interesting Rivers article from HorseShoeHeroes

[CurBeatElite]

Philip Rivers' amazing season outshining Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck (horseshoeheroes.com) https://horseshoeheroes.com/2020/12/21/colts-philip-rivers-vs-peyton-manning-andrew-luck/?a_aid=44511&fbclid=IwAR1gFfAFxSzKC4qYLEgdFmo36SgpUJDEhLPq6ZyRc3_EbVzc0FFi5q11aF4

 

Pretty darn impressive.  Rivers made a few very dumb mistakes earlier this year, but has really cut them down as of late.  I can't help but wonder if that's in part due to him starting to trust his defense a little bit, in part of him being shocked that he isn't getting sacked 4+ times per game, etc.   I always felt a lot of Luck and Manning mistakes came from them thinking they literally had to carry the team on their shoulders, whereas, I think Ballard had a goal (he expressed it directly very early) to want to have a team where the QB had to play good/great football, but not do everything to win.  This is the first time in Rivers' career (and the first time in a while I can remember as a Colts fan) where the QB probably doesn't have to make dumb mistakes or force throws, knowing they can have some trust in the D if the O has to punt (i.e., a punt to win a field position battle is better than risking a throw on 3rd down knowing your D is going to get scored on with a long or short field).  

[Myles]

I find the article pretty dumb.   They use the stats for this year for Rivers and compare them to Manning and Luck's career numbers.   At 10-4, the Colts are having a very good season but they may not even make the playoffs.   Manning made the playoffs in 9 consecutive seasons and Luck for 3.  

This article should be titled something like:

This solid team is what Rivers needed.

[Shepman]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

I find the article pretty dumb.   They use the stats for this year for Rivers and compare them to Manning and Luck's career numbers.   At 10-4, the Colts are having a very good season but they may not even make the playoffs.   Manning made the playoffs in 9 consecutive seasons and Luck for 3.  

This article should be titled something like:

This solid team is what Rivers needed.

AFC South was also horrible then and Jax remains the same.

[Smoke317]

The article is comparing this one Rivers season to career numbers for Luck & Manning.  Why not compare the best season from each to this season for Rivers?  Don’t include their down years when they were carrying the worst teams in the league (both were the #1 overall pick) to Rivers (a seasoned veteran) joining a team built to win now.

 

Also, you make it seem like Manning & Luck won every game 38 to 37 because their defenses couldn’t stop anybody and they always had to do everything in order to win.  That’s just not true.  Peyton had Edge & Tony Dungy to lean on and provide some balance. Luck probably played hero ball the most because he never had a running back or OLine or a coach like Dungy or Reich to really stress better ball control.

And Rivers played with LT, one of the greatest running backs of all time & Antonio Gates (another all time great).  This isn’t his first time not having to play hero ball.  Just two years ago the Chargers were one of the top teams in the league and their defense was a major factor in their success.  It wasn’t Rivers lighting up the league carrying them.  

[DontEverGiveUp]

2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

The article is comparing this one Rivers season to career numbers for Luck & Manning.  Why not compare the best season from each to this season for Rivers?  Don’t include their down years when they were carrying the worst teams in the league (both were the #1 overall pick) to Rivers (a seasoned veteran) joining a team built to win now.

 

Also, you make it seem like Manning & Luck won every game 38 to 37 because their defenses couldn’t stop anybody and they always had to do everything in order to win.  That’s just not true.  Peyton had Edge & Tony Dungy to lean on and provide some balance. Luck probably played hero ball the most because he never had a running back or OLine or a coach like Dungy or Reich to really stress better ball control.

And Rivers played with LT, one of the greatest running backs of all time & Antonio Gates (another all time great).  This isn’t his first time not having to play hero ball.  Just two years ago the Chargers were one of the top teams in the league and their defense was a major factor in their success.  It wasn’t Rivers lighting up the league carrying them.  

Your last paragraph is wrong, or misleading at best.

 

The Chargers only had a full team around Rivers his first 3 seasons, 2006-2008.  And LT started his decline in 2008.

 

In 2018, the Chargers defense was average.  They were only viewed as good because they went from bottom of the league to middle of the pack.  It was actually Rivers and the offense that led the way for them that year (Rivers was 3rd choice for MVP), so you are wrong about that.  Rivers did play hero ball several times that year and it happened to work out...see the PIT and KC comeback wins.

