Rivers not clutch / is terrible (merge)

[MCurtis32]

I would say Rivers is doing pretty good right now. Hell, he is in his 40's has a bad foot, and both tackles are out.

Don't forget about what it was like to have Brissett under center full time. He was almost half river's age, had a great offensive line and running game.

Blame the coaches for this loss. No adjustments on defense or offense. Hard to beat the refs if you get out coached. Two decent drives with short field goals would have finished them off. Why didn't Taylor and the other runners get more touches?

I personally like Riech and the coaching staff up to a point. I would love to hear why the play calling don't seem to match the situations in the ball game. 

Why cant the defense play two halves and nullify the ref involvement?  Rivers will be ok. How about suiting up Eason in the mean time. There probably will be no preseason next year either. So when will they kick the tires on Eason, After Rivers retires and they have to scramble to find a known replacement?

[HoosierHero]

19 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

You can blame Phil all you want but Riech had him throwing the ball to start the second half when up two scores when we could have kept running JT. Frank botched period.

Actually he did call runs, but they were in base defense so those runs were checked to passes seconds before the snap. 

[The Fish]

Rivers is a whole lot better than JB and certainly isn't terrible. That was my criteria when I thought bringing in Rivers was a likely option, last FA. 

He is who he is though. It blows my mind he's a 4k passer who's got career stats on par with Marino.

 

 

[chad72]

20 minutes ago, HoosierHero said:

Actually he did call runs, but they were in base defense so those runs were checked to passes seconds before the snap. 

 

I am fine with checking out to passes but I do not see us calling enough comeback routes and dig routes we used to see with Peyton. Is it route running, separation or the fact that Rivers cannot zip it to the sidelines? I am thinking it is play design.

 

 

[lollygagger8]

I'm not a Rivers fan, but they did not help him out at all. Where were the slants, play action, and quick throws (esp in the 2nd half) to help him with backup tackles in the game? Or for that matter, why did they barely ever chip DE's with TE's???! Everyone in the league knows Rivers is a statue, so game plan around that fact. Asinine not to. 

 

I'd like to see Sirianni take over play calling. I've actually been wanting that from the beginning of the year. Frank's in-game adjustments are non-existent. Also, abandoning the run in the 2nd half is horrendously inexcusable. 

 

I've heard and read many times that the first 15 offensive plays of the game are scripted. That's when the team looks like they are a great offense. If Reich can't call the correct calls after those 15, why is he the one calling the plays in the first place? 

[coming on strong]

21 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

This game was on Reich period. You have a 17 pt lead and you come out throwing with backup tackles. He is terrible understanding where the game is at. He put rivers in a bad situation.

He only ran Taylor like 2 times after the first drive after halftime . He turned the game into Big Ben rivers shoot out .    

[John Waylon]

14 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

I'm not a Rivers fan, but they did not help him out at all. Where were the slants, play action, and quick throws (esp in the 2nd half) to help him with backup tackles in the game? Or for that matter, why did they barely ever chip DE's with TE's???! Everyone in the league knows Rivers is a statue, so game plan around that fact. Asinine not to. 

 

I'd like to see Sirianni take over play calling. I've actually been wanting that from the beginning of the year. Frank's in-game adjustments are non-existent. Also, abandoning the run in the 2nd half is horrendously inexcusable. 

 

I've heard and read many times that the first 15 offensive plays of the game are scripted. That's when the team looks like they are a great offense. If Reich can't call the correct calls after those 15, why is he the one calling the plays in the first place? 

It all goes back to this team not having an identity. Yesterday was the perfect example. We racked up what should have been an insurmountable lead. When it came time for us to just play our offense and keep the game that way we literally rolled over and just died. They adjusted and stopped what we’d been doing in the first half. Fine. That’s what (at least in theory) happens when you roll a team in the first half. But you should still be able to have a plan in place to get you to the end of the game. We never do. We just continually try to make it up as we go, and when it doesn’t work suddenly WE’RE the ones on the ropes and literally no lead is safe. 
 

It’s a very haphazard formula for success, and I’m not a fan of it at all. 

[TimetobringDfence!]

1 hour ago, HoosierHero said:

Actually he did call runs, but they were in base defense so those runs were checked to passes seconds before the snap. 

Well then Rivers messed up, he could have at least made sure they could stop the run before going to passing.

