and extend a play, but it’s few and far between. Everyone is infatuated with running QBs, but the truth is guys like Mahomes and Jackson are few and far between. Just because we may move to a more mobile QB doesn’t mean anything. Rivers has been more than serviceable for this team. 

Yup, and yup. See my post/response above. Not sure what else he can do. 

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

JB will get a good offer to be a first class backup with some team.

There are a lot of back up options this year. And with the cap shrinkage, I think the market will be a down like glut. I hope he gets a nice offer, as I wish him the best.

[AKB]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

He's never had a cannon. Never ever lol.

 

His core stats (ypg, comp%) are top 10, and that's in Reich's conservative O. His stats this year were also better or at minimum  very competitive to Luck's. And that's in a no-preseason covid camp year with a ton of different pass catchers rotating in and out.

 

Not saying he's an all-pro, but he's at minimum top half of the league by almost every basic measurement. A lot of teams would be very happy with that.

Please do not compare him to Luck, they are worlds apart. IDC what numbers say. That's like comparing atlanta's Ryan to Wilson, or Mahomes. 

 

Matt Ryan is a heck of a QB, but just don't lol. 

[AKB]

5 minutes ago, Stephen said:

We would have leaned more on taylor if Eason started. The deep  passing  would be better  and he can do roll outs.

Yeah, I was okay with him sitting this year. And the Rivers signing makes a lot more sense to me if Eason plays next year. If not, it just seems like a 25M ticket to the end of the draft. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

There are a lot of back up options this year. And with the cap shrinkage, I think the market will be a down like glut. I hope he gets a nice offer, as I wish him the best.

I have he will be back as the Colt backup

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

Please do not compare him to Luck, they are worlds apart. IDC what numbers say. That's like comparing atlanta's Ryan to Wilson, or Mahomes. 

 

Matt Ryan is a heck of a QB, but just don't lol. 

you're pretty bias here. The stats are there for all to see if you'd like to have a factual debate. Let me know.

 

This year is likely the biggest challenge for all QBs, not to mention a QB to a new team. His stats speak for themselves, so if you want to blatantly ignore them, feel free. But it's pretty silly. 

4 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I have he will be back as the Colt backup

Like I said above, I'd be perfectly OK with that. 

[AKB]

4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

but you're pretty bias here. The stats are there for all to see if you'd like to have a factual debate. Let me know.

 

This year is likely the biggest challenge for all QBs, not to mention a QB to a new team. His stats speak for themselves, so if you want to blatantly ignore them, feel free. But it's pretty silly. 

So we can talk about the lack of talent the bills have faced in the other thread, but we can't talk about the lack of talent rivers has faced? 

 

What about the fact he has lost to every single decent team except the Packers? Which Blackmon saved. He also almost lost to the 4-12 texans but the indy native saved us. 

 

Also, all opinions are biased. Including yours.

[AKB]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Our wins

 

Vikings - LOL

Jets - LOL 

Bengals - (decent win against burrow)

Lions (LOL)

 

Titans - our best win

Packers (Only strong opponent we beat outside of ten)

Raiders (average team that 17 is very familiar with)

 

And the Jags, the only team to get a single win.. against US. 

 

Where are the quality wins? There aren't any outside of GB and TEN. 

[danlhart87]

 

 

Posted this in other QB thread too but wanted to get input here too. 

 

I would be excited if this happened 

[AKB]

You know why it was so strange for the possibility of an 11-5 team to miss the playoffs? 

 

I will tell you why. Becuase we lost to every other team in the AFC that is also competing for playoff contention. 

 

Hmmm... 

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, AustinnKaine said:

Our wins

 

Vikings - LOL

Jets - LOL 

Bengals - (decent win against burrow)

Lions (LOL)

 

Titans - our best win

Packers (Only strong opponent we beat outside of ten)

Raiders (average team that 17 is very familiar with)

 

And the Jags, the only team to get a single win.. against US. 

