It Should Not Take 3 Plus Years To Win Afc Title.

[bahhummbug]

O.K first topic Ive started so give me honest opinions,analysis.Freeney must go,either as a trade or dropped.First my grammar is horrible sry.Were talking about the AFC South.We beat Tenn and Houston last year with who as QB?Can we not all agree Luck is far far better than any QB that played for us last year.We can win our Div next year with all the cap money we will have.But,we can be far more competitive this year without Freeney.14 mill can buy alot when teams start dropping players in cuts to 53.Does not make any sense to me to keep Freeney when 1 man cannot fill all your needs.Iam a huge Freeney fan he has done great things for us over the years but not worth the risk. Sign 8 or more players to 1 year contracts to fill needs now to be competitive this year.62 mill in cap space next year can even roll more into it with cutting Freeney,and with extra comp picks next year for FAs we lost we will have all needs met and win the AFC Title i have No doubts that we can beat Houston,Tenn and Jax none.

[Coltman51]

Believe we still get hit for 14 million of Freeneys 19 million if he is cut. So not a bit a savings or money freeing as it would appear. Can't argue against his release though I hope he sticks around for the year

[bahhummbug]

No we would lose only the 5 mill bonus the 14 would not go against cap correct

[FireJimCaldwell]

19,035,000 2012 Cap hit

14,035,000 2012 Base Salary

5,000,000 Unamortized portion of previous signing bonus.

Trading or cutting Freeney clears up 14 million in cap space.

[UndecidedFrog]

Believe we still get hit for 14 million of Freeneys 19 million if he is cut. So not a bit a savings or money freeing as it would appear. Can't argue against his release though I hope he sticks around for the year

That's not true.

If you cut Freeney, the dead cap space will be $5MM to the 2012 cap, nothing thereafter.

You would save $14.035 MM to the 2012 cap if you cut him.

[Coltman51]

Thanks for clearin it up, knew there was some savings, maybe best for team to let him go, but would love to see what he does with the one year he has left here, can't rebuild it all in one year

[FireJimCaldwell]

Thanks for clearin it up, knew there was some savings, maybe best for team to let him go, but would love to see what he does with the one year he has left here, can't rebuild it all in one year

Your're welcome.

The money could be spent elsewhere, but the powers to be might be treating this as very expensive tryout in a new scheme.

[bahhummbug]

That's not true.

If you cut Freeney, the dead cap space will be $5MM to the 2012 cap, nothing thereafter.

You would save $14.035 MM to the 2012 cap if you cut him.

Thanks Frog i was pretty sure we would save 14 mill i know u know the cap enjoy reading your posts.With 14 mill get vets we need this year so our draftees can develop makes more sense to me than 1 man.

[UndecidedFrog]

Thanks Frog i was pretty sure we would save 14 mill i know u know the cap enjoy reading your posts.With 14 mill get vets we need this year so our draftees can develop makes more sense to me than 1 man.

Yes, I think the $14 million could go a long way to pay for more players we need to fill in some holes.

I fully expect that the team will come to some arrangement with Freeney, to either extend his contract, restructuring it while doing so, or cutting him or trading him.

Thanks for the support and reading what many think is a rather dry topic in The Cap thread.

[Gavin]

Your're welcome.

The money could be spent elsewhere, but the powers to be might be treating this as very expensive tryout in a new scheme.

thats my concern what if that try out fails and then he becomes a free agent next year we would have taken the hit for a guy that wouldnt be able to play in our new scheme even if he could play in it hes a free agent at the end of the year and 33

[FireJimCaldwell]

thats my concern what if that try out fails and then he becomes a free agent next year we would have taken the hit for a guy that wouldnt be able to play in our new scheme even if he could play in it hes a free agent at the end of the year and 33

That is the gamble. They either let the contract ride out, extend him and find out he might be the best fit to the new scheme, or try to move him for something now, or flat out release him.

[MSColtsFan]

I do think the Colts picked a perfect time to implode. If they were going to stink, now isn't a horrible time for sure. I don't know if I'd rather be in any other division than the AFC South right now. Titans and Jags are at crossroads at QB too, and the Texans lost a lot of talent in FA. Clearly they remain the team to beat, but they got hammered in free agency.

Freeney... ugh.... I don't think they cut him. If they had intended to use that money to go after the best FA's, that time is gone. So the issue I have now is do two marginal FA's mean more than Freeney? I don't know. I'm leaning no. But if cutting Freeney turned into say Franklin at NT and Hawthorne at ILB maybe. The list of FA's is so short and quesitonable talent-wise now.... Other than Franklin, I'm not sure I love any of them. And I only really like Franklin because the Colts don't have a NT. And I wouldn't cut Freeney for Franklin alone. I'd rather keep Freeney and that insane amount of money.