[DontEverGiveUp]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

I find the article pretty dumb.   They use the stats for this year for Rivers and compare them to Manning and Luck's career numbers.   At 10-4, the Colts are having a very good season but they may not even make the playoffs.   Manning made the playoffs in 9 consecutive seasons and Luck for 3.  

This article should be titled something like:

This solid team is what Rivers needed.

The article was written to get attention, no doubt.  Probably written by someone who is annoyed that Rivers' good play is being overlooked by the people who said he was done 6 months ago.

 

Career-wise though, Rivers has been every bit as good as Luck based on the numbers, even if they have a different style.  You can argue that Luck never reached his prime, but we will never know.

 

This season has worked out well so far for both Rivers and the Colts.  They both needed each other IMO.  It's nice to see Rivers escape the dumpster fire that is the Chargers...notice they upgraded OL, WR, DL, LB, and DB, and also got a shiny new QB who is balling out, yet they will likely finish with the same record as last year.

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

The article was written to get attention, no doubt.  Probably written by someone who is annoyed that Rivers' good play is being overlooked by the people who said he was done 6 months ago.

 

Career-wise though, Rivers has been every bit as good as Luck based on the numbers, even if they have a different style.  You can argue that Luck never reached his prime, but we will never know.

 

This season has worked out well so far for both Rivers and the Colts.  They both needed each other IMO.  It's nice to see Rivers escape the dumpster fire that is the Chargers...notice they upgraded OL, WR, DL, LB, and DB, and also got a shiny new QB who is balling out, yet they will likely finish with the same record as last year.

Rivers is having a very good season.  I was happy when they signed him (one of the few I think).  However, his season is not "outshining Manning and Luck".  You are correct, click bait title.  

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

At 10-4, the Colts are having a very good season but they may not even make the playoffs.   Manning made the playoffs in 9 consecutive seasons and Luck for 3.  

They also could finish 12-4, which is better than anything Luck ever did here. Manning cruised through an easy South for years here. 12-4 was the standard. 
 

this playoffs will be an anomaly for the afc with an additional spot and so many teams winning 10 +

[Fluke_33]

22 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

The article is comparing this one Rivers season to career numbers for Luck & Manning.  Why not compare the best season from each to this season for Rivers?  Don’t include their down years when they were carrying the worst teams in the league (both were the #1 overall pick) to Rivers (a seasoned veteran) joining a team built to win now.

 

Also, you make it seem like Manning & Luck won every game 38 to 37 because their defenses couldn’t stop anybody and they always had to do everything in order to win.  That’s just not true.  Peyton had Edge & Tony Dungy to lean on and provide some balance. Luck probably played hero ball the most because he never had a running back or OLine or a coach like Dungy or Reich to really stress better ball control.

And Rivers played with LT, one of the greatest running backs of all time & Antonio Gates (another all time great).  This isn’t his first time not having to play hero ball.  Just two years ago the Chargers were one of the top teams in the league and their defense was a major factor in their success.  It wasn’t Rivers lighting up the league carrying them.  

Comparing mannings best season is arguably the best of any qb ever!  i think his two best seasons my be the two best by any qb but i'd have to look back again.  I know brady's may fit inbetween the two. 

 

[Smoke317]

20 minutes ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

Your last paragraph is wrong, or misleading at best.

 

The Chargers only had a full team around Rivers his first 3 seasons, 2006-2008.  And LT started his decline in 2008.

 

In 2018, the Chargers defense was average.  They were only viewed as good because they went from bottom of the league to middle of the pack.  It was actually Rivers and the offense that led the way for them that year (Rivers was 3rd choice for MVP), so you are wrong about that.  Rivers did play hero ball several times that year and it happened to work out...see the PIT and KC comeback wins.

The fact that Rivers had a full team around him from 2006-2008 proves my point that this isn’t the first time he’s had a team around him.  Also in 2018 the Chargers were rated in the top 10 vs the run and the pass on defense and also td’s allowed too.  Just like the offense.  Rivers was ranked anywhere from 5th to 10th in most of the important QB stats. And the overall offense was rated about the same.  So both were top 10 units and both contributed to the teams success. IMO. 

[Myles]

28 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

They also could finish 12-4, which is better than anything Luck ever did here. Manning cruised through an easy South for years here. 12-4 was the standard. 
 

this playoffs will be an anomaly for the afc with an additional spot and so many teams winning 10 +

You think Rivers season this year outshines Manning?