 

Where are the quality wins? There aren't any outside of GB and TEN. 

Colts won the games they were supposed to which is why they made the playoffs.

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

Colts won the games they were supposed to which is why they made the playoffs.

 

 

[danlhart87]

3 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

You know why it was so strange for the possibility of an 11-5 team to miss the playoffs? 

 

I will tell you why. Becuase we lost to every other team in the AFC that is also competing for playoff contention. 

 

Hmmm... 

But they made it so enjoy the ride 

[AKB]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

Colts won the games they were supposed to which is why they made the playoffs.

 

 

Aren't they supposed to win each game? I mean kinda silly statement here. Obviously that isn't realistic, but this statement just doesn't relate. We also lost the ones were "supposed to" if you want to look at it that way.

 

Look, plain and simple, we beat the bad teams and lost to most of the good ones. And the fact remains that every team that we played, that made the playoffs, in the AFC, we lost to. 

[NewColtsFan]

24 minutes ago, Stephen said:

We would have leaned more on taylor if Eason started. The deep  passing  would be better  and he can do roll outs.

 

You've made several assumptions here....

 

1.   Eason is not ready to start.    Not even close.    That's why he's third string.

 

2.   And Taylor was slow to develop this year.    Not knocking the kid,  but we talked it here for the first half of the season.   There were lots of unhappy posters who trashed Taylor as just another back from Wisconsin.    A backfield of Taylor and Eason may be in our future,  but it wasn't ready for 2020.

[Tsarquise]

19 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

I don't trash Rivers just because I think that he isn't the best option. Trashing him would to say he is terrible, and to question his humanity. I have done none of those things. I have simply stated that in the clutch, he often makes the wrong reads. I have also stated that his throwing power is questionable.

 

However, his IQ is wonderful, and his ability to change the play at the line is something Jacoby and Eason don't have. People only notice the "negative" opinions, not the ones where I engage in other conversations about neutral or positive topics. 

I agree with some of what you have been saying, but not about how the Colts would be just as good with Brissett as they are with Rivers  or that the Rivers signing was pointless. You just answered why he is starting over Brissett and Eason, and why the acquisition of Rivers was necessary: it is because of his QB IQ. 

 

I think Rivers is the best option we have and way better than Brissett, but he can not be relied upon to take over the game. He is not going to cover up or offset the teams errors, and he is not clutch. He has also benefitted by playing a slew of weak pass defenses. When facing good pass defenses he has not played up to par.

 

Off the top of my head, we don't win the Bengals or Packers game with Brissett. I don't think we would win the Texans game at home with Brissett, either. 

 

Brissett has been given two opportunities in the form of two seasons to start, and he proved not to be very good. 

[PrincetonTiger]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Colts won the games they were supposed to which is why they made the playoffs.

 

 

So true

 

  during my playing and coaching days there were certain games were almost automatic Ls so this focus was always the other 5 or 6(we played a 8 or 9 game regular season)

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

So we can talk about the lack of talent the bills have faced in the other thread, but we can't talk about the lack of talent rivers has faced? 

 

What about the fact he has lost to every single decent team except the Packers? Which Blackmon saved. He also almost lost to the 4-12 texans but the indy native saved us. 

 

Also, all opinions are biased. Including yours. 

My opinion is primarily stats based, which I'm happy to have any debate on them. Bills have zero to do with this debate, so not sure why you're deflecting.

 

You seem to want to credit defense for wins, but zero for Rivers.

 

Here's some basic Colts stats....

 

Total O - 10th

Passing O - 11th

Rushing O - 11th

 

Total D - 8th 

Passing D - 20th

Rushing D - 2nd

 

If you want to use our SoS as an argument, what about our Passing D? They were easily the worst unit on team, and the unit you want to give credit to lol...  Our passing O was fine, and is ranked as such. Our passing D, not so much. But the team wins all games, with different units, or individuals stepping up at different times.

