What the hell was the second half D coverage?

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, colts8718 said:

Why even bother our  corners can not cover anyone plus no pass rush

The Kenny Moore PI was so baffling I was like WTH. At that point I knew we were in trouble. Horrible call.

[Hoose]

43 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

As far as the offense goes missing are two tackles hurt us in this game. How many times was Rivers sacked at least 5 and was pressured many times which caused some bad throws. I think at full strength this would have been a different game. 

This is a valid point. The pressure on Rivers in the 2nd half was consistent and brutal. The backups just couldn't stand up to it. 

Now, that said, why not adjust to the Steelers by running it early and often? And with changeups like sweeps etc. No adjustments. Truly none that I could see. Awful. 

[DougDew]

Our DBs are susceptible to the deep pass.  A very good chance they will get called for PI.  And we should usually have deep safety help, but they are often playing too close to the LOS when we get burned deep.

[throwing BBZ]

Ya sin was a better wrestler than he ever will be a CB. Unfortunately 

He is to slow.

[IinD]

This was the most frustrating part.

Up 10 going into the 4th I'd take ALL DAY against anyone, but we just totally melted down and looked confused, tired and inept.

 

I can't stand how much the Steelers * me off.

[coming on strong]

the problem is our corners are not good enough to play man coverage.    rhodes is elite in cover 2 or 3 but when he cant face the QB with help over the top he gets burnt .   Rock is the same way , kenny moore is the only good man coverage corner .    The whole defense is so dependent on the front 4 getting pressure when they don't its over .    Colts need to draft two starting man coverage corners to go along with moore .     Then they need a true number 1 pass rusher , the problem is with only buckner being at a pro bowl level teams can just double him and force our ends to beat them one on one .    With a chase young type pass rusher and two good man corners the defense would be elite .

[compuls1v3]

1 hour ago, superrep1967 said:

As far as the offense goes missing are two tackles hurt us in this game. How many times was Rivers sacked at least 5 and was pressured many times which caused some bad throws. I think at full strength this would have been a different game. 

Problem is down 3 tackles we still had a comfortable lead and the coaching squandered our lead....

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If that would've been Ju Ju with the game on the line, PI automatically. Ju Ju hasn't accomplished near what TY has in his career but because it is Pitt, it would've been a PI. I am convinced of that. Look I hate blaming the REFS, looks like I am whining but when the crap is obvious, time for me to speak up. If I was a coach I would say it in the post game and take the fine. Frank won't, he is too nice  . I am nice but not that nice when I think something is nonsense. The REFS in the 2005/2006 SB single handed gave the Steelers that SB vs Seattle. Anyone can google it and see how many people think that. They also cheated us in the 1995 Title Game, Stewart goes out of bounds comes back in and catches a TD. Bogus crap and obvious. The REFS are in love with the Steelers, maybe they get free steak dinners in Pittsburgh and massages from beautiful ladies before big games. Puzzles me but I always know when playing that team it is vs them and the REFS. Nobody will convince me otherwise. I have seen this for years is why.

 

You are 99% right. I too have been watching a long time and seen it over and over and am not a dumb dumb.

 

But the refs are not in love with the Steelers,  they are just doing their job, doing what they are told to. Just like they did for the cheaters for 15 years. 

The Steelers are liked by the league since the '70s. The Colts are opposite.

Most don't want to admit to sports corruption and blame bad refs,  stupid coaches, bad playcalling etc.... But it's a lot more to that.

[superrep1967]

1 hour ago, compuls1v3 said:

Problem is down 3 tackles we still had a comfortable lead and the coaching squandered our lead....

I actually agree with you Eberflus called that soft zone in the second half and any QB is going to pick us apart when we play that we were 5 yards off the receivers. And Reich kept passing when we needed to run the ball. 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, coming on strong said:

the problem is our corners are not good enough to play man coverage.    rhodes is elite in cover 2 or 3 but when he cant face the QB with help over the top he gets burnt .   Rock is the same way , kenny moore is the only good man coverage corner .    The whole defense is so dependent on the front 4 getting pressure when they don't its over .    Colts need to draft two starting man coverage corners to go along with moore .     Then they need a true number 1 pass rusher , the problem is with only buckner being at a pro bowl level teams can just double him and force our ends to beat them one on one .    With a chase young type pass rusher and two good man corners the defense would be elite .