[NannyMcafee]

When Rivers is on his game, he is a better QB than Andrew. No, not a better athlete, but you see his smarts at the line presnap adjustments havent been seen here since Peyton. Which for me personally is a sigh if relief. 

 

That pass to TY on 2nd and 20 was an audible at the LOS. An audible Andrew would have never made. 

 

Andrew may very well have won over both Jax and the Ravens, maybe even the Browns. But cone playoff time who knows. I never felt confident in Andrew in big moments. 

 

This team is also stacked to a point that Andrew never saw. So who knows? Colts could very well be 14-0 right now with Andrew at the helm. 

 

Hypotheticals are fun. But pointless. 

[DontEverGiveUp]

15 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

The fact that Rivers had a full team around him from 2006-2008 proves my point that this isn’t the first time he’s had a team around him.  Also in 2018 the Chargers were rated in the top 10 vs the run and the pass on defense and also td’s allowed too.  Just like the offense.  Rivers was ranked anywhere from 5th to 10th in most of the important QB stats. And the overall offense was rated about the same.  So both were top 10 units and both contributed to the teams success. IMO. 

Okay yeah, for the first couple of years out of his 14 years there Rivers didn't have to play hero ball (looking back, he actually did in 2008 and was the best QB that year).  So 2 out of 14 seasons.

 

For that 2018 team, the defense was 8th in points per drive, 17th in yards per drive, 17th in 3rd down %, and 19th in takeaways.  Chargers fans will also note that the defense almost always caved in crucial moments of the game.  It was the offense that led that team.  Again, look at some of the 4th quarter comebacks that year where Rivers had to put them on his back.

 

Also, it was the defense that ended their season, giving up TDs on the first 5 possessions against NE in the playoffs (primarily on dump offs to the RBs).

 

 

[DontEverGiveUp]

11 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

When Rivers is on his game, he is a better QB than Andrew. No, not a better athlete, but you see his smarts at the line presnap adjustments havent been seen here since Peyton. Which for me personally is a sigh if relief. 

 

That pass to TY on 2nd and 20 was an audible at the LOS. An audible Andrew would have never made. 

 

Andrew may very well have won over both Jax and the Ravens, maybe even the Browns. But cone playoff time who knows. I never felt confident in Andrew in big moments. 

 

This team is also stacked to a point that Andrew never saw. So who knows? Colts could very well be 14-0 right now with Andrew at the helm. 

 

Hypotheticals are fun. But pointless. 

IDK about your point on Andrew making that audible last game, but I'm also not certain he would have won the JAX game either.  Remember, our defense let Minshew go 19/20 and 3 TDs.  The Ravens game also swung on the fumble-6 by JT.

 

As for playoffs, I do know that Andrew threw more INTs than TDs, but I didn't watch those games as closely as all of you so I can only speak to the stats.

[Fluke_33]

22 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

When Rivers is on his game, he is a better QB than Andrew. No, not a better athlete, but you see his smarts at the line presnap adjustments havent been seen here since Peyton. Which for me personally is a sigh if relief. 

 

I like rivers but when AL is on his game he is in the upper echelon of all qbs.   I like the gunslinger types though like Favre.

 

Its all opinion and preference.   

[NannyMcafee]

11 minutes ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

IDK about your point on Andrew making that audible last game, but I'm also not certain he would have won the JAX game either.  Remember, our defense let Minshew go 19/20 and 3 TDs.  The Ravens game also swung on the fumble-6 by JT.

 

As for playoffs, I do know that Andrew threw more INTs than TDs, but I didn't watch those games as closely as all of you so I can only speak to the stats.

 

Andrew wasn't known for his at the line prowess. It was his ability to extend plays and find the open man. He was a really good and elite QB. .

 

I dont see him changing the play there, or changing from or to a run play. He did what he was told and for the most part did it well because he was such a good athlete. Imo. 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

31 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

When Rivers is on his game, he is a better QB than Andrew. No, not a better athlete, but you see his smarts at the line presnap adjustments havent been seen here since Peyton. Which for me personally is a sigh if relief. 

 

That pass to TY on 2nd and 20 was an audible at the LOS. An audible Andrew would have never made. 

 

Andrew may very well have won over both Jax and the Ravens, maybe even the Browns. But cone playoff time who knows. I never felt confident in Andrew in big moments. 