[chad72]

Hey, our rookie QB might be the second best QB in the AFC South when the year is done .

[Gavin]

Hey, our rookie QB might be the second best QB in the AFC South when the year is done .

whos the first?

[BProland85]

I could really see us being pretty competitive in the 2013 season because we will have around 50 million in cap space to get any free agent we want, plus we will most likely have top 10 picks again next year in the draft to add playmakers on both the offense and defense.

Luck will be one year better, and the defense will be improved so I could see us winning the AFC South as early as 2013.

[Gavin]

Id rather cut freeny so that way even if their is nothing in free agency we still have that option and dont have a big cap hit hangin over our heads, hes been great for us but you would think he knows something about the colts financial situation and would offer to restructure or something then again their is the flip side hes 32 will be 33 at end of this season and a free agent next year anyway, always liked freeny and his effort but its business

[MSColtsFan]

Id rather cut freeny so that way even if their is nothing in free agency we still have that option and dont have a big cap hit hangin over our heads, hes been great for us but you would think he knows something about the colts financial situation and would offer to restructure or something then again their is the flip side hes 32 will be 33 at end of this season and a free agent next year anyway, always liked freeny and his effort but its business

I'm confused by your post. If the Colts cut him and don't spend the money on FAs, how does that benefit anyone buy Irsay? You can't take those savings with you into 2013. He's under contract, so that money is spent already (functionally). If they cut him, they better sign multiple people to play this year. Or let him play out 2012 as DE or OLB. Having no Freeney or multiple FAs makes no sense to me.

[UndecidedFrog]

I'm confused by your post. If the Colts cut him and don't spend the money on FAs, how does that benefit anyone buy Irsay? You can't take those savings with you into 2013. He's under contract, so that money is spent already (functionally). If they cut him, they better sign multiple people to play this year. Or let him play out 2012 as DE or OLB. Having no Freeney or multiple FAs makes no sense to me.

Actually, you can take it with you to 2013, if you file the correct paperwork in time. Teams routinely carryover unused capspace in previous year to the new year. In fact, this year (2012), we have $2.5MM additional cap space due to the carryover from 2011 unused cap space.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Actually, you can take it with you to 2013, if you file the correct paperwork in time. Teams routinely carryover unused capspace in previous year to the new year. In fact, this year (2012), we have $2.5MM additional cap space due to the carryover from 2011 unused cap space.

Actually the 2011/12 season was the first year there was a "Carry over". It was in the 2011 cba and wasn't in the previous one.

[bahhummbug]

I'm confused by your post. If the Colts cut him and don't spend the money on FAs, how does that benefit anyone buy Irsay? You can't take those savings with you into 2013. He's under contract, so that money is spent already (functionally). If they cut him, they better sign multiple people to play this year. Or let him play out 2012 as DE or OLB. Having no Freeney or multiple FAs makes no sense to me.

You can carry over so much too the next years cap i do not have the exact amount but undecided or firejim could probably let us know.And i believe Gavin was saying atleast we would have the option to sign others if oppurtunity was there.At current cap hit though we cannot sign anyone else minus drafts.

[MSColtsFan]

Actually, you can take it with you to 2013, if you file the correct paperwork in time. Teams routinely carryover unused capspace in previous year to the new year. In fact, this year (2012), we have $2.5MM additional cap space due to the carryover from 2011 unused cap space.

Right, but I don't think it would be all 14 million. It is a portion of the unused, as I recall. Look at me talking cap with the master... you know better than I do. My recollection is the biggest bang for the buck would be this year, and if they aren't going to use it, then why cut him? I don't think there is a better defensive player left in FA this year.

[bahhummbug]

wow i was just typing about both firejim and undecided looked back and both had replied ty both.

[UndecidedFrog]

Right, but I don't think it would be all 14 million. It is a portion of the unused, as I recall. Look at me talking cap with the master... you know better than I do. My recollection is the biggest bang for the buck would be this year, and if they aren't going to use it, then why cut him? I don't think there is a better defensive player left in FA this year.

We could sure use the cap space this year, as we have holes to fill, and we are already up against the cap now.

[MSColtsFan]

Actually the 2011/12 season was the first year there was a "Carry over". It was in the 2011 cba and wasn't in the previous one.