 

Texans almost beat TN this week.  Bot Texans/Titans games were less than a TD difference. It's a divisional game. What's your point? Rivers averaged 250+ against them, and threw 2 TDs in each game with zero INTs, and was 120ish passer rating in both..... You chose very badly for games to use as your argument.

[AKB]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

So true

 

  during my playing and coaching days there were certain games were almost automatic Ls so this focus was always the other 5 or 6(we played a 8 or 9 game regular season)

Did you coach in the NFL? I don't think this relates. The goal is to win each game,.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

My opinion is primarily stats based, which I'm happy to have any debate on them. Bills have zero to do with this debate, so not sure why you're deflecting.

 

You seem to want to credit defense for wins, but zero for Rivers.

 

Here's some basic Colts stats....

 

Total O - 10th

Passing O - 11th

Rushing O - 11th

 

Total D - 8th 

Passing D - 20th

Rushing D - 2nd

 

If you want to use our SoS as an argument, what about our Passing D? They were easily the worst unit on team, and the unit you want to give credit to lol...  Our passing O was fine, and is ranked as such. Our passing D, not so much. But the team wins all games, with different units, or individuals stepping up at different times.

 

Texans almost beat TN this week.  Bot Texans/Titans games were less than a TD difference. It's a divisional game. What's your point? Rivers averaged 250+ against them, and threw 2 TDs in each game with zero INTs, and was 120ish passer rating in both..... You chose very badly for games to use as your argument.

 

  Rivalry games of any kind are so tough

     No matter what sport the matchups between Princeton Community, Gibson Southern, and Wood Memorial are brutal

[AKB]

 

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

My opinion is primarily stats based, which I'm happy to have any debate on them. Bills have zero to do with this debate, so not sure why you're deflecting.

 

You seem to want to credit defense for wins, but zero for Rivers.

 

Here's some basic Colts stats....

 

Total O - 10th

Passing O - 11th

Rushing O - 11th

 

Total D - 8th 

Passing D - 20th

Rushing D - 2nd

 

If you want to use our SoS as an argument, what about our Passing D? They were easily the worst unit on team, and the unit you want to give credit to lol...  Our passing O was fine, and is ranked as such. Our passing D, not so much. But the team wins all games, with different units, or individuals stepping up at different times.

 

Texans almost beat TN this week.  Bot Texans/Titans games were less than a TD difference. It's a divisional game. What's your point? Rivers averaged 250+ against them, and threw 2 TDs in each game with zero INTs, and was 120ish passer rating in both..... You chose very badly for games to use as your argument.

Yeah but it is still an opinion. I can argue that the games where he did the best were against bad teams. Thus nullifying the statistics. Just take a look at the teams we beat, and look at the teams we lost to. I think that tells the best story. 

[NFLfan]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

if this is gonna become that kind of thread where people are offended this thread should be locked

 

my apologies 

 

Let's try to keep it civil. There is no reason to take shots at each other. 

[Stephen]

12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You've made several assumptions here....

 

1.   Eason is not ready to start.    Not even close.    That's why he's third string.

 

2.   And Taylor was slow to develop this year.    Not knocking the kid,  but we talked it here for the first half of the season.   There were lots of unhappy posters who trashed Taylor as just another back from Wisconsin.    A backfield of Taylor and Eason may be in our future,  but it wasn't ready for 2020.

Eason was not given the opportunity  due to two qbs making  way more than him on the roster

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

Yeah but it is still an opinion. I can argue that the games where he did the best were against bad teams. Thus nullifying the statistics. Just take a look at the teams we beat, and look at the teams we lost to. I think that tells the best story. 

No hard facts

[AKB]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

No hard facts

Sure, let me go get the stats from each game and post them here. I mean the Win loss is facts right? You say no facts?

 

Here's a fact:

 

We lost to the teams with good records

And we beat the teams with bad records 

 

The only exception is the Packers game, and the Ten game. And Ten won the most recent game. 