 

This team is also stacked to a point that Andrew never saw. So who knows? Colts could very well be 14-0 right now with Andrew at the helm. 

 

Hypotheticals are fun. But pointless. 

Andrew at his best which was 2012-2014 and Rivers at his best which has been several different years, I would take Andrew but by a hair. It is close. Rivers is a Hall of Famer IMO (has the stats) and it is his longevity that helps the matter. He is better than Andrew at changing plays at the line and more durable but Andrew was the better athlete and had an incredible knack of coming from way behind. We were down 38-10 in the 3rd Qtr vs the Chiefs in the 2013 playoffs and came back and won. That is just unreal.

 

I happy with Rivers though, he reminds me of Peyton in a lot of ways because he is smart and can read defenses really well.

[Stephen]

43 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

When Rivers is on his game, he is a better QB than Andrew. No, not a better athlete, but you see his smarts at the line presnap adjustments havent been seen here since Peyton. Which for me personally is a sigh if relief. 

 

That pass to TY on 2nd and 20 was an audible at the LOS. An audible Andrew would have never made. 

 

Andrew may very well have won over both Jax and the Ravens, maybe even the Browns. But cone playoff time who knows. I never felt confident in Andrew in big moments. 

 

This team is also stacked to a point that Andrew never saw. So who knows? Colts could very well be 14-0 right now with Andrew at the helm. 

 

Hypotheticals are fun. But pointless. 

Considering  Luck's  chemistry with  hilton he would have made those throws earlier  in the game

[NannyMcafee]

15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Andrew at his best which was 2012-2014 and Rivers at his best which has been several different years, I would take Andrew but by a hair. It is close. Rivers is a Hall of Famer IMO (has the stats) and it is his longevity that helps the matter. He is better than Andrew at changing plays at the line and more durable but Andrew was the better athlete and had an incredible knack of coming from way behind. We were down 38-10 in the 3rd Qtr vs the Chiefs in the 2013 playoffs and came back and won. That is just unreal.

 

I happy with Rivers though, he reminds me of Peyton in a lot of ways because he is smart and can read defenses really well.

 

My view might be a bit skewed because of how good Peyton was at reading defenses... and im not sure if I'd pick Andrew simply because rivers is so dang durable. Ain't no way Andrew plays on an MCL or was it an ACL injury? Or a broken jaw (peyton)... but im not so sure extending plays is better than reading defenses simply because you hardly ever need to extend plays when you're reading a defense and making adjustments. You adjust your players open so to speak. 

 

At this point in rivers career im taking Andrew simply for futures sake. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

My view might be a bit skewed because of how good Peyton was at reading defenses... and im not sure if I'd pick Andrew simply because rivers is so dang durable. Ain't no way Andrew plays on an MCL or was it an ACL injury? Or a broken jaw (peyton)... but im not so sure extending plays is better than reading defenses simply because you hardly ever need to extend plays when you're reading a defense and making adjustments. You adjust your players open so to speak. 

 

At this point in rivers career im taking Andrew simply for futures sake. 

Rivers has definitely not been disappointing this year. Everything I hoped for anyway, that is if we make the playoffs lol. I think we will.

[DontEverGiveUp]

38 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Considering  Luck's  chemistry with  hilton he would have made those throws earlier  in the game.

Maybe?

 

It's not like Rivers was missing throws.  He was 22/28 with a couple throw aways and a drop.  He hit the deep one to TY when it was needed.

[chad72]

10 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

This is the first time in Rivers' career (and the first time in a while I can remember as a Colts fan) where the QB probably doesn't have to make dumb mistakes or force throws, knowing they can have some trust in the D if the O has to punt (i.e., a punt to win a field position battle is better than risking a throw on 3rd down knowing your D is going to get scored on with a long or short field).  

 

Not true. He had some pretty loaded Chargers teams on defense that gave Brady all he could handle in the playoffs, just like they did vs the Peyton led Colts. Just that those Chargers teams underachieved on the kicking front (Kaeding several times) or mental mistakes (fumbling an interception, VJax kicking ref's flag on the field etc.) that cost them critical playoff games. 

 

Maybe in the last 5 years, I can agree with that he felt like he had to carry the team more while with the Chargers.

[DontEverGiveUp]

50 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Not true. He had some pretty loaded Chargers teams on defense that gave Brady all he could handle in the playoffs, just like they did vs the Peyton led Colts. Just that those Chargers teams underachieved on the kicking front (Kaeding several times) or mental mistakes (fumbling an interception, VJax kicking ref's flag on the field etc.) that cost them critical playoff games. 