This GM drafts for an antiquated defensive scheme and philosophy. I actually laughed when during the game when either Nantz oe Romo said Eberflus is in line for a head coaching job.  I use to b hard on Eberflus, but I have come to blame the talent and scheme more as the season progresses. The corners are total zone corners. He puts them in man situations and if the Dline dont get pressure, the dbs get torched. This causes Eberlus to go back to zone and the qbs then tends to pick the D apart. I truly beleive that Eberflus is hamstrung by the talent and scheme that he has been told to run. The D's performance this year against play off caliber teams has been horrendous. People call me negative....blah..blah blah.  I just never drank the cool aid and this defensive scheme needs to morph. Sin and Rhodes are not the answer. However, Ballard is intent on this Seattle scheme. If the front 4 doesnt get pressure,its over. This defense is way to dependant on 4 Dline constantly getting pressure. The only problem is that play off teams tend to have very good Olines. Its a simple defense to run so why is everyone so surprised when qbs are able to figure it out? Oh. Does anyone see a bright future in the D linemen that Ballard has drafted?  They have all been under whelming so far and our starting Dline is getting older.

[GoColts8818]

It looked like the second half of the Jags game to be honest but I am not sure what else they could have done.  When Willis went out they started getting beat deep sprinkle in some well timed questionable flags to go the Steelers way and the Colts had to stop the bleeding.  The Colts were getting zero pass rush and the secondary couldn’t hold up.  That’s a recipe for disaster vs a QB like Big Ben.  

[Defjamz26]

3 hours ago, a06cc said:

He’s been playing against some good WR’s. He has had some good plays. We can’t take that from him at all

He was drafted early in the 2nd round as a top 50 player. The expectation is that he should be able to cover good receivers. 
 

The 34th overall pick should in theory, be able to cover someone drafted 2 rounds later in Dionte Johnson. Not expecting him to lock up Adams, Julio, Thomas, etc... but he’s getting worked over by non-elite receivers. How many times are we going to boost someone else up to take up for Ya-Sin? He gets torched by Chark next week we gonna make Chark out to be DeAndre Hopkins?

[GoColts8818]

5 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

He was drafted early in the 2nd round as a top 50 player. The expectation is that he should be able to cover good receivers. 
 

The 34th overall pick should in theory, be able to cover someone drafted 2 rounds later in Dionte Johnson. Not expecting him to lock up Adams, Julio, Thomas, etc... but he’s getting worked over by non-elite receivers. How many times are we going to boost someone else up to take up for Ya-Sin? He gets torched by Chark next week we gonna make Chark out to be DeAndre Hopkins?

To put it another way look at the way Taylor and Pittman are performing and Leonard and Smith.  They were all taken in the same area of the draft as Rock.  Is Rock performing to their level?  IMO nope.  I just don’t think he fits this defense.  Maybe I’ll be wrong but he has a lot of growing to do in two years if he wants a second contract here.

[Defjamz26]

7 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

To put it another way look at the way Taylor and Pittman are performing and Leonard and Smith.  They were all taken in the same area of the draft as Rock.  Is Rock performing to their level?  IMO nope.  I just don’t think he fits this defense.  Maybe I’ll be wrong but he has a lot of growing to do in two years if he wants a second contract here.

Yeah I didn’t get why Ballard took a guy that everyone said would be good in a press man scheme and drafted him to be a zone corner.

 

And yes he’d have to make a huge leap. But people who work in thE NFL  usually say the biggest jump a player makes is from year 1 to year 2, so it already doesn’t look good for him. I just know that he can no longer be a starter going into next season. That was so disastrous it lead to him being benched against the Titans, an now having Carrie play more snaps than him.