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Stephen said:

Eason was not given the opportunity  due to two qbs making  way more than him on the roster

Eason was always going to be a clipboard holder

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

Yeah but it is still an opinion. I can argue that the games where he did the best were against bad teams. Thus nullifying the statistics. Just take a look at the teams we beat, and look at the teams we lost to. I think that tells the best story. 

Bring on whatever facts/stats you want. 

 

You just used the Texans game as your argument. Heck, Rivers did very well those games. Our pass D in those games gave up an average 350 yards per game, yet you want to credit them???.... 

[PrincetonTiger]

Friendly Reminder from TigerTown  
   this thread is about the possible return  of PR not X,Y, and Z

 

[DontEverGiveUp]

Best wins

 

Colts: @CHI, @TEN, GB, @LV

Titans: BUF, CHI, @BAL, @IND

Ravens: CLE, @IND, @CLE

Browns: IND, @TEN, PIT (against the backups)

Dolphins: LAR, @ARI, @LV

 

Looks like we had as many quality wins as the teams we were battling with for a playoff spot.  It's rare to get more than a few quality wins, and if you do, you're likely a top seed like KC and BUF this year.

 

[AKB]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Bring on whatever facts/stats you want. 

 

You just used the Texans game as your argument. Heck, Rivers did very well those games. Our pass D in those games gave up an average 350 yards per game, yet you want to credit them???.... 

We play bend don't break.

 

Leonard said it himself,

 

He said "I don't give a damn about yards, long as they don't score" 

(His postgame interview, after the INDY native center for HOU fumbled the ball)

 

 

[DontEverGiveUp]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Friendly Reminder from TigerTown  
   this thread is about the possible return  of PR not X,Y, and Z

 

He's coming back

[AKB]

1 minute ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

Best wins

 

Colts: @CHI, @TEN, GB, @LV

Titans: BUF, CHI, @BAL, @IND

Ravens: CLE, @IND, @CLE

Browns: IND, @TEN, PIT (against the backups)

Dolphins: LAR, @ARI, @LV

 

Looks like we had as many quality wins as the teams we were battling with for a playoff spot.  It's rare to get more than a few quality wins, and if you do, you're likely a top seed like KC and BUF this year.

 

But we lost to the AFC playoff teams right? That's why we are in the 7th seed. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I mean we went 11-5 and made the playoffs what else more does anyone want? I guess 16-0 would do the trick. The Chiefs lost to the Raiders at full strength at KC, certain losses happen. I am so sick of hearing we only win because of a weak schedule or only beat bad teams. This happens in here every year. We have several quality wins being GB, at Tennessee, and at Chicago. Even though Houston finished 4-12 they arguably have a top 5 QB and we swept them and they are a tough rival. Lets enjoy the ride people. 

[DontEverGiveUp]

1 minute ago, AustinnKaine said:

But we lost to the AFC playoff teams right? That's why we are in the 7th seed. 

That is a factual statement.

 

Not sure what it has to do with my post/point though.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

He's coming back

I agree

   

[PrincetonTiger]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I mean we went 11-5 and made the playoffs what else more does anyone want? I guess 16-0 would do the trick. The Chiefs lost to the Raiders at full strength at KC, certain losses happen. I am so sick of hearing we only win because of a weak schedule or only beat bad teams. This happens in here every year. We have several quality wins being GB, at Tennessee, and at Chicago. Even though Houston finished 4-12 they arguably have a top 5 QB and we swept them and they are a tough rival. Lets enjoy the ride people. 

 

  Maybe the 72 Dolphins

 

     Shoo

Shout out to my fellow TriState Bob Griese

[AKB]

1 minute ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

That is a factual statement.

 

Not sure what it has to do with my post/point though.

Becuase you are saying we won the same amount of "good games" but we also lost to everyone else there that matters. So, it just kinda doens't matter.