 

Maybe in the last 5 years, I can agree with that he felt like he had to carry the team more while with the Chargers.

The last 10 years actually, so the vast majority of his career.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

The last 10 years actually, so the vast majority of his career.

I look at 2 Chargers teams that really had a good shot at the SB being 2006 and 2009. In 2007, LT and Rivers both were injured and they were playing the undefeated Pats in the AFC Title game so I figured they would lose that game.

[coltsblue1844]

5 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

Comparing mannings best season is arguably the best of any qb ever!  i think his two best seasons my be the two best by any qb but i'd have to look back again.  I know brady's may fit inbetween the two. 

 

3 of his top 4 seasons were in Denver, also (sadly enough, but true).  He was first team ALL PRO in 2 of the 4 years, there... had 3 of his highest yardage seasons, 3 of his lowest INT seasons, his highest TD season etc

[Stephen]

3 hours ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

Maybe?

 

It's not like Rivers was missing throws.  He was 22/28 with a couple throw aways and a drop.  He hit the deep one to TY when it was needed.

Yea, but we need  to get in the endzone  at a higher rate to beat the best teams. Rivers may complete 70 plus percent  of passes and 2 tds with under 300 yards passing.  Luck would have 377 yards 4tds and about 65 percent completion 

[crazycolt1]

17 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Yea, but we need  to get in the endzone  at a higher rate to beat the best teams. Rivers may complete 70 plus percent  of passes and 2 tds with under 300 yards passing.  Luck would have 377 yards 4tds and about 65 percent completion 

Yeah Luck may have had 377 yds and 4 tds but it would have been needed because the defense would have given up 400 yds and 3 tds and a couple of tds on the ground. 

[CurBeatElite]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

The article is comparing this one Rivers season to career numbers for Luck & Manning.  Why not compare the best season from each to this season for Rivers?  Don’t include their down years when they were carrying the worst teams in the league (both were the #1 overall pick) to Rivers (a seasoned veteran) joining a team built to win now.

 

Also, you make it seem like Manning & Luck won every game 38 to 37 because their defenses couldn’t stop anybody and they always had to do everything in order to win.  That’s just not true.  Peyton had Edge & Tony Dungy to lean on and provide some balance. Luck probably played hero ball the most because he never had a running back or OLine or a coach like Dungy or Reich to really stress better ball control.

And Rivers played with LT, one of the greatest running backs of all time & Antonio Gates (another all time great).  This isn’t his first time not having to play hero ball.  Just two years ago the Chargers were one of the top teams in the league and their defense was a major factor in their success.  It wasn’t Rivers lighting up the league carrying them.  

 

I do?  I suggest every game Manning and Luck won was 38-37? Interesting, that's an odd score to pick (don't see 37 point games very often).  

 

Peyton had Edge for less than 50% of his career.  Very rare did he have a good all around defense.  Usually his defenses were only good if they were playing with leads and could focus primarily on rushing the passer (e.g., Freeney is one of the worst run-stopping DEs I have ever seen in my life, though he'll probably make it to the HOF due to his pass-rush acumen).  If Peyton didn't score early and often, our defense was doomed most of the time when he was in Indy.  That's the facts and Peyton (and Luck) did throw quite a bit of risky interceptions, and while I can't prove it -- from the eye test, it sure seemed like they had little faith in their respective defenses when they made some of them.  In other words, 'the D is going to give up a score regardless of if I throw a pick or if we punt, so I may as well take a risk and keep the ball or just give the opponent better field position so I can get the ball back quicker.'

 

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

They also could finish 12-4, which is better than anything Luck ever did here. Manning cruised through an easy South for years here. 12-4 was the standard. 
 

this playoffs will be an anomaly for the afc with an additional spot and so many teams winning 10 +

 

Manning did have seasons of 14-2 and 13-3 (both 2x).  And to his credit, Luck took a 2-14 team which got us the first pick to an 11-5 team as a rookie.  

 

I agree with others that the article I posted is click-baity in nature and kind of bogus comparing Peyton and Luck career averages to Rivers' single season... but still, Rivers is having an impressive year.  