[coltfaninnewyork]

Yea Rock is shaky but no pass rush can’t be beneficial to any corner in this league 

[Rolltide_gocolts]

Rock is a huge liability and he showed why he was benched.... every QB sees 26 and instantly knows to throw his way 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, Rolltide_gocolts said:

Rock is a huge liability and he showed why he was benched.... every QB sees 26 and instantly knows to throw his way 

Listened to one gm say it this morning. The Colts need to have an honest talk about their defensive philosophy. He compared them to a pitcher who has a 100 mile fast ball and nothing else. We need a pitcher with a fastball, curveball and slider lol. Take a look at our games this season against good offences. I have been preaching it all year. Its fools gold. Ps. I hope Wentz is available

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Listened to one gm say it this morning. The Colts need to have an honest talk about their defensive philosophy. He compared them to a pitcher who has a 100 mile fast ball and nothing else. We need a pitcher with a fastball, curveball and slider lol. Take a look at our games this season against good offences. I have been preaching it all year. Its fools gold. Ps. I hope Wentz is available

 

One question for each of the points you raised...

 

1. How many defenses in the NFL currently can shut down good offenses?

 

2. Why in the name of all that is good and holy would anyone want Wentz? Even with Rivers' age.

 

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, Colt.45 said:

 

One question for each of the points you raised...

 

1. How many defenses in the NFL currently can shut down good offenses?

 

2. Why in the name of all that is good and holy would anyone want Wentz? Even with Rivers' age.

 

It is an offensive league. I get it. This defence is archaic. If they employed a blitzing scheme and gave up chunk plays, I get. At least they r trying. However, to not disguise or do anything different is unacceptble. Rivers has performed admirably. However when ai watch him, he leaves plays in the field because of his lack of athleticism. He is beyond slow. I crave for a qb inside the red zone who is at least a threat to roll out. Like give me something.

[Mr.Debonair]

2 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

One question for each of the points you raised...

 

1. How many defenses in the NFL currently can shut down good offenses?

 

2. Why in the name of all that is good and holy would anyone want Wentz? Even with Rivers' age.

 

Ppl feel like Wentz would be a good option with a much improved online and familiarity with Reich and the offense. I believe he would be better here, by idk by how much. He holds the ball for a long time and ball security is questionable. I would go moreso for Dak if we were looking at options not names Rivers. 

[Colt.45]

5 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

It is an offensive league. I get it. This defence is archaic. If they employed a blitzing scheme and gave up chunk plays, I get. At least they r trying. However, to not disguise or do anything different is unacceptble. Rivers has performed admirably. However when ai watch him, he leaves plays in the field because of his lack of athleticism. He is beyond slow. I crave for a qb inside the red zone who is at least a threat to roll out. Like give me something.

Everything you say may be true but even after yesterday, they're still a top ten defense. So, the words of that NFC fella seem like....hot air. Like he's attacking the system or philosophy YET it's better than most others. We need a pass rush, it makes everything else better. The talk about the system, is just talk.

 

Rivers is slow but I'd take brains over brawn at that position ALL day. Sure it helps if a QB can run but if there's another Peyton in the draft and everyone (but us) passes on him because they're all looking for the next Lamar or Mahomes or Lawrence because those boys can all run, then I can assure you everyone who passes on that immobile galaxy brain will spend the next 15 years wishing they'd used their brains.

 

I need to rewatch the game but it feels like we lost because we had drive killers at the worst time. Penalties that kept getting us beyond the count. When you do that against a defense like PIT then yeah....your digging a hole that's tough for many QBs. Rivers needed to make one of those deeper throws from those situations and didn't. 

The difference yesterday was Big Ben (another slow QB) made that big throw to Diontae when he needed it and he forced the Colts defense to back out of their plan. Rivers needed to make one throw from 2nd and 18 and he couldn't.