Just now, TimetobringDfence! said:

Well then Rivers messed up, he could have at least made sure they could stop the run before going to passing.

JT can handle a stacked box did on the goal line. 2 and 8 is better than a sack.

[John Waylon]

54 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Rivers is a whole lot better than JB and certainly isn't terrible. That was my criteria when I thought bringing in Rivers was a likely option, last FA. 

He is who he is though. It blows my mind he's a 4k passer who's got career stats on par with Marino.

 

 

Oh no. You can’t make this argument. 
 

When you point out that Rivers is a guy who can throw for 4K and still not do anything for your Super Bowl chances, and the fact that he’s as high on the stats lists as he is is because he’s had longer seasons than a lot of the greats, and he’s been durable enough to play as many years as he has they get mad and tell you you’re just a hater and Rivers is one of the greatest of all time. 

 

Trust me. I’ve heard alllllllllllll about it. 

[Colt.45]

5 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

The lack of pass rush the second half didn't help the secondary either. I've all areas of the team do great but never in sync or for the whole 60 mins. Coaches got to stick what's working and make better adjustments when it's not. We have a talented team being utilized wrong.

Word. We have a talented team that's 10-5, and have been in every single game (including losses) save for the Titans payback blowout.

 

An upgrade at QB could easily see this being a one or two loss team. The coaches have been pretty good for the most part so i wouldn't argue utility. Yesterday they had a great plan i.e. force PIT to play the deep game. They were up 21-7 (should have been 28 if not for Glowinski....and the refs). My major qualm was there wasn't a plan B. Once PIT reacted and started hitting deep, we had nothing on defense. No pass rush, nothing. This team will likely make the playoffs, and if they dont solve that pass defense, they'll be out of the playoffs before the seat even gets warm.

[Lancer1]

25 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Oh no. You can’t make this argument. 
 

When you point out that Rivers is a guy who can throw for 4K and still not do anything for your Super Bowl chances, and the fact that he’s as high on the stats lists as he is is because he’s had longer seasons than a lot of the greats, and he’s been durable enough to play as many years as he has they get mad and tell you you’re just a hater and Rivers is one of the greatest of all time. 

 

Trust me. I’ve heard alllllllllllll about it. 

Philip Rivers has the Colts on the cusp of a postseason berth, and possibly even a divisional title & home playoff game and either one would do wonders for our Superbowl chances.

 

He’s pretty high on the stats lists, but not simply because of his longevity – Dan Marino, with whom he’s tied with (until the next game) for #5 All Time in touchdown passes, had a 17 year Hall of Fame career. Philip is currently in his 16th season, but lest we forget, he rode the pine behind Drew Brees for 2 seasons so he’s basically put up all of his impressive stats in only 14 seasons of playing, including this one.

 

No, I’m not mad or anything, but yes, Philip Rivers is one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, and likely a 1st ballot Hall of Famer even if he never takes another snap.

[jbaron04]

20 hours ago, w87r said:

It's mind boggling at times for sure.

 

I know Rivers audibled out a few times too.

We was running football so well but frank kept going for deep five step drops plays instead of the short passing game , screens to slow the rush down  and keep pounding the ball. Nope lefts throw it 3 strait time 3 series in a row and give up sacks 

[WalkerPercy]

9 hours ago, John Waylon said:

Oh no. You can’t make this argument. 
 

When you point out that Rivers is a guy who can throw for 4K and still not do anything for your Super Bowl chances, and the fact that he’s as high on the stats lists as he is is because he’s had longer seasons than a lot of the greats, and he’s been durable enough to play as many years as he has they get mad and tell you you’re just a hater and Rivers is one of the greatest of all time. 

 

Trust me. I’ve heard alllllllllllll about it. 

That’s just wrong Dude.  Look at the records.  All the other top 5-10 guys have played as long or longer than Rivers.  Some several years longer (Brees, Brady, 

[WalkerPercy]

 Favre and Marino).  His win percentage, turnovers, etc. is consistent with all the greats. So knock him for his Super Bowl absence (which I would attribute to a sorry, loser organization) but don’t knock his records as they were well earned.  It’s sad Colts fan can’t see the good through all the hate.  I think he may make some noise if they make the playoffs.  We’ll see.  