How much? I don't think it's the whole thing. And again, the bigger issue than money to me in 2012 (we have cap space in 2013) is who is he replace by? Cutting him for the sake of cutting him and carrying over a few million for 2013, plus having room in 2012 but not using it wouldn't be the path I'd see as best.

I trust all things cap related to you and Frog...

[FireJimCaldwell]

wow i was just typing about both firejim and undecided looked back and both had replied ty both.

No problem.

[MSColtsFan]

We could sure use the cap space this year, as we have holes to fill, and we are already up against the cap now.

Agreed totally, but who do they sign at this stage of FA that would be more valuable than Freeney? If they cut him along with all the other players, and made a push for a couple top tier guys, I would have understood and approved. But they can't get a RFA, and the UFA list is thin to say the least.

[FireJimCaldwell]

How much? I don't think it's the whole thing. And again, the bigger issue than money to me in 2012 (we have cap space in 2013) is who is he replace by? Cutting him for the sake of cutting him and carrying over a few million for 2013, plus having room in 2012 but not using it wouldn't be the path I'd see as best.

I trust all things cap related to you and Frog...

It depends on the space they have left.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/03/30/salary-cap-situation-for-each-team/

Gives an example of every team for this season. It's a month old at this point but the carry over part won't change.

Jacksonville carried over 31 million.

[UndecidedFrog]

Actually the 2011/12 season was the first year there was a "Carry over". It was in the 2011 cba and wasn't in the previous one.

Thank you for that bit of information.

I congratulate you on your new screenname, HJC with the Ravens' T-shirt. I trust you have your hands full with Flacco and Taylor.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Thank you for that bit of information.

I congratulate you on your new screenname, HJC with the Ravens' T-shirt. I trust you have your hands full with Flacco and Taylor.

Hopefully I don't get stuck with it for 30 days..

[UndecidedFrog]

Agreed totally, but who do they sign at this stage of FA that would be more valuable than Freeney? If they cut him along with all the other players, and made a push for a couple top tier guys, I would have understood and approved. But they can't get a RFA, and the UFA list is thin to say the least.

Typically, free agency progresses in waves.

I expect additional waves of new FAs joining the current list of available FAs after the draft, and at specific points after training camp.

[bahhummbug]

It depends on the space they have left.

http://blogs.nfl.com...-for-each-team/

Gives an example of every team for this season. It's a month old at this point but the carry over part won't change.

Jacksonville carried over 31 million.

TY Firejim just makes more and more sense to let Freeney go.With carryover say of even 8 mill with 2 or 4 other signings i believe we would have 70 mill in cap room next year.But alot of FAs will be lost also.

[MSColtsFan]

It depends on the space they have left.

http://blogs.nfl.com...-for-each-team/

Gives an example of every team for this season. It's a month old at this point but the carry over part won't change.

Jacksonville carried over 31 million.

Holy s.... that's some serious carry over. Wow. I have to figure out what portion of that is unused cap space verses other things. I know Tampa and the Bengals (?) were hammered for under-spending last year, as the Pokes and Skins lost room this year for overspending in the uncapped year.

Hey, thanks for finding that and posting.

So now the quesiton to me is, is not having Freeney this year and maybe not signing anyone else worth carrying over whatever the number would be next year. Something like another 10-14 million, or whatever the number would be. I still think I'd rather have Freeney on the field in 2012....

[deedub75]

Actually, you can take it with you to 2013, if you file the correct paperwork in time. Teams routinely carryover unused capspace in previous year to the new year. In fact, this year (2012), we have $2.5MM additional cap space due to the carryover from 2011 unused cap space.

We also have $1.6M in additional cap space thanks to the Cowboys and Redskins.

[MSColtsFan]

Typically, free agency progresses in waves.

I expect additional waves of new FAs joining the current list of available FAs after the draft, and at specific points after training camp.

You're right of course, we're a long way away from June, so the list will be fluid. And they have zero room for anything other than draft picks. I get all that, and understand the value of having the room now. I also know replacing Freeney, even keeping him at DE in 2012, isn't going to be easy, whenever he goes. And imagine if he is really good at OLB. You know how athletes tend to perform in contract years....

[FireJimCaldwell]

We also have $1.6M in additional cap space thanks to the Cowboys and Redskins.

I'm still waiting for clarification from the league about that. I get the feeling that the 1.6 you are speaking of was what pushed the cap to 120.6.

[UndecidedFrog]

So now the quesiton to me is, is not having Freeney this year and maybe not signing anyone else worth carrying over whatever the number would be next year. Something like another 10-14 million, or whatever the number would be. I still think I'd rather have Freeney on the field in 2012....