[Colt.45]

15 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Ppl feel like Wentz would be a good option with a much improved online and familiarity with Reich and the offense. I believe he would be better here, by idk by how much. He holds the ball for a long time and ball security is questionable. I would go moreso for Dak if we were looking at options not names Rivers. 

Yeah I wouldn't touch Wentz. Rivers' strength has always been his mind. Always. It's ELITE. What exactly is Wentz's strength? That  he is tough? What exactly does he bring at an elite level?

[Myles]

38 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Everything you say may be true but even after yesterday, they're still a top ten defense. So, the words of that NFC fella seem like....hot air. Like he's attacking the system or philosophy YET it's better than most others. We need a pass rush, it makes everything else better. The talk about the system, is just talk.

 

Rivers is slow but I'd take brains over brawn at that position ALL day. Sure it helps if a QB can run but if there's another Peyton in the draft and everyone (but us) passes on him because they're all looking for the next Lamar or Mahomes or Lawrence because those boys can all run, then I can assure you everyone who passes on that immobile galaxy brain will spend the next 15 years wishing they'd used their brains.

 

I need to rewatch the game but it feels like we lost because we had drive killers at the worst time. Penalties that kept getting us beyond the count. When you do that against a defense like PIT then yeah....your digging a hole that's tough for many QBs. Rivers needed to make one of those deeper throws from those situations and didn't. 

The difference yesterday was Big Ben (another slow QB) made that big throw to Diontae when he needed it and he forced the Colts defense to back out of their plan. Rivers needed to make one throw from 2nd and 18 and he couldn't.

You cannot forget the refs influence in this game.

[superrep1967]

22 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Also, I remember hardly any pressure on Ben the entire game. 

We got a sack on him once. 

[Flash7]

The narrative is that we primarily went into soft zone coverage in the second half, but in reality, we continued to mix up the coverage.

 

1. Rock was beat in man coverage because he fell for a slo-go. The safeties had other responsibilities and did not come over to help, and Rock trailed the receiver the entire time. He got beat for a long TD, sparking the comeback for the Steelers.

 

2. When the Colts played man defense, The Steelers ran from bunch formations or Ben immediately threw the ball to the RB out of the backfield. Each time it resulted in at least 8 yards, putting them in great down and distance, and putting the Colts defense in a bad spot.

 

3. Because the Steelers scored so fast and we showed that we could not keep up in man coverage, Flus changed the coverage to zone. Big Ben saw this and on the next drive, he pump faked to his receiver running a 10-yard in, which made the Colts safety, T. Wilson, who was in coverage over-the-top on that side freeze, allowing the Steelers other receiver to get over the top of him in the end zone. On both occasions, the Steelers made the better play. Big Ben was in control and accurate, mainly because there was absolutely no pressure on him.

 

The bottom line is that the Steelers had an answer for whatever we decided to do -- man or zone coverage. And the Colts continued their trend of untimely penalties to bail out the other team.

[Nickster]

22 hours ago, a06cc said:

We need a corner. I’ve been saying it since the start of the season. Was called a fool once the defense wasn’t playing against a good QB. We had a weak schedule until after the bye week. The weakness on 3rd down has always been there. If we had a CB you’d see more creativity 

I thought Rock would be ok but he’s not and Carrie isn’t good enough either.

21 hours ago, DougDew said:

Our DBs are susceptible to the deep pass.  A very good chance they will get called for PI.  And we should usually have deep safety help, but they are often playing too close to the LOS when we get burned deep.

That’s what Hooker is good at.  Blackmon hasn’t done to well the last few. 
 

[chad72]

9 minutes ago, Myles said:

You cannot forget the refs influence in this game.

 

I think the NFL wants a Chiefs vs Steelers AFCCG. The Ravens might ruin it and go on a revenge tour and take out the Titans and Chiefs leading to a Steelers vs Ravens AFCCG and Steelers SB berth.

[Myles]

I don't think the refs were going off of instruction from the NFL.  I think they just give certain teems preferential treatment.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Part of the collapse was Wilson was so bad when Willis went out. I would of liked to have seen Odum play. He seems to always come up with a big play.