13 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Considering  Luck's  chemistry with  hilton he would have made those throws earlier  in the game

 

TY has come on as of late, but he definitely seemed like a shadow of his former self earlier in the year.  Not sure if it was nagging injury, him being highlighted by defenses with no true #2 threat (maybe Pittman's emergence is helping TY as of late?), or just lack of chemistry with Rivers given such a weird off season.  

 

4 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

My view might be a bit skewed because of how good Peyton was at reading defenses... and im not sure if I'd pick Andrew simply because rivers is so dang durable. Ain't no way Andrew plays on an MCL or was it an ACL injury? Or a broken jaw (peyton)... but im not so sure extending plays is better than reading defenses simply because you hardly ever need to extend plays when you're reading a defense and making adjustments. You adjust your players open so to speak. 

 

At this point in rivers career im taking Andrew simply for futures sake. 

 

Andrew, IMO, is a lot tougher than people gave him credit for.  He finished a game with a lacerated kidney and we have no idea how much pain he was in with multiple leg and shoulder injuries which he played through but dealt with major surgeries and rehabs in the off-season.  

[CurBeatElite]

5 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Not true. He had some pretty loaded Chargers teams on defense that gave Brady all he could handle in the playoffs, just like they did vs the Peyton led Colts. Just that those Chargers teams underachieved on the kicking front (Kaeding several times) or mental mistakes (fumbling an interception, VJax kicking ref's flag on the field etc.) that cost them critical playoff games. 

 

Maybe in the last 5 years, I can agree with that he felt like he had to carry the team more while with the Chargers.

 

Maybe I should have said in Rivers' 'recent' career.. we're talking 12-15 years since he's had protection like this and a D like this.

[PrideOfAthens17]

Just to clear up one inaccurate item from the article. This is Philip's 15th year as a starter out of his 17 years in the league. He backed up Brees his first two years.
 

Now, back to the debate .

[DontEverGiveUp]

2 hours ago, Stephen said:

Yea, but we need  to get in the endzone  at a higher rate to beat the best teams. Rivers may complete 70 plus percent  of passes and 2 tds with under 300 yards passing.  Luck would have 377 yards 4tds and about 65 percent completion 

You realize Rivers and Luck have the exact same career TD%, right?

 

You're really grasping at straws here to discredit Rivers.  And you have no idea what Luck would have done in the game last weekend.  None of us do, because he gave up and quit.  Who knows, maybe he would have lost 6-0 like he did against the Jags in his final year.

[DontEverGiveUp]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yeah Luck may have had 377 yds and 4 tds but it would have been needed because the defense would have given up 400 yds and 3 tds and a couple of tds on the ground. 

He also may have had 3 INTs for all we know.  It's not like he never did that from time to time.

[coming on strong]

9 hours ago, Shepman said:

AFC South was also horrible then and Jax remains the same.

titans were good 08 they were 9-0 . jax was good with fred taylor

[coming on strong]

17 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

Philip Rivers' amazing season outshining Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck (horseshoeheroes.com) https://horseshoeheroes.com/2020/12/21/colts-philip-rivers-vs-peyton-manning-andrew-luck/?a_aid=44511&fbclid=IwAR1gFfAFxSzKC4qYLEgdFmo36SgpUJDEhLPq6ZyRc3_EbVzc0FFi5q11aF4

 

Pretty darn impressive.  Rivers made a few very dumb mistakes earlier this year, but has really cut them down as of late.  I can't help but wonder if that's in part due to him starting to trust his defense a little bit, in part of him being shocked that he isn't getting sacked 4+ times per game, etc.   I always felt a lot of Luck and Manning mistakes came from them thinking they literally had to carry the team on their shoulders, whereas, I think Ballard had a goal (he expressed it directly very early) to want to have a team where the QB had to play good/great football, but not do everything to win.  This is the first time in Rivers' career (and the first time in a while I can remember as a Colts fan) where the QB probably doesn't have to make dumb mistakes or force throws, knowing they can have some trust in the D if the O has to punt (i.e., a punt to win a field position battle is better than risking a throw on 3rd down knowing your D is going to get scored on with a long or short field).  

rivers has been solid this year but to suggest this season by rivers outshines any season of manning or luck is crazy .  when did rivers throw 55 touchdowns and 5,000 yards with a broken neck .  manning has 5 mvps and 14 playoff wins to rivers 4 playoff wins manning retired at 39 and missed one full season and half a season in 2015 .   mannings number are better .

[John Waylon]

Oh, hello there mr. Straw Man. 
 