[James]

7 minutes ago, WalkerPercy said:

 Favre and Marino).  His win percentage, turnovers, etc. is consistent with all the greats. So knock him for his Super Bowl absence (which I would attribute to a sorry, loser organization) but don’t knock his records as they were well earned.  It’s sad Colts fan can’t see the good through all the hate.  I think he may make some noise if they make the playoffs.  We’ll see.  

Rivers looks so mediocre compared to the top dogs.

 

Look at that Josh Allen. Now that’s a quarterback.

[WalkerPercy]

5 minutes ago, James said:

Rivers looks so mediocre compared to the top dogs.

 

Look at that Josh Allen. Now that’s a quarterback.

facts are facts and production is production.  You must not like his throwing motion and wins.  Josh Allen has been good for 1 year.

 

 

Mod Edit:

[NFLfan]

3 minutes ago, James said:

Rivers looks so mediocre compared to the top dogs.

 

Look at that Josh Allen. Now that’s a quarterback.

 

Rivers was once even better than Josh Allen. 

[James]

2 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Rivers was once even better than Josh Allen. 

Okay?
 

And that is relevant in 2020 how? 

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, James said:

Okay?
 

And that is relevant in 2020 how? 

Stop acting like Rivers is garbage! He's had a pretty solid year thus far even playing better than 2019 with Chargers 

 

He's split his interceptions in half this year. He's not top 5 but certainly top 15.

 

We could always have Cam Newton...

34 yards passing tonight 

 

[Four2itus]

This thread is hilarious. However, I have come to realize that for some fans, it's about blame and finger pointing. No loss....and I mean NO LOSS, can be experienced without having to single out why that loss occurred. Never, and I repeat never, can it be because the other team just did things better. No......it has to be because the team that you risked your very fandom for, FAILED.

 

THEY MUST PAY WITH BLAME!! 

 

 

 

Lol......I cracked up just typing this. 

[WalkerPercy]

5 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

This thread is hilarious. However, I have come to realize that for some fans, it's about blame and finger pointing. No loss....and I mean NO LOSS, can be experienced without having to single out why that loss occurred. Never, and I repeat never, can it be because the other team just did things better. No......it has to be because the team that you risked your very fandom for, FAILED.

 

THEY MUST PAY WITH BLAME!! 

 

 

 

Lol......I cracked up just typing this. 

Word.  You know football and are 100% right.  Enjoy the good times.....they’re hard to come by

[danlhart87]

Why do you keep putting Henry in QB discussion

 

You can't judge Eason yet

Nobody can

[danlhart87]

BTW In my honest opinion I think the Colts bring back Rivers 1 more year and the starter in 22 is Jones Trask or Lance 

[James]

11 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Why do you keep putting Henry in QB discussion

You can't judge Eason yet

Nobody can

Just to indicate that Henry is that good.

But I like the fact that that’s the one thing you focus on. I could leave Tannehill there alone and he’d still have more future than Rivers? Get the point now? Would have thought the rest of the list was enough.

 

Rest of the post still stands, and Eason’s lack of mobility won’t win him a place in the modern NFL. That’s not his only flaw though. We need long term answer to be a force in the AFC - otherwise we’re wasting years.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I have nothing personal against the OP but I don't like the title of this thread. Rivers isn't terrible that is so wrong. He has had a good season in reality. Saying he struggles in the clutch, I can buy that but saying he is a terrible QB is inaccurate. 

[danlhart87]

19 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

BTW In my honest opinion I think the Colts bring back Rivers 1 more year and the starter in 22 is Jones Trask or Lance 

You must have missed this 

[coltsva]

5 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

Stop acting like Rivers is garbage! He's had a pretty solid year thus far even playing better than 2019 with Chargers 

 

He's split his interceptions in half this year. He's not top 5 but certainly top 15.

 

We could always have Cam Newton...

34 yards passing tonight 

 

Now there's a realty check!

 

I'm not a Rivers fan, but he's done well this season. Much better than I expected (see "eat crow" thread). I don't think it was possible for us to sign anyone better than Rivers last year, and he's worked out fine. You don't go 11-5 with garbage QB play. Having said that, I'm not really thrilled with bringing Rivers back. Although, he may once again be the best option. The thing I, and I think most Colts fans want to see for next year, is that our QB of the future is at least on the roster. Right now, with JB as the backup, it's hard to know what they think of Eason. 