Your question is a good one.

It is up to Grigson and Pagano to determine the value (worth) of having Freeney in the hybrid 3-4 defense they envision. I see several scenarios:

1) Is it worth $14MM in cap space to see how he works out (experiment) and then face the risk if the team can extend his contract later after we find out that he is

1a) awful in that defensive set, in which case we just let the contract expire

1b) fantastic in that defensive set, and have to negotiate an expensive new contract with him

1c) mediocre in that defensive set, in which case a hard decision will need to be made.

2) Is it worth $14MM in cap space and extend his contract now, and see how he works out (experiment) and then face the risk after we find out that he is

2a) awful in that defensive set, in which case we need to trade him and his extended contract

2b) fantastic in that defensive set, and sit pretty.

2c) mediocre in that defensive set, in which case a hard decision will need to be made.

3) Trade him if any viable offer appears

4) Cut him

I am leaning towards option 2.

[rockywoj]

8 mediocre journeyman players < game changing impact premier pass rusher.

I don't care how much cap space you free up if you dump him, the Colts defense will be weaker without Freeney.

I say honor the contract you gave him and if the year shows he is a fit, you keep him beyond, but if he proves to not be a scheme fit, then you are free of him after honoring the contract he has earned.

Honestly, I consider this talk of cutting a premier game changing pass rusher, in a pass happy league, as being pure lunacy.

[MSColtsFan]

Your question is a good one.

It is up to Grigson and Pagano to determine the value (worth) of having Freeney in the hybrid 3-4 defense they envision. I see several scenarios:

1) Is it worth $14MM in cap space to see how he works out (experiment) and then face the risk if the team can extend his contract later after we find out that he is

1a) awful in that defensive set, in which case we just let the contract expire

1b) fantastic in that defensive set, and have to negotiate an expensive new contract with him

1c) mediocre in that defensive set, in which case a hard decision will need to be made.

2) Is it worth $14MM in cap space and extend his contract now, and see how he works out (experiment) and then face the risk after we find out that he is

2a) awful in that defensive set, in which case we need to trade him and his extended contract

2b) fantastic in that defensive set, and sit pretty.

2c) mediocre in that defensive set, in which case a hard decision will need to be made.

3) Trade him if any viable offer appears

4) Cut him

I am leaning towards option 2.

And the shame of keeping him, extending now, or dealing with a new deal next year, is I'd bet his play in 2012 will not be indicative of how he will perform in the next three or four years. Age is the obvious issue. But to me the performance in any contract year is usually the best. I think we'll see a much better, much more motivated player in 2012. He's playing for his last contract. Not an ideal set of circumstances to work on a contract.

$19 million is an insane amount of money...

[MSColtsFan]

8 mediocre journeyman players < game changing impact premier pass rusher.

I don't care how much cap space you free up if you dump him, the Colts defense will be weaker without Freeney.

I say honor the contract you gave him and if the year shows he is a fit, you keep him beyond, but if he proves to not be a scheme fit, then you are free of him after honoring the contract he has earned.

Honestly, I consider this talk of cutting a premier game changing pass rusher, in a pass happy league, as being pure lunacy.

We just watched the best QB the Colts will ever know walk away, and money was a huge factor in that. Letting a DE go will be nothing compared to that. I think I want Freeney on the field as a Colt in 2012. But the cost is so enormous, and there is no money to do anything else. And that isn't a good place to be either. And are we getting the 19 tackle, 8.5 sack guy from last year, the guy who can't play the run and might have to hold an edge as a 3-4 DE, or are we getting the Freeney who was truly unique, dynamic, had an impact every game player? $19 million should give me more than 19 tackles in a season. Right?

[bahhummbug]

8 mediocre journeyman players < game changing impact premier pass rusher.

I don't care how much cap space you free up if you dump him, the Colts defense will be weaker without Freeney.

I say honor the contract you gave him and if the year shows he is a fit, you keep him beyond, but if he proves to not be a scheme fit, then you are free of him after honoring the contract he has earned.

Honestly, I consider this talk of cutting a premier game changing pass rusher, in a pass happy league, as being pure lunacy.

I dont have a clue as too how u think 1 aging pass rusher in a 3-4 that he cant defend the run cant fall back into coverage can honestly do on his own.No way he can make such an impact that signing other needs we have justifies another 14 mill cap hit.Im not against a restructure deal at all i like dwight thankful for all hes done but we have so many needs 1 man cannot fill them.