I could build a website and publish an article in under an hour about how I completed more passes today than Rivers did. And it wouldn’t mean I am the next great NFL QB, it just means he didn’t practice today, and I threw a pair of socks to my daughter. 
 

Context is king. 

[Colt.45]

8 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

When Rivers is on his game, he is a better QB than Andrew. No, not a better athlete, but you see his smarts at the line presnap adjustments havent been seen here since Peyton. Which for me personally is a sigh if relief. 

 

That pass to TY on 2nd and 20 was an audible at the LOS. An audible Andrew would have never made. 

 

Andrew may very well have won over both Jax and the Ravens, maybe even the Browns. But cone playoff time who knows. I never felt confident in Andrew in big moments. 

 

This team is also stacked to a point that Andrew never saw. So who knows? Colts could very well be 14-0 right now with Andrew at the helm. 

 

Hypotheticals are fun. But pointless. 

Luck never audibled? Interesting. That is a statement contrary to everything said about him by literally everyone else (in the media, in football coaching, players, his coaches, etc). Not sure where you got that from.

 

You never felt confident in Luck in big moments> That....that is quite some hubris. You could call Luck overconfident, crazy, gunslinger etc but saying he never stood up in big moments is just....weird. The guy was a walking embodiment of big plays in big games, playoffs or otherwise. The games he lost in the playoffs, you couldn't pin all on him. 

 

Also, calm down till you see Rivers in the playoffs. In the games v good defenses this season, he has dipped in performance.

[NannyMcafee]

5 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Luck never audibled? Interesting. That is a statement contrary to everything said about him by literally everyone else (in the media, in football coaching, players, his coaches, etc). Not sure where you got that from.

 

You never felt confident in Luck in big moments> That....that is quite some hubris. You could call Luck overconfident, crazy, gunslinger etc but saying he never stood up in big moments is just....weird. The guy was a walking embodiment of big plays in big games, playoffs or otherwise. The games he lost in the playoffs, you couldn't pin all on him. 

 

Also, calm down till you see Rivers in the playoffs. In the games v good defenses this season, he has dipped in performance.

 

It is TBD on rivers in the playoffs. I just remember seeing a lack of killer instinct in the guy. Easily my opinion only and im okay with that. 

[Colt.45]

2 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

It is TBD on rivers in the playoffs. I just remember seeing a lack of killer instinct in the guy. Easily my opinion only and im okay with that. 

 

I'll try to find the videos and tweets but I remember Richard Sherman calling Luck the biggest killer he'd seen (or an assassin or something like that). This was when Sherman was with Wilson in Seattle.

 

I remember Honey Badger tweeting about Luck and calling him cold blooded, and a bunch of other star players hopped on the tweet and all of them backed that. It's always surreal when you hear players speaking like that of a fellow pro.

 

However, your opinion of course and you're well entitled to it.

 

I hope Rivers surpasses anything Luck ever did in the playoffs. This Sunday is a big test, another monster defense on the horizon, lets see if Rivers shreds them. He got bossed by Cleveland, and Chicago largely held the Colts offense (though I thought Rivers was okay).

[NannyMcafee]

13 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

I'll try to find the videos and tweets but I remember Richard Sherman calling Luck the biggest killer he'd seen (or an assassin or something like that). This was when Sherman was with Wilson in Seattle.

 

I remember Honey Badger tweeting about Luck and calling him cold blooded, and a bunch of other star players hopped on the tweet and all of them backed that. It's always surreal when you hear players speaking like that of a fellow pro.

 

However, your opinion of course and you're well entitled to it.

 

I hope Rivers surpasses anything Luck ever did in the playoffs. This Sunday is a big test, another monster defense on the horizon, lets see if Rivers shreds them. He got bossed by Cleveland, and Chicago largely held the Colts offense (though I thought Rivers was okay).

 

I could easily be misinformed. And those Colts teams were far from stacked which could be where my confusion lies. 

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

You realize Rivers and Luck have the exact same career TD%, right?

 

You're really grasping at straws here to discredit Rivers.  And you have no idea what Luck would have done in the game last weekend.  None of us do, because he gave up and quit.  Who knows, maybe he would have lost 6-0 like he did against the Jags in his final year.

No I'm saying that I'm not sure the current rivers could have a 4 or 5 td game with 377 yards and 0 ints.  That's cthectype of game allen or Mahomes  may havevin the playoffs  if we make it there.