[Luck is Good]

Rivers isn’t the reason the Colts lost Sunday. It was on Frank. I like Frank but that won’t stop me from calling him out when necessary. What got his team the 24-7 lead? Running the football. What lost his team the lead? Not running the football. Pretty simple formula

[Air2theThrown]

On 12/27/2020 at 4:24 PM, StatesmanN said:

I don't see how you have him as your qb next year if you want to take the next step. 

 

I tend to agree with this assessment. I think he holds the franchise back and will be the reason the Colts won’t go far. 
 

So that begs to question how can Indy find a QB to get them over the hump. They will be drafting too low to have a real chance at a difference making QB so that means they will need to trade up or look to FA. I’m not sure the Colts have enough ammo to move up high enough to get a top shelf QB. So I’m think FA (free agency) or a trade is the best bet. 
 

So what QB in FA or by trade is a viable option. 
 

Matt Stafford comes to mind in my book. 
 

Who can Indy go after and what do you think the cost would be to get them? 

[shasta519]

11 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

Rivers was once even better than Josh Allen. 

 

That's debatable...if we are just talking about Allen this season. Obviously we don't know how Allen will play for the next several seasons. But Rivers has never had a QBR above 80...like Allen does this year. The season Allen is having (as a passer) is as good (if not arguably better) than peak Rivers...and that's before you factor in the added value from his rushing ability.

[Lancer1]

5 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

That's debatable...if we are just talking about Allen this season. Obviously we don't know how Allen will play for the next several seasons. But Rivers has never had a QBR above 80...like Allen does this year. The season Allen is having (as a passer) is as good (if not arguably better) than peak Rivers...and that's before you factor in the added value from his rushing ability.

Are you talking for an entire season or game to game because Philip had a QBR of 84.1 two weeks ago against the Raiders.

[shasta519]

11 hours ago, James said:

Just to indicate that Henry is that good.

But I like the fact that that’s the one thing you focus on. I could leave Tannehill there alone and he’d still have more future than Rivers? Get the point now? Would have thought the rest of the list was enough.

 

Rest of the post still stands, and Eason’s lack of mobility won’t win him a place in the modern NFL. That’s not his only flaw though. We need long term answer to be a force in the AFC - otherwise we’re wasting years.

 

Rivers is definitely not terrible...and has been a very good stopgap for this team (especially given what was available and that there wasn't a preseason). But it's very difficult for me to envision him making a deep playoff run...let alone winning a SB.

 

Offense is king...and the best NFL offenses have mobile QBs (or Aaron Rodgers...who is more mobile than statue at this point in his career). A QB like Rivers (or even Brady at this point) will become a liability in the playoffs...if the opposing DL can get pressure.

 

Mobility should be a requisite for the Colts QB. If Eason truly isn't mobile...then I hope the Colts draft one to develop for a year. That's the only real scenario where I truly like Rivers as the starter next year...if it's to mentor someone like Wilson or Lance.

 

I stand by my prediction...that Rivers/Eason as the 1-2 next season is not going to happen. What they do this offseason has to set them up for long-term success...and I think Ballard is going to get aggressive or creative (in the draft or via trade) this offseason. 

[shasta519]

15 minutes ago, Lancer1 said:

Are you talking for an entire season or game to game because Philip had a QBR of 84.1 two weeks ago against the Raiders.

 

For an entire season. No doubt Rivers has had many games above 80.

 

But Allen's 2020 season is actually higher rated (based on that stat) than peak Rivers...which is pretty incredible for Allen. It's tough to compare eras...but I was just pointing that cumulative stat out to say that it's tough to definitely say Rivers (even at his peak) was a better QB than 2020 Allen. And that's not even a knock...Allen is having an MVP season but likely won't finish higher than 3rd in voting (because of Mahomes and Rodgers). 

[Zoltan]

Didn't think this deserved it's own topic because it involves Rivers but, I saw this stat/quote on NFL website and it kind of sums up what I thought about rivers.

 

"Indianapolis is now 1-3 when Philip Rivers is pressured on more than 23 percent of his dropbacks. As good as the Colts' offensive line is, the team would benefit from having a quarterback who didn't leave them such a small margin for error."