[Colt.45]

29 minutes ago, Myles said:

You cannot forget the refs influence in this game.

For sure, the calls they made turned the game...

That said, in the first half, there was a point when i said "wow, Indy is getting all the calls". I didnt question whether it was right or wrong, it was just a feeling that the flags were finally falling our way for once. That went away in the 2nd half of course.

 

The refs had an influence but i bet if you go back and rewatch, the game turned on probably 4/5 plays, and i bet those were not ref issues.

 

That play Hines made that got called back? {the one When we should have gone up 28-7 and dusted the game (i believed they could come back from 21-7 but never felt they'd come back from 3 scores)} Well, did Glowinski push or not? He definitely did, and there was ZERO need for him to do that. Sure, we can also point out a hold on the same play, we can point out inconsistent reffing but that play bugged me. Glow didnt need to 'finish' there, it was a mental breakdown. It's the obvious one i remember BUT i'm willing to bet that if i rewatch the game, we had 3 or 4 more mental lapses like that which lost us the game. Ben had 240yds passing in the 2nd half. We messed up, that's not just on refs. We didnt make a single game turning play, that's a mental issue.

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, Nickster said:

I thought Rock would be ok but he’s not and Carrie isn’t good enough either.

That’s what Hooker is good at.  Blackmon hasn’t done to well the last few. 
 

Hooker was only good at it when he lined up deep.  Last year, he got burnt deep many times, mainly when he had to line up closer to the LOS to perform the other important jobs a safety has to perform.  Blackmon is making other plays, well, until he hit the wall.

 

Get another Blackmon and a Mike that can actually cover and we'll be fine, IMO.  Maybe that other S is Tell.

 

IMO, RYS is a fine zone corner.  We need a better Mike than we need a better corner.  JMO.

[The Fish]

Thinking about how that second half went down, it hit me (and I see some have noted it).. Malik Hooker was missed. His game would have helped Sunday.

[shasta519]

44 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Thinking about how that second half went down, it hit me (and I see some have noted it).. Malik Hooker was missed. His game would have helped Sunday.

 

Hooker would have definitely helped. I am old enough to remember people were calling Blackmon a superstar and penciling him in for DROY because he made a couple INTs...with some even comparing him to Leonard lol. 

 

Definitely a promising player...but I don't think Blackmon has gotten his hand on a pass in 9 games...is sporting a 15.9% missed tackle rate (has 7 of them)...a 104 passer rating against...and a 60.4 PFF grade.

 

Hopefully it's just a rookie wall...but this is also why NFL teams need 4-5 good Ss.

[shasta519]

18 hours ago, DougDew said:

Hooker was only good at it when he lined up deep.  Last year, he got burnt deep many times, mainly when he had to line up closer to the LOS to perform the other important jobs a safety has to perform.  Blackmon is making other plays, well, until he hit the wall.

 

Get another Blackmon and a Mike that can actually cover and we'll be fine, IMO.  Maybe that other S is Tell.

 

IMO, RYS is a fine zone corner.  We need a better Mike than we need a better corner.  JMO.

 

I agree re: getting a better MIKE. Colts starting two MLBs have <50 PFF grades. Walker should walk...and Okereke needs to make a big leap next year (like the one we had hoped for this season)...but I don't think they can bank on it. I expect Ballard to bring in competition.

 

I think they also need another/better Mike (Pittman). He has been solid for a rookie...so I hope he can make a big leap in production in year two...but I still see a WR2 going forward. 

 

The TE depth chart also needs to be mostly rebuilt...especially since they refuse to see what they have in MAC.

 

Still lots of work to do. 

 

[compuls1v3]

On 12/28/2020 at 1:32 PM, Flash7 said:

The narrative is that we primarily went into soft zone coverage in the second half, but in reality, we continued to mix up the coverage.

 

1. Rock was beat in man coverage because he fell for a slo-go. The safeties had other responsibilities and did not come over to help, and Rock trailed the receiver the entire time. He got beat for a long TD, sparking the comeback for the Steelers.