 

Basically Rivers is still a great QB but his lack of mobility has made the offensive line have to play very well and frankly we can't win against a team that has a great pass rush. All season when he has a clean pocket you can't argue with his results but with a little bit of pressure the whole offense comes to a stop (not counting his turf toe which exacerbates the immobility) and I think that's why we lost. We can't make certain adjustments against good pass rushers that other teams can like moving around in the pocket or have rollouts. You don't have to be a scrambler in todays NFL but you have to be able to move around.

[EastStreet]

Some of this is pretty silly

• Pitt is the 2nd best pass defense in the league, and only gives up 196 yards per game
• Pitt blitzes 41% of the time, 2nd most in the league
• Pitt leads the league in INTs, more than 1 per game
• Pitt leads the league in sacks
• Pitt leads the league in total QB pressures, and also QB knockdowns.
• Pitt leads the league in lowest QB Rating allowed
• Pitt leads the league in lowest completion % allowed
• Pitt is 2nd in the league in points allowed (19.2)

Rivers is bad? He had a higher passer rating, yards/game, and completion % than Pitt's AVG allowed. And...... He had two fill-ins at offensive tackles going against the leading sack/knockdown/pressure team in the league.

 

The O (and Rivers) did their job. They scored 24 points, which is 5 more than the average do against Pitt, and did it on the road.

 

If you want to blame anything, blame the D or 2nd half O play calling. The Pass D gave up 342 passing yards and 3 TDs. The second half play calling was anemic, to not run Taylor more is unacceptable. I don't want to hear about Rivers checking out of plays. If you are serious about running, you don't line up 3 wide so much. The plays Rivers checked out of was due to the D looks they gave on 3 wide sets. The coach calls the sets. 

 

 

 

[Lancer1]

7 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

For an entire season. No doubt Rivers has had many games above 80.

 

But Allen's 2020 season is actually higher rated (based on that stat) than peak Rivers...which is pretty incredible for Allen. It's tough to compare eras...but I was just pointing that cumulative stat out to say that it's tough to definitely say Rivers (even at his peak) was a better QB than 2020 Allen. And that's not even a knock...Allen is having an MVP season but likely won't finish higher than 3rd in voting (because of Mahomes and Rodgers). 

Josh Allen is having a terrific season in this, his 3rd year with as mentioned before, a QBR over 80. It's a sharp & sudden jump from last year when it was 47.9, and his rookie year when it was 49.8 in his 12 games played.

 

Philip has a career average QBR of 69.5 over his 15 seasons of play, to include this one. He's had a season high QBR of 76.9, and a low of 42.6 but all in all he's had a steady, very productive Hall of Fame caliber career.

[NFLfan]

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

That's debatable...if we are just talking about Allen this season. Obviously we don't know how Allen will play for the next several seasons. But Rivers has never had a QBR above 80...like Allen does this year. The season Allen is having (as a passer) is as good (if not arguably better) than peak Rivers...and that's before you factor in the added value from his rushing ability.

 

QBR -- Is that the ESPN metric? Was it even being used when Rivers was Allen's age. 

 

Allen has greatly improved. He has played really well. I think Diggs has helped a lot. Both could be MVPs.

 

Rivers is not what he used to be but he had been an excellent player. I would have loved him to play for my team. 

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

QBR -- Is that the ESPN metric? Was it even being used when Rivers was Allen's age. 

 

Allen has greatly improved. He has played really well. I think Diggs has helped a lot. Both could be MVPs.

 

Rivers is not what he used to be but he had been an excellent player. I would have loved him to play for my team. 

QBR records go back to 2006

Rivers only has 5 years with a better QBR than 2020. 

He's definitely playing well this year by just about ever metric.

[danlhart87]

He's not elite but he's certainly not terrible 

[DontEverGiveUp]

7 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

For an entire season. No doubt Rivers has had many games above 80.

 

But Allen's 2020 season is actually higher rated (based on that stat) than peak Rivers...which is pretty incredible for Allen. It's tough to compare eras...but I was just pointing that cumulative stat out to say that it's tough to definitely say Rivers (even at his peak) was a better QB than 2020 Allen. And that's not even a knock...Allen is having an MVP season but likely won't finish higher than 3rd in voting (because of Mahomes and Rodgers). 

ESPN's Total QBR isn't a stat.  It is a subjective grade.