 

2. When the Colts played man defense, The Steelers ran from bunch formations or Ben immediately threw the ball to the RB out of the backfield. Each time it resulted in at least 8 yards, putting them in great down and distance, and putting the Colts defense in a bad spot.

 

3. Because the Steelers scored so fast and we showed that we could not keep up in man coverage, Flus changed the coverage to zone. Big Ben saw this and on the next drive, he pump faked to his receiver running a 10-yard in, which made the Colts safety, T. Wilson, who was in coverage over-the-top on that side freeze, allowing the Steelers other receiver to get over the top of him in the end zone. On both occasions, the Steelers made the better play. Big Ben was in control and accurate, mainly because there was absolutely no pressure on him.

 

The bottom line is that the Steelers had an answer for whatever we decided to do -- man or zone coverage. And the Colts continued their trend of untimely penalties to bail out the other team.

I'll also add that the few blitzes we had were terrible, and they didn't get Ben off his spot. 

[compuls1v3]

On 12/28/2020 at 4:52 PM, DougDew said:

Hooker was only good at it when he lined up deep.  Last year, he got burnt deep many times, mainly when he had to line up closer to the LOS to perform the other important jobs a safety has to perform.  Blackmon is making other plays, well, until he hit the wall.

 

Get another Blackmon and a Mike that can actually cover and we'll be fine, IMO.  Maybe that other S is Tell.

 

IMO, RYS is a fine zone corner.  We need a better Mike than we need a better corner.  JMO.

Do we ever play press coverage?  I'd love to see us blitz while bottling up the receivers.

[jmac_48]

Somebody on the Colts sidelines forgot:

 

RUN THE DAMN BALL!!!

[Thunderbolt]

Watching this team get out coached every weekend is getting old. Need some new blood. Dennis Allen from the Saints might be available. He's transformed their defense into one of the top defenses in the league. Go get him Ballard!

[DougDew]

22 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

I agree re: getting a better MIKE. Colts starting two MLBs have <50 PFF grades. Walker should walk...and Okereke needs to make a big leap next year (like the one we had hoped for this season)...but I don't think they can bank on it. I expect Ballard to bring in competition.

 

I think they also need another/better Mike (Pittman). He has been solid for a rookie...so I hope he can make a big leap in production in year two...but I still see a WR2 going forward. 

 

The TE depth chart also needs to be mostly rebuilt...especially since they refuse to see what they have in MAC.

 

Still lots of work to do. 

 

Yeah.  I didn't realize those grades were that bad.

 

I say that we should only play 2 LBers at most. 

 

Get another rangy Leonard type, (not quite as good obviously, not enough capital) then get a beefier version of Blackmon to play sort of a rover middle field player.  Deeper than a MIKE but shallower than a S.  But I'm not an Xs and Os guy.  There are all kinds of smallish LBers in college that would project well to a box/intermediate NFL S, IMO. 

[shasta519]

22 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yeah.  I didn't realize those grades were that bad.

 

I say that we should only play 2 LBers at most. 

 

Get another rangy Leonard type, (not quite as good obviously, not enough capital) then get a beefier version of Blackmon to play sort of a rover middle field player.  Deeper than a MIKE but shallower than a S.  But I'm not an Xs and Os guy.  There are all kinds of smallish LBers in college that would project well to a box/intermediate NFL S, IMO. 

 

A healthy version of the next Derwin James would suffice haha.

 

Yeah...two LBs would be ideal...unless they had 3 Leonards on their team...but no team really has that. I have always thought that the 3rd LB should be a S or CB (depending on down and distance). But to truly run big nickel...you need to have 3 good Ss...and some legit depth.

 

I think they saw a lot of similarities between Leonard and Okereke...athletic, rangy with long arms. Unfortunately...he hasn't really taken that leap yet...but I think it's his spot to lose next year. Ballard should still look at bringing in some competition though because I don't see Walker returning (unless his market isn't there).